Should Scotland be an independent country?

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

Tiresome.

 

Have you not got some other thread you can add your usual banal pish to?

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Fancy voting for brexit whilst living in Spain.  Hope the property works for you. Something I aspire to but can only commit once the world is a more stable place 

Don’t be thinking it’s some penthouse I’m no that well off, im a tradesman   It’s a nice chilled two bed with roof terrace but shared pool and all that. Haven’t hardly been there for 3 years now with all the shite going on. 

[Lord Montpelier]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Don’t be thinking it’s some penthouse I’m no that well off, im a tradesman   It’s a nice chilled two bed with roof terrace but shared pool and all that. Haven’t hardly been there for 3 years now with all the shite going on. 

Sounds perfect . Very jealous.  Hope you get out there soon 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Tiresome.

 

Have you not got some other thread you can add your usual banal pish to?

Your tiresome with the ludicrous suggestion that Scottish and English are very different . Really . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Don’t be thinking it’s some penthouse I’m no that well off, im a tradesman   It’s a nice chilled two bed with roof terrace but shared pool and all that. Haven’t hardly been there for 3 years now with all the shite going on. 

I love that show on channel 5 “ bargain loving Brit’s in the sun “.  It’s a great laugh . Are you on it. ? 😂😂

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I love that show on channel 5 “ bargain loving Brit’s in the sun “.  It’s a great laugh . Are you on it. ? 😂😂

No lol but place in the sun or whatever it’s called was in my neck of the woods recently. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

No lol but place in the sun or whatever it’s called was in my neck of the woods recently. 

My pals used to live in a village in the Sierra Nevada mountains . It was lovely place . And goths opposite end of the scale are my friends just outside Beni ! 
 

Yea that programme has loads of “ ex pats “ on those bizarre camp sites . It follows some of lives and other immigrants to0 . It’s an interesting watch but some of them just don’t want to mix with the Spanish which I find annoying. 

[Lord Montpelier]

20 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Your tiresome with the ludicrous suggestion that Scottish and English are very different . Really . 

I do think there are differences between us all and the 'elite'. Boris and the rest of them. I think this is what confuses the debate here. Some think those in the 'south' are all part of this. They aren't. 

 

But that's the same for the man living in Dundee as it is in Manchester, Leeds, London, Newcastle, Bristol, wherever. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I do think there are differences between us all and the 'elite'. Boris and the rest of them. I think this is what confuses the debate here. Some think those in the 'south' are all part of this. They aren't. 

 

But that's the same for the man living in Dundee as it is in Manchester, Leeds, London, Newcastle, Bristol, wherever. 

Yes in a nutshell . Most English are working class types really , not snobs and elitist types like BJ et al . 

[manaliveits105]

53 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Could’ve been 105 and his/her shit.

Still with the sneaky stalking bullying already I see - weird .

[Lord Montpelier]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes in a nutshell . Most English are working class types really , not snobs and elitist types like BJ et al . 

As I've said , Scots born but educated in England. Back north since 2005. Don't see the blind bit of difference between my Scots pals and English mates tbh. All decent, if it came to it would fight with them in the trenches . We've much more similarities than differences

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

As I've said , Scots born but educated in England. Back north since 2005. Don't see the blind bit of difference between my Scots pals and English mates tbh. All decent, if it came to it would fight with them in the trenches . We've much more similarities than differences

That’s I what I feel . It’s an imaginary myth that’s there are significance differences between us to clearly cause division . We are no Better or worse than the English . 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

 

There are differences.

 

Differences big enough for them to be acknowledged and for governments or those seeking to be in government to realise that a one size fits all solution doesn't work as the UK is not just England. If you want to engage the people of Scotland then you need to realise that our differences are as numerous as our similarities. 

This would apply to an independent Scotland of course. Difficult to provide a one size fits all solution to the people of Edinburgh and the Highlands, or Aberdeen with its oil industry and the Borders. 
 

To be honest, it’s more of an interesting debate rather than a reason not to be independence. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

25 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Still with the sneaky stalking bullying already I see - weird .

[jack D and coke]

Do people even pay attention to what the actual discussion is? Do absolutely no reading about what Scotlands needs going forward are and what we can do? Still thinking it’s all about hating the English? 

Nobody is saying we don’t want to have anything to do with the normal English punter but there are govts who don’t do what’s best for the country up here. I understand that they don’t do what’s best for average punters in liverpool or Manchester also but they don’t have an out.
We do.
Scotland surviving on fiscal transfers for the rest of its existence? That’s the best we can do?

Brexit being just one example is damaging to Scotland. Scotland has different needs. Immigration being a big one. 
The lack of investment in our renewables. 
It’s not about disliking English people for god sake even though loads of them vote fecking Tory govts on to us  
 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Do people even pay attention to what the actual discussion is? Do absolutely no reading about what Scotlands needs going forward are and what we can do? Still thinking it’s all about hating the English? 

Nobody is saying we don’t want to have anything to do with the normal English punter but there are govts who don’t do what’s best for the country up here. I understand that they don’t do what’s best for average punters in liverpool or Manchester also but they don’t have an out.
We do.
Scotland surviving on fiscal transfers for the rest of its existence? That’s the best we can do?

Brexit being just one example is damaging to Scotland. Scotland has different needs. Immigration being a big one. 
The lack of investment in our renewables. 
It’s not about disliking English people for god sake even though loads of them vote fecking Tory govts on to us  
 

Excellent post. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

46 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

That’s I what I feel . It’s an imaginary myth that’s there are significance differences between us to clearly cause division . We are no Better or worse than the English . 

It's not a myth. It's been explained that is a perception some of us have from spending time in other parts of the UK. And it certainly wasn't intended to create division.  Nobody has suggested we are better either. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, i wish jj was my dad said:

It's not a myth. It's been explained that is a perception some of us have from spending time in other parts of the UK. And it certainly wasn't intended to create division.  Nobody has suggested we are better either. 

He just makes shit up. 

 

Best ignored. 

 

Troll. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

14 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

He just makes shit up. 

 

Best ignored. 

 

Troll. 

Certainly odd that he (rightly) calls out a bam for inflammatory comments and then makes shit up to try and cause an unnecessary argument. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

It's not a myth. It's been explained that is a perception some of us have from spending time in other parts of the UK. And it certainly wasn't intended to create division.  Nobody has suggested we are better either. 

Well my perception is different and I’ve also stayed in England and visited various cities . Also Wales and Northern Ireland . Although it’s not been said explicitly that “ we “ are better it’s implicit in that others posters rantings 

 

.it’s also implicit in much of the rhetoric from Sturgeon et al . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Certainly odd that he (rightly) calls out a bam for inflammatory comments and then makes shit up to try and cause an unnecessary argument. 

It’s not “ shit “ . I’m my view . That other Indy person has called for “ traitors “ and “ hoose jocks “ to be thrown out of an Indy Scotland or even worse hung on spikes ( he alluded to that one time ) . My rhetoric is hardly the same . TMT thinks he knows it all and his perceptions / views / opinions regarding Indy , actually most things are sacrosanct.  He’s been pulled up a few time today and doesn’t like it . 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Well my perception is different and I’ve also stayed in England and visited various cities . Also Wales and Northern Ireland . Although it’s not been said explicitly that “ we “ are better it’s implicit in that others posters rantings 

 

.it’s also implicit in much of the rhetoric from Sturgeon et al . 

Made up. 

 

Totally made up. 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 My rhetoric is hardly the same . TMT thinks he knows it all and his perceptions / views / opinions regarding Indy , actually most things are sacrosanct.  He’s been pulled up a few time today and doesn’t like it . 

You're making things up. Contribute nothing other than memes then bleat like a stuck pig when you're called out.

 

Stop making things up. 

 

Stick to posting memes. It's for the best. 

[Japan Jambo]

On 03/07/2022 at 01:11, Stanley_ said:

I live in England and would vote yes in a referendum but I'm 100% against giving a vote to Scottish people who don't live in Scotland. The vote should only be for people living in Scotland, regardless of nationality. It's not a good route to go down to say it should be about people who were born in Scotland. If we become independent, then it affects everyone who lives in the country. Nationality shouldn't be part of this at all.

 

With respect it also has an impact on Scots that don't live there - what passport do I end up with?

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Made up. 

 

Totally made up. 

Now you are clutching at straws. I have stayed in England but only visited Wales and Northern Ireland . It wasn’t clear in my posting . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You're making things up. Contribute nothing other than memes then bleat like a stuck pig when you're called out.

 

Stop making things up. 

 

Stick to posting memes. It's for the best. 

Not liking when challenged with your absolute nonsense about England and Scotland being different . 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not liking when challenged with your absolute nonsense about England and Scotland being different . 

 

*insert meme here*

 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not liking when challenged with your absolute nonsense about England and Scotland being different . 

 

Scotland and England are different, there's a massive difference in our geology, in population density, in landscape and infrastructure challenges. It's just a fact.

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Scotland and England are different, there's a massive difference in our geology, in population density, in landscape and infrastructure challenges. It's just a fact.

We appear to have a fair bit of density in our population. 

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

With respect it also has an impact on Scots that don't live there - what passport do I end up with?

It’s a good question, I would imagine you will be able to continue to have a British one if only for the money it would make them. 
It’s not what it used to be though post Brexit, rumours have it 321 MPs have Irish passports. 
Something that will need to be discussed though. 

[Lord Montpelier]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Scotland and England are different, there's a massive difference in our geology, in population density, in landscape and infrastructure challenges. It's just a fact.

Cumbria and Essex are different on all your points

 

As are Norfolk and Merseyside

 

As are Yorkshire and Somerset

 

All facts. But not sure what the relevance is. Places are different , right, but can still have commonality ? Scotland is 'different' to England. But not a great argument for independence. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Scotland and England are different, there's a massive difference in our geology, in population density, in landscape and infrastructure challenges. It's just a fact.

Indeed, like any separate country’s populations, similarities between us all don’t deflect from that. 

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

With respect it also has an impact on Scots that don't live there - what passport do I end up with?

I agree, your pension, passport, right to ever return, your family, friends, all make this something that impacts on you. Plus, statistically speaking you're likely to move back at some point.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Cumbria and Essex are different on all your points

 

As are Norfolk and Merseyside

 

As are Yorkshire and Somerset

 

All facts. But not sure what the relevance is. Places are different , right, but can still have commonality ? Scotland is 'different' to England. But not a great argument for independence. 

 

I didn't say it was an argument, James asked how they were different.

[Lord Montpelier]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

We appear to have a fair bit of density in our population. 

Blame the much maligned SNP education policy, MT . 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Lord Montpelier said:

Cumbria and Essex are different on all your points

 

As are Norfolk and Merseyside

 

As are Yorkshire and Somerset

 

All facts. But not sure what the relevance is. Places are different , right, but can still have commonality ? Scotland is 'different' to England. But not a great argument for independence. 

Agreed, but it is when one of the countries political views impact on the others, it causes a democratic deficiency. Scotland hasn’t voted in the tories since 1955, even the Labour Party is a pale imitation of what it used to be so they can appeal to the centre right (generous) views of the majority of Brexit/Tory voters down south. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

21 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It’s not “ shit “ . I’m my view . That other Indy person has called for “ traitors “ and “ hoose jocks “ to be thrown out of an Indy Scotland or even worse hung on spikes ( he alluded to that one time ) . My rhetoric is hardly the same . TMT thinks he knows it all and his perceptions / views / opinions regarding Indy , actually most things are sacrosanct.  He’s been pulled up a few time today and doesn’t like it . 

It is shit and you are making it up. There is only one Nat on here who has ranted any anti English stuff and he has been roundly called out.

 

You are entitled to a different perspective on the issue of values or anything else but you bring yourself down to his level when you make shit up to try and support your own prejudices. 

And I have never heard Sturgeon even imply 'we' are better. I am sure there are plenty of arseholes who believe it but she has never said it. 

That's the sort of thing you have rightly been called out for.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Blame the much maligned SNP education policy, MT . 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19929798.scotland-europes-best-educated-population-according-eurostat/

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Cumbria and Essex are different on all your points

 

As are Norfolk and Merseyside

 

As are Yorkshire and Somerset

 

All facts. But not sure what the relevance is. Places are different , right, but can still have commonality ? Scotland is 'different' to England. But not a great argument for independence. 

 

Do you know why there's no granite city in England?

 

Because Scotland and England started on different continents and crashed into each other. 

 

This is why we have renewable energy coming out of our arses, and why England wants it.

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed, like any separate country’s populations, similarities between us all don’t deflect from that. 

Exactly. We have many cultural, historical and linguistic links with Eire, does that justify a union that doesn't work for us?

[Lord Montpelier]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19929798.scotland-europes-best-educated-population-according-eurostat/

Lol. You quoting from the National is like me quoting from the Daily Mail

[Lord Montpelier]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Do you know why there's no granite city in England?

 

Because Scotland and England started on different continents and crashed into each other. 

 

This is why we have renewable energy coming out of our arses, and why England wants it.

I get the renewables argument conceptually. A good one and vote winner. The SNP have yet failed to convert it into a comprehensive economic argument, other than statements like we have it 'coming out of our arses' . 

 

Which isn't a vote winner.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Lord Montpelier

[Lord Montpelier]

10 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

It is shit and you are making it up. There is only one Nat on here who has ranted any anti English stuff and he has been roundly called out.

 

You are entitled to a different perspective on the issue of values or anything else but you bring yourself down to his level when you make shit up to try and support your own prejudices. 

And I have never heard Sturgeon even imply 'we' are better. I am sure there are plenty of arseholes who believe it but she has never said it. 

That's the sort of thing you have rightly been called out for.

I have a unique perspective.  Scots born, English accent

 

Have had plenty of the anti English stuff since moving back directed at me. Mainly in Glasgow. Ri isn't the only one.

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I have a unique perspective.  Scots born, English accent

 

Have had plenty of the anti English stuff since moving back directed at me. Mainly in Glasgow. Ri isn't the only one.

Did you have any anti Scottish stuff in England?

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I get the renewables argument conceptually. A good one and vote winner. The SNP have yet failed to convert it into a comprehensive economic argument, other than statements like we have it 'coming out of out arses' . 

 

Which isn't a vote winner.

 

I'm answering your point mate, not trying to convince you.

 

There are people reading this who will see that the point being made about Scotland and England not being that physically different can be destroyed really easily.

 

The countries are different, we started on different continents, the dirt beneath our feet is different, the stone we're built on is different, it's just a fact.

 

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Did you have any anti Scottish stuff in England?

 

I used to get it loads in England, I was the local sweaty.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Smithee

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Did you have any anti Scottish stuff in England?

Nope. None at all growing up on Merseyside and Yorkshire. 

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm answering your point mate, not trying to convince you.

 

There are people reading this who will see that the point you made about Scotland and England not being that physically different can be destroyed really easily.

 

The countries are different, we started on different continents, the dirt beneath our feet is different, the stone we're built on is different, it's just a fact.

 

 

I used to get it loads in England, I was the local sweaty.

I need to go to geology remedial school to learn about all this UK tectonic plate movement obviously 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

I used to get it loads in England, I was the local sweaty.

What area was that? I can honestly say that in nearly 20 I never had any, what I'd call malicious, abouse, nothing more than lighthearted banter, nothing more than someone from Manchester gives someone from Liverpool or Newcastle to someone from Sunderland.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

What area was that? I can honestly say that in nearly 20 I never had any, what I'd call malicious, abouse, nothing more than lighthearted banter, nothing more than someone from Manchester gives someone from Liverpool or Newcastle to someone from Sunderland.

 

Salford and Manchester

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Nope. None at all growing up on Merseyside and Yorkshire. 

Me niether, Derbyshire then Lancashire/Cumbia/North Yorkshire.