Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Can you vote in the independence referendum? 

If I move back or buy a house in Scotland before the Referendum, what exact date is it by the way? then yes, I could vote.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Dawnrazor

[Unknown user]

 

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Tourists come to Scotland for loads of reasons, where did I say it was because it in the UK?

Edinburgh won't inevitably seek independence if Scotland does, I'm just raising the point that in the future other areas of the UK could gain enough confidence to seek a more independent relationship, federalism? from either Scotland or England.

 

I didn't say you said anything about tourism, but it was said on this thread

 

You did say further break up was inevitable though.

 

But whatever man, you were engaged and worth talking to yesterday, I'm not going to bother with this.

Best.

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

I didn't say you said anything about tourism, but it was said on this thread

 

You did say further break up was inevitable though.

 

But whatever man, you were engaged and worth talking to yesterday, I'm not going to bother with this.

Best.

I never said a further break up was inevitable, I said possible.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Dawnrazor

[pablo]

A lot of long distance tourists, US and China do visit Edinburgh and the Highlands as part of a UK visit including London obviously.

 

Not sure what the fk it's got to do with the Independence debate and I can't see how that would change should Scotland not be part of the UK mind.

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

If I move back or buy a house in Scotland before the Referendum, what exact date is it by the way? then yes, I could vote.

Can you vote today?

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Can you vote today?

Is the Referendum today?

[ri Alban]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

Is the Referendum today?

Why, if it was today, can't you vote?

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Why, if it was today, can't you vote?

 

Just now, ri Alban said:

Why, if it was today, can't you vote?

It's not today though is it🤣

[ri Alban]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

 

It's not today though is it🤣

Answer the question? Can you vote in an independence referendum, as it stands?

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Answer the question? Can you vote in an independence referendum, as it stands?

When is that?

[ri Alban]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

When is that?

So that's a no. When you start working and living in Scotland, I'll listen to your opinion on independence. Right now, it means nothing. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure people all over the world have family in other parts of the world. Boo hoo, deal with it 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, ri Alban said:

So that's a no. When you start working and living in Scotland, I'll listen to your opinion on independence. Right now, it means nothing. 

 

 

 

Well that's a great attitude 🤣🤣

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I never said a further break up was inevitable, I said possible.

 

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

My point really was that I think a Yes vote would inevitably lead to a further future break up

 

[jack D and coke]

25 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

But if you said there would not need to be a hard border between Scotland and England why would there need to be one between Yorkshire and Lincolnshire or Cornwall and Devon or Edinburgh and Fife?

You raised a great point about not needing to use cash but your card so negating the need to constantly change between the euro and the pound, why would this not apply to a break away County?

I’m using the scare tactics of the unionists😉HARD BORDERS😂

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

I’m using the scare tactics of the unionists😉HARD BORDERS😂

🤣 

I actually don't think will be a hard border in the event of independence, I think a sensible solution would be worked out and you pretty mauch laid to rest the argument about a necessary change of of currency when crossing the border by using a card, that hadn't crossed my aging mind😅

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

Yep, I didn't mean that it was inevitable, my apologies, I've ways meant that it's a possibility, in Scotland and England.

[ri Alban]

Why you want to argue with none residential people, well it's not worth the time. The likes of

@Geoff Kilpatrick @Dawnrazor @Ainsley Harriott  have no say in Scottish independence and never will,  the other bullshitters who "I voted yes, in 2014" and clearly didn't brigade. Leave them to their own thoughts, it has clearly broken them, the realisation, that the UK of GB and NI is finished, once and for all. 

 

 

 

 

 

Tick Tock goes the clock in the heid of the Hoose Jocks. 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

🤣

I actually don't think will be a hard border in the event of independence, I think a sensible solution would be worked out and you pretty mauch laid to rest the argument about a necessary change of of currency when crossing the border by using a card, that hadn't crossed my aging mind😅

😂👍🏼

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Yep, I didn't mean that it was inevitable, my apologies, I've ways meant that it's a possibility, in Scotland and England.

 

 

Again, come on now. You're not a bad lad but no one confuses inevitably with possibly, you knew fine what you were saying and you've kept digging since.

 

Edinburgh's away to seek independence is it? Is that honestly even a realistic possibility?

 

Plate of bollocks mate.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Why you want to argue with none residential people, well it's not worth the time. The likes of

@Geoff Kilpatrick @Dawnrazor @Ainsley Harriott  have no say in Scottish independence and never will,  the other bullshitters who "I voted yes, in 2014" and clearly didn't brigade. Leave them to their own thoughts, it has clearly broken them, the realisation, that the UK of GB and NI is finished, once and for all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tick Tock goes the clock in the heid of the Hoose Jocks. 

 

I lived in Holland last time round and I had plenty to say on the subject 🤷‍♂️

 

Pretty sure I've seen you arguing with Americans about US politics by the way!

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

 

Again, come on now. You're not a bad lad but no one confuses inevitably with possibly, you knew fine what you were saying and you've kept digging since.

 

Edinburgh's away to seek independence is it? Is that honestly even a realistic possibility?

 

Plate of bollocks mate.

A genuine mistake smithee, as you can see from the rest of the time I said possible, it happens, I'm sure you've even made some.

I said Edinburgh and the Borders could decide that they'd be better off staying with the UK post a Yes vote, the Shetlands too, would want to deny them that choice?

In principle, would you?

 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

I lived in Holland last time round and I had plenty to say on the subject 🤷‍♂️

 

Pretty sure I've seen you arguing with Americans about US politics by the way!

Exactly.

[Lord Montpelier]

21 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

So that's a no. When you start working and living in Scotland, I'll listen to your opinion on independence. Right now, it means nothing. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure people all over the world have family in other parts of the world. Boo hoo, deal with it 

I'm not terribly sure on recent postings your opinion is worth much either.

[Lord Montpelier]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Why you want to argue with none residential people, well it's not worth the time. The likes of

@Geoff Kilpatrick @Dawnrazor @Ainsley Harriott  have no say in Scottish independence and never will,  the other bullshitters who "I voted yes, in 2014" and clearly didn't brigade. Leave them to their own thoughts, it has clearly broken them, the realisation, that the UK of GB and NI is finished, once and for all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tick Tock goes the clock in the heid of the Hoose Jocks. 

Oh here we go. Next post will be some more xenophobic nationalist nonsence. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Why you want to argue with none residential people, well it's not worth the time. The likes of

@Geoff Kilpatrick @Dawnrazor @Ainsley Harriott  have no say in Scottish independence and never will,  the other bullshitters who "I voted yes, in 2014" and clearly didn't brigade. Leave them to their own thoughts, it has clearly broken them, the realisation, that the UK of GB and NI is finished, once and for all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tick Tock goes the clock in the heid of the Hoose Jocks. 

 

McGlashan now deciding who can contribute as well.

[Dawnrazor]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/independence-may-lead-britains-balkanisation-1535100

 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

 

McGlashan now deciding who can contribute as well.

Nip nap shite

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/independence-may-lead-britains-balkanisation-1535100

 

No mention of Scotland's Balkanisation I see.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Smithee said:

No mention of Scotland's Balkanisation I see.

No, but if the idea can be floated about it in England, and it has as I've said, Cumbria Northumberland Yorkshire and Cornwall, why can't the principle of it be applied to Scotland? 

[Nookie Bear]

33 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

So that's a no. When you start working and living in Scotland, I'll listen to your opinion on independence. Right now, it means nothing. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure people all over the world have family in other parts of the world. Boo hoo, deal with it 

What about Scots living and working in England? Can they vote?

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

No, but if the idea can be floated about it in England, and it has as I've said, Cumbria Northumberland Yorkshire and Cornwall, why can't the principle of it be applied to Scotland? 

Whatever mate, you're obviously trying to muddy the waters with absolute nonsense.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

What about Scots living and working in England? Can they vote?

No, not yet anyway, but it's only the facepainting freedom shouting saltire shagging ultra nats that should even have an opinion on it apparently. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Whatever mate, you're obviously trying to muddy the waters with absolute nonsense.

I'm really not Smithee, it's a genuine question, can honestly completely dismiss the possibility?

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/independence-may-lead-britains-balkanisation-1535100

 

Scotland is a daft wee nation that can’t keep its trousers up on its own apparently but vote to try and it’s cataclysmic for the whole world🤣

Russia breaking up or Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia didnt cause this cataclysmic event but Scotland would. 
The Scotsman is a national riddy of a paper. 
Cameron had asked Putin as well to have a wee word with us. Mind that? 
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13140055.camerons-plea-putin-help-stop-salmond/

Edited July 4, 2022 by jack D and coke

[Unknown user]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Scotland is a daft wee nation that can’t keep its trousers up on its own apparently but vote to try and it’s cataclysmic for the whole world🤣

Russia breaking up or Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia didnt cause this cataclysmic event but Scotland would. 
The Scotsman is a national riddy of a paper. 
Cameron had asked Putin as well to have a wee word with is. Mind that? 

 

Mental eh?

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Scotland is a daft wee nation that can’t keep its trousers up on its own apparently but vote to try and it’s cataclysmic for the whole world🤣

Russia breaking up or Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia didnt cause this cataclysmic event but Scotland would. 
The Scotsman is a national riddy of a paper. 
Cameron had asked Putin as well to have a wee word with us. Mind that? 
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13140055.camerons-plea-putin-help-stop-salmond/

Was Swedan not one of the countries Elsie wanted to be like a couple of weeks ago ? Either way they don't sound very supportive of the separatist plans. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Lord Montpelier said:

Was Swedan not one of the countries Elsie wanted to be like a couple of weeks ago ? Either way they don't sound very supportive of the separatist plans. 

So? Who's trying to please Sweden?

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Scotland is a daft wee nation that can’t keep its trousers up on its own apparently but vote to try and it’s cataclysmic for the whole world🤣

Russia breaking up or Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia didnt cause this cataclysmic event but Scotland would. 
The Scotsman is a national riddy of a paper. 
Cameron had asked Putin as well to have a wee word with us. Mind that? 
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13140055.camerons-plea-putin-help-stop-salmond/

You kind of make my point, you're making the same arguments against other areas with Scotland breaking away.

[Seymour M Hersh]

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 hours ago, jonesy said:

Rory Stewart’s documentary (okay, so he was pro union) about the borderlands having as much case to be considered a ‘country’ as any other constituent part of the UK was interesting, even if you don’t agree with his politics or view on the matter.

I read that as Rod Stewart first and thought what the hell ! 

46 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m using the scare tactics of the unionists😉HARD BORDERS😂

There is s possibility of this . Doubt it but it can happen 

27 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I'm not terribly sure on recent postings your opinion is worth much either.

I just ignore him now really 

26 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Oh here we go. Next post will be some more xenophobic nationalist nonsence. 

I know 

6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Was Swedan not one of the countries Elsie wanted to be like a couple of weeks ago ? Either way they don't sound very supportive of the separatist plans. 

Why hasn’t she used the example of Portugal ? Oh yes there economy is tanked despite being a wee nation . She picks and chooses . 

[i wish jj was my dad]

45 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

🤣

I actually don't think will be a hard border in the event of independence, I think a sensible solution would be worked out and you pretty mauch laid to rest the argument about a necessary change of of currency when crossing the border by using a card, that hadn't crossed my aging mind😅

I don't think there would be a hard border either. I think that would be a step too far for even the most ultra hardliner. 

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

You kind of make my point, you're making the same arguments against other areas with Scotland breaking away.

I’m not agreeing at all. You’ve started today saying the borders and Edinburgh and Cornwall etc are all breaking away and now Scotland going independent will cause cataclysmic events and probably a plague of locusts next. 
Im not seeing the similarities. I’m amused by these analogies  

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I read that as Rod Stewart first and thought what the hell ! 

There is s possibility of this . Doubt it but it can happen 

I just ignore him now really 

I know 

Why hasn’t she used the example of Portugal ? Oh yes there economy is tanked despite being a wee nation . She picks and chooses . 

Have you read Portugal’s history? At one point not all that long ago they had about 40 changes of govt in a couple of years. These countries have had enormous changes and internal struggles for years. 

Theres a reason you don’t compare Scotland to them. 
Do you think the Portuguese would vote to give their liberty to Spain? 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I don't think there would be a hard border either. I think that would be a step too far for even the most ultra hardliner. 

Well this is nice, it's not long since I was ***** of the day for insisting there's no reason to assume there'll be customs checks.

 

As people have said before, the UK's always been pretty grown up about actual independence agreements, and I don't think England or Scotland want a hard border.

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Why hasn’t she used the example of Portugal ? Oh yes there economy is tanked despite being a wee nation . She picks and chooses . 

 

A reminder about the state of the UK economy:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61997353

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

39 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Why you want to argue with none residential people, well it's not worth the time. The likes of

@Geoff Kilpatrick @Dawnrazor @Ainsley Harriott  have no say in Scottish independence and never will,  the other bullshitters who "I voted yes, in 2014" and clearly didn't brigade. Leave them to their own thoughts, it has clearly broken them, the realisation, that the UK of GB and NI is finished, once and for all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tick Tock goes the clock in the heid of the Hoose Jocks. 

This is the kind of xenophobic pish that makes me fear for the future. Every bit as bad as the extreme nonsense that forage & co promoted down south. 

 

I want to live in a moderate, progressive country and don't want to switch from one form of malignant extremism for another.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

First up, I appreciate you having a go. 

 

My starting point on this is not about 'getting it up England' which is playground level nonsense.

 

Scotland and England are different countries. Different peoples. Different mentality. Different outlook. We've been diverging since the end of WWII and IMO that's picked up pace since the 80s. 

 

On your first point I think Scotland would still attract all those things, good and bad. 

The lack of robustness and the setting of the sun on the UKs global power is driving the divergence between Scotland and England. 

England is heading right and has been for years. Its heading to an autocratic soft fascism right now and that is alien to the traditional small c conservative nature of Scots. 

I get your point about the power of the blue passport but a passport is a passport at the end of the day.

You raised a good point about opportunities then immediately answered it yourself. Brexit and abolition of FOM was an act of vandalism to the career and educational travel opportunities of Scottish kids. 

Scotland has always had a mobile workforce who go with the money or the career and end up across the global workplace. Scots don't want that to change they want to look outwards, our neighbours are looking inwards with all the ugly nationalist problems that entails. 

The figureheads are transitory, although the current mob are particularly toxic. 

The media will sadly indoctrinate the undecided with a staple diet of half truths and whatever Murdoch & Rothermere decide is in their own interests.

 

The question won't go away. It'll keep getting asked as the logical reasons to let another country dictate what you can and can't disappear over time and eventually the UK will be no more than an economic trading block.

 

Time will tell I suppose 🤷‍♂️

How exactly are Scotland and England different countries ? Different “ outlooks” ? Etc . That kind of argument always intrigues me . Usually it means Scottish are more “ friendly , more tolerant and welcoming “ aye so we are !  I’ll acknowledge that English voters do vote for more centre / right parties but there is a groundswell of Tory voters up here too . And that’s fine , it’s a democracy . I just find that line of argument for Indy racist actually . 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

I’m not agreeing at all. You’ve started today saying the borders and Edinburgh and Cornwall etc are all breaking away and now Scotland going independent will cause cataclysmic events and probably a plague of locusts next. 
Im not seeing the similarities. I’m amused by these analogies  

I've never said that Scottish Independence will cause cataclysmic events.

I've said that areas in England have raised the argument that some think they'd be better off on thier own and that areas in Scotland could do the same, Edinburgh and the Borders as an example, in future.

I've also pointed out that you and others have used the exact same arguments and language againts the very idea, not even my idea! that the staunch unionists used and continue to use against Scottish Independence. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

A reminder about the state of the UK economy:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61997353

 

A lot of economies are in a mess . Covid didn’t help any of them . Blame both govts for that 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Well this is nice, it's not long since I was ***** of the day for insisting there's no reason to assume there'll be customs checks.

 

As people have said before, the UK's always been pretty grown up about actual independence agreements, and I don't think England or Scotland want a hard border.

What “ independence agreements “ have we been “ grown up “ about ? We haven’t had independence !