Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, jambo89 said: My point was below? Not sure how much clearer I can be. You want to flood the country with drugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo89 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: You want to flood the country with drugs? Yes mate, that's exactly what I said 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, pablo said: Is there many things that have been discussed in the last few pages, which being part of the UK precludes Scotland from focusing on? In terms of drugs, obviously we can't legalise usage or set up shooting galleries independently from the rest of the UK. That still doesn't explain why we're struggling so much with it. But everything else? Growing the economy, focusing on certain industries, aligning education to meet the future plan. They're all things I'd expect from the Scottish Government to have a strategy on and some success in delivering after 15 years. If they did, they would probably shift some undecided voters over to their side. But they don't seem capable or particularly interested. The grievance shtick is a huge turn off for just as many as it's a rallying call for others. I'd go as far as to say it's actually pretty Un-Scottish considering what our forefathers gave the world. Albeit mostly as part of the British Empire 😀 Have you read the National.Strategy for Economic Transformation? Can't pretend I am knowledgeable but I think it does pretty much set out what you are asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, jambo89 said: Yes mate, that's exactly what I said 👍 Your a genius. I'd take a zero tolerance approach over what I suspect is your more liberal, live and let live, outlook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: Have you read the National.Strategy for Economic Transformation? Can't pretend I am knowledgeable but I think it does pretty much set out what you are asking for. Cool. No, I haven't read it cover to cover. I'll have a read of it. I'm aware that it's where Forbes admitted we have a problem/gap. Which obviously means cuts or collecting more taxes. To be fair, I'll give it a read but in all honesty, after 15 years in charge I would have expected to be seeing some results by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo89 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Your a genius. I'd take a zero tolerance approach over what I suspect is your more liberal, live and let live, outlook. That's fine and that's you're opionion and you could vote for the party that takes a zero tolerance approach in an independent Scotland. Although I think you'll be dissapointed as can't see any political party advocating jaling a 17 year old laddie for smoking a joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, pablo said: Cool. No, I haven't read it cover to cover. I'll have a read of it. I'm aware that it's where Forbes admitted we have a problem/gap. Which obviously means cuts or collecting more taxes. To be fair, I'll give it a read but in all honesty, after 15 years in charge I would have expected to be seeing some results by now. I'm not saying it is any good and I have only skimmed it tbh but from memory it does cover the stuff you describe. There have been various strategies over the years. Open to debate whether they have delivered much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, jambo89 said: That's fine and that's you're opionion and you could vote for the party that takes a zero tolerance approach in an independent Scotland. Although I think you'll be dissapointed as can't see any political party advocating jaling a 17 year old laddie for smoking a joint. This isn’t aimed at you. Or anyone in particular but there isn’t the money or the resources to take a zero tolerance approach. You’d need to build dozens of jails too it just isn’t possible. If you arrested edinburghs top dog it doesn’t solve anything for example it’s a known fact that crime then increases as others fight for the turf. Wars on drugs and zero tolerance are backwards thinking. The rewards are so great that people will risk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, pablo said: Cool. No, I haven't read it cover to cover. I'll have a read of it. I'm aware that it's where Forbes admitted we have a problem/gap. Which obviously means cuts or collecting more taxes. To be fair, I'll give it a read but in all honesty, after 15 years in charge I would have expected to be seeing some results by now. What have we seen from the Tories in 12 years in charge of the U.K.? The basic fact is until we can borrow money like any other country we won’t be able to spend enough to counteract the problems we have in society, certainly not tied to this union anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo89 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, jack D and coke said: This isn’t aimed at you. Or anyone in particular but there isn’t the money or the resources to take a zero tolerance approach. You’d need to build dozens of jails too it just isn’t possible. If you arrested edinburghs top dog it doesn’t solve anything for example it’s a known fact that crime then increases as others fight for the turf. Wars on drugs and zero tolerance are backwards thinking. The rewards are so great that people will risk it. I completely agree, although think you may have been better quoting the poster who said they prefer a zero tolerance approach as on this, it sounds like we are agreed about most things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: This isn’t aimed at you. Or anyone in particular but there isn’t the money or the resources to take a zero tolerance approach. You’d need to build dozens of jails too it just isn’t possible. If you arrested edinburghs top dog it doesn’t solve anything for example it’s a known fact that crime then increases as others fight for the turf. Wars on drugs and zero tolerance are backwards thinking. The rewards are so great that people will risk it. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 hour ago, jambo89 said: Interesting question. For me, investing in people is the key. Forget about business' and corporation tax rates, attracting tourism, exports and all that fluff that economists say is important. We invest in the people of this country, because one begets the other afaic. That means starting from the bottom and working up. By bottom, I mean education / nursery level and pour money in to the youth of today and not just 'skirt around the edges'. I realise education is devolved but I feel we could do so much more with our own money rather than having to allocate a certain amount that is handed to us by WM. Investing in people also means allowing small business and to innovate and 'take risks' by esnuring there is adequate support on hand (perhaps in the form of a tax break / lower tax for companies with fewer than 5 people). Scotland has a strong history of engineering and innovation and investing in the people of this country, rather than kowtowing to the big business' which WM love to do, would likely see us propser, all imo of course. Very good posting . I’d also add a change in philosophy of “ work pays “ 56 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: The war on drugs doesn't work. It doesn’t really as people will always take drugs but some more jail time for some may have some impact . 39 minutes ago, jambo89 said: You don't know the difference between a pharmaceutical company and a drug dealer? I'd have thought there it was obvious One is state sponsored and legal the other isn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Your a genius. I'd take a zero tolerance approach over what I suspect is your more liberal, live and let live, outlook. You'd take a complete waste of money that will achieve nothing when it could be legalised, controlled, taxed, and that money put to treatment and education? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Smithee said: You'd take a complete waste of money that will achieve nothing when it could be legalised, controlled, taxed, and that money put to treatment and education? The way you indy boys are arguing this one I'm tempted to set myself up as a dealer if there is a yes vote. Seems I'll make good money for little if any comeback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: This isn’t aimed at you. Or anyone in particular but there isn’t the money or the resources to take a zero tolerance approach. You’d need to build dozens of jails too it just isn’t possible. If you arrested edinburghs top dog it doesn’t solve anything for example it’s a known fact that crime then increases as others fight for the turf. Wars on drugs and zero tolerance are backwards thinking. The rewards are so great that people will risk it. Bang on. Radical thinking required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: The way you indy boys are arguing this one I'm tempted to set myself up as a dealer if there is a yes vote. Seems I'll make good money for little if any comeback. Why would dealers be needed if it's legalised, controlled and taxed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, Smithee said: Why would dealers be needed if it's legalised, controlled and taxed? I'll be the guy dealing legally into the system Seriously though, the fact that Scotland is in this state in the first place gives me zero faith in its current leadership to do the right thing. Whatever that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 We need more dealers Imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: The way you indy boys are arguing this one I'm tempted to set myself up as a dealer if there is a yes vote. Seems I'll make good money for little if any comeback. It’s indicative of a progressive, forward thinking and modern outlook, everything people who support the Union don’t understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, jack D and coke said: We need more dealers Imo. Not at Westminster they don’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: I'll be the guy dealing legally into the system Seriously though, the fact that Scotland is in this state in the first place gives me zero faith in its current leadership to do the right thing. Whatever that is. Yeah it’s definitely all their fault, was it grievance politics you called it 😱🤔🤷🏾♂️😂?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said: Not at Westminster they don’t. Don’t know about you but I’m hoping in an indy Scotland there’s just no laws. Be barry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, jack D and coke said: Don’t know about you but I’m hoping in an indy Scotland there’s just no laws. Be barry. Hell yeah Free for all. Let the drugs flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, pablo said: Bang on. Radical thinking required. It does indeed. I don’t think anyone has the bolloks though. Youd have people up in arms unless you do the old tried, trusted and failed method of zero tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: It’s indicative of a progressive, forward thinking and modern outlook, everything people who support the Union don’t understand. Did it make you feel all socially liberal and concentious writing that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: I'll be the guy dealing legally into the system Seriously though, the fact that Scotland is in this state in the first place gives me zero faith in its current leadership to do the right thing. Whatever that is. I would argue that they inherited a time bomb from the 80s and 90s but agree that they haven't done much to make it any better. We need to give hope to people, particularly young people who live in communities that the arse has dropped out of. I only see that getting worse sadly because of the self inflicted wounds of brexit and repeatedly voting in governments who are only interested in their own agendas. There has been no credible opposition either side of the border for more than a decade so the incumbents can more or less behave as they please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo89 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 17 minutes ago, Smithee said: You'd take a complete waste of money that will achieve nothing when it could be legalised, controlled, taxed, and that money put to treatment and education? Almost as if they wants the status quo to continue, despite it patently not working eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: I'll be the guy dealing legally into the system Seriously though, the fact that Scotland is in this state in the first place gives me zero faith in its current leadership to do the right thing. Whatever that is. We're not talking about the current leadership though. Cool, you be that guy, it'll cost you a fortune for the licences and set up and what have you, but it's for the greater good so fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, Smithee said: We're not talking about the current leadership though. Cool, you be that guy, it'll cost you a fortune for the licences and set up and what have you, but it's for the greater good so fine by me. What would you like to buy from my menu of mindbending drugs, Smithee ? Get the order in early and I'll find you a discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, jambo89 said: Almost as if they wants the status quo to continue, despite it patently not working eh! For the record, I'm he/him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: I would argue that they inherited a time bomb from the 80s and 90s but agree that they haven't done much to make it any better. We need to give hope to people, particularly young people who live in communities that the arse has dropped out of. I only see that getting worse sadly because of the self inflicted wounds of brexit and repeatedly voting in governments who are only interested in their own agendas. There has been no credible opposition either side of the border for more than a decade so the incumbents can more or less behave as they please. Agree. Young folk need a purpose. Something the current administration have failed to deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, Lord Montpelier said: Agree. Young folk need a purpose. Something the current administration have failed to deliver. What would you suggest the SG should implement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Very good posting . I’d also add a change in philosophy of “ work pays “ It doesn’t really as people will always take drugs but some more jail time for some may have some impact . One is state sponsored and legal the other isn’t The problem ATM is work isn't really paying for an awful lot of people. Even families with two working parents are struggling to make ends meet. And we subsidise big firms who won't pay a living wage or offer decent contracts by topping up the pittance their staff get through state benefits. These are basic priorities all governments should be focusing on now. Instead WM is too busy lining pockets and Holyrood are diverting resources from the front line to try and deliver constitutional change. ****s the lot of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, i wish jj was my dad said: The problem ATM is work isn't really paying for an awful lot of people. Even families with two working parents are struggling to make ends meet. And we subsidise big firms who won't pay a living wage or offer decent contracts by topping up the pittance their staff get through state benefits. These are basic priorities all governments should be focusing on now. Instead WM is too busy lining pockets and Holyrood are diverting resources from the front line to try and deliver constitutional change. ****s the lot of them Agreed that a good increase in minimal wage is sorely needed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, Konrad von Carstein said: What would you suggest the SG should implement? Go back to what I said earlier . Get renewables really 'right'. Drop energy prices attracting foreign companies. This gives wealth and prosperity. And jobs and purpose. I'd vote for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo89 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: For the record, I'm he/him. Wasn't trying to be overly PC there, just didn't want to assume you were a bloke as I know there are a few female posters on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, Konrad von Carstein said: What would you suggest the SG should implement? It's not a quick fix by any means but I would prioritise increasing our manufacturing base. I'd also be straining every sinew to get back into the single market. I'd urgently review tax relief and increase the living wage substantially no ifs or buts. Short term I haven't a clue what to do about drug deaths. Others have offered more radical suggestions that are worth exploring but this mess has been 40 years in the making and it won't be fixed quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, jambo89 said: Wasn't trying to be overly PC there, just didn't want to assume you were a bloke as I know there are a few female posters on here. It's ok, I don't care, pulling your leg. Feel free to call me what you like (within legal reason) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: What would you like to buy from my menu of mindbending drugs, Smithee ? Get the order in early and I'll find you a discount. Great banter... Seriously though, you want war on drugs, despite it being proven to fail. And the best counter arguments you have to my position is ripping the pish. I already get legal medical cannabis from a professional medical outfit in the UK (although I can't afford that any more!) It's taxed, licensed, dispensed professionally, it has admin support, courier contracts, you name it. Yet people still go to jail for possessing cannabis, it's ****ing ridiculous, the UK is arse over tit on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 16 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Did it make you feel all socially liberal and concentious writing that ? Nothing liberal about me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: Go back to what I said earlier . Get renewables really 'right'. Drop energy prices attracting foreign companies. This gives wealth and prosperity. And jobs and purpose. I'd vote for that. Is energy pricing devolved? (I genuinely can't recall). Free further education and practical skills courses (apprenticeships) for U21, perhaps with enhanced benefits for participants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, Smithee said: Great banter... Seriously though, you want war on drugs, despite it being proven to fail. And the best counter arguments you have to my position is ripping the pish. I already get legal medical cannabis from a professional medical outfit in the UK (although I can't afford that any more!) It's taxed, licensed, dispensed professionally, it has admin support, courier contracts, you name it. Yet people still go to jail for possessing cannabis, it's ****ing ridiculous, the UK is arse over tit on the subject. All I want is the dealers dealt with severely. Like my ex mate. For proper drugs. Take as much pot as you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: All I want is the dealers dealt with severely. Like my ex mate. For proper drugs. Take as much pot as you like. Let's get rid of dealers then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Don’t know about you but I’m hoping in an indy Scotland there’s just no laws. Be barry. It would only be a change for normal folk, there doesn’t seem to be much punishment for the elite who continually break the law, then condemn others who do likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Is energy pricing devolved? (I genuinely can't recall). Free further education and practical skills courses (apprenticeships) for U21, perhaps with enhanced benefits for participants. No idea, probably not would be my guess. Agree though, education and apprenticeships are good - two way street though, the participant needs to be engaged as well though (without enhanced benefits in my view if the balance is right) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Smithee said: Let's get rid of dealers then. Jail them all . Whether drugs are legal or illegal some punter will still be pushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Is energy pricing devolved? (I genuinely can't recall). Free further education and practical skills courses (apprenticeships) for U21, perhaps with enhanced benefits for participants. I don't think so, it's OFGEM that sets the pricing limits and they're a Westminster body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Just now, Lord Montpelier said: Jail them all . Whether drugs are legal or illegal some punter will still be pushing. That's just completely removed from the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: It would only be a change for normal folk, there doesn’t seem to be much punishment for the elite who continually break the law, then condemn others who do likewise. Haha aye no far wrong mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: No idea, probably not would be my guess. Agree though, education and apprenticeships are good - two way street though, the participant needs to be engaged as well though (without enhanced benefits in my view if the balance is right) Well paid apprenticeships would be a start. Maybe with a state funded incentive for successfully completing. Back in the day kids were getting paid £25 a week for making tea and running errands. It was just a means of keeping them off the dole stats. Proper modern apprenticeships paying a living wage would be a far better proposition than a kiddy on degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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