Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Roxy Hearts]

33 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

It's very cute btw how you, MT and Roxy jump in to defend each other and (failing) nationalist ideals

What's "nationalistic ideals"? Like having big UK flags behind the PM, Brexit, British jobs for British workers, UK flags on produce, Brit propaganda from nearly every media outlet etc, etc, etc............

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What's "nationalistic ideals"? Like having big UK flags behind the PM, Brexit, British jobs for British workers, UK flags on produce, Brit propaganda from nearly every media outlet etc, etc, etc............

Ah... there we go. Right on cue. If you are triggered by a flag (any flag) on your tub of Margarine Roxy, I suggest you seek help. 

[pablo]

6 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What's "nationalistic ideals"? Like having big UK flags behind the PM, Brexit, British jobs for British workers, UK flags on produce, Brit propaganda from nearly every media outlet etc, etc, etc............

 

Nobody except Anglophobes cares about stuff like that. It's perfectly normal, see France, the USA or any other country for that matter. 

[John Findlay]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

And yet by every single measure the NHS in the rUK is performing worse than Scotland. All under the stewardship of the alternatives to the SNP. 

 

In your clearly learned opinion, who is waiting in the wings to transform the NHS and how are they going to do it?

Labour? The Tories?

I will repeat ad nauseum. Saying the Scottish NHS is performing better than all other UK countries is like bragging about being 4th bottom in the Scottish second division. Its **** all to write home about.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Quick, deflect. Tell everyone England is just as bad and it will all be fine !!! Ian Blackford playbook, well done. 

 

If the SNP want to transform this they need to do two things . First, give people a purpose beyond being increasingly reliant on state handouts. As Roxy says, and I agree, we have a lot of unfit and unwell people in this country. I believe there is a link between lack of purpose, general illness, and state intervention driving this. 

 

Two- need to encourage a lot more private sector jobs at all levels to give people that purpose when they move into their career. I don't see the SNP doing this to the degree I think they should be, for the most part because they haven't the wit or motivation to do so. 

 

 

Some wibble about quick, deflect and Blackford then three paragraphs of deflection and your 'Daily Mail' world view. 

 

So anyway, the health service? You've got three options. Labour, Tory or SNP. The former two have had since its inception in 1948. One builds it up, the other tears it down with a view to selling it off to their sponsors. Meanwhile the utterly shite SNP are managing to deliver better results with what comes through the block grant. 

 

So again, who is going to improve it and how?

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

I will repeat ad nauseum. Saying the Scottish NHS is performing better than all other UK countries is like bragging about being 4th bottom in the Scottish second division. Its **** all to write home about.

You can say it as much as you like. It's a fact. 

[i8hibsh]

I avoid this thread like the plague but recently seen the front cover of the new manifesto from the Führer on Scotland's 'new' case for 'Independence' and it sums it all up.  It really is her show and her country in her eyes.  She takes up approx 40% of the entire cover.  Just her posing and smiling.

 

 

 

Every publication by the SNP seems to just be one big Sturgeon photo shoot.  I have never seen the like before.  As it stands a 'Yes' vote is for Sturgeon and not Scotland.

 

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to put her centre stage on the front cover of such an important publication.  The only face of such an important matter for this country should be the countries own face and not hers.  I mean, surely a picture of Scotland would look better here than her mug.

 

I'm very much in the 'No' camp but being objective, the contrast between The ALBA campaign and SNPs is staggering.  All I see from ALBA's literature and publications are the St Andrew's flag and writing - no attention seeking from anyone.  It is clear that Salmond has no thirst for control or power, he just wants what it says on the tin.  Sturgeon however wants to rule, it is her show and everything must be done on her terms.  

 

 

 

 

[Lord Montpelier]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

 

Some wibble about quick, deflect and Blackford then three paragraphs of deflection and your 'Daily Mail' world view. 

 

So anyway, the health service? You've got three options. Labour, Tory or SNP. The former two have had since its inception in 1948. One builds it up, the other tears it down with a view to selling it off to their sponsors. Meanwhile the utterly shite SNP are managing to deliver better results with what comes through the block grant. 

 

So again, who is going to improve it and how?

I don't tend to look at these things along party lines. Labour were effectively pro business / private enterprise under Tony Blair. Right now, they are all as bad as each other and I would love to see a 4th option - the Pragmatic Party for arguments sake. 

 

I do look at these things as a system though. Interconnected parts that generate wealth and so prosperity for all. The SNP could do this, if they chose. But they need the right people in place - not folk like Humza, Shirley- Anne, Gilruth, Blackford, Swinney, etc who all hold significant offices of state but lack the intellect and ambition to change the system towards something far better. But hey, get rid of them and replace with some real leaders and I could be persuaded.

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You can say it as much as you like. It's a fact. 

As I said it's not a fact to boast about.

The NHS, its on its knees allover the UK.

Any government could increase its funding a 100 fold, and it would still struggle.

Money is not the NHS's problem. Its how its used. From John O' Groats to Land's End, From Port Talbot to Portrush its wasted by the billions, and no politician of ANY party has got to grips with it.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I don't tend to look at these things along party lines. Labour were effectively pro business / private enterprise under Tony Blair. Right now, they are all as bad as each other and I would love to see a 4th option - the Pragmatic Party for arguments sake. 

 

I do look at these things as a system though. Interconnected parts that generate wealth and so prosperity for all. The SNP could do this, if they chose. But they need the right people in place - not folk like Humza, Shirley- Anne, Gilruth, Blackford, Swinney, etc who all hold significant offices of state but lack the intellect and ambition to change the system towards something far better. But hey, get rid of them and replace with some real leaders and I could be persuaded.

Look around the world of UK politics (or indeed World politics) and there's a dearth of any kind of talent in any of the parties.

 

I don't buy the trope that they're all as bad as each other. They're not. There's a broad spectrum from the genuinely inept to the downright crooked. 

 

You'll get a 4th option which might align to your politics as the Tories will implode and from that will be born two 'Tory' parties, the one nationers and then the ERG led fascist division of empire 2.0 dreamers. 

 

You could even argue there's two already as there is literally nothing between the Tories and Keith's Tory light party. 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

As I said it's not a fact to boast about.

The NHS, its on its knees allover the UK.

Any government could increase its funding a 100 fold, and it would still struggle.

Money is not the NHS's problem. Its how its used. From John O' Groats to Land's End, From Port Talbot to Portrush its wasted by the billions, and no politician of ANY party has got to grips with it.

It's been proven on here time and again that the trope of 'the NHS is full of managers' is utter bollocks. Is it wasteful? Probably. I personally don't agree with free prescriptions as I feel I can afford to pay the fixed fee for them. 

 

Money very much is the NHS's problem. Moreso now than ever. How that gets addressed is a question for the ages as paying the taxes required to get there would scare the living shit out of most people. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I personally don't agree with free prescriptions as I feel I can afford to pay the fixed fee for them. 

 

 

This is a bugbear of mine also. I require regular prescriptions and it does my tits in that I can't contribute towards them while I am able to do so. 

[i8hibsh]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It's been proven on here time and again that the trope of 'the NHS is full of managers' is utter bollocks. Is it wasteful? Probably. I personally don't agree with free prescriptions as I feel I can afford to pay the fixed fee for them. 

 

Money very much is the NHS's problem. Moreso now than ever. How that gets addressed is a question for the ages as paying the taxes required to get there would scare the living shit out of most people. 

 

 

Prescriptions are not free. Just because you don't pay over the counter or at source they are not free. 

 

Sure, (too) many people don't pay for them but the tax paying public foot the bill as always. The SNP just love throwing the "free" word around to make them look good.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

This is a bugbear of mine also. I require regular prescriptions and it does my tits in that I can't contribute towards them while I am able to do so. 

 

 

If you pay taxes you very much do contribute towards them.

[i8hibsh]

Nothing is free as long as you pay taxes for the love of actual ****.

Edited November 22, 2022 by i8hibsh

[i8hibsh]

 

We foot the bill and the SNP take full credit. It is how they roll.

[Lord Montpelier]

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

If you pay taxes you very much do contribute towards them.

Amazed that people don't comprehend this. 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Amazed that people don't comprehend this. 

 

 

The same people that go and lap up Black Friday 'bargains' thinking they get the deal of the century.

[manaliveits105]

Right your on the list 

[i8hibsh]

You have to be hard of thinking on a quite staggering level to believe that education, healthcare etc are free.

 

The same monumental morons that think water is free.

[Dazo]

11 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Nothing is free as long as you pay taxes for the love of actual ****.

Rules out a lot of the snp support to be fair. 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

Right your on the list 

 

 

I never look at that and not piss myself laughing.

 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Rules out a lot of the snp support to be fair. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

42 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

I avoid this thread like the plague but recently seen the front cover of the new manifesto from the Führer on Scotland's 'new' case for 'Independence' and it sums it all up.  It really is her show and her country in her eyes.  She takes up approx 40% of the entire cover.  Just her posing and smiling.

 

 

 

Every publication by the SNP seems to just be one big Sturgeon photo shoot.  I have never seen the like before.  As it stands a 'Yes' vote is for Sturgeon and not Scotland.

 

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to put her centre stage on the front cover of such an important publication.  The only face of such an important matter for this country should be the countries own face and not hers.  I mean, surely a picture of Scotland would look better here than her mug.

 

I'm very much in the 'No' camp but being objective, the contrast between The ALBA campaign and SNPs is staggering.  All I see from ALBA's literature and publications are the St Andrew's flag and writing - no attention seeking from anyone.  It is clear that Salmond has no thirst for control or power, he just wants what it says on the tin.  Sturgeon however wants to rule, it is her show and everything must be done on her terms.  

 

 

 

 

It’s a cult . All cults need / have a 

“ charismatic “ leader , a “great “orator who gets their membership wetting their knickers / y fronts/ and what ever Non binary / trans wear ! She fits the bill . But bear in mind just because she’s a good orator it doesn’t mean whatever she says Is of any importance , but the flock Lapp it up . 

[The Mighty Thor]

Aye Aye......

 

someone must have flashed the 'bat signal' of idiocy. 

 

They're crawling out the woodwork this morning, the idiot's idiot, the weathervane, the economically illiterate they're all here.

 

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It’s a cult . All cults need / have a 

“ charismatic “ leader , a “great “orator who gets their membership wetting their knickers / y fronts/ and what ever Non binary / trans wear ! She fits the bill . But bear in mind just because she’s a good orator it doesn’t mean whatever she says Is of any importance , but the flock Lapp it up . 

 

 

Very much.

 

 

I totally get people's desire to leave the United Kingdom, it is not for me but I get we all see things differently.  What I do not get is how people can't see Sturgeon for what she is.  They seem to actively become SS Troopers as soon as anyone dares to criticise her.

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

18 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

If you pay taxes you very much do contribute towards them.

 

Would rather my taxes went towards reducing waiting times for cancer patients or some other important andnpotentially life-saving stuff, tbh.

 

Some mug punter dripping with cash getting his persian rugs for brussel sprout doesn't sit well with me.

[i8hibsh]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye Aye......

 

someone must have flashed the 'bat signal' of idiocy. 

 

They're crawling out the woodwork this morning, the idiot's idiot, the weathervane, the economically illiterate they're all here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because they don't believe that things are not free?

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Would rather my taxes went towards reducing waiting times for cancer patients or some other important andnpotentially life-saving stuff, tbh.

 

Some mug punter dripping with cash getting his persian rugs for brussel sprout doesn't sit well with me.

 

 

I object to how 99% of my taxes are spent.

 

I want them being spent only in Britian and on Britain citizens and as a priority those who have been dealt a tough hand and those who through no fault of their own are playing with a shitty hand now.

 

I object to funding 4 star lifestyles to people who are fresh of a boat on the coast of Kent who have no business whatsoever being here.  Who seem to get priority VIP treatment the second they arrive.  Who are living better lives than many British people.

 

I object to my money going to the Zelensky offshore fund, I object to paying foreign aid to countries who can afford their own space programs and I object to funding a net zero fantasy.

 

I want every penny to be spent on those that need it the most in our country.  I want more money funding our police, more jails, better schools and better hospitals.

 

I don't just blame Scot Gov for this I blame Westminster equally.  the priorities are nothing short of a disgrace when it comes to the allocation of our hard earned pounds.

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Because they don't believe that things are not free?

Do you actually go around thinking that the majority of the population, or indeed just SNP supporters, think that prescriptions or education are actually free? 

 

Free prescriptions is the general term used whereas you're not physically handing money over at the point of receipt or point of use. Same with education, or the police or Fire service. 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Do you actually go around thinking that the majority of the population, or indeed just SNP supporters, think that prescriptions or education are actually free? 

 

Free prescriptions is the general term used whereas you're not physically handing money over at the point of receipt or point of use. Same with education, or the police or Fire service. 

 

 

 

 

Why use the term? It is used to con and deceive.

 

I only ever seem to hear the SNP and their voters use the term.

[Lord Montpelier]

39 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Look around the world of UK politics (or indeed World politics) and there's a dearth of any kind of talent in any of the parties.

 

I don't buy the trope that they're all as bad as each other. They're not. There's a broad spectrum from the genuinely inept to the downright crooked. 

 

You'll get a 4th option which might align to your politics as the Tories will implode and from that will be born two 'Tory' parties, the one nationers and then the ERG led fascist division of empire 2.0 dreamers. 

 

You could even argue there's two already as there is literally nothing between the Tories and Keith's Tory light party. 

Yep. And a massive dearth in talent in the SNP. The transport secretary for example was teaching social studies in Fife only a few years ago. Hardly experienced or qualified for the job by anyone's standard, and it shows.  But she will nod in the right places for wee Nicky so qualifies for the role.

 

My only ask is a government that creates wealth in society, which everyone can access if they are motivated to do so (and government need to create the conditions to do this) , helps the genuinely needy and provides a safety net for those who find hard times. Surplus can then be invested in better infrastructure, green policies etc. But wealth creates wealth, and private enterprise plays a massive part in this. The SNP seem to have very little interest in promoting that so we'll continue to be downtrodden under their 'leadership'. 

[The Mighty Thor]

9 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Why use the term? It is used to con and deceive.

 

I only ever seem to hear the SNP and their voters use the term.

Because when I walk into the pharmacy I hand over no cash, ergo to me in that moment, it's a 'free' prescription. 

 

It's not that difficult a concept. 

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Because when I walk into the pharmacy I hand over no cash, ergo to me in that moment, it's a 'free' prescription. 

 

It's not that difficult a concept. 

If you don't pay any taxes, then yes I agree to you its free. 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Because when I walk into the pharmacy I hand over no cash, ergo to me in that moment, it's a 'free' prescription. 

 

It's not that difficult a concept. 

 

 

It really is.  You pre paid it the last time your employer gave you a bunch of money for your labour.

 

You can go into a car showroom and walk out with a car without the cost of that car being handed over at the time - it doesn't make it free. 

 

 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

10 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Yep. And a massive dearth in talent in the SNP. The transport secretary for example was teaching social studies in Fife only a few years ago. Hardly experienced or qualified for the job by anyone's standard, and it shows.  But she will nod in the right places for wee Nicky so qualifies for the role.

 

My only ask is a government that creates wealth in society, which everyone can access if they are motivated to do so (and government need to create the conditions to do this) , helps the genuinely needy and provides a safety net for those who find hard times. Surplus can then be invested in better infrastructure, green policies etc. But wealth creates wealth, and private enterprise plays a massive part in this. The SNP seem to have very little interest in promoting that so we'll continue to be downtrodden under their 'leadership'. 

Is that a unique situation to the SNP parliamentarians or indeed UK Ministers?  very, very few of them have trained for their 'brief'.

 

Tell me, which of the parties you can vote for in the Scottish or UK elections has or is providing those conditions?

 

Labour? They're going to carry on with Brexit - 4% off GDP and a vastly reduced workforce pool. 

 

Tories? They're going to carry on with Brexit - 4% off GDP and a vastly reduced workforce pool.

 

Oh hang on they're both the same.

 

The Tories have also left the UK with a structural debt burden that will cost us £100 billion in interest repayments this year. That's money straight out the economy. 

 

So Red or Blue?

[i8hibsh]

The term "free" is used as one big giant con.

 

"Kids go free" - no they ****ing don't.  The cost is just factored into the adult price.

 

In the case of the SNP this is no exception.  They use the term in almost every speech they make.  This is to brainwash the young into thinking this is the 'nice party' and those with little means to think they can get more in life.  In reality the adults/workers just pay more for it.

 

Nothing is free.....someone.....somewhere is footing the bill.

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Prescriptions are not free. Just because you don't pay over the counter or at source they are not free. 

 

Sure, (too) many people don't pay for them but the tax paying public foot the bill as always. The SNP just love throwing the "free" word around to make them look good.

 

 

Here is an example : 

 

Shavone and Gary have 4 children . Both of them are “ currently “ unable to work . Both get ESA , let’s say Shavone is in the 

“ work related activity group “ she will get £77 per week . Gary is on the “ support group “ so he gets £117.60 per week .   Shavone gets £308 per month . Gary gets £470.40 per month . 
 

Since they are in Scotland they will get £25 for each child , ever week . So that’s 

£400 per month .( child payment ) 

 

They will also get £87.20 per month child benefit for their first child and get £41.10 each month for each child . That’s £123.10 . 
 

They will get their rent and council tax paid . Maybe a minimum payment to council tax . 
 

so in total They would get around 

£1388.55 per month . Plus free prescriptions, health , dental , bus travel , school clothing , school meals , not taking into account of one of the children maybe had a disability then this total can be either £100 more or £ 600 .
 

 

I’ve used this as an example but it’s fairly accurate . What I would like to know is

can a family of 6 people live on £350 per  week ? I honestly don’t know . It’s a genuine question as I don’t have a family. 

[Lord Montpelier]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Is that a unique situation to the SNP parliamentarians or indeed UK Ministers?  very, very few of them have trained for their 'brief'.

 

Tell me, which of the parties you can vote for in the Scottish or UK elections has or is providing those conditions?

 

Labour? They're going to carry on with Brexit - 4% off GDP and a vastly reduced workforce pool. 

 

Tories? They're going to carry on with Brexit - 4% off GDP and a vastly reduced workforce pool.

 

Oh hang on they're both the same.

 

The Tories have also left the UK with a structural debt burden that will cost us £100 billion in interest repayments this year. That's money straight out the economy. 

 

So Red or Blue?

I'd probably not vote at this point. I see myself as Scottish, British and European and its tough to see anyone who truly represents me. 

 

Probably red if I had to. Definitely not Green Tartan . 

 

I do agree on your point on ministers. For the most part they are just career politicians. The SNP though do keep telling me they govern Scotland, which is where I live so they are first in line for criticism. 

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Right your on the list 

❤️

[Jeffros Furios]

29 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

The term "free" is used as one big giant con.

 

"Kids go free" - no they ****ing don't.  The cost is just factored into the adult price.

 

In the case of the SNP this is no exception.  They use the term in almost every speech they make.  This is to brainwash the young into thinking this is the 'nice party' and those with little means to think they can get more in life.  In reality the adults/workers just pay more for it.

 

Nothing is free.....someone.....somewhere is footing the bill.

Freedom isn't free .

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Freedom isn't free .

 

 

Freedom doesn't exist.

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

It's very cute btw how you, MT and Roxy jump in to defend each other and (failing) nationalist ideals

Says the the latest member of the SNP bad tag team...

[Jeffros Furios]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Freedom doesn't exist.

Team America will beg to differ. 

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Says the the latest member of the SNP bad tag team...

In case you've not noticed, half of Scotland have either been on strike recently or are going on strike  . Its hardly a ringing endorsement of government. 

[pablo]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I will repeat ad nauseum. Saying the Scottish NHS is performing better than all other UK countries is like bragging about being 4th bottom in the Scottish second division. Its **** all to write home about.

 

We also pay more in taxes, so it bloody well should be. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

In case you've not noticed, half of Scotland have either been on strike recently or are going on strike  . Its hardly a ringing endorsement of government. 

For someone who projects pro union tendencies, you have a planet sized blind spot for the ineptitude of Westminster cabal & that people going on/threatening strike action isn't limited to Scotland while carrying out your crusade against us Bravehearts and those of a pro-independence view.!

[The Mighty Thor]

39 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I'd probably not vote at this point. I see myself as Scottish, British and European and its tough to see anyone who truly represents me. 

 

Probably red if I had to. Definitely not Green Tartan . 

 

I do agree on your point on ministers. For the most part they are just career politicians. The SNP though do keep telling me they govern Scotland, which is where I live so they are first in line for criticism. 

I can see how you'd feel politically homeless. None of the parties will represent you if you're Scottish/British/European in that order. The reds and the blues don't want you to be 2 of the 3 so i'm afraid you're a bit fecked.

 

You seem smart to enough to appreciate that while you live in Scotland, and the SG are first in line for your criticism, you must surely appreciate that the SG are very limited as to what they can do. They don't have the full powers and are effectively governing with one hand tied behind their back.   

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

We also pay more in taxes, so it bloody well should be. 

Ah that old disingenuous chestnut.

 

Did you see Jezza ****'s tax proposals last week?

 

Scotland will look like a tax haven in comparison. Maybe the boys that moved to Berwick after Kwarteng's shambles will be moving back?

 

 

[pablo]

12 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah that old disingenuous chestnut.

 

Did you see Jezza ****'s tax proposals last week?

 

Scotland will look like a tax haven in comparison. Maybe the boys that moved to Berwick after Kwarteng's shambles will be moving back?

 

 

 

Scotland should be creative with tax now, more than ever. She should be undercutting Jezza's tax proposals and attracting high earners from elsewhere in the UK to Scotland.

 

Wonder how that would go down?