Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Shanks said no]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I’d imagine that in some parts of Sturgeon’s constituency, 8 or so years is enough time for the feral kids to start breeding.

 

Youngest in world gave birth aged five years, seven months, and 21 days.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina#:~:text=Lina Marcela Medina de Jurado,seven months%2C and 21 days.

 

Youngest in UK 11 years old, conceived when she was 10

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

So the 2 SNP 'heavyweights' lied then. 

No one lied. If you think they lied then you’ve no idea how basic politics works. 
 

So how do we vote on this? 

[AlimOzturk]

“Once in a generation” well there is already another generation of voters who are now being told they don’t have the democratic right to choose their own governance. What is a generation in the political world, who gets to decide that?

 

Simply put if there is a mandate the Scottish people get to decide the fate of our country nobody else. If we keep voting in successive independence supporting governments then how the **** can they deny us the right?

 

**** them and their section 30. 

[pablo]

Pennies dropping all over the place now.

 

No mandate, a minority view and no legal route to deliver a referendum.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

Jonesy at it again…ripping into yes leaning posters at every turn, weejys etc…inventing swing and miss terms like the “hilarious” field jock but…

Hes genuinely undecided tho🤪😂

Turn it in. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by jack D and coke

[AlimOzturk]

Just now, pablo said:

Pennies dropping all over the place now.

 

No mandate, a minority view and no legal route to deliver a referendum.

 

 

No mandate? A minority view?  Don’t talk shite. There is a legal route to a referendum and if Johnson and his cronies want to deny that then Scotland will just declare independence. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

England has 533 MP’s, mostly concentrated around the SEc or something and we have 59?

 

I’m up for that type of democracy said no one ever. 

It’s only going to get worse as well. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

No mandate? A minority view?  Don’t talk shite. There is a legal route to a referendum and if Johnson and his cronies want to deny that then Scotland will just declare independence. 

I hope they deny it. 
Get that big bag of chips on the shoulders again. Wind us right up

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

“Once in a generation” well there is already another generation of voters who are now being told they don’t have the democratic right to choose their own governance. What is a generation in the political world, who gets to decide that?

 

Simply put if there is a mandate the Scottish people get to decide the fate of our country nobody else. If we keep voting in successive independence supporting governments then how the **** can they deny us the right?

 

**** them and their section 30. 

Correct. Scottish people are also sovereign! Creating laws to bypass our right. Westminster is full of crooks.

[Space Mackerel]

9 minutes ago, jonesy said:

The lot of them.

Why do you bother getting involved in politics? Take up a hobby and forget about it all? Do you some good. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

“Once in a generation” well there is already another generation of voters who are now being told they don’t have the democratic right to choose their own governance. What is a generation in the political world, who gets to decide that?

 

Simply put if there is a mandate the Scottish people get to decide the fate of our country nobody else. If we keep voting in successive independence supporting governments then how the **** can they deny us the right?

 

**** them and their section 30. 

Well said. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Sure you were. 
 

I’m just pointing out that you are an ideological nationalist while a small proportion of our population who label others traitors and hate the English - xenophobes with little other than chips on their shoulder and grease in their arteries - will be voting yes just like you and possibly me.

 

We were talking about whether the guy's a unionist or not, I'm differentiating his from another type of unionism.

 

But hey I'm not trying to convince you, it was just a conversation, he doesn't reckon he's a unionist, I reckon he is.

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

So the 2 SNP 'heavyweights' lied then. 

They said it was a once in a generation chance to be independent, they were wrong. 

[pablo]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

No mandate? A minority view?  Don’t talk shite. There is a legal route to a referendum and if Johnson and his cronies want to deny that then Scotland will just declare independence. 

 

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

 

They've been lying to you.

 

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Jonesy at it again…ripping into yes leaning posters at every turn, weejys etc…inventing hit and miss terms like the “hilarious” field jock but…

Hes genuinely undecided tho🤪😂

Turn it in. 

Tuning into GBeeebies for sho.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Why do you bother getting involved in politics? Take up a hobby and forget about it all? Do you some good. 

Maybe he’s thinking of his kids futures ? 

Edited June 14, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Maybe he’s thinking of his kids futures ? 

You decided to chip in and take a stab into the dark to his inner consciousness? 
 

Tell me more!

Edited June 14, 2022 by Space Mackerel

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Maybe he’s thinking of his kids futures ? 

No issues with that. It’s this “undecided” line he’s taking that im kinda doubting. 
I haven’t seen Jonesy even once take issue with anyone who trolls the Yes side. 
He trolls it relentlessly. 
I don’t lie and say I might vote No.

Theres not a chance on this earth. 

 

[AlimOzturk]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I hope they deny it. 
Get that big bag of chips on the shoulders again. Wind us right up

 

 

The walls have already fallen and Johnson has already destroyed the better together narrative. Denying a section 30 is all they have left and the desperate attempts to deny Scotland their democratic will

just further ignite the independence cause. 
 

Funny thing is it will the so called unionist party who will be the chief antagonist in breaking the union. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

No issues with that. It’s this “undecided” line he’s taking that im kinda doubting. 
I haven’t seen Jonesy even once take issue with anyone who trolls the Yes side. 
He trolls it relentlessly. 
I don’t lie and say I might vote No.

Theres not a chance on this earth. 

 

 The CONservative party yesterday were saying millennials should cancel Netflix, avocados and coffee to buy a house. 

[Scotfotbawfan]

2 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I’m neither here nor there right now, still a massive amount of stuff I’d need to read up on before I made a decision.

 

But with working people relying on foodbanks, millions of children living in poverty, and the rising price of fuel leading to some people genuinely not being able to afford to go to work, 

 

In a financial sense, can we actually be worse off than we are right now?

 

How many people do you think who use the food banks use through no fault of there own ?.  Granted I only know 2 people who have used this but the 2 of them put there money up there nose and don't care about keeping money for food because the options there to get free food.  I'd say a very high percentage of people using the food bank are taking advantage of it and it shouldn't be there for that.  I used to put a few things in when I shopped until someone I know said hel get the foodbank this week as he's spunked all his money while out at the weekend. If the same people are constantly using the food banks each week its money management they need aswell as food.  My mate had to go on universal credit for a few months over covid and as a single guy after the rent and council tax was paid, along with gas and electricity it left about £150 to survive for the month.  That isn't alot of money tbh but if I had to I could easily feed myself on what's left.  I wouldn't be going out anywhere for nights out etc but if there was enough left over for that then alot more would be on it.  If you have kids you get quite a bit but the single person doesn't get alot.

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 The CONservative party yesterday were saying millennials should cancel Netflix, avocados and coffee to buy a house. 

Yeah just need to save up the subs for a couple of centuries or something was it no?

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Tuning into GBeeebies for sho.

 

 

GBeebies genuinely makes me feel like im

watching actors pretending to do news. 
 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

You decided to chip in and take a stab into the dark to his inner consciousness? 
 

Tell me more!

I’ve been chipping in quite a lot ! I know he is thinking of the wider picture, the long term impact that Indy may bring hence my statement . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

No issues with that. It’s this “undecided” line he’s taking that im kinda doubting. 
I haven’t seen Jonesy even once take issue with anyone who trolls the Yes side. 
He trolls it relentlessly. 
I don’t lie and say I might vote No.

Theres not a chance on this earth. 

 

✋

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah just need to save up the subs for a couple of centuries or something was it no?

It was the baby boomers who enjoyed free movement around Europe and the biggest standard of living ever who told them to suck up never being able to afford a home.

 

I hope Boris Johnson deports these freeloaders to Rwanda too. Imagine being British and trying to break into the property market these days. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, jonesy said:

The Yes side need all the mockery that comes it’s way. They are generally well intentioned but often come out with stuff that doesn’t help their cause.
 

The No side make themselves look foolish based on the majority of their arguments alone.

 

Genuinely undecided, whether you doubt it or not, bud.

And the No side doesn’t? Have you been reading the ****ing drivel on here since NS announced she’s planning for it?

I can’t take you seriously with posts like that man. 

[Shooter McGavin]

21 minutes ago, Scotfotbawfan said:

 

How many people do you think who use the food banks use through no fault of there own ?.  Granted I only know 2 people who have used this but the 2 of them put there money up there nose and don't care about keeping money for food because the options there to get free food.  I'd say a very high percentage of people using the food bank are taking advantage of it and it shouldn't be there for that.  I used to put a few things in when I shopped until someone I know said hel get the foodbank this week as he's spunked all his money while out at the weekend. If the same people are constantly using the food banks each week its money management they need aswell as food.  My mate had to go on universal credit for a few months over covid and as a single guy after the rent and council tax was paid, along with gas and electricity it left about £150 to survive for the month.  That isn't alot of money tbh but if I had to I could easily feed myself on what's left.  I wouldn't be going out anywhere for nights out etc but if there was enough left over for that then alot more would be on it.  If you have kids you get quite a bit but the single person doesn't get alot.

I reckon the answer to your first question is scarily high, and with so many variable I doubt you’d be able to get an exact figure on that. Although to paint a picture, I’m sure you’re aware that hospitals are now setting up foodbanks for NHS staff?

 

As with the examples you’ve given, there will always be people out there to exploit a system, but to generalise everybody relying on foodbanks as being coke addicts, or bad at budgeting, would be utterly outrageous. But like you say, you only know two people in that scenario so it would be silly to form an entire opinion off the back of that. 
 

Also, the example you’ve given on your mate on universal credit, your point about £150-a-month leftover cash not being a lot is a bit of an understatement to say the least. Especially when at any moment a utility in your house can need repaired, unexpected costs etc. It’s a precarious situation to be in when something like a washing machine breaking can empty your bank account and leave you in dire straights.

 

Oh, and imagine having £150-a-month leftover on universal credit, and then seeing your energy bills and food shopping bills sky rocket to all-time highs in the space of a few months.

 

It’s easy to point the finger and go “That family doesn’t budget correctly!” or “That person on benefits spends it all on drink and drugs”

 

But the reality is that energy bills are through the roof, petrol is at all-time highs, food shopping is getting more and more expensive, inflation is rising and we’re staring a recession square in the face.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Shooter McGavin

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

44 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

What’s a political generation? You’re from NI aren’t you? According to the GFA it’s 7 years between refs.

 

Suppose that is a question in itself. A generation in normal parlance is 20-25 years.

 

As for the GFA that is one aspect that is yet to be tested and one of the arguments against holding an initial referendum is that it kicks off "neverendums" even if nothing changes.

 

I don't see any way Boris will play ball with this, although with any luck it won't be his decision anyway as he'll be defenestrated.

[jack D and coke]

23 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

The walls have already fallen and Johnson has already destroyed the better together narrative. Denying a section 30 is all they have left and the desperate attempts to deny Scotland their democratic will

just further ignite the independence cause. 
 

Funny thing is it will the so called unionist party who will be the chief antagonist in breaking the union. 

Amuses me that people who value the union believe attempting  to close it all down and ignore it will make it go away. 
It’s the fuel it needs. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by jack D and coke

[Ray Gin]

21 minutes ago, Scotfotbawfan said:

 

How many people do you think who use the food banks use through no fault of there own ?.  Granted I only know 2 people who have used this but the 2 of them put there money up there nose and don't care about keeping money for food because the options there to get free food.  I'd say a very high percentage of people using the food bank are taking advantage of it and it shouldn't be there for that.

 

Great of you to form this opinion on your extensive research of 2 people.

[Space Mackerel]

18 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Suppose that is a question in itself. A generation in normal parlance is 20-25 years.

 

As for the GFA that is one aspect that is yet to be tested and one of the arguments against holding an initial referendum is that it kicks off "neverendums" even if nothing changes.

 

I don't see any way Boris will play ball with this, although with any luck it won't be his decision anyway as he'll be defenestrated.

That’s ok for gravestones and DNA. What’s its relevance to political terminology?  

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

6 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

That’s ok for gravestones and DNA. What’s its relevance to political terminology?  

Well, as said above, it was used by the proponent of the 2014 referendum at the time. Therefore, it can naturally be pointed back at her.

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Well, as said above, it was used by the proponent of the 2014 referendum at the time. Therefore, it can naturally be pointed back at her.

Do you honestly believe that there’s some UK/Devolved gov law that says referendum can be run linked to to the average age of embryo becoming man here? 
 

We are are talking law here, not sound bites. 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

What would Scotland gain from being independent? 

 

What would Scotland lose from being independent? 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

Do you honestly believe that there’s some UK/Devolved gov law that says referendum can be run linked to to the average age of embryo becoming man here? 
 

We are are talking law here, not sound bites. 

I'm not saying there is any "law". It is political argument.

 

Even with the "generation" word being used, Westminster can turn around and say the 2019 Westminster election didn't produce a Nationalist majority in percentage vote (it did in seats) and the independence referendum is a reserved matter to Westminster. So my initial question stands assuming Westminster rejects what Sturgeon asks for. Why go ahead? It won't add any value. Would it not be better to build the case for the 2024 Westminster election and win over 50% of the vote and potentially all 59 seats? That way, the momentum would be unstoppable. Instead, if she goes ahead, she will be accused of wasting taxpayer's money on something equivalent to the Strathclyde water referendum.

 

 

[Lone Striker]

Bully-boy Salmond said something quite profound towards the end of the last campaign in a late attempt to swing things towards Yes - along the lines of  "becoming independent means that we'll only have ourselves to blame for difficulties  and problems"

 

While it was a true statement, it seemed an odd thing for a politician to admit.  Almost like he was dumbing down the reasons to a simple level for the benefit of folk that weren't engaged in political chat.

 

Given his criticism of Sturgeon for dithering, I wonder how long it will take the Ego  to muscle in on the action now that wee Paddy's  her new bestie.

 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

I can’t take you seriously when you use terms like Hoose Jock and Uncle Tam. Guess there isn’t a whole lot of seriousnessing going on ‘round these ‘ere parts. 
 

 

I use it predominantly to rip jimmys. 

Unlike your good self you’d never be in any doubt where I’m coming from☺️

[jack D and coke]

Just now, jonesy said:

*cough* KB rule 16 *cough* 😛 

 

 

*cough* yeah *cough cough* nobody *cough* does it 

No even you🤔

[Section Q]

On 15/06/2022 at 07:51, Space Mackerel said:

It was the baby boomers who enjoyed free movement around Europe and the biggest standard of living ever who told them to suck up never being able to afford a home.

 

I hope Boris Johnson deports these freeloaders to Rwanda too. Imagine being British and trying to break into the property market these days. 

Babt boomers seem to get blame for everything these days.

[JudyJudyJudy]

56 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Thanks man. I know what it was like to be an ardent yes voter, and how inconceivable it was that any true Scot could consider voting no. My own views have changed in that I no longer see Holyrood as a salvation. In fact, I just see more of the same, hence the hesitancy. Now, I just see a fair number of people desperate for something to change but without knowing what that change is likely to result in. It’s all very reminiscent of how people living in shitholes the length and breadth of England seemed to feel in the lead up to Brexit. 

I just don’t see it as any type of priority at the present time. In 2014 I got caught up in it all , like it really mattered . This time I couldn’t give a rats arse about it . No passion about the issue at all . 

[Lone Striker]

11 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

What would Scotland gain from being independent? 

 

What would Scotland lose from being independent? 

imo, the answer to both questions is the same - very little. 😎

 

 

[Scotfotbawfan]

54 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I reckon the answer to your first question is scarily high, and with so many variable I doubt you’d be able to get an exact figure on that. Although to paint a picture, I’m sure you’re aware that hospitals are now setting up foodbanks for NHS staff?

 

As with the examples you’ve given, there will always be people out there to exploit a system, but to generalise everybody relying on foodbanks as being coke addicts, or bad at budgeting, would be utterly outrageous. But like you say, you only know two people in that scenario so it would be silly to form an entire opinion off the back of that. 
 

Also, the example you’ve given on your mate on universal credit, your point about £150-a-month leftover cash not being a lot is a bit of an understatement to say the least. Especially when at any moment a utility in your house can need repaired, unexpected costs etc. It’s a precarious situation to be in when something like a washing machine breaking can empty your bank account and leave you in dire straights.

 

Oh, and imagine having £150-a-month leftover on universal credit, and then seeing your energy bills and food shopping bills sky rocket to all-time highs in the space of a few months.

 

It’s easy to point the finger and go “That family doesn’t budget correctly!” or “That person on benefits spends it all on drink and drugs”

 

But the reality is that energy bills are through the roof, petrol is at all-time highs, food shopping is getting more and more expensive, inflation is rising and we’re staring a recession square in the face.

 

Single people on universal credit have next to nothing left after bills.  Unless you have kids it's a pittance.  However a single person could feed themselfs for £20 a week, trust me I've had to do it before.  It's not the best of food but itl feed you. I did say people with unexpected bills I can understand needing it but there's to many people using then for it just to be that.  No one in fulltime employment should ever find themselfs having to use a food bank. But wages will dictate some might if something pops up. I'd take money from the benifit fund and redirect it to people who are working but not making much.  Some people are better of financially on benifits than they are working.  That should never be the case.

[Ulysses]

30 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Do you honestly believe that there’s some UK/Devolved gov law that says referendum can be run linked to to the average age of embryo becoming man here? 
 

We are are talking law here, not sound bites. 

 

Good man, keep using that persuasive language there.  👍 

[1971fozzy]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Like it😃👌🏼

They already have raised taxes higher than England. My equivalent in the same company pays 1% less tax than me and he lives on wales. 
your seriously kidding yourself . She will absolutely rocket taxes. She doesn’t give a shit. And another thing , the next generation up here (yes our kids) will be paying it as well.  Kidding yourself on . It’ll be financial misery up here for the workers. Guarantee taxes will go up for everything - inheritance etc etc.  Folk and businesses will bolt eventually. In my opinion it will be a disaster and should be shelved until it’s the right time. It’s most certainly not the right time now and a waste of tax payers money trying to flog this. Even if it goes through say 55-45 there will be a divide that will never be fixed in our population. Do the folk that vote no get a referendum again in 10 years ?

[Ulysses]

29 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

What would Scotland gain from being independent? 

 

What would Scotland lose from being independent? 

 

Independence in one case.  Reliance on someone else in the other.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Ulysses
Answered the wrong post.

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Independence in one case.  Reliance on someone else in the other.

 

Reliance on someone else would be a negative for some people, but a positive for others.  The UK has bigger debt, for example, but it also has bigger scope for raising revenue. 

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

They already have raised taxes higher than England. My equivalent in the same company pays 1% less tax than me and he lives on wales. 
your seriously kidding yourself . She will absolutely rocket taxes. She doesn’t give a shit. And another thing , the next generation up here (yes our kids) will be paying it as well.  Kidding yourself on . It’ll be financial misery up here for the workers. Guarantee taxes will go up for everything - inheritance etc etc.  Folk and businesses will bolt eventually. In my opinion it will be a disaster and should be shelved until it’s the right time. It’s most certainly not the right time now and a waste of tax payers money trying to flog this. Even if it goes through say 55-45 there will be a divide that will never be fixed in our population. Do the folk that vote no get a referendum again in 10 years ?

People on less income pay less. Add in lower council tax bills, no water meter id say you probably pay slightly less but I don’t know for sure I suppose. 
On your last point if some party starts a movement to rejoin the union then why would I have an issue about that? 
Why don’t you try sell it to me in its current form?

Edited June 14, 2022 by jack D and coke

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

They already have raised taxes higher than England. My equivalent in the same company pays 1% less tax than me and he lives on wales. 
your seriously kidding yourself . She will absolutely rocket taxes. She doesn’t give a shit. And another thing , the next generation up here (yes our kids) will be paying it as well.  Kidding yourself on . It’ll be financial misery up here for the workers. Guarantee taxes will go up for everything - inheritance etc etc.  Folk and businesses will bolt eventually. In my opinion it will be a disaster and should be shelved until it’s the right time. It’s most certainly not the right time now and a waste of tax payers money trying to flog this. Even if it goes through say 55-45 there will be a divide that will never be fixed in our population. Do the folk that vote no get a referendum again in 10 years ?

If they vote in governments that have another vote as a policy then they will have a mandate to do so, that’s democracy. 

[jack D and coke]

Can I just throw in the point that say for arguments sake we left the union and this rejoining nonsense. Does the rUK then get any say or it’s all about us again? We’ve just decided we tried leaving them thought na that’s no very good we liked it better so we’re coming back now?