Should Scotland be an independent country?

[JudyJudyJudy]

58 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Cal Mac has always been state owned you utter dafty. 🤣🤣🤣

 

Your another one hurling insults to anyone with an opposing view . Best to change tack , you’ll need to try and convince quite a few people to vote yes for Indy to Succeed . So respect and manners may help in this endeavour . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

The thread is kicking off but I need my kip

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

5 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Once one has power it’s hard to let go off . This was well in evidence with NS during covid . Dread to think what an Indy Scotland would be like with her and her party at the helm . 

 

 

No matter how much she rattles your cage, there is no evidence to suggest that she doesn't respect the principles of democracy. While that corrupt twat in No.10 continues to debase the office and stick two fingers up to democracy on a daily basis. 

As long as there is a risk of etonian gangsters exercising power to further enrich their paymasters independence will always be worth pursuing. 

 

[Serge]

Why can't people see that once we are independent, the political landscape will change and the SNP will become less relevant. Not voting for Indy because you can't stand Nicola is short sighted in the extreme.

[pablo]

8 hours ago, kila said:

 

That way of thinking is to believe we're too small to be anything better.

 

We already are better than England with some policies, such as allowing anyone to attend university not just the rich, and to take care of our sick with free prescriptions. We can fund these ourselves and it isn't a unique thing for a European country of our size either.

 

I think Scotland is more aligned with European policies, England becoming much more like the US. Would you rather live in the EU or US when it comes to food quality, healthcare and education?

 

 

You're more likely to attend University from a poorer background in England than you are in Scotland. 

 

The SG has ditched their own target of closing the attainment gap.

 

Go check it out,  we're not better at all.

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, Serge said:

Why can't people see that once we are independent, the political landscape will change and the SNP will become less relevant. Not voting for Indy because you can't stand Nicola is short sighted in the extreme.

 

Nicola Sturgeon was asked and is on record for this before the last election. 

 

A member of the public asked her who should they vote for, if they wanted stability in local government during the pandemic but didn't support Independence?

 

Sturgeon answered that they should vote SNP.

 

You can't take the vote for the SNP and equate it to support for secession even. 

[pablo]

56 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

No matter how much she rattles your cage, there is no evidence to suggest that she doesn't respect the principles of democracy. While that corrupt twat in No.10 continues to debase the office and stick two fingers up to democracy on a daily basis. 

As long as there is a risk of etonian gangsters exercising power to further enrich their paymasters independence will always be worth pursuing. 

 

 

She didn't respect the result of either the 2014 or 2016 referendum results as she was on the losing side each time.

 

[Angry Haggis]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

No matter how much she rattles your cage, there is no evidence to suggest that she doesn't respect the principles of democracy. While that corrupt twat in No.10 continues to debase the office and stick two fingers up to democracy on a daily basis. 

As long as there is a risk of etonian gangsters exercising power to further enrich their paymasters independence will always be worth pursuing. 

 

This. 

[manaliveits105]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

She didn't respect the result of either the 2014 or 2016 referendum results as she was on the losing side each time.

 

and after being chosen as first minister refused to move in to Bute House but travels back and forward to the Weeg (Greens will be livid)

- total disrespect for Edinburgh and a liar with a short recall span to boot 

[Unknown user]

40 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

and after being chosen as first minister refused to move in to Bute House but travels back and forward to the Weeg (Greens will be livid)

- total disrespect for Edinburgh and a liar with a short recall span to boot 

 

 **** me, "and she lives in Glasgow, the cow"

 

So ****ing what?

 

Anyway, this isn't about your dislike of Sturgeon and her total disrespect for Edinburgh ( seriously, **** me!)

 

The question is "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

Edited June 16, 2022 by Smithee

[Sarah O]

10 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

And I'll vote no unless the independence movement produce a concrete vision of their future.

As to who is right, well that's a question and a half 

I'll vote no if the unionists can produce a concrete vision of their future. 

 

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

I would vote for Indy if I thought it would benefit myself and my family. The picture painted is one of a social utopia with high taxes. Can't see any reward so it's a firm no from me.

[Konrad von Carstein]

14 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I would vote for Indy if I thought it would benefit myself and my family. The picture painted is one of a social utopia with high taxes. Can't see any reward so it's a firm no from me.

You should change your user name to Rip van Winkle as you seem to have been asleep for a while.

 

SNP possible high taxes baaad, Westminster actual high taxes

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

She didn't respect the result of either the 2014 or 2016 referendum results as she was on the losing side each time.

 

How so? Has she called for armed insurrection or civil disobedience? 

Or has she exercised her democratic right to campaign for a different outcome?  Both of which were largely influenced by lies as it happens. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

No matter how much she rattles your cage, there is no evidence to suggest that she doesn't respect the principles of democracy. While that corrupt twat in No.10 continues to debase the office and stick two fingers up to democracy on a daily basis. 

As long as there is a risk of etonian gangsters exercising power to further enrich their paymasters independence will always be worth pursuing. 

 

We had a vote in 2014 . That’s not that Long ago . The polls say there is no significant appetite for a new vote . However she was voted in on a mandate to go for an Indy vote so bring it on 

2 hours ago, pablo said:

 

You're more likely to attend University from a poorer background in England than you are in Scotland. 

 

The SG has ditched their own target of closing the attainment gap.

 

Go check it out,  we're not better at all.

True 

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

 **** me, "and she lives in Glasgow, the cow"

 

So ****ing what?

 

Anyway, this isn't about your dislike of Sturgeon and her total disrespect for Edinburgh ( seriously, **** me!)

 

The question is "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

Lol I  agree . I couldn’t care where she lives actually 

[Pans Jambo]

39 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I would vote for Indy if I thought it would benefit myself and my family. The picture painted is one of a social utopia with high taxes. Can't see any reward so it's a firm no from me.

Noted.

 

Bye.

[Japan Jambo]

12 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

They need to convince enough people that an independent Scotland is a better option than being a UK region.

 

I'll be voting yes because I want the Scottish electorate to have a government it can hold to account every time.

 

"People should not fear their government, governments should fear their people."

 

Westminster doesn't fear us, they're not even interested.

 

You have a two governments you can hold to account, one of which you give a complete pass too regardless of their faults. Your views on the other are very clear 🙂 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

You have a two governments you can hold to account, one of which you give a complete pass too regardless of their faults. Your views on the other are very clear 🙂 

 

Holyrood isn't a government, it's a devolved administration, no more.

 

And Westminster aren't accountable to Scotland, we're irrelevant to them.

[Ainsley Harriott]

30 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

You should change your user name to Rip van Winkle as you seem to have been asleep for a while.

 

SNP possible high taxes baaad, Westminster actual high taxes

 

The SNP have imposed higher taxes than the rest of the UK for the past 5 years so not sure what your point is.

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

 

She didn't respect the result of either the 2014 or 2016 referendum results as she was on the losing side each time.

 

 

Really? We just cracked on and declared independence anyway and stayed in the EU, did we?

[Japan Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Holyrood isn't a government, it's a devolved administration, no more.

 

And Westminster aren't accountable to Scotland, we're irrelevant to them.

 

so I shouldn't trust a word of this independence white paper issued by the Scottish government as it's based on a lie? 

 

https://www.gov.scot/

 

 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

so I shouldn't trust a word of this independence white paper issued by the Scottish government as it's based on a lie? 

 

https://www.gov.scot/

 

 

 

You do what you like bud, I just want a government that's accountable to the Scottish electorate.

[Konrad von Carstein]

12 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

The SNP have imposed higher taxes than the rest of the UK for the past 5 years so not sure what your point is.

Higher tax is not paid by the majority of people and the rest pay an amount that can be easily afforded.

My point is you posted about higher taxes when the alleged party of lower tax has increased the tax burden on ordinary working people across the "UK" to the highest level in decades.

 

You knew that though

 

[AlimOzturk]

All I know is it can’t be any ****ing worse than the utter shit show that is playing out in Westminster.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

All I know is it can’t be any ****ing worse than the utter shit show that is playing out in Westminster.

And if it got that way, we could at least vote them out.

[Taffin]

Tories in Scotland should be delighted at the prospect. They can vote for a proper conservative party, not the imposters in Westminster who are now a party of high public spending, high government intervention and high taxation.

 

Fortunately they'll lose, but surely no true conservative is into the current version in UK government.

[Ainsley Harriott]

6 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Higher tax is not paid by the majority of people and the rest pay an amount that can be easily afforded.

My point is you posted about higher taxes when the alleged party of lower tax has increased the tax burden on ordinary working people across the "UK" to the highest level in decades.

 

You knew that though

 

Not true anyone earning more than 27k pays more than they would in England. I doubt many full-time workers earn less than that. Someone hitting the 40% tax bracket at anything over 42k is an absolute sham.

[GBJambo]

8 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Not true anyone earning more than 27k pays more than they would in England. I doubt many full-time workers earn less than that. Someone hitting the 40% tax bracket at anything over 42k is an absolute sham.

Exactly the majority pay higher taxes in Scotland.  And it will only get higher in an independent Scotland 
 

Edited June 16, 2022 by GBJambo

[Pans Jambo]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Tories in Scotland should be delighted at the prospect. They can vote for a proper conservative party, not the imposters in Westminster who are now a party of high public spending, high government intervention and high taxation.

 

Fortunately they'll lose, but surely no true conservative is into the current version in UK government.

The tories in Scotland 🤮 dont even like the tories in Westminster. The tories in Westminster completely ignore the tories in Scotland until theres a GE.

 

Complete lap dugs.

[Ray Gin]

8 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Not true anyone earning more than 27k pays more than they would in England. I doubt many full-time workers earn less than that.

 

The median pay in Scotland is £26,007. For Full-time only it is £31,672. This would suggest that there are rather a lot of full-time earners who get less than £27k around Scotland, especially if you take Edinburgh and Glasgow out of the equation.

 

 

 

[pablo]

Collecting less tax than we would have if it hadn't been devolved. Useless.

[Ray Gin]

15 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Not true anyone earning more than 27k pays more than they would in England. I doubt many full-time workers earn less than that. Someone hitting the 40% tax bracket at anything over 42k is an absolute sham.

 

It's £43,663 in Scotland.  

 

Do you think it's right for someone on £13k to pay the same tax rate as someone on £48k?

Edited June 16, 2022 by Ray Gin

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

anyone earning more than 27k pays more than they would in England. I doubt many full-time workers earn less than that. 

 

And that just shows how far removed from reality you are.

 

Someone earning minimum wage and working 35 hours a week is earning a top line of £17,290 (£9.50 x 35 x 52) 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

And that just shows how far removed from reality you are.

 

Someone earning minimum wage and working 35 hours a week is earning a top line of £17,290 (£9.50 x 35 x 52) 

 

An out of touch Tory, who'd have thought it?

 

[SectionDJambo]

11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

The tories in Scotland 🤮 dont even like the tories in Westminster. The tories in Westminster completely ignore the tories in Scotland until theres a GE.

 

Complete lap dugs.

Lightweights, was it not, according to Rees Mogg?

[Japan Jambo]

20 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Not true anyone earning more than 27k pays more than they would in England. I doubt many full-time workers earn less than that. Someone hitting the 40% tax bracket at anything over 42k is an absolute sham.

 

This may be helpful;

 

https://www.avtrinity.com/uk-average-salary

[Pans Jambo]

26 minutes ago, GBJambo said:

Exactly the majority pay higher taxes in Scotland.  And it will only get higher in an independent Scotland 
 

Nope,

 

62% of working Scots will pay less tax in 2022/23 that they would in 2021/22.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-income-tax-distributional-analysis-2022-2023/

55% of tax payers in Scotland pay LESS than rUK with 35% only paying slightly more. The top 10% earners pay more but hey, they can afford to

 

Then there's Council Tax.

Band D average in Scotland - £1308

Band D average in rUK - £1898

So an annual saving on average of £590 in Scotland.

 

Water is £33 on average cheaper in Scotland.

 

Prescription charges are £9.39 each in England and Wales (free in Scotland).

 

So everything you said in your post above is utter shite!

 

Plus the drinking water in England tastes like cat piss!!!

 

Getting taxed more in Scotland is a unionist myth unless theyre on a higher salary and if they are, why should they not pay a little more to mitigate the shite that Westminster foists upon the poorest in our society (Bedroom Tax, School meals, Prescriptions etc.)?

 

Unless your a tory of course...

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Pans Jambo

[AlimOzturk]

26 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Tories in Scotland should be delighted at the prospect. They can vote for a proper conservative party, not the imposters in Westminster who are now a party of high public spending, high government intervention and high taxation.

 

Fortunately they'll lose, but surely no true conservative is into the current version in UK government.

This is it. I have no problem with conservative views even though I disagree with them. Been a lot of good decent tories (say that with gritted teeth)

 

True conservatives must surely be distraught at the shit show that is the current tory party. it isn’t conservatives it is a combination of the BNP and UKIP. 

[GBJambo]

5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Nope,

 

62% of working Scots will pay less tax in 2022/23 that they would in 2021/22.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-income-tax-distributional-analysis-2022-2023/

55% of tax payers in Scotland pay LESS than rUK with 35% only paying slightly more. The top 10% earners pay more but hey, they can afford to

 

Then there's Council Tax.

Band D average in Scotland - £1308

Band D average in rUK - £1898

So an annual saving on average of £590 in Scotland.

 

Water is £33 on average cheaper in Scotland.

 

Prescription charges are £9.39 each in England and Wales (free in Scotland).

 

So everything you said in your post above is utter shite!

 

Plus the drinking water in England tastes like cat piss!!!

 

Getting taxed more in Scotland is a unionist myth unless theyre on a higher salary and if they are, why should they not pay a little more to mitigate the shite that Westminster foists upon the poorest in our society (Bedroom Tax, School meals, Prescriptions etc.)?

 

Unless your a tory of course...

 

No Tory

 

So in an independent Scotland you think the average person is going to be financially better off than they are now? 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, GBJambo said:

No Tory

 

So in an independent Scotland you think the average person is going to be financially better off than they are now? 

I do yes. As a nation and an individual. 

[GBJambo]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

I do yes. As a nation and an individual. 

Fair enough 

 

This is what it will come down to whether Scotland becomes independent.
Theres too many questions that are still unanswered . And seems the majority of the population are unsure too which means they will vote the status quo 

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, GBJambo said:

Fair enough 

 

This is what it will come down to whether Scotland becomes independent.
Theres too many questions that are still unanswered . And seems the majority of the population are unsure too which means they will vote the status quo 

Questions like "why is Scotland the most taxed part of the UK"?

 

Which we both know is a loadapish.

 

Stop telling lies, you sound like a tory!

[Ainsley Harriott]

8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I do yes. As a nation and an individual. 

Brilliant 🤣🤣

[GBJambo]

2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Questions like "why is Scotland the most taxed part of the UK"?

 

Which we both know is a loadapish.

 

Stop telling lies, you sound like a tory!

No 🤦🏻
 

Whether they will be financially better off in an independent Scotland, currency etc 

[GBJambo]

What’s the ratio of people working to how many are on benefits ? 

[Jeffros Furios]

47 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The median pay in Scotland is £26,007. For Full-time only it is £31,672. This would suggest that there are rather a lot of full-time earners who get less than £27k around Scotland, especially if you take Edinburgh and Glasgow out of the equation.

 

 

 

I'd imagine that most supermarket and shop workers earn no more than £11 an hour 

And it's 20% that pay the higher tax .

Wages for most are pretty shite .

[Ainsley Harriott]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It's £43,663 in Scotland.  

 

Do you think it's right for someone on £13k to pay the same tax rate as someone on £48k?

Yes I do. Someone on 48k isn't a high earner

[rudi must stay]

Would cause problems, it can not be changed geographically 

[i wish jj was my dad]

5 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

We had a vote in 2014 . That’s not that Long ago . The polls say there is no significant appetite for a new vote . However she was voted in on a mandate to go for an Indy vote so bring it on 

True 

 

We had a vote in 2014 where one of the biggest cards played was scotland had to vote yes to stay in the eu. That had quite an influence on the result. 

We had another vote where the results were nfluenced by promises of £300m per week going back to the NHS. That led to Brexit. Quite a material change of circumstances. 

 

So whether you like her or not and for me the jury is out, it's kinda hard not to see why she would like to use democratic process to revisit these issues.  That's not control-freakery or clinging onto power. She wants to right what she legitimately sees as wrongs.

 

Whether she is going about it in the best way is another story. 

 

[PortyJambo]

4 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

This is it. I have no problem with conservative views even though I disagree with them. Been a lot of good decent tories (say that with gritted teeth)

 

True conservatives must surely be distraught at the shit show that is the current tory party. it isn’t conservatives it is a combination of the BNP and UKIP. 

I've met a few current and ex-Tory MSP/MP's, and although I disagree with their party and their views, many are on the whole decent people. David McLetchie, Annabel Goldie and John Lamont are (or were in the case of McLetchie) all decent, normal, people to speak to. It's funny now to think McLetchie resigned as leader due to claiming taxi fares from Parliament to his lawyer work's office, imagine what they must think of Boris not resigning, and never will, over anything that he gets up to down south.