Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Ainsley Harriott]

3 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Just curios, what’s worse than not being able to afford food, or to go to work?

 

Are we talking a mad max here?

Pffft even worse. Be eating dead rats

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Just curios, what’s worse than not being able to afford food, or to go to work?

 

Are we talking a mad max here?

more people who can’t afford food because jobs will be lost

 

less money to help families becuase the subsidy (which Nicola sturgeon acknowledges we rely on) will not be available. 
 

less spending on infrastructure, services 

 

and definitely less of the “giveaways” that the SNP have cleverly used to secure votes.

[Braminho]

Absolutely yes

[Taffin]

All of these challenges are great and valid...if we weren't already hurtling to total crap as we are. Better to take it I to our own hands imo.

 

I say 'our', I live in England but I would move back in the event of independence.

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, GBJambo said:

Too Many questions still unanswered. 

I kind of agree tbh. But the British govt made it clear last time though there would no negotiations whatsoever before the vote so as to keep you in fear of it happening. 
Just that makes me question whether we’re quite as skint as they’d like us to believe. 

[Jeffros Furios]

I"M GOING TO LEAVE  

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

All of these challenges are great and valid...if we weren't already hurtling to total crap as we are. Better to take it I to our own hands imo.

 

I say 'our', I live in England but I would move back in the event of independence.

A couple of mates from oz have told me the same. They’re home if it happens. 
There’s some here who want to leave too which I find disappointing but if they’re going to hang around and be bitter about it all if it happened then they need to go imo. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

I kind of agree tbh. But the British govt made it clear last time though there would no negotiations whatsoever before the vote so as to keep you in fear of it happening. 
Just that makes me question whether we’re quite as skint as they’d like us to believe. 

Again - the economics are pretty clear.  If you look at our biggest industries FS - hugely dependent on the U.K. market, Oil and Gas - no where near what it was and no long term future, tourism - depends on what happens with the border.  We have no manufacturing of much note left.

 

It could be fixed, over time Scotlands economy could be reshaped.  But it will depend on many things and even the  most optimistic would be measuring the timescale in decades not years. 
 

brexit was like cutting off a leg!! Independence will be like cutting off the other one.  

 

 

[GBJambo]

It would be good if some sort of cost analysis breakdown of how it’s going to look financially so we can make an informed choice 

[Ainsley Harriott]

12 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

more people who can’t afford food because jobs will be lost

 

less money to help families becuase the subsidy (which Nicola sturgeon acknowledges we rely on) will not be available. 
 

less spending on infrastructure, services 

 

and definitely less of the “giveaways” that the SNP have cleverly used to secure votes.

Free university education, bus passes, baby boxes, free prescriptions. I would actually have had some respect for them if they just focused spending on core health care and school services.

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

A couple of mates from oz have told me the same. They’re home if it happens. 
There’s some here who want to leave too which I find disappointing but if they’re going to hang around and be bitter about it all if it happened then they need to go imo. 

out of interest - hypothetically what would you do when economic reality bites.  
 

Take responsibility for your vote and stick around! Or turn and run? 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Free university education, bus passes, baby boxes, free prescriptions. I would actually have had some respect for them if they just focused spending on core health care and school services.

doesn’t win enough votes though

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, GBJambo said:

It would be good if some sort of cost analysis breakdown of how it’s going to look financially so we can make an informed choice 

The data is available my friend. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, GBJambo said:

It would be good if some sort of cost analysis breakdown of how it’s going to look financially so we can make an informed choice 

Impossible. Both Yes and No sides could put out some sort of prospectus but neither will get it all their own way. 
Pragmatism must come into play. You’d hope…

[Lord Montpelier]

17 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

more people who can’t afford food because jobs will be lost

 

less money to help families becuase the subsidy (which Nicola sturgeon acknowledges we rely on) will not be available. 
 

less spending on infrastructure, services 

 

and definitely less of the “giveaways” that the SNP have cleverly used to secure votes.

Careful not to use too much common sense

 

If indy happens my money is on those that antagonised for it going into hiding as their pie in the sky plans destroy the economy completely. 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

out of interest - hypothetically what would you do when economic reality bites.  
 

Take responsibility for your vote and stick around! Or turn and run? 

Where am I going? Where are you going? 
I would not leave. 

[Shooter McGavin]

16 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

more people who can’t afford food because jobs will be lost

 

less money to help families becuase the subsidy (which Nicola sturgeon acknowledges we rely on) will not be available. 
 

less spending on infrastructure, services 

 

and definitely less of the “giveaways” that the SNP have cleverly used to secure votes.

You’ve just described the last 10 years under a Tory government 😂

 

But aye like I said, I’ll have to do as much reading as possible before I came to any kind of conclusion.

 

Tbh, I don’t think anybody will really know what’s best, such a massive situation with far too many variables.

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Again - the economics are pretty clear.  If you look at our biggest industries FS - hugely dependent on the U.K. market, Oil and Gas - no where near what it was and no long term future, tourism - depends on what happens with the border.  We have no manufacturing of much note left.

 

It could be fixed, over time Scotlands economy could be reshaped.  But it will depend on many things and even the  most optimistic would be measuring the timescale in decades not years. 
 

brexit was like cutting off a leg!! Independence will be like cutting off the other one.  

 

 

What about a Scotland in the EU? The FS industry not like that?

 

[Lord Montpelier]

18 minutes ago, Taffin said:

All of these challenges are great and valid...if we weren't already hurtling to total crap as we are. Better to take it I to our own hands imo.

 

I say 'our', I live in England but I would move back in the event of independence.

Let me know if it happens if you live somewhere decent we can swap houses. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Where am I going? Where are you going? 
I would not leave. 

I’ve been considering a permanent move abroad for a long time.  The only thing that keep me here is family.  
 

I will prioritise my kids in the event of independence. No future here

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

You’ve just described the last 10 years under a Tory government 😂

 

But aye like I said, I’ll have to do as much reading as possible before I came to any kind of conclusion.

 

Tbh, I don’t think anybody will really know what’s best, such a massive situation with far too many variables.

Good idea, don’t listen to the same old tired lies and excuses that have all been debunked since 2014. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ve been considering a permanent move abroad for a long time.  The only thing that keep me here is family.  
 

I will prioritise my kids in the event of independence. No future here

I guess that’s for you to decide then. 
If all goes good you coming back? 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

What about a Scotland in the EU? The FS industry not like that?

 

Why would companies already settled relocate to Scotland? RBR, BOS, Phoenix. Tesco, Sainsburys would re-locate south of the border to be closer to their primary market.  I don’t know what happens to Aberdeen Asset (not sure what they are called now) but they are heavily dependent on the London exchange 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Again - the economics are pretty clear.  If you look at our biggest industries FS - hugely dependent on the U.K. market, Oil and Gas - no where near what it was and no long term future, tourism - depends on what happens with the border.  We have no manufacturing of much note left.

 

It could be fixed, over time Scotlands economy could be reshaped.  But it will depend on many things and even the  most optimistic would be measuring the timescale in decades not years. 
 

brexit was like cutting off a leg!! Independence will be like cutting off the other one.  

 

 

Yes Brexit was the nail in the coffin for the UK and also Scottish Indy really. I also think covid has made people more risk adverse and therefore less likely to make the " leap into the unknown". 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

I guess that’s for you to decide then. 
If all goes good you coming back? 

I’m pretty sure I’d be dead before things work out better. My kids can make their own choices

[jack D and coke]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

I’m pretty sure I’d be dead before things work out better. My kids can make their own choices

 

 

[Unknown user]

55 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ll not a unionist or a nationalist , I’m absolutely against independence for the simple reason we will be massively worse off.

 

if presented with the same choice (and knowledge) in 1979 I’d overwhelming have voted for independence. But it’s too late. 
 

As an aside - im also massively against constitutional referendums full stop. They do nothing but sow division and unrest and leave large swathes of the population disenfranchised.  if anyone think they will “vote” to change someone’s nationality! To spilt families  And it will just be accepted gracefully. 
 

NI#2

 

You're a unionist.

There are 3 options;

1 unionism,

2 don't know,

3 independence

 

If you're massively against freedom for Scotland it means you're pro the union. Your reasons may be, in your view, pragmatic rather than ideological, but that just makes you a pragmatic unionist rather than an ideological one.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes Brexit was the nail in the coffin for the UK and also Scottish Indy really. I also think covid has made people more risk adverse and therefore less likely to make the " leap into the unknown". 

Made you less risk averse James? I haven’t moved an inch. 

[Unknown user]

40 minutes ago, Scotfotbawfan said:

 

The people who say we will tax the bigger companies like amazon etc are living in fantasy land.  The bigger companies tell the govermeant what to do,  they hold all the ace cards.  You don't like it ?. Right in that case we will take our company elsewhere along with the 500 jobs that you collect the tax from each month.  Big companies don't get bullied by govermeants to pay more as the end result the govermeant isn't going to win.

 

 

These companies are full of shit, Amazon make fortunes here, they need logistics here to do that, they're going nowhere. 

[Shooter McGavin]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Good idea, don’t listen to the same old tired lies and excuses that have all been debunked since 2014. 

To be honest, I think both sides have their sources of truly s*** information, and it’s getting harder and harder to try and find media outlets that present both arguments equally.

[Lord Montpelier]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're a unionist.

There are 3 options;

1 unionism,

2 don't know,

3 independence

 

If you're massively against freedom for Scotland it means you're pro the union. Your reasons may be, in your view, pragmatic rather than ideological, but that just makes you a pragmatic unionist rather than an ideological one.

Option 3 should really be 'nationalist / nationalism' on your list. 

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're a unionist.

There are 3 options;

1 unionism,

2 don't know,

3 independence

 

If you're massively against freedom for Scotland it means you're pro the union. Your reasons may be, in your view, pragmatic rather than ideological, but that just makes you a pragmatic unionist rather than an ideological one.

I consider myself a “me-ist” 😆 to my earlier point I don’t like the labels. 

[kingantti1874]

 

14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Good idea, don’t listen to the same old tired lies and excuses that have all been debunked since 2014. 

what’s been debunked? (By anyone of any note - not internet fantasists) 

[Ray Gin]

21 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Free university education, bus passes, baby boxes, free prescriptions. 

 

All excellent policies. 👌

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

To be honest, I think both sides have their sources of truly s*** information, and it’s getting harder and harder to try and find media outlets that present both arguments equally.

I’m biased obviously but do your research and there can only be one answer. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

I consider myself a “me-ist” 😆 to my earlier point I don’t like the labels. 

Then you're a me-ist unionist! You might not have the same reasoning as, say, the hun but you'll vote the same way.

[Shooter McGavin]

One thing I would say it try to avoid debates with people who would be considered extremely “pro-union” or “pro-independence”,

 

Cause these people are like dodgy salesmen, who have an answer for everything and don’t see a single flaw in their choice.

Doesn’t matter how many facts and figures you throw at these people they will not blink.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Shooter McGavin

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Smithee said:

Then you're a me-ist unionist! You might not have the same reasoning as, say, the hun but you'll vote the same way.

😂 Even a broken clock is right twice a day.  

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

what’s been debunked? (By anyone of any note - not internet fantasists) 

Everything you said so far, every single thing. 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

All excellent policies. 👌

and completely unaffordable sadly. All paid for with borrowed money, and most likely the first ones to go.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Made you less risk averse James? I haven’t moved an inch. 

I think Some people might be due to uncertainties like covid and or even Brexit 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Everything you said so far, every single thing. 

That’s just an emotional post. We both know there isn’t any real substance to that point. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

All excellent policies. 👌

Really? Whilst our schools and NHS have failed. Priorities no?

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're a unionist.

There are 3 options;

1 unionism,

2 don't know,

3 independence

 

If you're massively against freedom for Scotland it means you're pro the union. Your reasons may be, in your view, pragmatic rather than ideological, but that just makes you a pragmatic unionist rather than an ideological one.

Can you be a pragmatic unionist but also an ideological Indy supporter ? It’s about deciding which is the better 

[Shooter McGavin]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I think Some people might be due to uncertainties like covid and or even Brexit 

I reckon brexit will certainly spook a considerable amount of people

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I think Some people might be due to uncertainties like covid and or even Brexit 

The response to the covid situation was enough to show many that we are better pooling our economic and intellectual resources rather than go our separate ways (not for the want of trying by Elsie I should add)

[Shooter McGavin]

Just now, jonesy said:

Good point.

 

Its unreal how any deviation from ultra-belief in the ‘cause’ on either side is tantamount to being a die-hard for the other. They are like OF fans with their thinking. It got boring in 2014 and I can’t be arsed with it all again. There are some pretty massive voids in these people’s lives.

Agree with that mate.

 

Both sides utterly convinced their argument is flawless, and they have all the correct answers. 
 

They don’t realise that it’s not really that simple.

 

As with a lot of things, the truth will lay somewhere in between.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I reckon brexit will certainly spook a considerable amount of people

I think so too. You can be your cotton socks  it’ll be used by the No campaign as one of their main arguments to stay . 

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

The response to the covid situation was enough to show many that we are better pooling our economic and intellectual resources rather than go our separate ways (not for the want of trying by Elsie I should add)

I think so . 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I think Some people might be due to uncertainties like covid and or even Brexit 

Possibly…I know a couple of people who were No last time who want Scotland back in the EU who’ve said to me they’re yes this time. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Not in the wee clique of ultra nationalists on here, you Uncle Jock Tam Hoose trayter Tory.

Sadly that’s very true .