Won the Championship by 12 Points (title updated)

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

I wasn’t a fan of the repetitive nature of the 10 team league but, like the league we are presently in, it was incredibly competitive. 
The 10 team league gave us our last non OF winner and was also a period of “success “ for the national team and clubs playing in Europe. 

The top ten league had a lot of merit imo but the price of relegation from it is too severe. 25% of possible candidates ( assuming the gruesome twosome never finish below 8th ) was too high an attrition rate. The disparity in income caused by subsequent tv deals makes this even worse now. 

[DETTY29]

9 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

I wasn’t a fan of the repetitive nature of the 10 team league but, like the league we are presently in, it was incredibly competitive. 
The 10 team league gave us our last non OF winner and was also a period of “success “ for the national team and clubs playing in Europe. 

That is interesting.

 

Our last 'challenge' was in a 10 team league too in 97-98.  And probably the only 'sustained' challenge outside of Aberdeen last day in 90 or 91 since RanTic didn't last win league.

 

If we aren't 'scared' of relegation and in the event of relegation it looks like our 'core' base is now potentially at least double of where we're 25+ years ago, is 10 the way to go?

 

 

[Jarhead]

6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

That is interesting.

 

Our last 'challenge' was in a 10 team league too in 97-98.  And probably the only 'sustained' challenge outside of Aberdeen last day in 90 or 91 since RanTic didn't last win league.

 

If we aren't 'scared' of relegation and in the event of relegation it looks like our 'core' base is now potentially at least double of where we're 25+ years ago, is 10 the way to go?

 

 

I genuinely can’t decide which league structure would be best.  
All of the options have pros and cons. 
I didn’t like the repetitive nature of 10 but as 4 of our 9 competitors would be Hibs, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen then, almost literally, every 2nd game was a big one. 
As Dave pointed out though, you only needed one poor season to be relegated. 
The fact that there have only been 2 winners since 1985 will need to be addressed eventually though and the real question is will that happen with a larger or smaller league. 

[DETTY29]

14 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

I genuinely can’t decide which league structure would be best.  
All of the options have pros and cons. 
I didn’t like the repetitive nature of 10 but as 4 of our 9 competitors would be Hibs, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen then, almost literally, every 2nd game was a big one. 
As Dave pointed out though, you only needed one poor season to be relegated. 
The fact that there have only been 2 winners since 1985 will need to be addressed eventually though and the real question is will that happen with a larger or smaller league. 

Play offs are here to stay I'd imagine so I can't see Prem clubs voting to  go back to 10.

 

And cash wise the Prem clubs say they can't fund a 14 team top league.  Even AB prefers 12  as long as we are in it.

 

Going to need some out of the box thinking.  Good job Scottish football is so well placed in this regard.

Edited March 11, 2021 by DETTY29

[jr ewing]

Bottom team could be in a play off rather than automatically relegated. 

[DETTY29]

8 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Bottom team could be in a play off rather than automatically relegated. 

IMO there needs to be an automatic promotion place so wouldn't work.

Edited March 11, 2021 by DETTY29

[Rogue Daddy]

16 or 18 team league for me. Only 8 points separate 2nd top and 2nd bottom in the Championship.... and you can't tell me that they're any worse than the bottom 4 or 5 in the prem.

It should also be 2 professional leagues - a top league of 16/18, and a championship of 10?... and you only gain access by being 'professional' in every sense. Stadia capacity minimum, grass pitch etc. Beneath them - regionals/pyramid system.

[Jarhead]

14 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Play offs are here to stay I'd imagine so I can't see Prem clubs voting to  go back to 10.

 

And cash wise the Prem clubs say they can't fund a 14 team top league.  Even AB prefers 12  as long as we are in it.

 

Going to need some out of the box thinking.  Good job Scottish football is so well placed in this regard.

I fear that you are right and that, no matter what the fans want, the clubs will stick with what they see as the least worst option of 12. 

[Rogue Daddy]

22 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Play offs are here to stay I'd imagine so I can't see Prem clubs voting to  go back to 10.

 

And cash wise the Prem clubs say they can't fund a 14 team top league.  Even AB prefers 12  as long as we are in it.

 

Going to need some out of the box thinking.  Good job Scottish football is so well placed in this regard.

 

...this isn't an excuse for prem clubs. It also annoys me when I hear that clubs 'need' their 3 games against the uglies. No they don't! It's just plain greed. Everyone, so far, has survived a season with no fans through the gates.. granted, there's been a bit of financial help along the way, but we're all still here. Championship clubs don't get the benefit of the OF gates and neither do leagues 1 and 2. In the premiership, the sheep, the hobos, and us (next season) don't rely on the OF games... so this only leaves a handful of clubs who 'depend' on the OF gates? I'm sick and tired of THIS being an excuse for NOT changing the league set-up and also driving the SKY millions(!?) for TV.

The play offs are here to stay as you say, it creates a bit of drama... and I'm fine with it. However, a change of league set-up is long overdue... and I don't buy the excuse clowns (chairmen) give with regards to OF gates. These teams get decent gates against us, the sheep, and the hobos... and probably their nearest 'rivals' derbies etc. If these teams 'rely' so heavily on OF gates, they shouldn't be anywhere near a professional league.

Rant over (nothing was directed at you, DETTY, btw!).. agree with what you're saying.

[DETTY29]

5 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

 

...this isn't an excuse for prem clubs. It also annoys me when I hear that clubs 'need' their 3 games against the uglies. No they don't! It's just plain greed. Everyone, so far, has survived a season with no fans through the gates.. granted, there's been a bit of financial help along the way, but we're all still here. Championship clubs don't get the benefit of the OF gates and neither do leagues 1 and 2. In the premiership, the sheep, the hobos, and us (next season) don't rely on the OF games... so this only leaves a handful of clubs who 'depend' on the OF gates? I'm sick and tired of THIS being an excuse for NOT changing the league set-up and also driving the SKY millions(!?) for TV.

The play offs are here to stay as you say, it creates a bit of drama... and I'm fine with it. However, a change of league set-up is long overdue... and I don't buy the excuse clowns (chairmen) give with regards to OF gates. These teams get decent gates against us, the sheep, and the hobos... and probably their nearest 'rivals' derbies etc. If these teams 'rely' so heavily on OF gates, they shouldn't be anywhere near a professional league.

Rant over (nothing was directed at you, DETTY, btw!).. agree with what you're saying.

Haha.

 

With no clubs 'dying' due to the pandemic, indeed the money side of the argument not to change, diminishes.

Edited March 11, 2021 by DETTY29

[Hagar the Horrible]

32 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

I wasn’t a fan of the repetitive nature of the 10 team league but, like the league we are presently in, it was incredibly competitive. 
The 10 team league gave us our last non OF winner and was also a period of “success “ for the national team and clubs playing in Europe. 

See I have a different take, the 18 team league used only 2 points for a win, we have 3 now,  There was an initial surge because there was change, but crowds did start to dwindle, until the Souness revolution late 80’s, before then we had more tickets sold for the ICT game BCD than the OF were getting early 80’s.  In one season we played Morton 8 times and trust me none of them were good, and there was games against PT and DU when we had less than 3k at a cold damp Tynecastle.

 

The Souness revolution would have had the same effect on an 18/20 team league as it did on the 10 team league.  But let’s look at what happens to a league when you play each other more than twice. In all leagues in England and indeed the rest of the world where the same model applies, the top half of the table all have a plus GD in descending order(more or less) and the bottom half have a negative GD in increasing order.  Since the creation of a top tier with 10 and now 12 clubs, on average only the top 4 clubs (One Third, but closer to 3.5 30%) have a positive GD, which equates every below 4th place has had games where they have had more doings than wins.  There was times when the 3rd team in the league has qualified for Europe and still had a negative GD,  How the bleeding hell is that possible and worse how is that entertaining. This season QoS has a -7 GD and lost just as many games as they have won in 4th, and what is highly unusual this season is ICT are second bottom and they are on a +2!  Aberdeen in 4th with a +2

 

So now we are in a setup where on average over the 4 leagues, about 12/14 teams out of 42 have a winning season as the say in American Football 2 thirds of clubs have a losing season,  and with 4 leagues  that equated to (you have guessed it) 4 champions, 3 relegated, 4 other clubs facing relegation and  3 in a play-off (4 including non-league)

 

You could argue with an 18 game set up that there is more dead rubbers, not evident in a post Souness era set up in the EFL.  But even now you could argue all games the likes of a St Johnstone play are all dead rubbers, not going to be in a relegation battle nor compete for a Euro slot.

So by NOT playing the OF 4 times a team like us or the Sheep won’t play against them for 24 points, it is near impossible to get the better of them over 8 games, not so hard with only 4 and you should win your only home game against each of them, and then there is a 12 points on offer against other clubs.  This being the case you don’t have to compete financially with the OF, you just have to be better than everybody else and that is easier to do while NOT getting a total doing in 8 Games out of 38 compared to 4 in 36.

[May one-six]

1 hour ago, Jarhead said:

I genuinely can’t decide which league structure would be best.  
All of the options have pros and cons. 
I didn’t like the repetitive nature of 10 but as 4 of our 9 competitors would be Hibs, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen then, almost literally, every 2nd game was a big one. 
As Dave pointed out though, you only needed one poor season to be relegated. 
The fact that there have only been 2 winners since 1985 will need to be addressed eventually though and the real question is will that happen with a larger or smaller league. 

Are you sure about that? It's set up exactly the way the ugly sisters want it so why would they be interested in changing things?

[jr ewing]

18 hours ago, Fourcandles said:

The looks like Alloa will drop out of this league, when you look at the rest of the teams above them whoever comes down, Dross county, Hamilton or Kilmarnock will not have a easy time trying to get back up again.

 

.

Reconstruction will appeal to them now I'll bet. 

[Jarhead]

2 hours ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

See I have a different take, the 18 team league used only 2 points for a win, we have 3 now,  There was an initial surge because there was change, but crowds did start to dwindle, until the Souness revolution late 80’s, before then we had more tickets sold for the ICT game BCD than the OF were getting early 80’s.  In one season we played Morton 8 times and trust me none of them were good, and there was games against PT and DU when we had less than 3k at a cold damp Tynecastle.

 

The Souness revolution would have had the same effect on an 18/20 team league as it did on the 10 team league.  But let’s look at what happens to a league when you play each other more than twice. In all leagues in England and indeed the rest of the world where the same model applies, the top half of the table all have a plus GD in descending order(more or less) and the bottom half have a negative GD in increasing order.  Since the creation of a top tier with 10 and now 12 clubs, on average only the top 4 clubs (One Third, but closer to 3.5 30%) have a positive GD, which equates every below 4th place has had games where they have had more doings than wins.  There was times when the 3rd team in the league has qualified for Europe and still had a negative GD,  How the bleeding hell is that possible and worse how is that entertaining. This season QoS has a -7 GD and lost just as many games as they have won in 4th, and what is highly unusual this season is ICT are second bottom and they are on a +2!  Aberdeen in 4th with a +2

 

So now we are in a setup where on average over the 4 leagues, about 12/14 teams out of 42 have a winning season as the say in American Football 2 thirds of clubs have a losing season,  and with 4 leagues  that equated to (you have guessed it) 4 champions, 3 relegated, 4 other clubs facing relegation and  3 in a play-off (4 including non-league)

 

You could argue with an 18 game set up that there is more dead rubbers, not evident in a post Souness era set up in the EFL.  But even now you could argue all games the likes of a St Johnstone play are all dead rubbers, not going to be in a relegation battle nor compete for a Euro slot.

So by NOT playing the OF 4 times a team like us or the Sheep won’t play against them for 24 points, it is near impossible to get the better of them over 8 games, not so hard with only 4 and you should win your only home game against each of them, and then there is a 12 points on offer against other clubs.  This being the case you don’t have to compete financially with the OF, you just have to be better than everybody else and that is easier to do while NOT getting a total doing in 8 Games out of 38 compared to 4 in 36.

Some very good points there and I agree about how difficult it is to win the league when you play the OF 8 times. 1998 being a valid example. 
It’s also worth adding that Aberdeen and Dundee United won a 10 team league pre Bosman. 

[Jarhead]

1 hour ago, May one-six said:

Are you sure about that? It's set up exactly the way the ugly sisters want it so why would they be interested in changing things?

Haha, no I’m not!

SPFL are only interested in the Sky money. 
Sky are only interested in 4 OF games and a helicopter Sunday. 
36 years since a non OF team won the league. I don’t think change will be any time soon but surely it’s got to reach a point where everyone else says enough is enough. 50, 75, 100 years?

[Boris]

16 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

36 years since a non OF team won the league. I don’t think change will be any time soon but surely it’s got to reach a point where everyone else says enough is enough. 50, 75, 100 years?

 

TBF, it's always been a two horse race.  Look at the league champions since the year dot and it's a familiar pattern.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_football_champions

 

 

[sandylejambo]

My problem with Neilson has always been the pedestrian football, its not ok to play the same way week after week when its not working and the players look disinterested. I've lost count of the times I've shouted at players on the telly "I'll get him you just stand there looking important"  If as Neilson's says he's not sending them out there to play at a slow pace, why is it happening week after week? it's his job to get them motivated and if he's not doing that, he's not doing his job. getting promoted should be a given considering how much its costing for the team we've got, getting out fought by players who want to win is there for all to see in certain games.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

34 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

Haha, no I’m not!

SPFL are only interested in the Sky money. 
Sky are only interested in 4 OF games and a helicopter Sunday. 
36 years since a non OF team won the league. I don’t think change will be any time soon but surely it’s got to reach a point where everyone else says enough is enough. 50, 75, 100 years?

 

And for that reason Scottish football will die. 

 

In another 4/5 generations more folk will be following epl teams, if they aren't already. 

 

Scottish football is dieing by 1000 cuts but no leadership has the foresight or will to change it. 

 

 

[Jarhead]

28 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

TBF, it's always been a two horse race.  Look at the league champions since the year dot and it's a familiar pattern.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_football_champions

 

 

A fair point Borisimo but in the last 36 years the gap has increased. 
In that time only ourselves and Aberdeen have ended the season 3 times anywhere close to them. 
Post Bosman and champions league the idea that, never mind ourselves, a Kilmarnock or Dundee winning the league now seems impossible. 

[Diego10]

4 hours ago, Jarhead said:

I wasn’t a fan of the repetitive nature of the 10 team league but, like the league we are presently in, it was incredibly competitive. 
The 10 team league gave us our last non OF winner and was also a period of “success “ for the national team and clubs playing in Europe. 

The ten team league has given us 4 non OF winners in 47 years, none in the last 36. 3 of them were Fergie's Aberdeen.

 

The old 18 team league was stopped because Celtic had won 9 in a row, but there had been 4 different winners in the 6 years immediately preceding the 9iar.

 

Anything which gives you 8 games a season against the two biggest clubs in the country favours this with the biggest squads and most money more than playing each team twice does. 

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

A fair point Borisimo but in the last 36 years the gap has increased. 
In that time only ourselves and Aberdeen have ended the season 3 times anywhere close to them. 
Post Bosman and champions league the idea that, never mind ourselves, a Kilmarnock or Dundee winning the league now seems impossible. 

 

Yeah, that's fair comment too.

[Diego10]

Deleted

Edited March 11, 2021 by Diego10
Double post

[wattie exploited]

On 10/03/2021 at 21:24, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Have said this many times, if Neilson was anyone else (ie not someone some people seem to think is Levein's lovechild) fans would be praising him as a new manager settling in and doing what needs to be done this season, with a bonus derby win and creditable cup final performance thrown in. 

 

The high scoring results wins would be celebrated, the draws would be tolerated and the odd defeat would be considered inevitable over the course of a season. We'd all be saying "It's going well, but we could play better and need strengthening in defence, etc. Let's see what he can do after summer with fans back, things back to normal and against teams that don't park the bus."

you might have a point here 

[Pasquale for King]

We have struggled in about half of our games this season haven’t we or did I have a really long bad dream?

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/win-ratio-shows-hearts-are-the-most-dominant-championship-team-in-years-despite-criticism-3161518

[Pasquale for King]

11 hours ago, Diego10 said:

The ten team league has given us 4 non OF winners in 47 years, none in the last 36. 3 of them were Fergie's Aberdeen.

 

The old 18 team league was stopped because Celtic had won 9 in a row, but there had been 4 different winners in the 6 years immediately preceding the 9iar.

 

Anything which gives you 8 games a season against the two biggest clubs in the country favours this with the biggest squads and most money more than playing each team twice does. 

Leicester winning the league would back that up, along with them being one of six teams this century to win it. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

We have struggled in about half of our games this season haven’t we or did I have a really long bad dream?

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/win-ratio-shows-hearts-are-the-most-dominant-championship-team-in-years-despite-criticism-3161518

I think certain fans just set expectations too high of the football they were demanding because they were hoping Stendel would eventually have got us there, given time, maybe given pre season.
 

Folk lost sight of the fact that keeping him would’ve been a risk, the club had went down. His results had fallen well short of what we’d hoped. We did not have the luxury of “time” this season, we had 27 games, the job was first & foremost, turn Hearts immediately from a team that won 12.9% last season to a team that wins 70%. On a skinny budget as well, that was the remit, there was no time available to be given. So credit goes to Robbie Neilson, his staff and the players for delivering that this season. And Budge actually gets a bit of credit as well which will leave some “fans” devastated: unlike the Cathro and Levein situations, where they were given pre seasons when they should have been sacked, she’s directly learned from that, and took decisive action to make a change in manager for pre season. It’s been vindicated by the league table.
 

Each performance in isolation you can unpick the flaws, you’d think we should have done a lot better with our possesion and we shouldn’t have made defensive mistakes. But the win percentage starts to tip the scales. 

[jager man]

What about 16 team league. Play home and away (30 games) then split into top 4 Home and away. Middle 6 home and away and bottom 6 home and away. 2 automatically from Premier. No play off to save you going down. 1 automatically up from champ and play offs for other place. It's not ideal but should please the ugly sisters as their not losing their head to heads also mid table teams will have added security of more teams so less risk of relegation. Championship will support also. 

[The Modern Leper]

45 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think certain fans just set expectations too high of the football they were demanding because they were hoping Stendel would eventually have got us there, given time, maybe given pre season.
 

Folk lost sight of the fact that keeping him would’ve been a risk, the club had went down. His results had fallen well short of what we’d hoped. We did not have the luxury of “time” this season, we had 27 games, the job was first & foremost, turn Hearts immediately from a team that won 12.9% last season to a team that wins 70%. On a skinny budget as well, that was the remit, there was no time available to be given. So credit goes to Robbie Neilson, his staff and the players for delivering that this season. And Budge actually gets a bit of credit as well which will leave some “fans” devastated: unlike the Cathro and Levein situations, where they were given pre seasons when they should have been sacked, she’s directly learned from that, and took decisive action to make a change in manager for pre season. It’s been vindicated by the league table.
 

Each performance in isolation you can unpick the flaws, you’d think we should have done a lot better with our possesion and we shouldn’t have made defensive mistakes. But the win percentage starts to tip the scales. 

Great post 👍🏻

[kingantti1874]

20 minutes ago, jager man said:

What about 16 team league. Play home and away (30 games) then split into top 4 Home and away. Middle 6 home and away and bottom 6 home and away. 2 automatically from Premier. No play off to save you going down. 1 automatically up from champ and play offs for other place. It's not ideal but should please the ugly sisters as their not losing their head to heads also mid table teams will have added security of more teams so less risk of relegation. Championship will support also. 

16 team league

2 rounds of fixtures and split 8 and 8 (30 games)

 

1 round of fixtures and split into 4*4 (7 games ) 

 

then

 

top 4 shoot out for the title (uglies happy) 

5-8 shoot out for the final Eurospots  13-16 shoot out to avoid relegation and the playoffs (40 games in total for all clubs) . Only 9-12 is a little boring, but no worse than today. Suggest prize money adjusted to make it interesting 

 

More variation, fewer meaningless fixtures than today, more key points in the season, A couple of extra fixtures to help the finances out. Less chance of relegation to keep the diddy clubs happy. 
 

 

 

 

[Tatlock]

No chance of a challenge to old firm unless we only play them once home and away. That is never going to happen with TV calling the tune. A wage cap would even up the playing field, but also never going to happen. Somehow stop OF hoovering up best talent from teams in the same league except at the end of the current season. Media companies to employ non OF affiliated ‘pundits’. Stop calling The Rangers ‘Steven Gerard’s Rangers’ it makes football sound like a franchise or worse like a copycat club (which they are to be honest). More like les mcewans bay city rollers, same name but even more shit than original.

oops a bit of a tangent there😬 however, a level playing field makes a challenge possible therefore teams have a sporting chance. In Scotland the premier league has been engineered to suit OF and no other team. Voting rights on everything is skewed towards OF. News is OF or no news. We’re all howling at the moon and we all try and talk up our chances but the reality is apart from a few scraps and the knock out competitions we are all doomed to be extras in the SPFL old firm movie.

[Rogue Daddy]

16 minutes ago, Tatlock said:

No chance of a challenge to old firm unless we only play them once home and away. That is never going to happen with TV calling the tune. A wage cap would even up the playing field, but also never going to happen. Somehow stop OF hoovering up best talent from teams in the same league except at the end of the current season. Media companies to employ non OF affiliated ‘pundits’. Stop calling The Rangers ‘Steven Gerard’s Rangers’ it makes football sound like a franchise or worse like a copycat club (which they are to be honest). More like les mcewans bay city rollers, same name but even more shit than original.

oops a bit of a tangent there😬 however, a level playing field makes a challenge possible therefore teams have a sporting chance. In Scotland the premier league has been engineered to suit OF and no other team. Voting rights on everything is skewed towards OF. News is OF or no news. We’re all howling at the moon and we all try and talk up our chances but the reality is apart from a few scraps and the knock out competitions we are all doomed to be extras in the SPFL old firm movie.

 

... a level playing field - just think about that. A league set up, as it is now, the only change being 'a level playing field'. Everything fairly distributed between all clubs. It would make a HUGE difference. How pathetic that this one small thing - that should be a given and taken as granted in any sport - is so telling about how Scottish football is run. Absolutely pathetic.

[Rogue Daddy]

Here's a closer look at how a season in the spfl benefits the uglies - 

 

The League -

OF fixtures 'hand-picked' to ensure that they play each other twice at home, and twice away (most other teams are skewed to some degree - eg. 3 home ties against a team and 1 away).

All officials are of west coast origin (IIRC)

 

TV/MEDIA - 

SKY deal is reliant on 4 OF fixtures every season ie. SKY dictate our league structure to a degree, to the benefit of the OF.

OF have the lions share of televised games ensuring they get higher TV revenue monies and more exposure.

TV & media ensure exposure to the OF is always front and center on TV/web/press related media. Massive bias towards the two especially from Glasgow based media.

 

SPFL Board - 

Voting rights/parameters skewed in OF favour which makes it easier for them to 'vote down' anything that isn't of benefit to them.

They have a board member 'swapsies' agreement whereby the spfl board always has an OF member present.

Prominent high-profile positions in the spfl/sfa are generally filled with OF supporting 'people'.

 

..there are probably lots more, but a level playing field it definitely ain't. No one else is allowed to win this league.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think certain fans just set expectations too high of the football they were demanding because they were hoping Stendel would eventually have got us there, given time, maybe given pre season.
 

Folk lost sight of the fact that keeping him would’ve been a risk, the club had went down. His results had fallen well short of what we’d hoped. We did not have the luxury of “time” this season, we had 27 games, the job was first & foremost, turn Hearts immediately from a team that won 12.9% last season to a team that wins 70%. On a skinny budget as well, that was the remit, there was no time available to be given. So credit goes to Robbie Neilson, his staff and the players for delivering that this season. And Budge actually gets a bit of credit as well which will leave some “fans” devastated: unlike the Cathro and Levein situations, where they were given pre seasons when they should have been sacked, she’s directly learned from that, and took decisive action to make a change in manager for pre season. It’s been vindicated by the league table.
 

Each performance in isolation you can unpick the flaws, you’d think we should have done a lot better with our possesion and we shouldn’t have made defensive mistakes. But the win percentage starts to tip the scales. 

The question really was have we “laboured” in many games this season or is it a perception? I would say in half our games home and away that’s a reality. 
As for Stendel he was here three months and it’s ridiculous to judge him in that time with the problems he inherited, that you acknowledge and give Neilson credit for turning these around in this tinpot league against teams with no money. 
Skinny budget? He’s signed 11 players and paid a trainer fee, Budge herself said the other day the playing budget was almost the same. As the article touched on but didn’t give details, poor journalism as usual, our budget dwarfs those that we’ve been more dominant than. Ours was £8.7m last year, United £4.1m, St Mirren and Ross County probably about half that again. So winning this poor league at the minute really is no great achievement, you could say having almost exactly the same results as last season he did better up there. I believe one of the reasons we’ve laboured is because he has had poor results against these teams with United, and that these teams all know how he plays and how to counteract this. But with the wages we pay our players should be at a higher standard and produce better, Halliday and Naismith have both acknowledged this. 
As for the playing style nobody who has watched his teams expect great free flowing football, we know what we’re in for until he moves on. 
You give Budge credit for finally realising she needed to change in the summer, all she really did was go back to what she knew and had been discussed with Levein last season, so still taking his advice. 
 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

The question really was have we “laboured” in many games this season or is it a perception? I would say in half our games home and away that’s a reality. 

 

 

 

We've certainly laboured to score in a few games, but that happens when teams park the bus—from kick-off in some cases. I'm not sure a game where we create 26 chances like the Morton draw can be called laboured. That was just terrible finishing. IMO we should go direct in the games where we're camped in the other team's half and play the percentages but Neilson prefers to stick to a possession game and there is some logic in playing a similar style to the one we plan to play next season. We have more attacking options now so I think we'll be better in a attacking sense for the rest of the season.

Edited March 12, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[A_A wehatethehibs]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

The question really was have we “laboured” in many games this season or is it a perception? I would say in half our games home and away that’s a reality. 
As for Stendel he was here three months and it’s ridiculous to judge him in that time with the problems he inherited, that you acknowledge and give Neilson credit for turning these around in this tinpot league against teams with no money. 
Skinny budget? He’s signed 11 players and paid a trainer fee, Budge herself said the other day the playing budget was almost the same. As the article touched on but didn’t give details, poor journalism as usual, our budget dwarfs those that we’ve been more dominant than. Ours was £8.7m last year, United £4.1m, St Mirren and Ross County probably about half that again. So winning this poor league at the minute really is no great achievement, you could say having almost exactly the same results as last season he did better up there. I believe one of the reasons we’ve laboured is because he has had poor results against these teams with United, and that these teams all know how he plays and how to counteract this. But with the wages we pay our players should be at a higher standard and produce better, Halliday and Naismith have both acknowledged this. 
As for the playing style nobody who has watched his teams expect great free flowing football, we know what we’re in for until he moves on. 
You give Budge credit for finally realising she needed to change in the summer, all she really did was go back to what she knew and had been discussed with Levein last season, so still taking his advice. 
 

Sounds like you’re bleating and moaning about a load of pish. Hearts are winning football matches. For some reason you seem unhappy about that. 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Sounds like you’re bleating and moaning about a load of pish. Hearts are winning football matches. For some reason you seem unhappy about that. 

 

 

Enlightening. 
You seem easily pleased in a tin pot league with a massive budget compared to the others where we have most certainly “laboured” in at least half the games. 
Some of us see the same malaise that has us in the mess festering on. 

[Pasquale for King]

50 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

We've certainly laboured to score in a few games, but that happens when teams park the bus—from kick-off in some cases. I'm not sure a game where we create 26 chances like the Morton draw can be called laboured. That was just terrible finishing. IMO we should go direct in the games where we're camped in the other team's half and play the percentages but Neilson prefers to stick to a possession game and there is some logic in playing a similar style to the one we plan to play next season. We have more attacking options now so I think we'll be better in a attacking sense for the rest of the season.

When we draw 1:1 with manager-less Morton who only have one GK at the club then yes I would say that’s the very definition of labouring. 26 attempts is not 26 chances. We had around the same amount of shots against Gretna in the 2006 cup final and it’s accepted we laboured to that victory. 
I would say any game we win by a goal, draw or lose can be described as labouring in this tinpot league with our budget compared to the others. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Enlightening. 
You seem easily pleased in a tin pot league with a massive budget compared to the others where we have most certainly “laboured” in at least half the games. 
Some of us see the same malaise that has us in the mess festering on. 

Yes those “some of us” are the depressing negative minded pessimists spouting the same old pish. Gradually the win percentage, tips the scales as the wins stack up. Take 1 second of your time to look on the bright side. Hearts haven’t lost a football match since January. Is that Fact good news or bad news would you say? 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Yes those “some of us” are the depressing negative minded pessimists spouting the same old pish. Gradually the win percentage, tips the scales as the wins stack up. Take 1 second of your time to look on the bright side. Hearts haven’t lost a football match since January. Is that Fact good news or bad news would you say? 

In this tinpot league it’s what’s expected nothing more, we have three times the budget of anyone else. 
Can you imagine the third biggest team in any country be extremely happy with being unbeaten in two months 🙈. 
Im afraid happy clappers like yourself are part of the reason we find ourselves in this league in the first place. 
I was actually chuffed to bits last week and could see the progression in the performance and was surprised there was negativity about the first 65 minutes. The manager being unnecessarily negative once again meant a needlessly nervy last half hour unfortunately. 
But I will get the strip, training top and scarf on tomorrow to watch us and hopefully see a good 90 minutes. Slag for me that if you fancy. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

In this tinpot league it’s what’s expected nothing more, we have three times the budget of anyone else. 
Can you imagine the third biggest team in any country be extremely happy with being unbeaten in two months 🙈. 
Im afraid happy clappers like yourself are part of the reason we find ourselves in this league in the first place. 
I was actually chuffed to bits last week and could see the progression in the performance and was surprised there was negativity about the first 65 minutes. The manager being unnecessarily negative once again meant a needlessly nervy last half hour unfortunately. 
But I will get the strip, training top and scarf on tomorrow to watch us and hopefully see a good 90 minutes. Slag for me that if you fancy. 

It’s about context 

 

Last season Hearts won just 4 games out of 31 league  fixtures. 

 

Nobody is overjoyed happy clapping celebrating it, you’re missing the point entirely. It’s the first time there’s been any good news about Hearts since basically September 2018. This is our best form in 2 and a half years. Yes nobody is saying that’s anything other than absolutely tragic. But... it’s a start isn’t it?! we’ve got a team that knows how to win a ****ing game of football at least for a change?! 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It’s about context 

 

Last season Hearts won just 4 games out of 31 league  fixtures. 

 

Nobody is overjoyed happy clapping celebrating it, you’re missing the point entirely. It’s the first time there’s been any good news about Hearts since basically September 2018. This is our best form in 2 and a half years. Yes nobody is saying that’s anything other than absolutely tragic. But... it’s a start isn’t it?! we’ve got a team that knows how to win a ****ing game of football at least for a change?! 

There are a few who are comparing Neilsons alleged success just now to winning in the top league.

I would say the majority on here and in the real world are less than happy with this season, winning or not. The football on offer isn’t a hell of a lot better and struggling against these teams not viewed as progress I’m afraid. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

There are a few who are comparing Neilsons alleged success just now to winning in the top league.

I would say the majority on here and in the real world are less than happy with this season, winning or not. The football on offer isn’t a hell of a lot better and struggling against these teams not viewed as progress I’m afraid. 

Not seen anybody compare it to winning the top league. 

 

Aside from that, it seems like some just can’t bring themselves to accept it. It is good news. It’s not great / incredible / amazing news. But it beats absolutely floundering like we have since September 2018. Even the nervy last half hour last week. Think back to last season. Would the outcome of that game have been a win for Hearts? Would it ****. Thankfully someone had the sense to sign a goalkeeper. About 3 years since the last one McLaughlin. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Not seen anybody compare it to winning the top league. 

 

Aside from that, it seems like some just can’t bring themselves to accept it. It is good news. It’s not great / incredible / amazing news. But it beats absolutely floundering like we have since September 2018. Even the nervy last half hour last week. Think back to last season. Would the outcome of that game have been a win for Hearts? Would it ****. Thankfully someone had the sense to sign a goalkeeper. About 3 years since the last one McLaughlin. 

You’ve just compared it to the top league, we are playing against absolute horse shit most weeks and labouring in half the games so far. We would’ve lost that game last season, or this if we played teams in the top league. 
The Neilson defence league use his first time around as a barometer, as they did with his mentor. Without accepting that a lot of us weren’t happy first time around and he’s not improved as a manager. 
I take on board that we’ve been awful for years and I think we’ve all got the football version of ptsd, it’s why some of us see us going down the same road, but others are happy to see us winning again. 
It’s just as well we have a top class GK as the defence has been poor and given up quite a few chances, no matter how we play. 

[Musemic]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’ve just compared it to the top league, we are playing against absolute horse shit most weeks and labouring in half the games so far. We would’ve lost that game last season, or this if we played teams in the top league. 
The Neilson defence league use his first time around as a barometer, as they did with his mentor. Without accepting that a lot of us weren’t happy first time around and he’s not improved as a manager. 
I take on board that we’ve been awful for years and I think we’ve all got the football version of ptsd, it’s why some of us see us going down the same road, but others are happy to see us winning again. 
It’s just as well we have a top class GK as the defence has been poor and given up quite a few chances, no matter how we play. 

The top league is absolute horseshit too. The team currently occupying 4th place have scored ONE goal in their last NINE games so I wouldn't bet on them to beat anyone.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’ve just compared it to the top league, we are playing against absolute horse shit most weeks and labouring in half the games so far. We would’ve lost that game last season, or this if we played teams in the top league. 
The Neilson defence league use his first time around as a barometer, as they did with his mentor. Without accepting that a lot of us weren’t happy first time around and he’s not improved as a manager. 
I take on board that we’ve been awful for years and I think we’ve all got the football version of ptsd, it’s why some of us see us going down the same road, but others are happy to see us winning again. 
It’s just as well we have a top class GK as the defence has been poor and given up quite a few chances, no matter how we play. 

Your comment about the footballing PTSD is our common ground here. Folk have become completely numb and are now unable to feel any form of small happiness at a small fact, that the team hasn’t been beat in 2 months. No it’s not a 20 game unbeaten run to win the Premiership and get in the champions league. But it beats going 2 months without a win doesn’t it?? For me, folk just need to just lay off the criticism a bit and enjoy the small bit of good news for what it is. 

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, Musemic said:

The top league is absolute horseshit too. The team currently occupying 4th place have scored ONE goal in their last NINE games so I wouldn't bet on them to beat anyone.

Well yes but still slightly higher standard, Harrods v Poundland 😜

[Pasquale for King]

24 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Your comment about the footballing PTSD is our common ground here. Folk have become completely numb and are now unable to feel any form of small happiness at a small fact, that the team hasn’t been beat in 2 months. No it’s not a 20 game unbeaten run to win the Premiership and get in the champions league. But it beats going 2 months without a win doesn’t it?? For me, folk just need to just lay off the criticism a bit and enjoy the small bit of good news for what it is. 

Here’s hoping there is more tomorrow. 

[hmfc_liam06]

Raith are really breathing down our neck now.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Raith are really breathing down our neck now.

Must admit I tuned into their result - pleased they dropped points. 😊

[jambo-in-furness]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

Must admit I tuned into their result - pleased they dropped points. 😊

so did I,  so am I,  how sad is that?😩