Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, Sertse said:

If they're sacked I think there's a clause usually that they only get X amount of months wages. If I'm not mistaken it's usually 3.

Although being the club we are that was probably omitted.

I'm sorry but I can't believe that. 

Any new manager would have to be cracked to agree to that. 

Given the results based nature of football managers are often replaced on a whim. There has to be some kind of job security. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

I'm sorry but I can't believe that. 

Any new manager would have to be cracked to agree to that. 

Given the results based nature of football managers are often replaced on a whim. There has to be some kind of job security. 

Most football manager contracts have severance details in their favour/the club’s favour. So Neilson’s will almost certainly state what he’s due if he’s sacked (let’s say 12 months salary for the sake of argument) and also what the club are due if someone tries to poach him (ho ho).

 

Between the inevitable pay off and the compo paid to Dundee United, Budge has wasted another extraordinary sum of money. She’s good at that.

[Boyces beard]

Guys i made a petition to have Robbie Neilson removed. I dont really do social media and there might be other petitions out there and if so please ignore this one and provide a link to any other petitions that have already been started. If there are no petitions out there then please share this one, hopefully it can help put a little more pressure on the board to act.

 

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/robbie-neilson-out

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I'm sorry but I can't believe that. 

Any new manager would have to be cracked to agree to that. 

Given the results based nature of football managers are often replaced on a whim. There has to be some kind of job security. 

This.

Normally he would be entitled to the balance of his contract unless he was dismissed for misconduct but if it were for incompetence, he would have had to have received warning letters with offers of counselling etc.  Otherwise it could become a messy and expensive trip (s) to an Employment Tribunal.

He could however waive part of his entitlement which would show up well on his CV when seeking a new post.  The opposite could be true if he made a song and dance which became public knowledge.  I hope we just pay that to which he is entitled and move on as any good employer would do.

[luckydug]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Most football manager contracts have severance details in their favour/the club’s favour. So Neilson’s will almost certainly state what he’s due if he’s sacked (let’s say 12 months salary for the sake of argument) and also what the club are due if someone tries to poach him (ho ho).

 

Between the inevitable pay off and the compo paid to Dundee United, Budge has wasted another extraordinary sum of money. She’s good at that.

You know what bugs me is Mrs B said when appointing our CEO that she was going to concentrate on non football matters. I took that to mean the CEO would be the top dog on football matters with manager, coaches, scouts and Sporting director all reporting to him ultimately. 

Yet here we are Mrs Budge still making football decisions and the CEO nowhere to be seen earning his 100k plus pa. 

Much as I hate to compare with Hibs, when Petrie was making a dogs dinner of running things he stepped back and appointed Dempster as CEO. 

I fully expected similar at Hearts. 

[JamboAl]

9 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Most football manager contracts have severance details in their favour/the club’s favour. So Neilson’s will almost certainly state what he’s due if he’s sacked (let’s say 12 months salary for the sake of argument) and also what the club are due if someone tries to poach him (ho ho).

 

Between the inevitable pay off and the compo paid to Dundee United, Budge has wasted another extraordinary sum of money. She’s good at that.

Unfortunately these things happen in football and hindsight is a wonderful thing

BUT

apart from Carlos Corberan with his Joel Perreira baggage, can you give us the name of someone we could reasonably hire and be sure he will be such a success that AB won't need to repeat this mistake.

[luckydug]

15 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Most football manager contracts have severance details in their favour/the club’s favour. So Neilson’s will almost certainly state what he’s due if he’s sacked (let’s say 12 months salary for the sake of argument) and also what the club are due if someone tries to poach him (ho ho).

 

Between the inevitable pay off and the compo paid to Dundee United, Budge has wasted another extraordinary sum of money. She’s good at that.

Would you agree that a severence package of three months wages is unlikely and rather optimistic on our part ? 🤔 

[bobskeldon]

If there is a litmus test for what is wrong at our club with RN and his coaches, Aaron McEneff is the sample. He is a central midfield player who when introduced only a few weeks ago looked as if he would give us something different. In his first 2/3 appearances as a sub his first thought was to turn, go forward, play forward passes and more importantly play passes between the lines. Look at him now! 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Unfortunately these things happen in football and hindsight is a wonderful thing

BUT

apart from Carlos Corberan with his Joel Perreira baggage, can you give us the name of someone we could reasonably hire and be sure he will be such a success that AB won't need to repeat this mistake.

McInnes and Neil would do a better job than Neilson without breaking sweat. Not desperate to go for either of them but they’d do better than him.

 

Who’s your suggestion? Because you ask these questions but never answer them yourself, mainly due to your lack of knowledge about the game.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Would you agree that a severence package of three months wages is unlikely and rather optimistic on our part ? 🤔 

Depends on who you’re negotiating with but no decent manager who gets a long contact is going accept that 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Btw, anyone got a link to the audio of this clown’s post match interview yesterday? Want to hear how ridiculous it was

[Newton51]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Btw, anyone got a link to the audio of this clown’s post match interview yesterday? Want to hear how ridiculous it was

Sportsound podcast. Federation of hearts rep on about 39 minutes in and was after that

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Newton51 said:

Sportsound podcast. Federation of hearts rep on about 39 minutes in and was after that

 Cheers

[jambopilms]

The club accepted the embarrassment of the Brora defeat and sure enough another embarrassment came along soon after. How many more do we have to eñdure 

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Btw, anyone got a link to the audio of this clown’s post match interview yesterday? Want to hear how ridiculous it was

Your just punishing yourself wanting to listen to that slavering erse.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Your just punishing yourself wanting to listen to that slavering erse.

Just listened to it now. The excuse making is extraordinary but tbf, he knows his goose is cooked after this job so he’s desperate 

[NANOJAMBO]

14 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Most football manager contracts have severance details in their favour/the club’s favour. So Neilson’s will almost certainly state what he’s due if he’s sacked (let’s say 12 months salary for the sake of argument) and also what the club are due if someone tries to poach him (ho ho).

 

Between the inevitable pay off and the compo paid to Dundee United, Budge has wasted another extraordinary sum of money. She’s good at that.

Strictly speaking, I wouldn't say that's true because he was brought in to get promotion and despite the state of the place right now it looks like he will achieve this. The problem here is that it is such a narrow view of his "success". 

 

If I was Neilson - and having been head hunted by Budge- I'd have insisted on a  contract clause saying I get my full contract paid up on severance but obviously we'll never know, either way. 

The crux for me is - does Budge/the board/CEO etc REALLY back him ? Do they really back him because they believe in him, despite the absolute shit show he has presided over in the last few months ? Do they really think this guy has demonstrated he has what it takes to take the club forward - including rebuilding (which will take years) a failed/failing squad ? Or are they just keeping him in situ because they can't pay him (and the rest) off ? Because if they go all-in on Neilson they are committing at least the next two years and millions of pounds in this idea. 

The club is already on the verge of becoming a yo-yo club so the next two years are absolutely critical. 

If he fails they are finished. And then that would indeed be an extraordinary waste of money. But then she has wasted vast sums already. 

 

 

[wavydavy]

12 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

McInnes and Neil would do a better job than Neilson without breaking sweat. Not desperate to go for either of them but they’d do better than him.

 

Who’s your suggestion? Because you ask these questions but never answer them yourself, mainly due to your lack of knowledge about the game.

 

Neill would be the better option if only because of his previous working knowledge/ relationship with our SD.

[NANOJAMBO]

17 minutes ago, luckydug said:

You know what bugs me is Mrs B said when appointing our CEO that she was going to concentrate on non football matters. I took that to mean the CEO would be the top dog on football matters with manager, coaches, scouts and Sporting director all reporting to him ultimately. 

Yet here we are Mrs Budge still making football decisions and the CEO nowhere to be seen earning his 100k plus pa. 

Much as I hate to compare with Hibs, when Petrie was making a dogs dinner of running things he stepped back and appointed Dempster as CEO. 

I fully expected similar at Hearts. 

Having seen the poster who claims the CEO wants Neilson emptied , that might explain his silence on the matter . Or it could be bollocks. Or it could be a sign of ABs inability to let go. 

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

McInnes and Neil would do a better job than Neilson without breaking sweat. Not desperate to go for either of them but they’d do better than him.

 

Who’s your suggestion? Because you ask these questions but never answer them yourself, mainly due to your lack of knowledge about the game.

I did not ask who would do a better job without breaking sweat.  I asked

 

apart from Carlos Corberan with his Joel Perreira baggage, can you give us the name of someone we could reasonably hire and be sure he will be such a success that AB won't need to repeat this mistake.

 

I have already stated my preference elsewhere on this board ie Alex Neil with Colin Cameron as assistant manager.  I would not even be averse to Goodwin of St Liedoon but that would not be welcomed by many Hearts fans.

Now can you answer my question.

[OTT]

48 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Clubs do it all the time, they are just paid their salary every month until the contract ends or they get another job, same as we did with Levein and Macphee. 
With a drop in FoH contributions and possibly half the season ticket revenue that’s millions we are talking about, we can’t afford not to sack him. 

 

I'm sure a benefactor could stump up the cash immediately if that was an issue. Would see an immediate resurgence in pledges returning too. So even if it was just a smallish loan from the benefactor it would be job done. 

[milky_26]

14 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

McInnes and Neil would do a better job than Neilson without breaking sweat. Not desperate to go for either of them but they’d do better than him.

 

Who’s your suggestion? Because you ask these questions but never answer them yourself, mainly due to your lack of knowledge about the game.

McInnes would do better but i feel it would end up being like the csaba teams. solid reasonably effective but would be a poor watch. yes that is better than we currently have but i feel we should aim a bit higher

[OTT]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

Having seen the poster who claims the CEO wants Neilson emptied , that might explain his silence on the matter . Or it could be bollocks. Or it could be a sign of ABs inability to let go. 

 

Saw that on twitter (?). If true then fair play to McKinnley, It feels a bit shades of Vlad tbh. I.e Budges way or the highway and sod what anyone else thinks. 

 

Robbies continued place within the club will surely be having an adverse impact on cashflows. Thats surely a measurable impact which can be shown? I.e pledges down, season tickets down, merch down, etc. 

[HartleyLegend3]

The fact that our nearest challengers keep taking points off each other has ultimately made it a lot more easier for Neilson to stay in the job. 

 

Does anyone know where they were points wise at this time last season? 

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Just listened to it now. The excuse making is extraordinary but tbf, he knows his goose is cooked after this job so he’s desperate 

I really detest him.

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I'm sure a benefactor could stump up the cash immediately if that was an issue. Would see an immediate resurgence in pledges returning too. So even if it was just a smallish loan from the benefactor it would be job done. 

Indeed. 

[milky_26]

6 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I'm sure a benefactor could stump up the cash immediately if that was an issue. Would see an immediate resurgence in pledges returning too. So even if it was just a smallish loan from the benefactor it would be job done. 

or put him on gardening leave so he keeps getting paid as usual so it is not a lump sum. often when this happens a settlement is negotiated quite soon after

[Sherbet]

Rumour on the go deal agreed with mcinnes for next season and robbie here til end of this season. Not happy with either prospect 

[jambo-fletch]

3 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

The fact that our nearest challengers keep taking points off each other has ultimately made it a lot more easier for Neilson to stay in the job. 

 

Does anyone know where they were points wise at this time last season? 

 Played 22

won 18

drawn 3

lost 1

 

11 points better off than this season!

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Saw that on twitter (?). If true then fair play to McKinnley, It feels a bit shades of Vlad tbh. I.e Budges way or the highway and sod what anyone else thinks. 

 

Robbies continued place within the club will surely be having an adverse impact on cashflows. Thats surely a measurable impact which can be shown? I.e pledges down, season tickets down, merch down, etc. 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

In any case, no football club will acknowledge that fan action like this will make them sack a manager. I also doubt the drop off in pledges is that great but time will tell.

The critical thing for me - which Budge has not done - is to come out and say unequivocally that Neilson is here to stay, he has the full backing of the club and will be the man to take us forward & rebuild the team. She has not said that. But she gave him a 3 year deal to do just that. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

13 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I did not ask who would do a better job without breaking sweat.  I asked

 

apart from Carlos Corberan with his Joel Perreira baggage, can you give us the name of someone we could reasonably hire and be sure he will be such a success that AB won't need to repeat this mistake.

 

I have already stated my preference elsewhere on this board ie Alex Neil with Colin Cameron as assistant manager.  I would not even be averse to Goodwin of St Liedoon but that would not be welcomed by many Hearts fans.

Now can you answer my question.

No manager will never not need sacked.

[LarrysRightFoot]

5 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Rumour on the go deal agreed with mcinnes for next season and robbie here til end of this season. Not happy with either prospect 

Not that I couldn’t see us going for McInnes (he wouldn’t be my first choice though) but I doubt this rumour is true. 

[HartleyLegend3]

5 minutes ago, jambo-fletch said:

 Played 22

won 18

drawn 3

lost 1

 

11 points better off than this season!

Who was that, Raith?

[David Black]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not if she picks another crap manager. She’s a control freak, she won’t stay out the public eye. 

That's exactly it, she is a control freak, maybe never started that way but as time has passed she has become one. I actually think she is frightened of how life would be without work or running Hearts. It keeps her occupied.

[tcjambo]

8 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Rumour on the go deal agreed with mcinnes for next season and robbie here til end of this season. Not happy with either prospect 

If McInnes is the answer we are asking the wrong question

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Clubs do it all the time, they are just paid their salary every month until the contract ends or they get another job, same as we did with Levein and Macphee. 
With a drop in FoH contributions and possibly half the season ticket revenue that’s millions we are talking about, we can’t afford not to sack him. 

You are right - they do but I wonder if the employee, if he so chose, could take a case for constructive dismissal.

[jambo-fletch]

3 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Who was that, Raith?

Falkirk at home, we then bounced back with 9 wins in a row! Changed days eh.

[jambopilms]

Does anyone actually think the club has moved quick enough to agree a deal to get rid of Neilson and agree with McInnes a new deal. Not a chance. 

[Newton51]

23 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Just listened to it now. The excuse making is extraordinary but tbf, he knows his goose is cooked after this job so he’s desperate 

I thought his voice was going a couple of times. Saw in the match report he turned round to the director box when turned two two with a loud shout

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

No manager will never not need sacked.

So you haven't a clue who would fit your own criteria.  What a genius!

Apart from that your statement is chatacteristic rubbish.  Neilson wasn't sacked the last time; Fergie was not sacked by Man U

[Newton51]

12 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Rumour on the go deal agreed with mcinnes for next season and robbie here til end of this season. Not happy with either prospect 

I wouldn’t be against this. Mcinnes to get us  European football etc. Style of football not great but better than what is on show just now

[jambo-fletch]

What concerns me is if we don’t act now and Robbie struggles in the top flight, at which point the likes of Neil and Mcinnes have found new jobs and we’re left spending weeks again to look for a replacement.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, JamboAl said:

So you haven't a clue who would fit your own criteria.  What a genius!

Apart from that your statement is chatacteristic rubbish.  Neilson wasn't sacked the last time; Fergie was not sacked by Man U

I never said it was my criteria, Einstein. I said Ann has wasted money on an appointment which any fool could see was lazy and uninspired in the first place.

 

You are ****ing desperate btw.

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Does anyone actually think the club has moved quick enough to agree a deal to get rid of Neilson and agree with McInnes a new deal. Not a chance. 

Agreed. 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You are right - they do but I wonder if the employee, if he so chose, could take a case for constructive dismissal.

Not many do, the worst result in a clubs history surely proves your incompetence. 

[Sherbet]

Wonder who is just along the corridor now

[tcjambo]

We need a dynamic figure. Of our recent managers only Stendel and Locke transmitted that feeling of passion and both were ditched by the current regime. Neilson should go along with the ex-Rangers backroom staff with JJ. Locke and Andy Kirk running the show until the end of the season. New manager at the end of the season and i personally would have Stendelback if we apologise to him and he accepts it.

 

It's going to be expensive but we need shot of a whole host of players like White, Popescu, Halliday, Frear and I never thought I'd say it but maybe even Halkett, Haring and Irving as well. Naismith - depends on his contract. Currently, I would only definitely keep Gordon, Souttar, Boyce and Gnand. I just pray we get Souttar back fully fit next season.

 

 

[wavydavy]

16 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Strictly speaking, I wouldn't say that's true because he was brought in to get promotion and despite the state of the place right now it looks like he will achieve this. The problem here is that it is such a narrow view of his "success". 

 

If I was Neilson - and having been head hunted by Budge- I'd have insisted on a  contract clause saying I get my full contract paid up on severance but obviously we'll never know, either way. 

The crux for me is - does Budge/the board/CEO etc REALLY back him ? Do they really back him because they believe in him, despite the absolute shit show he has presided over in the last few months ? Do they really think this guy has demonstrated he has what it takes to take the club forward - including rebuilding (which will take years) a failed/failing squad ? Or are they just keeping him in situ because they can't pay him (and the rest) off ? Because if they go all-in on Neilson they are committing at least the next two years and millions of pounds in this idea. 

The club is already on the verge of becoming a yo-yo club so the next two years are absolutely critical. 

If he fails they are finished. And then that would indeed be an extraordinary waste of money. But then she has wasted vast sums already. 

 

 

 

 

Look at the shit show as you say that Levein presided over for how many years?

 

I am not saying that I am happy with Robbie and the team at the moment but I think you are being a bit unfair on him considering what has gone on before and what he has inherited.

 

I am not happy with a number of his signings nor the performances but I doubt many of them are costing anything like the amounts of money Levein wasted.

 

We still have the likes of Damour doing absolutely nothing and one of the highest paid players at the club.

 

Robbie has as much as said that there is still a core of players at the club that are not interested and he wants rid of them.

 

I think if she is going to get rid of him it should be done now and put JJ along with Locke in charge for the rest of the season before getting the new man in.

 

If she doesn't do that and lets Robbie stay on and hopefully secure the Championship and promotion then she could let him go then but I think she will want to give him the chance to prove that he can improve the team.

 

None of us know what is going on in the background with JJ and our new SD. ARe they currently looking for the players that Robbie wants for next season?

 

Are they working on trying to offload the rubbish that we have that are still contracted to the club and costing us a lot of money?

 

 

It is undoubtedly a difficult call whether to back him or let him go but my money is on her giving him the opportunity to prove himself.

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I never said it was my criteria, Einstein. I said Ann has wasted money on an appointment which any fool could see was lazy and uninspired in the first place.

 

You are ****ing desperate btw.

Thanks for the compliment Dumbo .

Any fool could see that AT THE TIME she chose a manager who had won promotion twice from the Championship and only with hindsight can we judge whether she was right.

The only desperate person is yourself who cannot/will not answer the question and everyone knows why - your usual critical empty rhetoric often laced with nastiness.

Only a fool would put forward the name of a manager who signed Joel Perreira after his illustrious stint with us and you accuse others of not knowng anything about football.  Take a break and give us a break.

[Fort Vallance]

I could be wrong but I'm guessing Neilson was only given one target. Bearing in mind that the competition are taking points off each other it's a fair bet he'll deliver that particular target. Consequently it makes it very difficult to actually sack him. Personally I think the Broad result is a stackable offence but an employment lawyer would argue otherwise.

If he had been given any other clear KPI's and failed it would have been easier to bin him. Unfortunately barring miracles I think we're stuck with him at least until the end of the season.  My worry then would be that she'll give him the first half dozen games in the top league and that would be a disaster.