Irving - signs for SK Austria Klagenfurt ( updated )

[TheBigO]

A

26 minutes ago, willie wallace said:

Yea,it looks pretty much like that almost every game.

It would help if the other attacking players would get up the park a bit quicker.

Boyce is so isolated at times it's ridiculous.

 

For me it's simple. We just need to occupy and engage their defenders. Go 2 up top. One can drop off to take the ball, that's fine, in fact in creates the prob for a CH of whether to go with or pass the attacker to a midfielder.

 

Look a match is a living breathing thing. I've no doubt all the stuff we want is probably in the plan. The players need to be clever enough as well to react to the game.

[Deevers]

2 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

A

For me it's simple. We just need to occupy and engage their defenders. Go 2 up top. One can drop off to take the ball, that's fine, in fact in creates the prob for a CH of whether to go with or pass the attacker to a midfielder.

 

Look a match is a living breathing thing. I've no doubt all the stuff we want is probably in the plan. The players need to be clever enough as well to react to the game.

It’ll be interesting to see if we start with two up front on Saturday.  Last Friday was excruciating to watch at times. All that possession and so few chances created. 

[TheBigO]

16 minutes ago, Deevers said:

It’ll be interesting to see if we start with two up front on Saturday.  Last Friday was excruciating to watch at times. All that possession and so few chances created. 

What I want to know, but unless RObbie comes out and slates his players, we never will, and that won't happen...

 

Are the players playing within 20 yards zones when we have the ball as that's our system of play, or are they not being as dynamic as they should be for some reason.

 

He's talked before about midfielders not getting close enough to the forwards and then for a couple of games, we did that better.  I think we could say the same about our FBs.  GMS has had pelters on here.  Well, firstly let's give the dude time, but also, how many overlaps have given him a one on one?  Can't think of any, really, and that's what a winger wants at all levels.  The way teams play against us, we're never going to have counter attacks where our wingers have room to stretch their legs, so we need to work hard to create chances for them to exploit situations.
 

As I say, I'd bet the house all this is worked on in training and talked about.  A mixtures of the players working harder to carry it out (there's no lack of physical effort, I mean working harder in their heids!), and perhaps systems and more suitable players in certain positions to help do this.

 

McEneff in for Halliday solves a lot of this imo.  Jamie out wide, with license to roam and Gnando or Naisy up with Boyce.

[Deevers]

19 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

What I want to know, but unless RObbie comes out and slates his players, we never will, and that won't happen...

 

Are the players playing within 20 yards zones when we have the ball as that's our system of play, or are they not being as dynamic as they should be for some reason.

 

He's talked before about midfielders not getting close enough to the forwards and then for a couple of games, we did that better.  I think we could say the same about our FBs.  GMS has had pelters on here.  Well, firstly let's give the dude time, but also, how many overlaps have given him a one on one?  Can't think of any, really, and that's what a winger wants at all levels.  The way teams play against us, we're never going to have counter attacks where our wingers have room to stretch their legs, so we need to work hard to create chances for them to exploit situations.
 

As I say, I'd bet the house all this is worked on in training and talked about.  A mixtures of the players working harder to carry it out (there's no lack of physical effort, I mean working harder in their heids!), and perhaps systems and more suitable players in certain positions to help do this.

 

McEneff in for Halliday solves a lot of this imo.  Jamie out wide, with license to roam and Gnando or Naisy up with Boyce.

Certainly how I see things. I think Naismith will see a lot of time coming of the bench for much of the rest of the season.  Saturday should provide a good opportunity for better attacking options.  Looking for a reaction from the players to what was a pretty insipid effort on Friday.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

15 hours ago, jr ewing said:

More a Barry Ferguson than a Jim Bett.

More a Jason Holt than a Barry Ferguson 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 hour ago, willie wallace said:

Yea,it looks pretty much like that almost every game.

It would help if the other attacking players would get up the park a bit quicker.

Boyce is so isolated at times it's ridiculous.

 

There is a player that’s supposed to be the link man between midfield and attack, playing between the lines. He’s been starting every game but you won’t have seen much of him in those games as he tends to hide for 85 of the 90 minutes. That’s why it tends to look like there’s a huge empty space between the midfield and the attack, there’s actually a player there you just missed him. 

[Jambof3tornado]

15 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He's definitely capable of creating an attack from deep with one pass. We don't really have anyone else like that. McEnuff looks more of a carry the ball and burst forward Cameron or John McGinn type. Irving and McEnuff could complement each other well, although I'd like to see Haring and McEnuff, or maybe all 3 could be a decent central 3.

Totally and that 1 pass can win us the match but he needs to up the rest of his game if he's going to keep his place in our starting 11 never mind if he moves somewhere bigger.

[Debut 4]

31 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

What I want to know, but unless RObbie comes out and slates his players, we never will, and that won't happen...

 

Are the players playing within 20 yards zones when we have the ball as that's our system of play, or are they not being as dynamic as they should be for some reason.

 

He's talked before about midfielders not getting close enough to the forwards and then for a couple of games, we did that better.  I think we could say the same about our FBs.  GMS has had pelters on here.  Well, firstly let's give the dude time, but also, how many overlaps have given him a one on one?  Can't think of any, really, and that's what a winger wants at all levels.  The way teams play against us, we're never going to have counter attacks where our wingers have room to stretch their legs, so we need to work hard to create chances for them to exploit situations.
 

As I say, I'd bet the house all this is worked on in training and talked about.  A mixtures of the players working harder to carry it out (there's no lack of physical effort, I mean working harder in their heids!), and perhaps systems and more suitable players in certain positions to help do this.

 

McEneff in for Halliday solves a lot of this imo.  Jamie out wide, with license to roam and Gnando or Naisy up with Boyce.

Totally agree. I’m glad you made the FB point which I’ve shouted about for weeks.  Over 90 mins there’ll be times a winger needs to do it on his own but to get the benefits of a good winger, he needs runners off him. 
 

We need to catch the eye of defenders with maroon jerseys getting beyond him, linking with him and creating that space 25 yards from goal which makes his eyes light up.  
 

I don’t see it enough. It actually used to be a facet of Hearts game we were always good at in times past. Combinations that worried the opposition. That’s why I’ve always believed we need a better RB with that mindset.  Kingsley on the other side has the ability but seems to switch onto this much later in matches. 

[TheBigO]

4 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Totally agree. I’m glad you made the FB point which I’ve shouted about for weeks.  Over 90 mins there’ll be times a winger needs to do it on his own but to get the benefits of a good winger, he needs runners off him. 
 

We need to catch the eye of defenders with maroon jerseys getting beyond him, linking with him and creating that space 25 yards from goal which makes his eyes light up.  
 

I don’t see it enough. It actually used to be a facet of Hearts game we were always good at in times past. Combinations that worried the opposition. That’s why I’ve always believed we need a better RB with that mindset.  Kingsley on the other side has the ability but seems to switch onto this much later in matches. 

At least once a game, Smith will play a pass in to feet and follow it and go beyond.  Best example was Boyce's goal a couple of weeks back when they played a 1-2-1-2 type things!  But Smith will often finds himself in the box in a game.  But as I say, maybe once/twice.  The best fullbacks - Alexander-Arnold for example.  He makes that run every time.  He does something the defenders need to think about every time.

 

Both Smith and Kingsley are very capable of it.  Why they don't constantly make those runs brings us back to is it them, or is it instruction?

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Seems like Walker/ the wingers should be looking to run beyond him when he does drop deep. 

 

Its really depressing to watch because you can tell the attack is going to amount to nothing since there's no one far enough up the pitch to even get a shot off. 

 

Be half tempted to give Boyce the armband to give him a bit more authority on the pitch to get roaring at folk not making runs. He's a quality player being let down massively by the other attacking options. 

Think it’s a couple of the midfield players that should be looking to run beyond Boyce. We have no-one who does this except Walker when he plays the 10 role. 

[john thomas]

2 hours ago, Deevers said:

Good. Got it right at last.

Really no difference from what I originally posted .

Also , strangely , a long way from your 'considered and to the point' post

[Deevers]

10 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Really no difference from what I originally posted .

Also , strangely , a long way from your 'considered and to the point' post

Not for most.  Only a very few were actually being “ uncomplimentary”  about him.  Most were pointing out that he is far from the finished article. A big difference to being labelled “shite”.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Deevers

[Nookie Bear]

25 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

At least once a game, Smith will play a pass in to feet and follow it and go beyond.  Best example was Boyce's goal a couple of weeks back when they played a 1-2-1-2 type things!  But Smith will often finds himself in the box in a game.  But as I say, maybe once/twice.  The best fullbacks - Alexander-Arnold for example.  He makes that run every time.  He does something the defenders need to think about every time.

 

Both Smith and Kingsley are very capable of it.  Why they don't constantly make those runs brings us back to is it them, or is it instruction?

 

Was there not a thing at easter road where Paterson was told not to cross the halfway line and join the attack and he was rather vocal in his displeasure? Can't remember if it was Robbie, Levein, or Cathro in the dugout though!

[john thomas]

15 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Not for most.  Only a very few were actually being “ uncomplimentary”  about him.  Most were pointing out that he is far from the finished article. A big difference to being labelled “shite”.

I looked at one page , 8 out of the first 10 posts were uncomplimentary .

My whole point is as soon as we have a poor result or a player has a poor game the hysterical , illogical reactions on here are plain dumb .

If you disagree with that there is really no more to be said

[bigdav]

I see Irving is on the cover of Saturdays programme. Would they be doing that if he was out of favour?

[Deevers]

11 minutes ago, john thomas said:

I looked at one page , 8 out of the first 10 posts were uncomplimentary .

My whole point is as soon as we have a poor result or a player has a poor game the hysterical , illogical reactions on here are plain dumb .

If you disagree with that there is really no more to be said

Oh, I don’t disagree with that at all. This place is dreadful at times. My only point was most people were making the point that Irving was not the finished article and actually had a pretty poor game on Friday.  The hyperbole from some over whether he signs a new contract here or not always leads to some wanting to miscall the player.  That inevitably leads to some of the more stupid  things being posted on here. For me, Irving has the potential to be a really good player, but he should stay with us for another season or two to allow himself to develop. Up to him what he does though. That ball is firmly in his court.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I'd be changing the midfield pairing quickly and I wouldn't be waiting past 5pm on Saturday to do it either, lacking energy and thrust. Halliday did a job on a nasty night in Ayr, that's the days he should play. Feel Neilson is compelled to play him over Pete, since Halliday is his and Pete is Leveins.

 

Pete and Aaron on Saturday should be the call, get Naismith back in as well, he's had a rest

[Dunks]

So is he signing or not?

[john thomas]

52 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Oh, I don’t disagree with that at all. This place is dreadful at times. My only point was most people were making the point that Irving was not the finished article and actually had a pretty poor game on Friday.  The hyperbole from some over whether he signs a new contract here or not always leads to some wanting to miscall the player.  That inevitably leads to some of the more stupid  things being posted on here. For me, Irving has the potential to be a really good player, but he should stay with us for another season or two to allow himself to develop. Up to him what he does though. That ball is firmly in his court.

Can't disagree with that

[OTT]

Think he should be benched until further notice tbh. 

 

His form seems to have suffered as of late, and if his agent is playing funny buggers trying to run down his contract then he shouldn't be playing until his future is sorted. A midfield of Halliday, McEneff and Haring could work. Especially as we need to see if Haring can get back to his pre-injury form. 

 

We've won the league, so I don't see any value in giving Irving a shop window platform if all we're getting is a development fee. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

12 minutes ago, OTT said:

Think he should be benched until further notice tbh. 

 

His form seems to have suffered as of late, and if his agent is playing funny buggers trying to run down his contract then he shouldn't be playing until his future is sorted. A midfield of Halliday, McEneff and Haring could work. Especially as we need to see if Haring can get back to his pre-injury form. 

 

We've won the league, so I don't see any value in giving Irving a shop window platform if all we're getting is a development fee. 

It does need addressed but I feel like we should be keeping him. There’s talent there if it’s looked after properly 

[Martin_T]

To be honest, I think playing with two very left sided players in central midfield doesn't work. It often means that when they are playing passes to the left side of the pitch they are doing so for the full back or winger to run onto, whereas when playing to the right side, the tendency is to curl the pass into the runners feet. Personally I would give McEneff a run with Halliday to see if that gives us better balance and Irving can think things over in the stand for a bit.

[Jamhammer]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Think it’s a couple of the midfield players that should be looking to run beyond Boyce. We have no-one who does this except Walker when he plays the 10 role. 

It’s frustrating watching “wee teams” attack us on the break with 3 or 4 bursting a gut to get forward whereas we have 2 at best. One who has and is holding the ball, (usually our sole striker)  and one trying to get in the box. Our midfield plays too deep so our forwards also come deep for the ball

[TheBigO]

51 minutes ago, OTT said:

Think he should be benched until further notice tbh. 

 

His form seems to have suffered as of late, and if his agent is playing funny buggers trying to run down his contract then he shouldn't be playing until his future is sorted. A midfield of Halliday, McEneff and Haring could work. Especially as we need to see if Haring can get back to his pre-injury form. 

 

We've won the league, so I don't see any value in giving Irving a shop window platform if all we're getting is a development fee. 

I'm finding it funny people talking about his form dropping off of late.  How many average games until it's "form"?

 

A chill ******* cold on a plastic pitch at QOTS and a game in a galeforce wind where midfields were totally missed out in Ayr.  Hes in poor form though?  The few games leading up to that, he was often our best player.

 

Even in those two Friday night games, it's not like there was a lack of effort.  Against Ayr, he won quite a number of tackles and interceptions and generally his defensive game was very good.

 

Not a go at you OTT, by the way.    Just seeing a lot on here saying he isn't playing well, should be dropped etc.

 

Halliday has done nothing ALL SEASON!

 

Another thing (lets forget he hasn't signed with us for a min!), if his form has dropped, or he's had a couple of difficult games, this is when we find out what mettle the laddie has to grab the next game or two by the nuts.   It's an important part of development, certainly at 20yo, to learn to do that.

[Haken]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Was there not a thing at easter road where Paterson was told not to cross the halfway line and join the attack and he was rather vocal in his displeasure? Can't remember if it was Robbie, Levein, or Cathro in the dugout though!

Was that not the money-spinning cup replay game?

[Nookie Bear]

7 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I'm finding it funny people talking about his form dropping off of late.  How many average games until it's "form"?

 

A chill ******* cold on a plastic pitch at QOTS and a game in a galeforce wind where midfields were totally missed out in Ayr.  Hes in poor form though?  The few games leading up to that, he was often our best player.

 

Even in those two Friday night games, it's not like there was a lack of effort.  Against Ayr, he won quite a number of tackles and interceptions and generally his defensive game was very good.

 

Not a go at you OTT, by the way.    Just seeing a lot on here saying he isn't playing well, should be dropped etc.

 

Halliday has done nothing ALL SEASON!

 

Another thing (lets forget he hasn't signed with us for a min!), if his form has dropped, or he's had a couple of difficult games, this is when we find out what mettle the laddie has to grab the next game or two by the nuts.   It's an important part of development, certainly at 20yo, to learn to do that.

 

I actually thought Halliday was busy on Friday and was way down the list of poor performances on the night. He was the one receiving the ball from the defence and trying to pass it to the players who are supposed to make a difference further up the pitch.

 

 

[TheBigO]

23 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I actually thought Halliday was busy on Friday and was way down the list of poor performances on the night. He was the one receiving the ball from the defence and trying to pass it to the players who are supposed to make a difference further up the pitch.

 

 

Yeah I kind of get that and he did OK against Ayr too.  But he is yet to have a genuinely positive impact on any game imo.  Like he's contributed, done his bit at times, but has he really driven a performance, controlled a game or even had a special moment?  Not a thread to discuss Halliday, but I just don't see why he's playing.  Play him against Celtic or Hibs or Aberdeen maybe.  But even, then only maybe.  He's just kind of "there".

 

Irving and McEneff from now on for me please.

[wattie exploited]

I wonder what the thinking is  by putting him on the front cover off this weeks program   ? 

[Diadora Van Basten]

3 hours ago, TheBigO said:

I'm finding it funny people talking about his form dropping off of late.  How many average games until it's "form"?

 

A chill ******* cold on a plastic pitch at QOTS and a game in a galeforce wind where midfields were totally missed out in Ayr.  Hes in poor form though?  The few games leading up to that, he was often our best player.

 

Even in those two Friday night games, it's not like there was a lack of effort.  Against Ayr, he won quite a number of tackles and interceptions and generally his defensive game was very good.

 

Not a go at you OTT, by the way.    Just seeing a lot on here saying he isn't playing well, should be dropped etc.

 

Halliday has done nothing ALL SEASON!

 

Another thing (lets forget he hasn't signed with us for a min!), if his form has dropped, or he's had a couple of difficult games, this is when we find out what mettle the laddie has to grab the next game or two by the nuts.   It's an important part of development, certainly at 20yo, to learn to do that.

Good post and totally agree about Halliday.

If we do want to drive Irving out the door subbing him before Halliday is one way of doing it. 

[Mikey1874]

Front of the programme for Morton 

 

Must be signing. Or someone felt sorry for him.

[wattie exploited]

On 16/02/2021 at 08:56, Deevers said:

That’s the problem -  no one.

exactly this  hopefully the new Irish  midfield player will get up and help him as Naismith is to slow !!!!

Edited February 17, 2021 by wattie exploited

[Deevers]

21 minutes ago, wattie exploited said:

exactly this  hopefully the new Irish  midfield player will get up and help him as Naismith is to slow !!!!

High hopes for McEneff - looks full of running and plenty of energy. Exactly what we have been missing.  I reckon we’ll get a few goals from him.

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, Deevers said:

High hopes for McEneff - looks full of running and plenty of energy. Exactly what we have been missing.  I reckon we’ll get a few goals from him.

McEneff from clips also looks like he likes to or at least is willing to shoot from outside the box. that could lead to him scoring goals or give boyce more chances from rebounds

[grumpyespana]

11 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

McEneff from clips also looks like he likes to or at least is willing to shoot from outside the box. that could lead to him scoring goals or give boyce more chances from rebounds

The problem I see with McEneff is the rest of the players are not on the same wavelength as him but with more time together that will change he reminds me of a CC & PH type of player.

[Famous 1874]

Don’t play him until he signs. Form has dipped a lot since all that contract talk has surfaced. 

[wattie exploited]

was quoted as saying they are not going to pressure him into signing but it is now getting surely time to get a answer from him one way or another 

[kingantti1874]

Wouldn’t be that bothered. Wand of a left foot but too often passive and VERY one footed 

[frankblack]

With the length of time its taking I think its just a matter of time before he announces he's accepted a deal somewhere else.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

With the length of time its taking I think its just a matter of time before he announces he's accepted a deal somewhere else.

If it happens. Good luck to him then. Would only be for money. I’d be flabbergasted if he moves to a “bigger” club than us. Money not withstanding.

[kingantti1874]

20 minutes ago, frankblack said:

With the length of time its taking I think its just a matter of time before he announces he's accepted a deal somewhere else.

yep. It is what it is.. won’t be the first or the last. He is no Aaron Hickey that’s for sure as he’s missing some very important attributes

[north wales jambo]

Not trying to be confrontational here, but Irving can’t be the standard we’re looking for, yes he is young but for me he is one footed, little pace and can’t tackle. 

Too often it’s a sideways pass, we’re in the championship and the games I’ve seen he’s never took a game by the scruff of the neck and controlled the midfield.  

The standard we are playing against is poor, infact I’d say that none of the front 6 are going to get us anywhere but a bottom half premiership side. 

[frankblack]

41 minutes ago, north wales jambo said:

Not trying to be confrontational here, but Irving can’t be the standard we’re looking for, yes he is young but for me he is one footed, little pace and can’t tackle. 

Too often it’s a sideways pass, we’re in the championship and the games I’ve seen he’s never took a game by the scruff of the neck and controlled the midfield.  

The standard we are playing against is poor, infact I’d say that none of the front 6 are going to get us anywhere but a bottom half premiership side. 

 

He looks good when he gets the time on the ball, but when teams press us he struggles.  He isn't great out of posession.

[151]

Don't know the ins and outs but we are imo coming across as a bit desperate here with going back with offers. 

 

"Listen Andy son, this club is always bigger than the player, here's what we are willing to offer you for the privilege of wearing our shirt. 

 

Do you want to sign? If not, good luck in the future."

 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by 151

[OTT]

1 hour ago, 151 said:

Don't know the ins and outs but we are imo coming across as a bit desperate here with going back with offers. 

 

"Listen Andy son, this club is always bigger than the player, here's what we are willing to offer you for the privilege of wearing our shirt. 

 

Do you want to sign? If not, good luck in the future."

 

 

We should always look to keep and promote our academy prospects. I do agree though that if he does leave then we’ll find someone else. 
 

I want him to stay and earn his stripes here. I don’t think going abroad or down south is right for him yet. He’s young, and not the same sort of talent as Hickey who is a 1 in 100,000 sort of talent. He needs game time here, get his 100 games and move down south to a decent side and continue his development. Pushing too early rarely works out. Ryan Fraser is an exception rather than the rule. Plenty Scott Allans, Adam Kings etc. Who have made the leap but not been able to make the step up. It’s tough and brutal. 
 

It’s not to say AI should allow himself to be low balled, but first team football at his age for a good sized club looking to fight for Europe and silverware shouldn’t be discounted. It’s a huge benefit to his development. 

[wattie exploited]

19 hours ago, frankblack said:

With the length of time its taking I think its just a matter of time before he announces he's accepted a deal somewhere else.

looking that way 

[iantjambo]

Seems to have a great game. Then several mediocre games, before his next great game.

 

Obviously still young and has time to improve. I won't be too fussed if he leaves though.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

To be fair benching him after his late ‘lapse

of concentration’ (think it was against Ayr but not totally sure) seemed to work because when he was brought on at half time up in Dundee he did well (I know we lost) and also for most of the games between then and now.

[Batistuta87]

Getting a bit tedious now to be honest. I would like for him to stay but wouldn't be breaking the bank to talk him into it. 

 

[ford donald]

On 17/02/2021 at 17:44, alwaysthereinspirit said:

If it happens. Good luck to him then. Would only be for money. I’d be flabbergasted if he moves to a “bigger” club than us. Money not withstanding.

 

Not bothered one way or the other,the young irish lad looks the business.

[Chaps]

43 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 

Not bothered one way or the other,the young irish lad looks the business.

Based on what exactly?

 

He hasn’t shown anything yet that suggests he “looks the business”