All Home games to be streamed for ST Holders

[Jim Panzee]

didnt  renew my ST this season as I'm not going into any grounds until there's a vaccine.

 

I'd be fine paying £20 PPV or anything close / matching what ST's have had to pay. 

[davemclaren]

7 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Agree. It is a very tricky situation - too low and could upset ST holders, too high and uptake could end up being minimal unless a few folk chip in and watch together.

Exactly. 

[Jamboelite]

Been avoiding JKB over the summer but i’ll find it hilarious if PPV works out cheaper than what i and other ST holders have effectively paid.

 

That puts Vlads dynamic pricing to shame....

 

Still being run in certain areas as a complete shambles.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jamboelite

[Harry Potter]

17 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

Been avoiding JKB over the summer but i’ll find it hilarious if PPV works out cheaper than what i and other ST holders have effectively paid.

 

That puts Vlads dynamic pricing to shame....

 

Still being run in certain areas as a complete shambles.

So how much do you think we non-season ticket holders should pay for a match without you 

a season ticket holder  being upset.

[been here before]

According to Hearts newly released Commercial Brochure...

 

"All home games will be broadcast either on television or by our own enhanced Hearts TV service with viewing figures anticipated to be in the hundreds of thousands throughout the season. Our supporters may not be in the stadium at the start of the season, but we expect around 20,000 viewers for every home league and cup game, increasing to hundreds of thousands at TV broadcast games".

 

also...

 

"Season ticket holders will be able to watch all home games with an estimated audience of around 20,000 with non-season ticket holders and away fans tuning in via pay per view".

 

and... (their caps)

 

"THIS SEASON, HEARTS ARE INTRODUCING AN ENHANCED CLUB TV OFFERING. WITH AROUND 12,000 SEASON TICKET HOLDERS TUNING IN WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND THOUSANDS OF HOME AND AWAY SUPPORTERS WATCHING IN A NEW PAY-PERVIEW SERVICE, NUMBERS ARE LIKELY TO EXCEED USUAL STADIUM CAPACITY"

 

Make of it what you will.

 

[davemclaren]

34 minutes ago, been here before said:

According to Hearts newly released Commercial Brochure...

 

"All home games will be broadcast either on television or by our own enhanced Hearts TV service with viewing figures anticipated to be in the hundreds of thousands throughout the season. Our supporters may not be in the stadium at the start of the season, but we expect around 20,000 viewers for every home league and cup game, increasing to hundreds of thousands at TV broadcast games".

 

also...

 

"Season ticket holders will be able to watch all home games with an estimated audience of around 20,000 with non-season ticket holders and away fans tuning in via pay per view".

 

and... (their caps)

 

"THIS SEASON, HEARTS ARE INTRODUCING AN ENHANCED CLUB TV OFFERING. WITH AROUND 12,000 SEASON TICKET HOLDERS TUNING IN WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND THOUSANDS OF HOME AND AWAY SUPPORTERS WATCHING IN A NEW PAY-PERVIEW SERVICE, NUMBERS ARE LIKELY TO EXCEED USUAL STADIUM CAPACITY"

 

Make of it what you will.

 

It’s s good sell to sponsors/advertisers. 👍

[Jambo-Fox]

I’m sure Hearts said at one point in their season ticket marketing campaign that ‘buying a season ticket was the only way to see every game at Tynecastle this season’.

Perhaps with live streaming they will sell ‘seatless’ STs!

[Jack Torrance]

1 hour ago, Harry Potter said:

So how much do you think we non-season ticket holders should pay for a match without you 

a season ticket holder  being upset.

£55 per game as a minimum. That's what it's effectively costing me for my 2 adult and one child tickets assuming it's for 18 games. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jack Torrance

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

8 minutes ago, Jack Torrance said:

£55 per game as a minimum. That's what it's effectively costing me for my 2 adult and one child tickets assuming it's for 18 games. 

I don’t know what the answer to this is - and it’s a reason why the package for ST holders needed to be better than it is. If the price of streams is sky high then no-one will buy them and the club makes no additional cash off them. If they’re too low, ST holders ain’t going to be happy and they should be the priority here. As a minimum, I reckon individual streams need to by £20-£25.

[Jack Torrance]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I don’t know what the answer to this is - and it’s a reason why the package for ST holders needed to be better than it is. If the price of streams is sky high then no-one will buy them and the club makes no additional cash off them. If they’re too low, ST holders ain’t going to be happy and they should be the priority here. As a minimum, I reckon individual streams need to by £20-£25.

£10 would be the sensible price point for each game. They absolutely shouldn't count towards your season ticket attendances though. If Hearts turn round and say to me OK, we'll honour the guarantee in line with attendances in the ground but you need to pay for streaming,  I'd probably withdraw my refund request. 

[henryheart]

3 hours ago, CostaJambo said:

Cheapest season ticket without concessions works out at £17.50/game I reckon (315/18). I can't see it being any lower than that otherwise ST holders would effectively be paying more than non ST holders - imagine those scenes!!

 

Well I'll be paying £32.50 and looking at the pricing plan I reckon that this will be typical of most. This has not been thought through properly, or else those who think they have are really thick.

[Harry Potter]

35 minutes ago, Jack Torrance said:

£55 per game as a minimum. That's what it's effectively costing me for my 2 adult and one child tickets assuming it's for 18 games. 

Im out then ☹️, feel sorry for you Jack and other fans that have bought for the family,

 

[Shanks]

Hope we can get a refund on the cameras.  Will be gobsmacked if a single championship game is played. 

[Jambo92]

As someone who has been both a long distance supporter and now for past 4 years a season ticket holder, I would have totally paid £30 for a stream then and now. 

You cant compare the cost against sky rates or cinemas etc. This is a bespoke service built around the club you support. 

Im sure if you asked supporters in London this time last year if they would pay £30 every other week to watch our home games through a high standard service then almost all would snap your hand off. 

Now because its readily available shouldnt diminish the value. 

 

As a season ticket holder it isnt just the games that Im paying for, its the removal of hassle and uncertainty of buying tickets, its for the long term loyalty rewards and the ability to watch the games from a great vantage point every other week.  This season I will be giving up those perks but I see that as a donation to the club to go towards the long term success and health of the club.  Hopefully the club finds ways to reward the fans who have mutiple tickets in the same household.

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, been here before said:

According to Hearts newly released Commercial Brochure...

 

"All home games will be broadcast either on television or by our own enhanced Hearts TV service with viewing figures anticipated to be in the hundreds of thousands throughout the season. Our supporters may not be in the stadium at the start of the season, but we expect around 20,000 viewers for every home league and cup game, increasing to hundreds of thousands at TV broadcast games".

 

also...

 

"Season ticket holders will be able to watch all home games with an estimated audience of around 20,000 with non-season ticket holders and away fans tuning in via pay per view".

 

and... (their caps)

 

"THIS SEASON, HEARTS ARE INTRODUCING AN ENHANCED CLUB TV OFFERING. WITH AROUND 12,000 SEASON TICKET HOLDERS TUNING IN WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND THOUSANDS OF HOME AND AWAY SUPPORTERS WATCHING IN A NEW PAY-PERVIEW SERVICE, NUMBERS ARE LIKELY TO EXCEED USUAL STADIUM CAPACITY"

 

Make of it what you will.

 

Is it just me, or are Hearts tying themselves in knots here ?

 

The first bit in bold - so if BBC are covering a home game live, they still expect us ST holders to use up one of our 18 match guarantees .... when non-ST fans get to watch it for free on BBC ?

 

The second bit in bold -  if the number of viewers of a Hearts stream > 20k (when a likely actual attendance would be 15k max), how likely is it that the cost of next season's ST will remain at the current (very high) price when the club will want to match or exceed the ST + PPV takings from this season ? 

 

I can see why clubs are having to think out the box for this season, but it seems we're storing up  financial problems for next season and beyond.    Is  the "FoH cash-cow" mentality  at the club going into overdrive ?    🙄

 

[Big Slim Stylee]

5 hours ago, Robdawg said:

Stop making everyone laugh 😂

I couldn’t help it 😀

[Tiger]

I dont know about the PPV coming in at £10, £20, considering you can get Hearts TV for £5.99/month surely its going to be less than that, my guess is £5 ppv as to try get more people to sign up to the £5.99 a month.

[Neon]

27 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Is it just me, or are Hearts tying themselves in knots here ?

 

The first bit in bold - so if BBC are covering a home game live, they still expect us ST holders to use up one of our 18 match guarantees .... when non-ST fans get to watch it for free on BBC ?

 

The second bit in bold -  if the number of viewers of a Hearts stream > 20k (when a likely actual attendance would be 15k max), how likely is it that the cost of next season's ST will remain at the current (very high) price when the club will want to match or exceed the ST + PPV takings from this season ? 

 

I can see why clubs are having to think out the box for this season, but it seems we're storing up  financial problems for next season and beyond.    Is  the "FoH cash-cow" mentality  at the club going into overdrive ?    🙄

 

As I said on the other thread I just hope the servers can deal with it or there will be an uproar.

 

Probably would have been wise to air the East fife game with the new equipment, I know Partick shall be shown at the weekend but that is a very small margin for error before going live.

[davemclaren]

19 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I dont know about the PPV coming in at £10, £20, considering you can get Hearts TV for £5.99/month surely its going to be less than that, my guess is £5 ppv as to try get more people to sign up to the £5.99 a month.

Hearts tv in the uk has no live games to watch though, legally at any rate. 

[Paolo]

24 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I dont know about the PPV coming in at £10, £20, considering you can get Hearts TV for £5.99/month surely its going to be less than that, my guess is £5 ppv as to try get more people to sign up to the £5.99 a month.

£5.99 is for Hearts TV in the UK, and does not include live  games with pictures.  It will need to be more than that, especially since season ticket holders are paying around five to six times that, and more in some cases.  

[Tiger]

32 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Hearts tv in the uk has no live games to watch though, legally at any rate. 

 

27 minutes ago, Paolo said:

£5.99 is for Hearts TV in the UK, and does not include live  games with pictures.  It will need to be more than that, especially since season ticket holders are paying around five to six times that, and more in some cases.  

 

That was before they opened up the broadcasting rights, reading the statement release from Hearts last week it sounds to me like UK Hearts TV subscribers will also now get live games. however as per Hearts statements right now it can be read in so many different ways and isn't black or white.

 

 

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

 

That was before they opened up the broadcasting rights, reading the statement release from Hearts last week it sounds to me like UK Hearts TV subscribers will also now get live games. however as per Hearts statements right now it can be read in so many different ways and isn't black or white.

 

 

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that there is no way hearts will allow streaming of home games for £5.99 a month. 

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that there is no way hearts will allow streaming of home games for £5.99 a month. 

I think we can be sure on that one. 

[JCR]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

I dont know about the PPV coming in at £10, £20, considering you can get Hearts TV for £5.99/month surely its going to be less than that, my guess is £5 ppv as to try get more people to sign up to the £5.99 a month.

That’s crazy though, they’d price it like that and assume the platinum ST holders are happy paying £25 a game for the same service?

 

I can afford to write off the £450 but I’ve no interest in watching on my computer monitor & I don’t have a laptop I can plug into the telly. 
 

I paid £143.99 this year for NFL game pass, which most people think is steep, but it’s a bargain compared to £25 each for Hearts home games, and at least the NFL has an app on all the streaming boxes. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

39 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

 

That was before they opened up the broadcasting rights, reading the statement release from Hearts last week it sounds to me like UK Hearts TV subscribers will also now get live games. however as per Hearts statements right now it can be read in so many different ways and isn't black or white.

 

 

 

Our PPV if Hearts don't backtrack and stream games for ST holders only (like Hibs and others) is probably going to be one of the most expensive to avoid further pissing off ST holders.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, JCR said:

That’s crazy though, they’d price it like that and assume the platinum ST holders are happy paying £25 a game for the same service?

 

I can afford to write off the £450 but I’ve no interest in watching on my computer monitor & I don’t have a laptop I can plug into the telly. 
 

I paid £143.99 this year for NFL game pass, which most people think is steep, but it’s a bargain compared to £25 each for Hearts home games, and at least the NFL has an app on all the streaming boxes. 

 

Not sure we can compare Hearts (and our own streaming service we've had to set up) to the NFL. 

 

What should have happened is the SPFL setting up a streaming service for the league and promoting the game as a whole. Like Ireland did with https://www.watchloi.ie. 

[Jack Torrance]

2 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Im out then ☹️, feel sorry for you Jack and other fans that have bought for the family,

 

I know. It's a crazy situation they've cooked up. It has to be priced sensibly and there has to be some thought given to the ST buyers with multiple tickets. A tenner a game to stream would make sense. Who wouldn't stump up for that. They won't make as much but maybe with advertising and less overheads at the stadium they might managed to balance the books.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jack Torrance

[Jack Torrance]

6 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Anyone asked for their ST money back yet?

Yes. They've acknowledged my request and say it's been passed to the relevant staff and a more substantial reply will be sent.

[Jodami]

It really is a mess. I don't see any kind of substantial take up from away fans in the division and there is not one sellable game that will appeal to anyone other than really interested Hearts fans. I don't really see any casual fans paying £20 to watch us against these teams. 

On top of that numbers will drop off as the season goes on. 

[kingantti1874]

Anyone would think reading that hearts are unique.. every single club in Europe, and the vast majority of clubs on earth are in the same boat

[gnasher75]

4 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

 

The first bit in bold - so if BBC are covering a home game live, they still expect us ST holders to use up one of our 18 match guarantees .... when non-ST fans get to watch it for free on BBC ?

 

Surely they can't do that! 

[SectionFJambo]

The most expensive season ticket (excluding hospitality) was premium at £625. Platinum could have been up to £475. Basic maths here means  £35 a game .  Even if we exclude premium on the basis of some of the extras and use platinum that is £26.50 a game and that offers no savings to ST holders which would be common.

 

I just can't see who is paying for PPV offering.

 

If the club brought that down to any less I cannot see it ending well as angry fans will be even angrier. I do sense the club may backtrack however and revert to the ST guarantee with fans having options to swap it for streaming ST to appease this and open this up.

 

In terms of pricing it's a difficult one. At say £10 a game it might be cheap enough to get the ST holders and another few thousand subscribers. £15 for me would be the limit for that. Once you go above that you are ruling out most "casual" viewers for me.

[SectionFJambo]

One other area for Hearts for me would be about away games.  Not sure we will have much luck on this however if you are Alloa you potentially are replacing 2,000 tickets at £20 with many times that with streaming.

 

Hearts will hopefully be able to negotiate some benefit to this rather than the majority of the other clubs potentially being able to match their usual gate receipts and then profit over and above that.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, SectionFJambo said:

One other area for Hearts for me would be about away games.  Not sure we will have much luck on this however if you are Alloa you potentially are replacing 2,000 tickets at £20 with many times that with streaming.

 

Hearts will hopefully be able to negotiate some benefit to this rather than the majority of the other clubs potentially being able to match their usual gate receipts and then profit over and above that.

 

The other clubs are planning to use Pixellot apparently - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54062392. We're the only championship club using our own system.

Edited September 21, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[SectionFJambo]

My point is more that most clubs in the Championship might have got say 2-3,000 Hearts fans through the door at £20-25 next season. Instead they are in my view likely to potentially get double that wanting to pay for their streams.

 

They will potentially benefit from that with Hearts being one of the few clubs losing out. I'm not sure there is much we can do however if it needs our agreement I'd be looking for a % of that gain.

 

Many of our problems are size and capacity related which the smaller clubs will be able to manage better. Even when games restart many of them may be able to accommodate near normal gates once rules allow even allowing for distancing.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, SectionFJambo said:

The most expensive season ticket (excluding hospitality) was premium at £625. Platinum could have been up to £475. Basic maths here means  £35 a game .  Even if we exclude premium on the basis of some of the extras and use platinum that is £26.50 a game and that offers no savings to ST holders which would be common.

 

I just can't see who is paying for PPV offering.

 

If the club brought that down to any less I cannot see it ending well as angry fans will be even angrier. I do sense the club may backtrack however and revert to the ST guarantee with fans having options to swap it for streaming ST to appease this and open this up.

 

In terms of pricing it's a difficult one. At say £10 a game it might be cheap enough to get the ST holders and another few thousand subscribers. £15 for me would be the limit for that. Once you go above that you are ruling out most "casual" viewers for me.

 

I think the cheapest Premiership PPV is Rangers at 9.99 and Livvy is the most expensive at 20. Some clubs like Hibs and Celtic are not offering PPV at all as ST holders get exclusive access. Unless we backtrack to adopt that model, I think we'll have quite high PPV single game prices in response to the outcry from St holders. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, SectionFJambo said:

My point is more that most clubs in the Championship might have got say 2-3,000 Hearts fans through the door at £20-25 next season. Instead they are in my view likely to potentially get double that wanting to pay for their streams.

 

They will potentially benefit from that with Hearts being one of the few clubs losing out. I'm not sure there is much we can do however if it needs our agreement I'd be looking for a % of that gain.

 

Many of our problems are size and capacity related which the smaller clubs will be able to manage better. Even when games restart many of them may be able to accommodate near normal gates once rules allow even allowing for distancing.

 

Fair point. Although a lot of Hearts fans won't want to give money to the other teams. It'll be easier to boycott streaming games. However if Hearts are playing away at a pretty affordable price it'll be hard not to tune in. I assume they'll need our permission to broadcast our away games though so maybe there will be scope to negotiate a bigger cut? The idea of these clubs gaining financially from our larger online audience doesn't sit well.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Fair point. Although a lot of Hearts fans won't want to give money to the other teams. It'll be easier to boycott streaming games. However if Hearts are playing away at a pretty affordable price it'll be hard not to tune in. I assume they'll need our permission to broadcast our away games though so maybe there will be scope to negotiate a bigger cut? The idea of these clubs gaining financially from our larger online audience doesn't sit well.

I imagine the home club has the broadcasting rights so won’t need our permission. 

[DETTY29]

Sorry but how does the 'restricted' number of passes work aligned to season tickets sold that was muted....

 

Is it Premiership only or is Championship etc aligned?

[SectionFJambo]

I  understand that was Sky's terms for allowing streaming as they owned the TV rights in England and Scottish premiership - makes sense as otherwise why get a sky sub when you can buy from the clubs. 

 

Not clear if any such constraints exist for lower division clubs - I'd hazard a guess not as don't think the TV deal has had to be renegotiated with BBC.

[GinRummy]

7 hours ago, SectionFJambo said:

I  understand that was Sky's terms for allowing streaming as they owned the TV rights in England and Scottish premiership - makes sense as otherwise why get a sky sub when you can buy from the clubs. 

 

Not clear if any such constraints exist for lower division clubs - I'd hazard a guess not as don't think the TV deal has had to be renegotiated with BBC.

This is something I wondered about. When the top flight was a separate organisation from the rest of the league then there would be no doubt that Sky wouldn't have a say in which championship games could be streamed and to how many viewers but as we're now a merry band of 42 clubs I don't know if they could put a spanner in the works.

[Baxfee]

It’s only Tuesday and I can’t believe I’m getting excited at the thought of watching a friendly at the weekend. I don’t think I’ve appreciated how much I’ve missed watching the jambos. 

[Beast Boy]

10 hours ago, Jodami said:

I don't really see any casual fans paying £20 to watch us against these teams

Feel a bit of sympathy for how you are feeling, mate. Hope the club come up with something that helps. On the part of your post I’ve quoted though, I don’t believe the quality of the opposition will make a lot of difference to most supporters wanting to watch Hearts play.

[Neil Dongcaster]

PPV won’t garner much income. Streams will be all over the internet.

[highlandjambo3]

Not a techie here but, I used to listen to hearts tv (audio) when I could not get to a game so, I have a smart LG tv and I’m sure I can log onto my account through the tv and watch the PPV, still don’t know how much they will charge a non season ticket holder.  I think I’m as well cancelling my monthly audio subscription (as someone suggested before) and just pay the full ppv price.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Not a techie here but, I used to listen to hearts tv (audio) when I could not get to a game so, I have a smart LG tv and I’m sure I can log onto my account through the tv and watch the PPV, still don’t know how much they will charge a non season ticket holder.  I think I’m as well cancelling my monthly audio subscription (as someone suggested before) and just pay the full ppv price.

No idea what the quality of stream will be like for games this coming season but Hearts TV streams were better on a smaller device (ipad etc) than a TV.

[been here before]

11 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Anyone would think reading that hearts are unique.. every single club in Europe, and the vast majority of clubs on earth are in the same boat

 

Hiya Ann...

 

How many other clubs in Europe or on Earth offered the ST guarantee in such a veiled way? 

 

Since Im sure you're aware thats where the majority of the disatisfaction is coming from. 

 

All about the superdupermegaubering though.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by been here before

[Harry Potter]

9 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I imagine the home club has the broadcasting rights so won’t need our permission. 

Pretty much Dave.

[CostaJambo]

11 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Fair point. Although a lot of Hearts fans won't want to give money to the other teams. It'll be easier to boycott streaming games. However if Hearts are playing away at a pretty affordable price it'll be hard not to tune in. I assume they'll need our permission to broadcast our away games though so maybe there will be scope to negotiate a bigger cut? The idea of these clubs gaining financially from our larger online audience doesn't sit well.

One potential option which MIGHT work out would be to get a Hearts World £5.99 per month sub and watch away games on a recorded basis IF the club is allowed to upload these in full after the game. You don't get to watch live but then again you don't have to give the away team any money either. If you have a strong will and can manage to hide away from the result for a few hours you can still watch "live" as soon as it gets uploaded. 

[Nobreath]

4 hours ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

PPV won’t garner much income. Streams will be all over the internet.

If I can't find a free stream I will not be watching Hearts away.