Covid protocols - ‘Govt money wanted’

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, farin said:

 

The blazers at the spfl. 

 

 

Cheers for posting that report, Farin.       Presumably Rod's JRG came up with that gem ?      Makes you wonder if JA is now thinking - "Why did I even bother offering to fund testing for all 42 clubs." .......... and what Jason Leitch and his scientific/medical chums think of the SPFL "plan".

 

Beyond absurd. 

 

 

 

 

[Rods]

The countdown to the shafting begins. I just hope some clubs vote with us when it comes to crunch. 

[kingantti1874]

This isn’t to be celebrated imo.. yes we will probably survive.. but will

not be easy and the damage will be huge.

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Rods said:

The countdown to the shafting begins. I just hope some clubs vote with us when it comes to crunch. 

what do you think we will be voting on? 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

what do you think we will be voting on? 

Play bcd or not, I imagine. 

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Rods said:

I think promotion and relegation are safe. The SPFL argued in court that it was fundamental to football. 

They did (or at least their QC did) ...... but do you really think these bandits can be relied upon to adhere to it if an "inconvenient situation" arises ?   Like a club with a rep on the SPFL board is at the bottom of the Prem when the league gets canned ?

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Rods said:

The countdown to the shafting begins. I just hope some clubs vote with us when it comes to crunch. 

 

They can try and get a couple of kicks in while we're down, but we'll be back with steel. We're in a better position to see this through than most, it'll be us dancing on their graves not the other way round.

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Play bcd or not, I imagine. 

i don’t even think it will be a vote.. teams will unilaterally declare that they can’t play.. it will not be limited to the SPFL unless there is outside help for premiership.

[Rods]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

what do you think we will be voting on? 

The lower leagues to be started. The SPFL board can’t decide what happens. It will have to be a vote. Clubs like us, Dundee, Dunfermline have spent money to start the league so hopefully the championship goes ahead. I do fear for Partick and Falkirk though. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Rods

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, henryheart said:

I don't see First and Second Division clubs as being under significant threat if they play their cards right. Most are part time and players at that level are not daft - they know they are not the greatest and for most all they earn is pin money. Most players will accept being paid expenses for the season rather than not playing at all. The big threat is to lower league outfits that are full time and those Championship clubs that are full time and have no financial backing or reserves; players have greater expectations and frankly I don't know how these clubs make ends meet on 1-3,000 crowds as it is. 

Presumably you're looking at this from a financial point of view ?   But  these players are part-time and also have some kind of job - so they are arguably at greater risk of contracting Covid, and will quite possibly  not be getting tested by their club.  So from a Covid point of view,  aren't these part-time clubs at greater risk of going under due to possibly having to postpone/cancel matches ?  Ironically, your reasoning suggests they might have a better chance of surviving if they mothball completely.

[rudiatemyhamster]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Couldn't disagree more. Football is just another business and doesn't deserve a penny of government money. There is enough cash swilling around in English Premiership to see all of their clubs survive, and it is up to them to arrange it.

 

In Scotland, not as much money but the clubs had the chance to sort things out in summer and refused to help each other, preferring instead to look after themselves only. That being the case, I for one object to one penny of tax payers money going to bail out these halfwitted incompetents.

Spot on - Ann Budge seen it coming.  Get all the professional teams together and try and survive a season.  Unbelievable there is a senior person in the game now moaning.  It just shows you how incompetent the leaders of the Scootixf game are 

[davemclaren]

38 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

i don’t even think it will be a vote.. teams will unilaterally declare that they can’t play.. it will not be limited to the SPFL unless there is outside help for premiership.

There was a vote to go to a shortened season so I would expect a vote to have no season. That way the SPFL can say it’s the will of the clubs. 

[davemclaren]

33 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Presumably you're looking at this from a financial point of view ?   But  these players are part-time and also have some kind of job - so they are arguably at greater risk of contracting Covid, and will quite possibly  not be getting tested by their club.  So from a Covid point of view,  aren't these part-time clubs at greater risk of going under due to possibly having to postpone/cancel matches ?  Ironically, your reasoning suggests they might have a better chance of surviving if they mothball completely.

Will the players want to risk their full time income by playing football for £50/£100 a game?

[Zico]

Ironically, the calls of Hearts being all about self-interest, when what we were looking for was to minimise harm across Scottish football, is going to come and bite those who were truly self-interested squarely on the arse. The lack of leadership, strategy and vision that we’ve seen for years, exemplified this March, will destroy the game in this country. I hope they’re proud. 

[Paolo]

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

What a mish mash of pish and hope the best **** nugget policy. 

 

What if we catch it from a lower division team then the team gets wiped out before say we play hibs in the sf. 

 

Ridiculous and prejudice. 

 

As it is we could do everything right, play some shit team in the bet fred or league, catch it from the part time untested players with no knowledge then test before the sf and have the team go down with positive covid tests. 

 

What a ****ing farce. 

 

I hate Scottish football, still 50/50 whether to pack it in and become a epl fan boy. 

 

 

Basically, we could follow all advice, test regularly and remain clean.   Other opposition don’t, or can’t.  Through no fault of our own, we could end up with infected players, and forfeit a cup game as a result.   A game which could be the semi final, or even final.  

[Boris]

9 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Already have through furlow. Is it any different to music or drama in having a highly paid elite and most scraping by?

Furlough I would allow clubs to get, but govt capital injection to keep the lights on? Unless govt was doing this for every single business, then no.

[1971fozzy]

8 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I know it’s the record but.. here we go!! 
 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-football-faces-catastrophic-collapse-22726226

karma.  

[Gmcjambo]

I'm all for a bit of karma but we are in a very perilous situation though and we need to be 'careful what we wish for' .  It's entirely possible that any resources or meaningful support simply go to the SPL clubs to keep the top division going and we're cast further adrift.    This is the worst possible time to be outside of the SPL.      It may well be the only division that completes the season, therefore no promotion or relegation and the financial impacts on us vs SPL clubs will become critical for us.   We're in a perilous situation in the Championship. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Gmcjambo

[Paolo]

24 minutes ago, Boris said:

Furlough I would allow clubs to get, but govt capital injection to keep the lights on? Unless govt was doing this for every single business, then no.

State Aid and bailouts, whist not banned, are restricted under EU law, and I think we still have to follow those rules for now.   Not sure if they have been relaxed because of COVID.  IF not, I am not sure if football clubs qualifies.  
 

Regardless, I am not sure there would be a majority of public support for it.  Especially if clubs are paying big wages and transfer fees for players, whilst cutting staff costs elsewhere. 

[S Form]

6 minutes ago, Gmcjambo said:

I'm all for a bit of karma but we are in a very perilous situation though and we need to be 'careful what we wish for' .  It's entirely possible that any resources or meaningful support simply go to the SPL clubs to keep the top division going and we're cast further adrift.    This is the worst possible time to be outside of the SPL.      It may well be the only division that completes the season, therefore no promotion or relegation and the financial impacts on us vs SPL clubs will become critical for us.   We're in a perilous situation in the Championship. 

I agree. The SG is likely to offer some help to football, though it won’t be enough to allow four leagues to complete. Smaller clubs might be happy to get some cash and mothball while things blow over and Premiership teams will make sure they receive the majority of what’s on offer. We’ll be stuck in the middle, powerless to do anything about it while receiving ‘sympathy’ for our plight from the rest.

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, S Form said:

I agree. The SG is likely to offer some help to football, though it won’t be enough to allow four leagues to complete. Smaller clubs might be happy to get some cash and mothball while things blow over and Premiership teams will make sure they receive the majority of what’s on offer. We’ll be stuck in the middle, powerless to do anything about it while receiving ‘sympathy’ for our plight from the rest.

if there is any help it will need to come from U.K. gov.. and it needs to be the same help as is given to English clubs.. we all pay the same tax into the same pot..

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

if there is any help it will need to come from U.K. gov.. and it needs to be the same help as is given to English clubs.. we all pay the same tax into the same pot..

We actually pay more tax into our own pot so it should come from the Scottish government. 

[S Form]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

if there is any help it will need to come from U.K. gov.. and it needs to be the same help as is given to English clubs.. we all pay the same tax into the same pot..

I think that when it came to theatres and live venues there were different levels of help from the UK and Scottish governments. Plus, I think there will be more pressure on the EPL to be lending a hand rather than receiving a handout, considering the vast amounts it has sloshing around. Here, I believe even the OF will be feeling the pinch.

[manaliveits105]

Speaking as a taxpayer these snakey Premier League teams should not get one penny from the government  

burn ya *******s 

[The Old Tolbooth]

26 minutes ago, Gmcjambo said:

I'm all for a bit of karma but we are in a very perilous situation though and we need to be 'careful what we wish for' .  It's entirely possible that any resources or meaningful support simply go to the SPL clubs to keep the top division going and we're cast further adrift.    This is the worst possible time to be outside of the SPL.      It may well be the only division that completes the season, therefore no promotion or relegation and the financial impacts on us vs SPL clubs will become critical for us.   We're in a perilous situation in the Championship. 

 

I get where you're coming from, but I'll take my chances I reckon, after all, Mr Anderson has guaranteed our personal financial safety for the next 5 years, and watching others burn around us could be very entertaining indeed! 

 

I hope they've got a big spoon for all that medicine they're about to be taking  

[indianajones]

Bin the season and force reconstruction with teams that can actually compete. 

 

It was the only way 4 months ago and its still the only way. 

[maroonedinoz]

Assuming the start of our league is delayed, would they expect us to front up for the semi final without having played a competitive league game, or would the semi be postponed/cancelled?

[Whatever]

I mean it was pretty ****in obvious how this was going to play out. It was said on here often enough. 2 years in the Championship at a minimum.

 

Scottish football in voting to demote us, voted to attempt to kill us.

 

I for one will never forget.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Can’t see any reason why they don’t just end the season now, team need the prize money distributed ASAP 

 

Well done Rangers for stopping 10 in a row, commiserations to livi who are now relegated as per precedent set last season.

 

And congratulations to Alloa for hard fought promotion 

 

 

[OmiyaHearts]

19 minutes ago, maroonedinoz said:

Assuming the start of our league is delayed, would they expect us to front up for the semi final without having played a competitive league game, or would the semi be postponed/cancelled?

St Mirren would have been forced to play without a keeper in the league, so I don't think they'll care if we've played a competitive match before the semi.

[AndrewB]

5 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Can’t see any reason why they don’t just end the season now, team need the prize money distributed ASAP 

 

Well done Rangers for stopping 10 in a row, commiserations to livi who are now relegated as per precedent set last season.

 

And congratulations to Alloa for hard fought promotion 

 

 

No, Celtic would win it on PPG.

[DETTY29]

14 minutes ago, maroonedinoz said:

Assuming the start of our league is delayed, would they expect us to front up for the semi final without having played a competitive league game, or would the semi be postponed/cancelled?

It's unbelievable to think that let's say Hearts decide to put everyone on the staff in a bubble for the next few months, with no contact with outside world, still testing all staff twice a week, and all negative could either:-

 

A) Be asked to play the semi final without playing a competitive game, or even any more external friendlies, if all non elite games are suspended, assuming Premiership and Scottish Cup (19/20) are the only competitions remaining considered elite, with us being an elite club due to our testing regime protocols.

 

or 

 

B ) Football continues as exempt, with testing not mandated and in the period betwen the Arbroath league game and the semi, a few players test positive, leading to a near squad lockdown, but games goes ahead with 11 starts and 2 subs.

[soonbe110]

24 minutes ago, maroonedinoz said:

Assuming the start of our league is delayed, would they expect us to front up for the semi final without having played a competitive league game, or would the semi be postponed/cancelled?

Has to be postponed.  Makes no sense to play it without fans in any case. It can be moved to next Spring because there’s probably not going to be a 2021 cup final so the 2020 can take its place. 

[soonbe110]

10 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Can’t see any reason why they don’t just end the season now, team need the prize money distributed ASAP 

 

Well done Rangers for stopping 10 in a row, commiserations to livi who are now relegated as per precedent set last season.

 

And congratulations to Alloa for hard fought promotion 

 

 

There’s no prize money available if the games are not played. Sky won’t pay out if they have no football to broadcast. The Scottish government have to allow the premier league to continue and they probably have to fund the lower leagues to an extent. 

[The White Cockade]

Sad times 

People really want a load of clubs to disappear?

Could be us but even if not what kind of league would we be left playing in 

Get a grip 

This could be the end of professional football in Scotland and we’d go down with it

This is a time to leave squabbles behind and all work together which yes should have happened 6 months ago but must happen now

 

[DETTY29]

11 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Can’t see any reason why they don’t just end the season now, team need the prize money distributed ASAP 

 

Well done Rangers for stopping 10 in a row, commiserations to livi who are now relegated as per precedent set last season.

 

And congratulations to Alloa for hard fought promotion 

 

 

Don't kid about notably the final sentence.  Alloa are represented on both SFA and SPFL committees.  Anything is possible.

[DETTY29]

Just now, The White Cockade said:

Sad times 

People really want a load of clubs to disappear?

Could be us but even if not what kind of league would we be left playing in 

Get a grip 

This could be the end of professional football in Scotland and we’d go down with it

This is a time to leave squabbles behind and all work together which yes should have happened 6 months ago but must happen now

 

The rational person inside me agrees (a bit like the Zlamal loan) but as we witnessed 6 months ago, all rational thought and fairness goes out of the window in a members voting association.  Even a (low) multi million pound company one.

[Whatever]

1 minute ago, The White Cockade said:

Sad times 

People really want a load of clubs to disappear?

Could be us but even if not what kind of league would we be left playing in 

Get a grip 

This could be the end of professional football in Scotland and we’d go down with it

This is a time to leave squabbles behind and all work together which yes should have happened 6 months ago but must happen now

 

Nah. I want carnage.

 

I’ll take my chances we’re still standing long after many are consigned to Third Lanark status.
 

**** them all.

[OldGorgie]

9 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

They can try and get a couple of kicks in while we're down, but we'll be back with steel. We're in a better position to see this through than most, it'll be us dancing on their graves not the other way round.

Have to agree. The other clubs basically hung us out to dry so they can hardly complain now it’s their turn. After all the likes of St Midden can always turn to their vast fan base for money.

[Gmcjambo]

46 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

I get where you're coming from, but I'll take my chances I reckon, after all, Mr Anderson has guaranteed our personal financial safety for the next 5 years, and watching others burn around us could be very entertaining indeed! 

 

I hope they've got a big spoon for all that medicine they're about to be taking  

One things for sure and that is Budge will have budgeted for no fans this year (think she said as much) but she will also have planned for the scenario of no fans for the season.   Different views about her on here but her strength is running a business and we're fortunate in that respect - most other clubs will be sticking their heads in the sand and hoping for the best,  she will be planned and prepared even if it is painful.

[AndrewB]

So why did the West Ham game go ahead yet the Leyton Orient game get postponed?  Are there actually any clear rules? 

If they are making them up as they go along in England, what hope for Scottish football?

[DETTY29]

8 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

So why did the West Ham game go ahead yet the Leyton Orient game get postponed?  Are there actually any clear rules? 

If they are making them up as they go along in England, what hope for Scottish football?

I've only quickly looked at BBC but LO weren't testing, but did in advance of the Spurs game.  As a result a number (non specific) staff have tested positive.  LO have shut down their training camp and are seeking PHE advice.

 

West Ham will have been testing all along and fairly confident as matters stand it is restricted to the 3 staff involved.

Edited September 23, 2020 by DETTY29

[The Old Tolbooth]

25 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Sad times 

People really want a load of clubs to disappear?

Could be us but even if not what kind of league would we be left playing in 

Get a grip 

This could be the end of professional football in Scotland and we’d go down with it

This is a time to leave squabbles behind and all work together which yes should have happened 6 months ago but must happen now

 

 

I used to think like that, but not any more, there will always be a top flight to play in in Scotland because Rangers and Celtic get looked after with special treatment, of that you can be assured, and Hearts will be there to be part of it if and when it does all go tits up. It's madness to even consider letting fans back into games right now, and we're now approaching the critical point for clubs where furlough ends, and crowds can't come along, and all those tinpot little outfits that shafted us over will be the first to suffer, and rightly so, we may lose one or two top flight clubs, but sadly, I doubt it. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by The Old Tolbooth

[SE16 3LN]

It was very likely that this was going to happen. We knew it in March but rather than working together as one SPFL, the suits, chairman/owners and the SFA thought they knew better, did what Celtic wanted, ring fenced the TV money, protected the top 12 and chucked us and others under a bus. It was short sighted and amateur in the extreme and they will regret their selfish approach. 

 

There may be a case for the smaller clubs to get a bailout, although personally I think it should come from Celtic and the Covid 12. **** them all.

 

[SE16 3LN]

16 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

So why did the West Ham game go ahead yet the Leyton Orient game get postponed?  Are there actually any clear rules? 

If they are making them up as they go along in England, what hope for Scottish football?

West Ham are supported by Boris and the tax payer, its that simple.

[Jammy T]

11 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

What a mish mash of pish and hope the best **** nugget policy. 

 

What if we catch it from a lower division team then the team gets wiped out before say we play hibs in the sf. 

 

Ridiculous and prejudice. 

 

As it is we could do everything right, play some shit team in the bet fred or league, catch it from the part time untested players with no knowledge then test before the sf and have the team go down with positive covid tests. 

 

What a ****ing farce. 

 

I hate Scottish football, still 50/50 whether to pack it in and become a epl fan boy. 

 

 

 

I wonder if, to protect our squad, our benefactor will offer to pay for testing for our opponents in the week before playing them - no doubt that offer would be rejected just in case any of the players had to drop out. That's the way it works in Scotland.

 

1 hour ago, Gmcjambo said:

I'm all for a bit of karma but we are in a very perilous situation though and we need to be 'careful what we wish for' .  It's entirely possible that any resources or meaningful support simply go to the SPL clubs to keep the top division going and we're cast further adrift.    This is the worst possible time to be outside of the SPL.      It may well be the only division that completes the season, therefore no promotion or relegation and the financial impacts on us vs SPL clubs will become critical for us.   We're in a perilous situation in the Championship. 

 

38 minutes ago, Whatever said:

I mean it was pretty ****in obvious how this was going to play out. It was said on here often enough. 2 years in the Championship at a minimum.

 

Scottish football in voting to demote us, voted to attempt to kill us.

 

I for one will never forget.

 

I for one will never understand.

 

Other than Hibs, I simply dont understand why most of Scottish football would want to cause such damage to the 3rd most important club in Scotland financially (if you think about for example the amount of away fans we take and do appear to genuinely generate interest for Sky when you look at viewing figures for our games)

 

Why?

[The Gorgie]

Real Madrid player tests positive, second test is negative. Wonder how many people have test positively but don't have. It's all ****ed up.

[Jamhammer]

18 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

So why did the West Ham game go ahead yet the Leyton Orient game get postponed?  Are there actually any clear rules? 

If they are making them up as they go along in England, what hope for Scottish football?

Glad though I am it did I can't understand it. Surely the manager has been in contact with all of em, albeit outside probably. Odd

[Weakened Offender]

29 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Sad times 

People really want a load of clubs to disappear?

Could be us but even if not what kind of league would we be left playing in 

Get a grip 

This could be the end of professional football in Scotland and we’d go down with it

This is a time to leave squabbles behind and all work together which yes should have happened 6 months ago but must happen now

 

 

Apologies in advance but I want chaos. **** them all. 

[NANOJAMBO]

54 minutes ago, maroonedinoz said:

Assuming the start of our league is delayed, would they expect us to front up for the semi final without having played a competitive league game, or would the semi be postponed/cancelled?

Who knows.

If the Championship doesn't start as planned in October (and I don' t see how it can without paying customers) I hope Hearts tell the SPFL/SFA they are effectively putting the players into hibernation until such times as they come up with a plan to see the season out (in some shape or form ) or not. Hearts are as entitled as any other club to cut costs in their bid to survive and  the idea that we'd carry on regardless (ie no league games for the foreseeable future) but continue to rack up costs just for two potential cup ties is a joke. It's not fair on the players and it undermines the integrity of the competition. 

 

If it reaches the point that Hearts have played no league games but are required to turn up at Hampden for the semi final then I hope the club makes it clear they won't risk injury to senior players and just send the youth team.