Covid protocols - ‘Govt money wanted’

[Gorgie Boot boy]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

True. Hamilton, St Mirren, Livvy... Even Aberdeen said they couldn't survive with no crowds. This yet again shows how reconstructing the leagues, and looking closely at the timings ie delaying the start closer to when crowds might be back as the Championship did, with only teams that can afford to play with no crowds was the thing to explore. Even if we ended up with one 10 team league playing and everyone else mothballed and given financial support. But it was never even considered because... Celtic and their 9 in a row, Celtic and their 10 in a row, Celtic in Europe..... Staring the Premiership August 1st was a nonsense given it was obvious how long it would be before crowds were back.

 

We should have focused on finishing the previous season and properly explored reconstruction and later starting dates, with the key question for every club before making any decisions being "How long can you play with no crowds?" with their answer backed up by crunched financial numbers. The SPFL just acted like there was no pandemic and it was business as usual for the new season.

The smaller supported sides are used to dealing with low attendances at home games, they operate at a loss anyway. They will miss the away support of some clubs this season, ie the tramps and sheep. It is clubs like Aberdeen the vermin and Motherwell that will take the big dig. The tramps are also in line to take a massive hit on merchandise on day sales within the stadiums. The governing football bodies are in need of a clean out, the opportunity was and is still there. The fact a couple of simpletons get big bucks to rule the roost is shocking when you think that most fans do not have money to waste on the value of product that is on offer.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, PapaShango said:

Not a chance if we get more restrictions that the season in our league will play out. The SPFL will do all they can to make sure the top league continues while not bothering about the rest. I suspect the majority of clubs will be quite happy at that as they won't have funds to test or keep the clubs open with the no fans coming in. 

 

As someone else said even Premiership clubs may not be able to continue with no crowds this season. Lower league clubs at least have much lower costs and lower expectations of fans at games. Hamilton, Ross County etc rely on those big pay days when the OF, Hearts (ironically), Hibs, etc come to their patch and have budgets and wage bills that take that into account.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

16 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

The smaller supported sides are used to dealing with low attendances at home games, they operate at a loss anyway. They will miss the away support of some clubs this season, ie the tramps and sheep. It is clubs like Aberdeen the vermin and Motherwell that will take the big dig. The tramps are also in line to take a massive hit on merchandise on day sales within the stadiums. The governing football bodies are in need of a clean out, the opportunity was and is still there. The fact a couple of simpletons get big bucks to rule the roost is shocking when you think that most fans do not have money to waste on the value of product that is on offer.

 

I don't see how clubs like Livvy and Hamilton can play on and meet their wage bills with no crowds. Not sure if Hamilton even sold STs. Said this a while back. Hamilton getting demoted might actually have been much better for them financially than staying up. But they voted themselves to stay up so there you go.

Edited September 21, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Gorgie Boot boy]

9 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I don't see how clubs like Livvy and Hamilton can play on and meet their wage bills with no crowds. Not sure if Hamilton even sold STs. Said this a while back. Hamilton getting demoted might actually have been much better for them financially than staying up. But they voted themselves to stay up so there you go.

The lack of support is the whole point to why they may be able to get through it, in effect being used to cost cutting etc. I've no idea if those clubs have other monies holding them up.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Gorgie Boot boy

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

The lack of support is the whole point to why they may be able to get through it, in effect being used to cost cutting etc. I've no idea if those clubs have other monies holding them up.

 

Livingston and Motherwell sold players. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Livingston and Motherwell sold players. 

 Did they invest in players to replace those sold ? What is your opinion of the level of players sold , how much did they go for ,  are the replacements any better than what is already at those clubs you mention. So many ways to look at gathering funds to stay afloat. I hope they all suffer and close. Not sure who i want to go first , a mass of choices on that topic.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Gorgie Boot boy

[Mikey1874]

15 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

 Did they invest in players to replace those sold ? What is your opinion of the level of players sold , how much did they go for ,  are the replacements any better than what is already at those clubs you mention. So many ways to look at gathering funds to stay afloat. I hope they all suffer and close. Not sure who i want to go first , a mass of choices on that topic.

 

No

 

Just that they've got enough to survive this season. Aberdeen too with McKenna.

 

See if Dundee United sell Shankland now.

[DETTY29]

Hearts are going to end up having to pay for testing for all the Championship clubs to ensure we have opponents to play, aren't we?

 

😄

 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

No

 

Just that they've got enough to survive this season. Aberdeen too with McKenna.

 

See if Dundee United sell Shankland now.

It is all up for debate.Who is in for Shankland. He scored a opportunist goal against the lay downers, maybe that will attract extra suitors.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Hearts are going to end up having to pay for testing for all the Championship clubs to ensure we have opponents to play, aren't we?

 

😄

 

Yes

[Guest ToqueJambo]

14 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Hearts are going to end up having to pay for testing for all the Championship clubs to ensure we have opponents to play, aren't we?

 

😄

 

 

When the SPFL came out and said testing was not a requirement in the lower leagues, I was thinking we might for our opponents in order to protect our own players and our own investment in testing. The whole league - every team and every game though? Just how deep are Mr Anderson's pockets!

 

But imagine if we pay for Arbroath players to get tested before our game wit them and a few test positive. What then? We get awarded the game? They have to play an even more weakened side? Arbroath cry foul because no other teams are getting tested except them that day.? And would you have to assume all the other teams might have a similar number of positive cases in their squads?

 

What this is doing is once again showing up that decision to hastily call the league, reject reconstruction and rush into the next season with no real plan (other than "hoping" crowds would be back in October) to be the big steaming pile of shit decision we knew it was at the time.

 

I mean the SPFL doesn't even have a contingency plan for ending the league should things get really bad again.

Edited September 21, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Gizmo]

They could have tested protocols and crowd ingress / egress from hub stadiums for weeks. Plenty clubs who could fit their entire fan base in with socially distanced crowds in Hampden or Murrayfield. The practicalities would be a pain but not insurmountable for a ruling body with a bit of gumption and drive to solve problems. 
 

instead Scottish football will wither and die whilst Doncaster sits there with a gormless expression and MacLennan misses it all burning down due to his myopia not allowing him to see beyond Celtic park.

 

 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

but when can the Selkirk fans get back in ?

[Mikey1874]

20 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Hearts are going to end up having to pay for testing for all the Championship clubs to ensure we have opponents to play, aren't we?

 

😄

 

 

We already did through James Anderson.

 

Another donation probably on it's way. 

[Mikey1874]

Agree testing players is good for us.

 

Weaken the opposition when players test positive.

[Beast Boy]

31 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Hearts are going to end up having to pay for testing for all the Championship clubs to ensure we have opponents to play, aren't we?

 

😄

 

Said the same thing a couple days/pages ago. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Agree testing players is good for us.

 

Weaken the opposition when players test positive.

 

If only us test every game and we pay for testing of our opponents only, can you see our opposition crying "unfair" if their players test positive and they have to play us with a weakened side, while other teams are possibly allowed to play with positive cases in the squad? I can. It would be entirely consistent with the "me, me, me" attitude of Scottish clubs. You could actually see the SPFL telling us NOT to test for "fairness" reasons. 🤣

[David McCaig]

A quick read of this thread should really be putting the moaning about physical attendance v streams into context.

 

Hearts have costs to pay to continue functioning as a professional business at a time when not only will there be no crowds this season and virtually no tv income, but there is also an increasing likelihood that the Championship won’t happen at all, which means no promotion and having to compete in 2021/2022s  Championship with no ST revenue and once again no tv income.

 

Make no mistake, the club under greatest final pressure at the moment is us.  For all our complaints about being taken for a ride over ST purchases (and I dont think we have been, despite buying 3 x platinum tickets), when push comes to shove, we are going to be relying on the likes of Ann Budge and James Anderson showing 7 figure loyalty for Hearts to survive if this season doesn’t go ahead.

[Lfhearts]

38 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Yes

No

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

A quick read of this thread should really be putting the moaning about physical attendance v streams into context.

 

Hearts have costs to pay to continue functioning as a professional business at a time when not only will there be no crowds this season and virtually no tv income, but there is also an increasing likelihood that the Championship won’t happen at all, which means no promotion and having to compete in 2021/2022s  Championship with no ST revenue and once again no tv income.

 

Make no mistake, the club under greatest final pressure at the moment is us.  For all our complaints about being taken for a ride over ST purchases (and I dont think we have been, despite buying 3 x platinum tickets), when push comes to shove, we are going to be relying on the likes of Ann Budge and James Anderson showing 7 figure loyalty for Hearts to survive if this season doesn’t go ahead.

 

Well said. I haven't looked at the complaints over Zlamal and streaming.

 

I do note that Ann Budge has said we can get through this season. And I'm pretty sure that have a plan around no promotion this season. 

 

How many clubs are still going for start of next season though. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

12 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

No

 

48 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

When the SPFL came out and said testing was not a requirement in the lower leagues, I was thinking we might for our opponents in order to protect our own players and our own investment in testing. The whole league - every team and every game though? Just how deep are Mr Anderson's pockets!

 

But imagine if we pay for Arbroath players to get tested before our game wit them and a few test positive. What then? We get awarded the game? They have to play an even more weakened side? Arbroath cry foul because no other teams are getting tested except them that day.? And would you have to assume all the other teams might have a similar number of positive cases in their squads?

 

What this is doing is once again showing up that decision to hastily call the league, reject reconstruction and rush into the next season with no real plan (other than "hoping" crowds would be back in October) to be the big steaming pile of shit decision we knew it was at the time.

 

I mean the SPFL doesn't even have a contingency plan for ending the league should things get really bad again.

Hearts will maybe test opponents for Home games, if those sides cannot do so themselves. Not sure if Hearts have any say in the matter to be honest. I answered a post relating to would we pay for the tests. There are a load of issues going on due to restrictions. Near every question on football we may be playing and the players we might or do sign, is also down to the same restrictions. We will find out soon enough as the first competitive matches take place. James is not the sole Benefactor backing the club.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Gorgie Boot boy

[maroonsgotop]

2 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

If the championship isn’t played then how do they then go ahead with the Scottish cup? If we aren’t able to play competitive games then surely, even the ****ing SFA have to consider voiding the competition?

they'll probably exclude us and give Hibs a bye into the final. That would be par for the course with this bunch of clowns who are meant to be running Scottish Football

[Fraggle]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

Hearts are going to end up having to pay for testing for all the Championship clubs to ensure we have opponents to play, aren't we?

 

😄

 

I thought we had already done that (in a round about way) with Mr. Anderson's generous donation to the league's!!??

[Auldreekie1874]

There’s an FA cup qualifier currently being played and available on the bbc red button.  It has a 2,000 crowd with no social distancing  apparent.

 

Seems strange.
 

😷⚽😷
 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, Fraggle said:

I thought we had already done that (in a round about way) with Mr. Anderson's generous donation to the league's!!??

 

They seem to have blown it on drugs and hookers, or something.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

A quick read of this thread should really be putting the moaning about physical attendance v streams into context.

 

Hearts have costs to pay to continue functioning as a professional business at a time when not only will there be no crowds this season and virtually no tv income, but there is also an increasing likelihood that the Championship won’t happen at all, which means no promotion and having to compete in 2021/2022s  Championship with no ST revenue and once again no tv income.

 

Make no mistake, the club under greatest final pressure at the moment is us.  For all our complaints about being taken for a ride over ST purchases (and I dont think we have been, despite buying 3 x platinum tickets), when push comes to shove, we are going to be relying on the likes of Ann Budge and James Anderson showing 7 figure loyalty for Hearts to survive if this season doesn’t go ahead.

We know all this.

[David McCaig]

11 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

We know all this.

You would think so, but still people threatening to take the club to court or boycott season 2021/2022.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

19 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

You would think so, but still people threatening to take the club to court or boycott season 2021/2022.

Or to put it another way, people asking for better communication.

[SMJ_1874]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They seem to have blown it on drugs and hookers, or something.

There’s worse things to spend your money on I guess 

[Fort Vallance]

4 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

This is honestly beyond my comprehension.  What are clubs like Raith and Arbroath living off?  Do they have any employees being paid?  What are their sources of income, if any?

 

Simply can't understand it.

No idea about Raith and don't really care. But Arbroath have very few outgoings at the moment. Day to day stuff being done committee members and supporters who aren't taking a wage. Players are all part time and low basic. They'll be ok for a while yet. 

[Kiwidoug]

While I want to see the clubs which voted for our expulsion punished, I do feel sorry for their supporters.  Not their fault.  The exception of course is Hibernian whose supporters wanted us deid 

[hunts]

Starting to think there will be no championship season or at least it won’t be played to a conclusion.  Where that leaves us in terms of player salaries etc I have no idea, but if the SPFL see the chance to keep us down they’ll take it.

 

No relegation or promotion, can see it now.

[Nookie Bear]

29 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

While I want to see the clubs which voted for our expulsion punished, I do feel sorry for their supporters.  Not their fault.  The exception of course is Hibernian whose supporters wanted us deid 

Spend a few minutes online on various forums and you’ll change your tune quickly enough. 
 

They can all burn. 

[Kiwidoug]

26 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Spend a few minutes online on various forums and you’ll change your tune quickly enough. 
 

They can all burn. 

Very interesting.  Thanks for that.  To my surprise I'm still blazing angry at what was done to Partick, Cove and ourselves via the corrupt, bribery vote and I wish them long-lasting misery.

[braveheart]

4 hours ago, David McCaig said:

A quick read of this thread should really be putting the moaning about physical attendance v streams into context.

 

Hearts have costs to pay to continue functioning as a professional business at a time when not only will there be no crowds this season and virtually no tv income, but there is also an increasing likelihood that the Championship won’t happen at all, which means no promotion and having to compete in 2021/2022s  Championship with no ST revenue and once again no tv income.

 

Make no mistake, the club under greatest final pressure at the moment is us.  For all our complaints about being taken for a ride over ST purchases (and I dont think we have been, despite buying 3 x platinum tickets), when push comes to shove, we are going to be relying on the likes of Ann Budge and James Anderson showing 7 figure loyalty for Hearts to survive if this season doesn’t go ahead.

The only reason we're in the present predicament is because budge hasn't a clue how to run a football club.guess she owes that at least for all the mistakes she has made.

 

[SectionDJambo]

40 minutes ago, hunts said:

Starting to think there will be no championship season or at least it won’t be played to a conclusion.  Where that leaves us in terms of player salaries etc I have no idea, but if the SPFL see the chance to keep us down they’ll take it.

 

No relegation or promotion, can see it now.

The SPFL may need Hearts, and maybe even Dundee, in an extended league to keep Sky and other broadcasters happy. There’s not a lot of interest in the SPFL at the moment, as was shown by the complete lack of live coverage during the weekend that the EPL restarted. 
The lack of forward and realistic thinking for this season threatens to cause major damage to Scottish football. There must be a real chance of the Premiership suffering club losses through bankruptcy, and the silence from the Championship clubs, about getting started playing again, is deafening.

 That may suit Celtic, who still think that Desmond will manage to have them playing in a different league in the near future. They continually fail miserably in Europe, and need the income from a more lucrative league. The SPFL don’t even have a league sponsor, and Celtic seem happy with that. “Neil is a very capable guy”, they say, which makes you think there is an underlying long game being played.
As many others think, if they and Rangers ever manage to leave the Scottish league, they must be prevented from leaving behind “colts” teams. With their bigoted tentacles reaching into many of the smaller clubs, that will be a challenge.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

49 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Spend a few minutes online on various forums and you’ll change your tune quickly enough. 
 

They can all burn. 

 

For the first time ever following football I actually want a non-OF club (several really) to completely go out of business. It's a weird feeling. I never even wanted Hibs to go bust before. Those clubs have created so much ill will that will probably take a generation to get rid of.

[Footballfirst]

6 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

This is honestly beyond my comprehension.  What are clubs like Raith and Arbroath living off?  Do they have any employees being paid?  What are their sources of income, if any?

 

Simply can't understand it.

Arbroath has been funded since the lockdown by a series of small share issues. I don't know who is putting the money up but it just seems to be enough to cover their immediate needs.

31 March £9.600

17 April £7,300

30 April £2,400

23 May £1.100

31 May £500

4 June £900

30 June £2,100

4 September £1.800

[SectionFJambo]

Most of the smaller clubs had contracts which ended 31st May and won't have been playing players in between. Also I'd be surprised if those clubs didn't basically shut down and furlough everyone.

 

Add in the money from Anderson, ST and Fan contributions, Business rate/grant schemes and they've managed to limp through.

 

That change's when furlough ends, the season restarts and players need paid. Most will be screwed if the season doesn't start.

 

[Kiwidoug]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Arbroath has been funded since the lockdown by a series of small share issues. I don't know who is putting the money up but it just seems to be enough to cover their immediate needs.

31 March £9.600

17 April £7,300

30 April £2,400

23 May £1.100

31 May £500

4 June £900

30 June £2,100

4 September £1.800

Thanks  FF and thanks to the other posters who improved my understanding.  It's clearly hand to mouth time and you'd have to think if it goes on much longer clubs will go to the wall.  On both sides of the border.

[GinRummy]

7 hours ago, SectionFJambo said:

Most of the smaller clubs had contracts which ended 31st May and won't have been playing players in between. Also I'd be surprised if those clubs didn't basically shut down and furlough everyone.

 

Add in the money from Anderson, ST and Fan contributions, Business rate/grant schemes and they've managed to limp through.

 

That change's when furlough ends, the season restarts and players need paid. Most will be screwed if the season doesn't start.

 

Some of them will have had Bounce Back Loans (£50k max) as well. Dished out to practically any business with a couple of years accounts and nothing to pay for 12 months. Flat rate of 2.5% as well (first years interest paid by government). Decent cash for some of the tiddler clubs.

Edited September 22, 2020 by GinRummy

[Footballfirst]

4 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Thanks  FF and thanks to the other posters who improved my understanding.  It's clearly hand to mouth time and you'd have to think if it goes on much longer clubs will go to the wall.  On both sides of the border.

Forfar is another club living on regular handouts (remember that all clubs got a £50k windfall from James Anderson).

30 March £2,300

30 April £3,350

1 May £4,900

14 June £2,500

14 June £5,700

 

[highlandjambo3]

Chaos, carnage and mayhem......I want it all

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Forfar is another club living on regular handouts (remember that all clubs got a £50k windfall from James Anderson).

30 March £2,300

30 April £3,350

1 May £4,900

14 June £2,500

14 June £5,700

 

And the initial Sky payment was due end August. 

[GinRummy]

11 hours ago, David McCaig said:

You would think so, but still people threatening to take the club to court or boycott season 2021/2022.

Not many people though. Understandable why they are annoyed given the piss poor communication.

[Neil Dongcaster]

Fan return in October called off in England. I suspect it will be well into next year before any fans are in stadiums in the UK.

 

Writing in the wall for half the clubs in Scotland I suspect.

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

Fan return in October called off in England. I suspect it will be well into next year before any fans are in stadiums in the UK.

 

Writing in the wall for half the clubs in Scotland I suspect.

 

Yup, think these clubs were hoping to get some fans back in October to keep them above water but its clear that it could be a few more months without fans which could mean life or death for some clubs.

[Neil Dongcaster]

Just now, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Yup, think these clubs were hoping to get some fans back in October to keep them above water but its clear that it could be a few more months without fans which could mean life or death for some clubs.

Unfortunately I foresee a knock on effect with us. I’m unsure whether the league will start.

[jamboinglasgow]

Just now, Neil Dongcaster said:

Unfortunately I foresee a knock on effect with us. I’m unsure whether the league will start.

 

That is the fear, if I was Hearts, I would push the league to start and if other clubs cant play then its awarded 3-0 to the team that can play 

[Neil Dongcaster]

Just now, jamboinglasgow said:

 

That is the fear, if I was Hearts, I would push the league to start and if other clubs cant play then its awarded 3-0 to the team that can play 

We will be collateral damage. Again.