Covid protocols - ‘Govt money wanted’

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

I think your being overly optimistic tbh. I do agree that we'll be a lot more shielded from issues than other clubs though.

 

I don't believe it would be our choice to pause rent at Riccarton and I doubt they would agree to it. Operating costs would also still be there. Bills still need to be paid. Stadium upkeep, even if it's not being used, is still needed. Making people redundant costs money etc etc.

 

All clubs face this. We are without doubt in a stronger position to get through it. Certainly better than the other bigger clubs. Celtic have massive cash reserves. The others will have to rely on the generosity and commitment of their owners of hope their fan bases come through. Hibs, D Utd, Dundee.... how committed will those non fan owners be if the shit really hits the fan though? We should be extremely relieved to have a genuine fan in charge of our club.

Edited September 23, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Lovecraft]

[Jodami]

It's impossible to justify bailing football out when so many sectors are impacted by Covid. However, there is an election round the corner... 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, neilnunb said:

Oh here's Leanne to the rescue...

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6078899/hibs-dempster-spearhead-premiership-covid-crisis-summit/

 

🙄

 

If it was me, I'd pause everything and aim to restart in March with change to 'summer season'. *

 

* not sure Scottish football is capable of radical change 

 

I also know summer football raises lots of questions so like Reconstruction 'wouldn't be the right time'.

[Mikey1874]

This is not a criticism of the Scottish Government. 

 

But why do they need the UK Government to do something? Could it be they know what the Chancellor is about to announce measures that will help here? That is targeted 'post furlough' support for struggling industries. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

This is not a criticism of the Scottish Government. 

 

But why do they need the UK Government to do something? Could it be they know what the Chancellor is about to announce measures that will help here? That is targeted 'post furlough' support for struggling industries. 

 

Westminster control benefits and social security and most taxation, all the economic levers basically.

 

The Scottish gov could just find a chunk of money somewhere, but that would mean taking it from other programs or infrastructure they fund with pocket money from Westminster. But how do they scrape that money back if they don't control tax and other spending the way Westminster does?

[kingantti1874]

If U.K. gov helps teams in England they better ****ing help all teams in Scotland.. that is my tax as much as anyones

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Westminster control benefits and social security and most taxation, all the economic levers basically.

 

The Scottish gov could just find a chunk of money somewhere, but that would mean taking it from other programs or infrastructure they fund with pocket money from Westminster. But how do they scrape that money back if they don't control tax and other spending the way Westminster does?

 

Yeah

 

Scottish Government maybe at its limits. Has given more money to councils recently.

 

Just that the Scottish Government has given cash to some people eg Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Mikey1874

[davemclaren]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

This is not a criticism of the Scottish Government. 

 

But why do they need the UK Government to do something? Could it be they know what the Chancellor is about to announce measures that will help here? That is targeted 'post furlough' support for struggling industries. 

The UK govt is in discussions with sports bodies in England I believe. If there is a sports support package put in place and it’s new money then Scotland gets an equivalent amount. The Scottish government doesn’t have to use all, or any of it,  on Sport though. 

[Deevers]

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The UK govt is in discussions with sports bodies in England I believe. If there is a sports support package put in place and it’s new money then Scotland gets an equivalent amount. The Scottish government doesn’t have to use all, or any of it,  on Sport though. 

I honestly don’t think it will be that much, and I reckon the powers that be would be panned for handing out money to teams that have been spending lots of money recruiting new players on handsome salaries. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Deevers

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Deevers said:

I honestly don’t think it will be that much, and I reckon the powers that be would be panned for handing out money to teams that have been spending lots of mo ey recruiting new players on handsome salaries. 

I think you are right. 

[Pasquale for King]

52 minutes ago, Paolo said:

You’d think he’d be able to afford new teeth. 

A hair weave, plastic surgery and a fat farm wouldn’t go amiss either if we are going to be honest 😆. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

Is everyone who is called Neil in Scotland a complete and utter pratt?

Looks like it

1 hour ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

Certainly sounds like a bunch of clubs are going to go tits up.

 

Lmao.

 

🥰

[Guest ToqueJambo]

 

 

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The UK govt is in discussions with sports bodies in England I believe. If there is a sports support package put in place and it’s new money then Scotland gets an equivalent amount. The Scottish government doesn’t have to use all, or any of it,  on Sport though. 

 

 

The question then becomes, who gets the money? Distributed evenly or to the hardest hit, especially clubs that are not playing at all, or used to attempt to prop up the Premiership? I think we know the answer.

[Beast Boy]

33 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

I think your being overly optimistic tbh. I do agree that we'll be a lot more shielded from issues than other clubs though.

 

I don't believe it would be our choice to pause rent at Riccarton and I doubt they would agree to it. Operating costs would also still be there. Bills still need to be paid. Stadium upkeep, even if it's not being used, is still needed. Making people redundant costs money etc etc.

https://twnews.co.uk/gb-news/new-hearts-ceo-on-whether-club-could-survive-a-whole-season-with-no-fans

 

Hearts could survive going the entire 2020/21 Championship season without fans inside Tynecastle, but Andrew McKinlay admits it would make life difficult.

[Dennis Reynolds]

37 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

All clubs face this. We are without doubt in a stronger position to get through it. Certainly better than the other bigger clubs. Celtic have massive cash reserves. The others will have to rely on the generosity and commitment of their owners of hope their fan bases come through. Hibs, D Utd, Dundee.... how committed will those non fan owners be if the shit really hits the fan though? We should be extremely relieved to have a genuine fan in charge of our club.

 

Completely agree. I believe we'll come through this. Probably battered and bruised but we'll see the other side.

[Lone Striker]

32 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

All clubs face this. We are without doubt in a stronger position to get through it. Certainly better than the other bigger clubs. Celtic have massive cash reserves. The others will have to rely on the generosity and commitment of their owners of hope their fan bases come through. Hibs, D Utd, Dundee.... how committed will those non fan owners be if the shit really hits the fan though? We should be extremely relieved to have a genuine fan in charge of our club.

Thats a very good point.    👍   We should all be extremely relieved that Hearts have a wealthy  Edinburgh businesswoman in charge right now - one with wealthy contacts who have shown willingness to support us financially.       Contrast that with the new American owners of Hibs and the 2 Dundee clubs - as you say -  they're in it for financial reward, which has zero chance of materialising this year, or next year, or for several years to come.

 

[milky_26]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Something like that. I thought it was tax dodging in France but not sure if its still ongoing.

bit of both and the bank got a 80 million euro fine for it

 

https://newsoncompliance.com/desmond-bank-fined-e80m-in-laundering-case/

[DETTY29]

29 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

https://twnews.co.uk/gb-news/new-hearts-ceo-on-whether-club-could-survive-a-whole-season-with-no-fans

 

Hearts could survive going the entire 2020/21 Championship season without fans inside Tynecastle, but Andrew McKinlay admits it would make life difficult.

How much of that is based on no ST holder asking for refunds.....

Edited September 23, 2020 by DETTY29

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

How much of that is based on no ST holders asking for refunds.....

 

How many ST holders have indicated they want a refund?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Thats a very good point.    👍   We should all be extremely relieved that Hearts have a wealthy  Edinburgh businesswoman in charge right now - one with wealthy contacts who have shown willingness to support us financially.       Contrast that with the new American owners of Hibs and the 2 Dundee clubs - as you say -  they're in it for financial reward, which has zero chance of materialising this year, or next year, or for several years to come.

 

 

I'd be very nervous if I followed any of those three in particular.

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

How much of that is based on no ST holders asking for refunds.....

Christ... don’t pick at that scab ffs. You’re not allowed to point out the potentially catastrophic affect of that. You’ll end up with a crushing bore attached to you like a limpet. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Beast Boy said:

Christ... don’t pick at that scab ffs. You’re not allowed to point out the potentially catastrophic affect of that. You’ll end up with a crushing bore attached to you like a limpet. 

😂

[Pasquale for King]

56 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

If it was me, I'd pause everything and aim to restart in March with change to 'summer season'. *

 

* not sure Scottish football is capable of radical change 

 

I also know summer football raises lots of questions so like Reconstruction 'wouldn't be the right time'.

Euro 2020 with games at Hampden and the season having to finish in May might be a problem. 

 

42 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah

 

Scottish Government maybe at its limits. Has given more money to councils recently.

 

Just that the Scottish Government has given cash to some people eg Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

U.K. government can borrow more to bail businesses out, SG can’t. They gave a £16m loan to rugby league clubs so a precedent has been set. 

[DETTY29]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

How many ST holders have indicated they want a refund?

We don't know bit there is grumbling about it.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Beast Boy said:

Christ... don’t pick at that scab ffs. You’re not allowed to point out the potentially catastrophic affect of that. You’ll end up with a crushing bore attached to you like a limpet. 

Too late 😱😜

[Pasquale for King]

35 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

https://twnews.co.uk/gb-news/new-hearts-ceo-on-whether-club-could-survive-a-whole-season-with-no-fans

 

Hearts could survive going the entire 2020/21 Championship season without fans inside Tynecastle, but Andrew McKinlay admits it would make life difficult.

It’s good that they had looked at that scenario a few weeks ago, it seems to have been an almighty shock for the rest of Scottish Football 😆🙈. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

We don't know bit there is grumbling about it.

 

I don't know either but I thought someone from the club said there hadn't been many complaints? I think we're beyond discussing how games will be watched now anyhow. Doncaster has clearly said football isn't viable at all with no crowds (or funding). Lots of clubs could be facing refund calls.

[SE16 3LN]

13 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

bit of both and the bank got a 80 million euro fine for it

 

https://newsoncompliance.com/desmond-bank-fined-e80m-in-laundering-case/

Rich as he is, I don't think he'll be chucking money at Celtic anytime soon. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

It’s good that they had looked at that scenario already, it seems to have been an almighty shock for the rest of Scottish Football 😆🙈. 

We got pilloried for having the temerity to try and get everyone to work together for the greater good right from the get go. We have tried to act in the sport’s best interests from the start, but apparently we just need to take our medicine. Utter *****.

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

What the ****! 

 

He admits an "existential threat to many of our clubs" yet was more than happy to facilitate the unfair demotion of 3 clubs and block the potential promotion of others, thus increasing the threat to those clubs in a very deliberate and unnecessary fashion.

 

He and the other clubs were more than happy - they actually have laughed about it and continue to do so through official social media accounts -  to deprive those clubs of the "huge community, economic and sporting benefits they deliver" so their own clubs could avoid relegation, gain promotion and get in to Europe.

 

**** them all. **** them right ****itty ****itty off.

 

Who's squealing like pigs now eh?

The man has no sense of shame, and zero awareness of the irony in squealing about existential threats ...blah....blah.    The  Scottish football financial model is a  crumbling, unsafe and unhealthy  pyramid of TV and betting companies whose only interest is the  annual contest between the Bigot Brothers to see who comes out on top  - while the SPFL administer the distribution of  some  crumbs downwards.     Doncaster has proved over the last few weeks that he only cares about the Premier season and the precious Sky contract.     Hopefully the season gets canned with no Bigot Fests for Sky to cover - followed by a huge refund demand from Sky. 

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

The fact is, the corrupt 12 have done very little to cut their cloth and until/unless they do that they shouldn't even be begging to Boris. They know how much of their income comes from fans, they've known this was a possibility for months and they should have acted accordingly. No Govt. should fund frivolous business ventures with irresponsible owners. The fact they expelled us just makes this moment sweeter. Lets not forget how they reacted when we called for wage cuts when all this began. **** them all.

 

 

[DETTY29]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I don't know either but I thought someone from the club said there hadn't been many complaints? I think we're beyond discussing how games will be watched now anyhow. Doncaster has clearly said football isn't viable at all with no crowds (or funding). Lots of clubs could be facing refund calls.

I don't know how each club has packaged their streaming v. carry forward season tickets v. refunds v. broken promises.

 

But we know Hearts have broken at best an 'inferred' promise that other clubs don't appear to have done that has hit any main form of media.  But that may yet cone to pass.

 

But I agree there will be clubs in serious crap based on even not looking much further than a best case scenario.  E.g.  The Championship starting when furlough ended and crowds back.

 

 

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

The man has no sense of shame, and zero awareness of the irony in squealing about existential threats ...blah....blah.    The  Scottish football financial model is a  crumbling, unsafe and unhealthy  pyramid of TV and betting companies whose only interest is the  annual contest between the Bigot Brothers to see who comes out on top  - while the SPFL administer the distribution of  some  crumbs downwards.     Doncaster has proved over the last few weeks that he only cares about the Premier season and the precious Sky contract.     Hopefully the season gets canned with no Bigot Fests for Sky to cover - followed by a huge refund demand from Sky. 

 

 

Watch the domino effect happen after that - and it might come as a real shock if one of the two supposed big beasts were to crash as a result of all of this.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

We got pilloried for having the temerity to try and get everyone to work together for the greater good right from the get go. We have tried to act in the sport’s best interests from the start, but apparently we just need to take our medicine. Utter *****.

I was trying to be nice to a Raith supporter on twitter today until he said we thought we were bigger and better than the rest of the clubs in the Championship and that we were the only coin to benefit from relegation. I lost it and slated him and his tinpot club, my account was suspended just as I was going to post this. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Deevers said:

Watch the domino effect happen after that - and it might come as a real shock if one of the two supposed big beasts were to crash as a result of all of this.

Rangers were rumoured to be precarious and throwing everything behind stopping Celtic, even before COVID. How many more soft loans can Park afford to throw at them? 🤷‍♂️

[DETTY29]

With Celtic spending nearly £4m to get Turnbull when he wasn't needed, I'd be telling them to ram any request for funding.

 

And Motherwell too because their funding gap should be filled.

 

 

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Beast Boy said:

Rangers were rumoured to be precarious and throwing everything behind stopping Celtic, even before COVID. How many more soft loans can Park afford to throw at them? 🤷‍♂️

Park will be feeling the effects of the economic realities that have been thrown up by all of this. His business will have suffered too. 

[Mikey1874]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Euro 2020 with games at Hampden and the season having to finish in May might be a problem. 

 

Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Republic of Ireland play in the summer now. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I was trying to be nice to a Raith supporter on twitter today until he said we thought we were bigger and better than the rest of the clubs in the Championship and that we were the only coin to benefit from relegation. I lost it and slated him and his tinpot club, my account was suspended just as I was going to post this. 

Said it before, and it’s true. We have a quite romantic historical friendship with Raith Rovers. I always quite liked them as a club, and for me that is saying something because I generally hate pretty much everyone in Scottish Football at the best of times. I now hope they are liquidated. Sad really, but there you go.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

With Celtic spending nearly £4m to get Turnbull when he wasn't needed, I'd be telling them to ram any request for funding.

 

And Motherwell too because their funding gap should be filled.

 

 

So Motherwell, Aberdeen and Livi should be ok having sold players, with the first instalments being paid. The others outside the uglies might struggle. Let’s hope there’s no move for McGinn and the sell  on windfall for the Samba stars from Leith. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Beast Boy said:

Said it before, and it’s true. We have a quite romantic historical friendship with Raith Rovers. I always quite liked them as a club, and for me that is saying something because I generally hate pretty much everyone in Scottish Football at the best of times. I now hope they are liquidated. Sad really, but there you go.

I was weird looking at that old stand next to the new one when we played them in the cup under Cathro, it was a good day out. Never again though, they might get a few quid for that old stand 😆. 

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Park will be feeling the effects of the economic realities that have been thrown up by all of this. His business will have suffered too. 

Suppose it will depend on whether or not they have a foreign investor as has been rumoured previously.

[Saint Jambo]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

The UK govt is in discussions with sports bodies in England I believe. If there is a sports support package put in place and it’s new money then Scotland gets an equivalent amount. The Scottish government doesn’t have to use all, or any of it,  on Sport though. 

 

It will be interesting to see what that involves. Leisure Trusts that run most local leisure centres have been campaigning for a bail out for some time. Then you have professional teams in other sports that rely on spectators, independent sports facilities, community sport clubs, and private sector sports providers (e.g. 5-a-side pitches, gyms). All of those will argue that a sports bail out should cover them and some will argue they have a better case than professional football with its high salaries and some members of the 'football family' paying multi-million pound transfer fees.

 

The Price of Football podcast was reporting that UK Government are putting pressure of the Premier League to bail out the EFL. There is a £34m parachute payment that the EPL don't have to pay to Fulham due to their promotion. The EFL have suggested that could help bail out lower league clubs and the UK Gov apparently agree. If the UK Gov sport sector bailout doesn't cover professional football it will be harder for Scottish Government to do so as it would mean giving proportionally less to another part of the sport sector that the UK Government has covered.

 

The SFA/ SPFL could start by a 50% windfall tax on all transfer fees paid by Scottish Clubs during this window. Clubs paying transfer fees in this climate can clearly afford to pay towards the greater good.

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Beast Boy said:

Suppose it will depend on whether or not they have a foreign investor as has been rumoured previously.

I think even foreign investors would be thinking twice about ploughing money into a business which looks likely to be making eye watering losses due to this pandemic. Sevco apart, if I was a supporter of either Dundee United or the vermin I would be just a bit twitchy.  I can’t see their owners ploughing in megabucks to keep them going.

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I was weird looking at that old stand next to the new one when we played them in the cup under Cathro, it was a good day out. Never again though, they might get a few quid for that old stand 😆. 

MacRaes, Tommy Walker, and remembrance. Loaning them players over the recent years. I was cheering them on v Celtic and watched them take the lead v Bayern. Liked their wee stadium and it’s position on display as you pass on the train. Turnbull Hutton and his prominent position when the SPL/SFA tried to squeeze the Rangers newco in to the First Division. What wasn’t to like really? Then they decided to **** us up the arse for the sake of an undeserved and unearned promotion. Hope they die.

[Saint Jambo]

1 minute ago, Deevers said:

I think even foreign investors would be thinking twice about ploughing money into a business which looks likely to be making eye watering losses due to this pandemic. Sevco apart, if I was a supporter of either Dundee United or the vermin I would be just a bit twitchy.  I can’t see their owners ploughing in megabucks to keep them going.

 

Have Rangers not made a few seven-figure transfer purchases this summer? Also do seem to have genuinely turned down a crazy high bid for Morelos. As much as they would be in my top 3 clubs to want to go bust, they don't seem to be exhibiting classic signs of a club with a cash flow issue.

 

Based on the BBC rumours page their is interest in Shankland. Possibly genuine and it will get Dundee Utd out of a financial hole. Equally possible they are desperately trying to generate interest to bring money in.

 

If a few clubs don't go to the wall during this season I'll be disappointed.

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Republic of Ireland play in the summer now. 

Yes that’s wonderful but the SPFL said they had to finish the season early to get ready, last season and this. Hence the reticence to postpone any games as there’s hardly any free weeks to play. I think it’s a order from UEFA that no club games are played during the tournament. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

MacRaes, Tommy Walker, and remembrance. Loaning them players over the recent years. I was cheering them on v Celtic and watched them take the lead v Bayern. Liked their wee stadium and it’s position on display as you pass on the train. Turnbull Hutton and his prominent position when the SPL/SFA tried to squeeze the Rangers newco in to the First Division. What wasn’t to like really? Then they decided to **** us up the arse for the sake of an undeserved and unearned promotion. Hope they die.

Well said. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Have Rangers not made a few seven-figure transfer purchases this summer? Also do seem to have genuinely turned down a crazy high bid for Morelos. As much as they would be in my top 3 clubs to want to go bust, they don't seem to be exhibiting classic signs of a club with a cash flow issue.

 

Based on the BBC rumours page their is interest in Shankland. Possibly genuine and it will get Dundee Utd out of a financial hole. Equally possible they are desperately trying to generate interest to bring money in.

 

If a few clubs don't go to the wall during this season I'll be disappointed.

I’m sure Gerrard said they were short on midfield players, they’ve signed two strikers already and even if they sell the incredible sulk they will have three plus Kent can play there.