SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Boof]

I notice that Davie Provan neglected to mention Stranraer - a team with a history longer than both Partick Thistle AND Heart of Midlothian. Perhaps a little less glorious, but longer nonetheless.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, graygo said:

 

We've had that.

It’s never been done properly though - with a figurehead who understands marketing and methods of widening the league’s appeal. We’re in a totally different era now, where global broadcasting offers opportunities but also offers vast amounts of competition. Our tinpot act is getting tinpot results.

[David Black]

7 minutes ago, jake said:

If it wasnt for him we wouldn't be at the heart of this mess.

Putting Levein forward to save anything about football is for me nonsense.

 

We beg to differ. Like you I was glad to see the back of him, but CL has many attributes regarding football, just not coaching. 

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Hood09 said:

There are two reasons why this has taken so long :

 

1 it’s a legal consideration and arbitration panel feel it can only be ratified in a court due to it being a test case and setting precedent. 
2 There is a challenge on the compensation amount and a fourth we independent review is required to attest the financial recourse being sought. 

 

If this is inside info...

 

No reinstatement. Championship.

 

Doncaster was sounding confident yesterday about league starting on time. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, David Black said:

We beg to differ. Like you I was glad to see the back of him, but CL has many attributes regarding football, just not coaching. 

A bit like McPhee, every time Levein failed at something the reaction was to say that his strengths lay elsewhere. Unfortunately, there was never any evidence of it. Levein is past it and not needed.

[luckydug]

16 minutes ago, jake said:

Craig Levein.

In charge ?

 

Dunno if you missed it all but we just got our asses whipped to quote the Alien movie.

 

Even if people disagree about the personalities mentioned. 

The gist of his post is spot on. 

I think it is going to take government action. 

A massive clean up needed. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

Even if people disagree about the personalities mentioned. 

The gist of his post is spot on. 

I think it is going to take government action. 

A massive clean up needed. 

The government aren’t allowed to intervene. FIFA forbids it

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, Boof said:

I notice that Davie Provan neglected to mention Stranraer - a team with a history longer than both Partick Thistle AND Heart of Midlothian. Perhaps a little less glorious, but longer nonetheless.

Yes.... noticed that as well, it's a frequent omission by the media. Maybe because Stranraer aren't part of the legal case ?   Apart from that, Provan's article is pretty good - more damning of the SPFL and SFA  than you'd get from the usual suspects.

[luckydug]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The government aren’t allowed to intervene. FIFA forbids it

Sounds like a nice little stitch up all round. 🤔 

[jake]

8 minutes ago, David Black said:

We beg to differ. Like you I was glad to see the back of him, but CL has many attributes regarding football, just not coaching. 

Sorry mate I'm still angry about his role in all of this.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Sounds like a nice little stitch up all round. 🤔 

FIFA has always taken this stance - basically to stop corrupt governments manipulating their associations.

 

Which is funny given how utterly bent and corrupt FIFA is.

[David Black]

10 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Even if people disagree about the personalities mentioned. 

The gist of his post is spot on. 

I think it is going to take government action. 

A massive clean up needed. 

My point exactly. These 3 are just examples of the type of person required. Unlike the present incumbents each has a brain, each one knows football in and out. This has nothing to do with football coaching or what damage he inflicted on Hearts. 

[john thomas]

13 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The government aren’t allowed to intervene. FIFA forbids it

Never mind FIFA , government does not have the powers

[Lone Striker]

23 minutes ago, Independence said:

It is difficult to understand how anyone could not be on our side.

Yet ...... many aren't, or at least not willing to do anything worthwhile to support our position other than shed the odd crocodile tear for us in a media interview.        We even had that fat Ayr clown last week saying that he was going to contribute to the legal fund of the C3, because they were the ones being unfairly persecuted - unbelievable beyond words.  

 

 

[wavydavy]

11 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Sounds like a nice little stitch up all round. 🤔 

 

It's not a stitch up at all. The minute any Government starts getting involved in Football it is an even bigger recipe for disaster.

 

Can you imagine the accusations the minute something doesn't go the way of one of the OF their fans would be up in arms complaining of bias.

 

The Government are doing the right thing by keeping well out of this and any other football matters other than advising on the Covid situation.

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, AdamScores said:

 

 

As others have said, if not for my love of Hearts , I would be finished with football in this country.

That sums up my feelings too.    It's hard to admit, but I'd walk away right now if it wasn't for my Hearts heritage and knowing what Hearts meant to my departed father/grandfather/uncles.    

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

FIFA has always taken this stance - basically to stop corrupt governments manipulating their associations.

 

Which is funny given how utterly bent and corrupt FIFA is.

Which makes it not funny that they should have rules to block clubs from taking action against the game's governors in a genuine court of law. Makes sense that a bent and corrupt body should make efforts to keep it's money making machine out of the courts where its corrupt nature (or at least, that of the type of people who run it) might be presented before people who genuinely know the law. 

[Deso1972]

23 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The government aren’t allowed to intervene. FIFA forbids it

Might do us all a favour if the government dissolved the SFAs membership of FIFA - no more watching crap internationals, the OF having to base their businesses on local games. It would be cataclysmic but it sure would be pressing the nuclear reset button!.. hell... im in!!..

[Pasquale for King]

33 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The government aren’t allowed to intervene. FIFA forbids it

What are they going to do? Ban Scotland’s laughable National team from their major tournaments 😃😜. 
Interesting that they banned Sierra Leone from International football but not the US for charging Blatter and Warner.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45766356

[Rogue Daddy]

41 minutes ago, David Black said:

We beg to differ. Like you I was glad to see the back of him, but CL has many attributes regarding football, just not coaching. 

Got it agree with you on this one. CL is definitely not a ‘yes’ man. I think he would do a decent job. 
The ‘board’ would certainly be better off with (intelligent) ex-pros/managers than self serving chairmen.... Willie Milller & Fitzpatrick types need not apply. 

[Spellczech]

59 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Yeah, I dropped my support for our action after hearing the Chairman of a club who turned it around with less games to go, last season, insist we couldn't have done the same. 

I mean, how can you argue with such compelling logic?

The sad truth is that this IS the level of logic, cognitive dissonance and self-serving, insular me me me attitude that has ****ed the game here and, tbh, the entire country at times. Could be a great league, should  be a great country - but not until we rid ourselves of those with that mentality. 

Glasgow has always been a parochial place - they likely think Covid was discovered there...

 

I grew up there but even I was surprised when a German friend who'd been at a wedding there laughingly told me that the father of the bride in his speech started blubbing about how proud he was that his daughter had been born in Glasgow, schooled in Glasgow, University in Glasgow and now was marrying a Glasgow man! LOL

[Rogue Daddy]

2 hours ago, AdamScores said:

While Davie Provan's article has much to commend it, there is still a fundamental flaw at the heart of it. He blames the original vote result on the greed of the clubs who were only interested in getting their prize money. This ignores the actual root cause which was the confluence of two huge self interests, namely:

 

- Doncaster's need to start the new season to get the Money from the new Sky deal

- Celtic's need to get the league declared to preserve 9* IAR.

 

While some clubs voted this through out of self interest, I believe some did so because they genuinely believed (wrongly) that this was the only way that prize money could be released to  struggling clubs. 

 

He makes a number of good points but, given  his association with Celtic, I wouldn't expect DP to highlight Celtic's part in this. It's not unreasonable, however, to expect proper journalists to do so. Has any of them asked why Doncaster called "Peter" when he found out about the Dundee "no" vote? There are many other lines of investigation which have not been pursued, which I won't bother re-hashing but, the point is that until the cosy relationship between the football authorities, the ugly sisters and the compliant media is broken, football in this country will never progress.

 

As others have said, if not for my love of Hearts , I would be finished with football in this country.

Don’t forget the rousing speech he (PL) gave prior to the vote for an independent inquiry into the SPFL. Wonder why he Didn’t want that? 🧐

[TheBigO]

41 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s never been done properly though - with a figurehead who understands marketing and methods of widening the league’s appeal. We’re in a totally different era now, where global broadcasting offers opportunities but also offers vast amounts of competition. Our tinpot act is getting tinpot results.

Also "we've tried that" is such a shit excuse for not doing something. Do it better.

 

Used to get it all the time in my old job trying to implement new ideas (better food on the Borders). "We tried that" or "folk like it this way" ... Drives me daft that attitude. The mottos of the protectionist as the rest of world drives into the distance and out of sight.

 

What we have is broken. It has never worked. Look at every aspect of our game. Find one which stands up to scrutiny against any nation in the top maybe 10-15 leagues.

 

There only so many governance structures. The right people with sufficient power is the simple formula. Finding the right people is one thing, wrestling power from the dinosaurs is another. The only way I see it is the meteor of a breakaway. They ain't gona vote to lose their power.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

It will be yesterday's chip wrappers very quickly,  with Celtic Rangers 10iar pish taking over. 

 

This country is incapable of changing 

Of that there can be little doubt, with poor old Dundee Utd's 'unfair' treatment at the hands of the evil Hearts and Partick soon forgotten, but, nonetheless, the spin will be interesting, especially from the hacks who will try to make it look all so wrong while attempting to sound intelligent and respectful to the laws of the land. Then there will be those who make out they were calling it right all along...

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

Also "we've tried that" is such a shit excuse for not doing something. Do it better.

 

Used to get it all the time in my old job trying to implement new ideas (better food on the Borders). "We tried that" or "folk like it this way" ... Drives me daft that attitude. The mottos of the protectionist as the rest of world drives into the distance and out of sight.

 

What we have is broken. It has never worked. Look at every aspect of our game. Find one which stands up to scrutiny against any nation in the top maybe 10-15 leagues.

 

There only so many governance structures. The right people with sufficient power is the simple formula. Finding the right people is one thing, wrestling power from the dinosaurs is another. The only way I see it is the meteor of a breakaway. They ain't gona vote to lose their power.

Don't be daft. All that is needed is another report. Then don't action anything from it. It's the Hampden way...

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Don’t forget the rousing speech he (PL) gave prior to the vote for an independent inquiry into the SPFL. Wonder why he Didn’t want that? 🧐

That's remarkable isn't it? The only times he's "publicly" popped his head up and got involved was to passionately push against enquiry.

 

No speeches given for reconstruction or even for the original resolution. No opinion given on anything really, but when an enquiry was on the cards, he rounded the wagons.

 

Shows him and them up imo. Nothing said though.

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Don't be daft. All that is needed is another report. Then don't action anything from it. It's the Hampden way...

We'll indeed. How many have there been? A bit like Doncaster's only tactic in this debacle, they're just distractions and delays to get through another year at a time.

 

Procrastination is their biggest weapon. And it keeps working!!!!!

 

The McLeish report had flaws but there was loads of sense and we implemented zero from it.

[luckydug]

35 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

It's not a stitch up at all. The minute any Government starts getting involved in Football it is an even bigger recipe for disaster.

 

Can you imagine the accusations the minute something doesn't go the way of one of the OF their fans would be up in arms complaining of bias.

 

The Government are doing the right thing by keeping well out of this and any other football matters other than advising on the Covid situation.

What if it is proved there has been criminality within a National association or league set up. 

To be clear I'm not suggesting it has gone that far in Scotland. 

I'm just curious as to what level of skulduggery is allowed. 

Football Associations can't be above the law surely. 🤔

[Tommy Brown]

Memory is a bit shot.

We had SPL until Rangers died.

Then we amalgamated the two as a new club miraculously got accepted into Division 2, nearly got the championship. This club like to be known as Rangers, but I prefer to call them, the team masquerading as Rangers.

 

So now we are being haunted by this amalgamation, in that amateur clubs can do their best to kill top division clubs.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Tommy Brown

[Big Slim Stylee]

15 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

We'll indeed. How many have there been? A bit like Doncaster's only tactic in this debacle, they're just distractions and delays to get through another year at a time.

 

Procrastination is their biggest weapon. And it keeps working!!!!!

 

The McLeish report had flaws but there was loads of sense and we implemented zero from it.

There are literally hundreds of terrific Sports Administrators in his country who just get on with their jobs with no fuss and no drama. It so annoys me that this utter imposter seems completely  bullet proof.
 

If the arbitration panel is critical of his performance in any way - which I believe they will be - he should step down. We all know he won’t though. 🙁

[Jam Tartlet]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

A game between Brechin and Annan this season got a crowd of 258. That’s 258. No matter how anyone tries to spin this, that is amateur football and should be categorised as such. And much as the SFA has a duty to spread money through the pyramid, the SPFL should not be trying to accommodate Old Firm derbies that pull in 60k and games that pull in 258. They need to break up the organisational structure and accept that the SPFL as it stands is bloated and not fit for purposes. I’d honestly support a scenario where the Premier League is governed separately to the rest of the SPFL because the product at the top is where the game can improve drastically 

You realise the Scottish Football League existed in its own right for a number of years (after the top teams broke away). It was Doncaster and the SPFL that essentially put them out of business with a takeover (sorry, “merger”) at the time Rangers went bust and the new club ended up in Division 2. The set up as we have it now under the 42 club SPFL was driven by Doncaster and the bigger clubs (including us I’m sure) as the TV deal was screwed without Sevco (whose games would have been shown under the SFL for at least 3 seasons - 4 as it wonderfully turned out!). With that set up came the voting structure we know have. 

[John Findlay]

9 minutes ago, luckydug said:

What if it is proved there has been criminality within a National association or league set up. 

To be clear I'm not suggesting it has gone that far in Scotland. 

I'm just curious as to what level of skulduggery is allowed. 

Football Associations can't be above the law surely. 🤔

They're are not. If criminality has occurred, and Police Scotland brought charges, then FIFA, would not get involved. The ex Owner of Marseille and numerous occurrences in Italy and elsewhere are proof of that.

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

If this is inside info...

 

No reinstatement. Championship.

 

Doncaster was sounding confident yesterday about league starting on time. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Tommy Brown

[Jam Tartlet]

1 minute ago, Tommy Brown said:

Quite frankly Mikey, your information is pointless and means as much as Keef's or Willie Miller's opinion.

Your post has a 50% of chance of being correct. Are looking kudos if correct? You certainly won't apologize if wrong.

 

You don't say if your inside information is from Hearts, SPFL, SFA, Arbitration (no chance)

Do yourself and and the rest of a favour and don't speculate in the pretence of being in the know.

 

Exactly this. No one knows. Let’s wait and see what happens rather than reading into things. Nothing worse than people pretending to be ITK spreading info (their interpretation anyway) on here as fact. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

41 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Glasgow has always been a parochial place - they likely think Covid was discovered there...

 

I grew up there but even I was surprised when a German friend who'd been at a wedding there laughingly told me that the father of the bride in his speech started blubbing about how proud he was that his daughter had been born in Glasgow, schooled in Glasgow, University in Glasgow and now was marrying a Glasgow man! LOL

Erra peeeeple!

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Quite frankly Mikey, your information is pointless and means as much as Keef's or Willie Miller's opinion.

Your post has a 50% of chance of being correct. Are looking kudos if correct? You certainly won't apologize if wrong.

 

You don't say if your inside information is from Hearts, SPFL, SFA, Arbitration (no chance)

Do yourself and and the rest of a favour and don't speculate in the pretence of being in the know.

 

 

I quoted a post. 

[niblick1874]

 

5 hours ago, Heartbeat said:

 Only question is how does he know that  arbitration are " odds on to side with the league" as he has put it.

 

He doesn't know and I am going to guess he doesn't know as much as us about this. He and most others that were not done over by this seem to think that the be all and end all is the Dundee vote which they think the SPFL will be able to dance their way around. They don't seem to get that not being allowed to do harm to any club blows everything else out the water.   

[Tommy Brown]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I quoted a post. 

I'm sorry Mikey, I realised that after posting.

 

Post deleted, unfortunately someone has commented on it.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Tommy Brown

[manaliveits105]

 

5 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Erra peeeeple!

Theyre friendly so they are - its a friendly city so it is - I love it when your abroad and the weegie comes out with the aye am frae glesca expecting everyone else to go WOW really and you can see in their faces they think shit a loudmouth erse - time to go

[wavydavy]

26 minutes ago, luckydug said:

What if it is proved there has been criminality within a National association or league set up. 

To be clear I'm not suggesting it has gone that far in Scotland. 

I'm just curious as to what level of skulduggery is allowed. 

Football Associations can't be above the law surely. 🤔

 

That would be for the courts to decide.

Edited July 26, 2020 by wavydavy

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

Just now, niblick1874 said:

 

 

He doesn't know and I am going to guess he doesn't know as much as us about this. He and most others that were not done over by this seem to think that the be all and end all is the Dundee vote which they think the SPFL will be able to dance their way around. They don't seem to get that not being allowed to do harm to any club blows everything else out the water.   

My impression of what Provan meant here was not that, in his opinion, we'd lost, but rather he was a bit exasperated that that's just the way it goes in Scottish football. I don't think he was suggesting that he knew any more than we do.

 

Seems strange to be sticking up for a semi-hack like Provan, but credit where it's due, however much of that article was down to him and his own thoughts, it was written in a way that suggests he's not following the SPFL agenda.

[Jamstomorrow]

50 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Glasgow has always been a parochial place - they likely think Covid was discovered there...

 

I grew up there but even I was surprised when a German friend who'd been at a wedding there laughingly told me that the father of the bride in his speech started blubbing about how proud he was that his daughter had been born in Glasgow, schooled in Glasgow, University in Glasgow and now was marrying a Glasgow man! LOL

Sounds a bit like Hawick.   A day oot o' Hyick is a day wasted e ken!  Hawick is so parochial, it's the only town in the world twinned with itself!

[RobNox]

2 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

The SPFL don't understand embarrassment so absolutely no chance they will feel it.

 

And remember Davy, they were only doing the clubs' bidding, that's Donkey's mantra

[Papa]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

 

Theyre friendly so they are - its a friendly city so it is - I love it when your abroad and the weegie comes out with the aye am frae glesca expecting everyone else to go WOW really and you can see in their faces they think shit a loudmouth erse - time to go

I listen to Talksport and Brazil and to a lesser extent McCoist rabbit on incessantly about Glasgow. It’s nauseating. You don’t hear any other presenter mention their birthplace whatsoever but never an hour goes past but that weegie pair are at it. I concluded that they must be brainwashed at school to big up the city. I have met other weegie folk and most are the same. 

[Tasavallan]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Glasgow has always been a parochial place - they likely think Covid was discovered there...

 

I grew up there but even I was surprised when a German friend who'd been at a wedding there laughingly told me that the father of the bride in his speech started blubbing about how proud he was that his daughter had been born in Glasgow, schooled in Glasgow, University in Glasgow and now was marrying a Glasgow man! LOL

 

Yes maybe but what we need to know is which foot he kicks with?

[niblick1874]

5 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

The media are a laughing stock, end off.

 

The fact that the majority think they can go to those that have soled their sole and come across the truth is scary. I get where you are coming from but let's call it what it is. it's not a laughing stock, It's evil. The bloody knife through the Hearts badge puts every person that goes out wearing anything to do with Hearts under threat from the morons that believe the MSM. What group eighty five years ago might have had a picture like that in the national press showing a bloody knife going through a badge of sorts that they had to wear? People need to wake up to where we really are. The people that put that picture in that propaganda rag should be in jail. The fact they are not should tell all to everyone. Alas

[OmiyaHearts]

Some amount of Glasgow envy going off topic on the thread. Its a great city. Get over it and get back on topic. 

[jimmy the jambo]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

That sums up my feelings too.    It's hard to admit, but I'd walk away right now if it wasn't for my Hearts heritage and knowing what Hearts meant to my departed father/grandfather/uncles.    

Exactly how I feel too. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The government aren’t allowed to intervene. FIFA forbids it

 

I don't think, if any government wanted to get involved, they would give a flying **** what a corrupt organisation like Fifa forbids or doesn't forbid. 

[niblick1874]

29 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

My impression of what Provan meant here was not that, in his opinion, we'd lost, but rather he was a bit exasperated that that's just the way it goes in Scottish football. I don't think he was suggesting that he knew any more than we do.

 

Seems strange to be sticking up for a semi-hack like Provan, but credit where it's due, however much of that article was down to him and his own thoughts, it was written in a way that suggests he's not following the SPFL agenda.

 

I didn't say he suggested he knows more than we do. He didn't. I agree with him on nearly all things he is saying other than what he thinks the outcome will be. I gave my reasons for why I think that is.