SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[baxterd1974]

12 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Some amount of Glasgow envy going off topic on the thread. Its a great city. Get over it and get back on topic. 

It's a decent enough city I agree but you will struggle to find anyone from Edinburgh looking enviously at Glasgow. 

[luckydug]

14 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

The fact that the majority think they can go to those that have soled their sole and come across the truth is scary. I get where you are coming from but let's call it what it is. it's not a laughing stock, It's evil. The bloody knife through the Hearts badge puts every person that goes out wearing anything to do with Hearts under threat from the morons that believe the MSM. What group eighty five years ago might have had a picture like that in the national press showing a bloody knife going through a badge of sorts that they had to wear? People need to wake up to where we really are. The people that put that picture in that propaganda rag should be in jail. The fact they are not should tell all to everyone. Alas

You're talking cobblers and fish 😂

[pablo]

15 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Some amount of Glasgow envy going off topic on the thread. Its a great city. Get over it and get back on topic. 

 

No-one from Edinburgh is envious of Glasgow, trust me on that.

[Leveins Battalion]

 

Scottish Football cannot even organise a BCD friendly between 2 clubs without breaking the rules.

 

It is nothing but an amateur,unproffesional and corrupt members comittee.

 

For me now,i couldn't care less if i go to watch Hearts away at Dunfermline this season(which i would look forward to) or travel to Perth to have 16 St Johnstone fans sing ''Hearts are peados'' all game or travel through to Hamilton

to sit in The Spice of Life Stand and have a sing off between 3000 Jambos and 22 Hamilton fans (utter embarassment of as club)

[Victorian]

I think there are a number of factors,  when combined together,  could possibly lead this arbitration panel to come to the conclusion that they are not competent to impose a final ruling,  not least in order to avoid making a fundamental error in law.    It's complicated and time sensitive.    Potentially there are 'innocent' entities liable to suffer consequences.    But the law has to be applied.

[niblick1874]

9 minutes ago, luckydug said:

You're talking cobblers and fish 😂

 

How so?

[luckydug]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think there are a number of factors,  when combined together,  could possibly lead this arbitration panel to come to the conclusion that they are not competent to impose a final ruling,  not least in order to avoid making a fundamental error in law.    It's complicated and time sensitive.    Potentially there are 'innocent' entities liable to suffer consequences.    But the law has to be applied.

They have not spent all this time to dismiss our case. 

I agree there is more to this yet. 🤔

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

8 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

I didn't say he suggested he knows more than we do. He didn't. I agree with him on nearly all things he is saying other than what he thinks the outcome will be. I gave my reasons for why I think that is.  

Wasn't criticising your post, just adding my thoughts, with particular reference to his 'odds on to side with the league' comment and how I interpreted it not to mean he had some information he believes to be true that suggested we'd lost, just that he views anything the SFA/SPFL organize to be somewhat shady.

[luckydug]

1 minute ago, niblick1874 said:

 

How so?

Sorry my comments were out of plaice 😏

[Jumper]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think there are a number of factors,  when combined together,  could possibly lead this arbitration panel to come to the conclusion that they are not competent to impose a final ruling,  not least in order to avoid making a fundamental error in law.    It's complicated and time sensitive.    Potentially there are 'innocent' entities liable to suffer consequences.    But the law has to be applied.

Maybe I am totally missing the point you are making. What do you mean by "the law has to be applied"? This panel is not dealing with a lawful matter, or is it? Am I being stupid?

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

No-one from Edinburgh is envious of Glasgow, trust me on that.

 

Abso-****ing-lutely! 

[colinmaroon]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think there are a number of factors,  when combined together,  could possibly lead this arbitration panel to come to the conclusion that they are not competent to impose a final ruling,  not least in order to avoid making a fundamental error in law.    It's complicated and time sensitive.    Potentially there are 'innocent' entities liable to suffer consequences.    But the law has to be applied.

 

Much along the lines of my thinking.

 

If they came to that conclusion obviously it's back to the High Court.  I would really love that because then it all has to come out in the open.

[Victorian]

Just now, luckydug said:

They have not spent all this time to dismiss our case. 

I agree there is more to this yet. 🤔

 

It's intriguing,  if nothing else.

 

There seems to be too much to it for it to be dismissed completely.    But it's so complicated and with certain implications that I'm leaning increasingly to the big reveal... not being a big reveal.    That it needs to be referred back into the main legal system.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Jumper said:

Maybe I am totally missing the point you are making. What do you mean by "the law has to be applied"? This panel is not dealing with a lawful matter, or is it? Am I being stupid?

 

Eh?   Of course it is.    Arbitration is a legal process that must follow the law.

[Bazzas right boot]

30 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Some amount of Glasgow envy going off topic on the thread. Its a great city. Get over it and get back on topic. 

 

 

Glasgow is OK, but I don't think anyone from Edinburgh or even  the East side has any envy over it. 

[gator]

32 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

The fact that the majority think they can go to those that have soled their sole and come across the truth is scary. I get where you are coming from but let's call it what it is. it's not a laughing stock, It's evil. The bloody knife through the Hearts badge puts every person that goes out wearing anything to do with Hearts under threat from the morons that believe the MSM. What group eighty five years ago might have had a picture like that in the national press showing a bloody knife going through a badge of sorts that they had to wear? People need to wake up to where we really are. The people that put that picture in that propaganda rag should be in jail. The fact they are not should tell all to everyone. Alas

Exactly, the evilness is coming at us from the vast majority!

[Jambo61]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

It's intriguing,  if nothing else.

 

There seems to be too much to it for it to be dismissed completely.    But it's so complicated and with certain implications that I'm leaning increasingly to the big reveal... not being a big reveal.    That it needs to be referred back into the main legal system.

Would that in itself prove the SFA charge incompetent?

[niblick1874]

5 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Wasn't criticising your post, just adding my thoughts, with particular reference to his 'odds on to side with the league' comment and how I interpreted it not to mean he had some information he believes to be true that suggested we'd lost, just that he views anything the SFA/SPFL organize to be somewhat shady.

 

👍

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Wasn't criticising your post, just adding my thoughts, with particular reference to his 'odds on to side with the league' comment and how I interpreted it not to mean he had some information he believes to be true that suggested we'd lost, just that he views anything the SFA/SPFL organize to be somewhat shady.

 

 

Understatement of the year. The moment they said all this would be behind closed doors was the moment I didn't really expect or even especially care about the result. I mean, worst case is we're in the Championship with a bit of compensation (whatever's left after the SFA fine) watching a winning team for a year, which would be a nice change after last season.

 

Now, we'll never know what was said between Helms and Doncaster or why the SPFL went all in on finishing the league early so quickly. Whatever the decision is I'd like to see another push for a full public inquiry into the SPFL's governance. Or if the decision goes against us I'd like us to take it to the Court of Arbitration for Sport if we can, which might be a more public venue. Nothing will chat in Scottish football until the SPFL and SFA are forced to operate with some transparency,

[Victorian]

Just now, Jambo61 said:

Would that in itself prove the SFA charge incompetent?

 

I think the SFA charge relates to a failure to follow process,  rather than our right to legal recourse.    We didn't ask first.

[Jumper]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Eh?   Of course it is.    Arbitration is a legal process that must follow the law.

I see what you meant now. I thought you were talking about something illegal was being dealt with. Thanks for my schooling.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Much along the lines of my thinking.

 

If they came to that conclusion obviously it's back to the High Court.  I would really love that because then it all has to come out in the open.

 

Not sure it all would.   Perhaps arbitration can hear the details and provisionally rule on it,   but also refer it back to the courts by way of a sort of judicial review,   which might be in a closed court.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

27 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I don't think, if any government wanted to get involved, they would give a flying **** what a corrupt organisation like Fifa forbids or doesn't forbid. 

Unfortunately it’s not that simple. The consequences of FIFA sanctions are major and can isolate a country from the wider game. 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Understatement of the year. The moment they said all this would be behind closed doors was the moment I didn't really expect or even especially care about the result. I mean, worst case is we're in the Championship with a bit of compensation (whatever's left after the SFA fine) watching a winning team for a year, which would be a nice change after last season.

 

Now, we'll never know what was said between Helms and Doncaster or why the SPFL went all in on finishing the league early so quickly. Whatever the decision is I'd like to see another push for a full public inquiry into the SPFL's governance. Or if the decision goes against us I'd like us to take it to the Court of Arbitration for Sport if we can, which might be a more public venue. Nothing will chat in Scottish football until the SPFL and SFA are forced to operate with some transparency,

It was Lord Clark who sent it for arbitration, where it has to be heard behind closed doors, and I didn't get the impression he was looking for somewhere shady for it to be heard, just that, in his legal opinion, he had no choice. This is just one example of what worries me most about our case, that it's the nuances of the law that get ya, and not the strength of your case, or even that of the opposition. 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I think the SFA charge relates to a failure to follow process,  rather than our right to legal recourse.    We didn't ask first.

 

Yeah, it's In the membership rules. 

[Gizmo]

36 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Some amount of Glasgow envy going off topic on the thread. Its a great city. Get over it and get back on topic. 

It's not the city, its the Glasgow-centric west coast insular bs that annoys people. It permeates the SFA, many of our clubs and local politics - all to their detriment. Throw in the "what school did ye go tae" merchants and it's a millstone that wrecks progress in this country. It is on topic, as this crap is the biggest reason why our game is an absolute mess and why we had to go to Court to seek justice because you will never find fair and equitable treatment from a partisan body set-up to do the bidding of the two Glasgow bigots. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It does feel like we’re going to come off badly here. But it’s hardly unexpected 

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It does feel like we’re going to come off badly here. But it’s hardly unexpected 

 

What do you mean by come off badly and what makes you think that?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, pablo said:

 

What do you mean by come off badly and what makes you think that?

I suspect we’ll lose. I’ve no info on it but that’s my gut feeling 

[Victorian]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It does feel like we’re going to come off badly here. But it’s hardly unexpected 

 

Not really.   It doesn't feel like anything tbh.    But a bad outcome would not be unexpected nonetheless.    It would only be unexpected if one had become overly confident in our success.

 

It's completely 50/50 with a number of different successful outcomes.

[Ski Nae]

1 hour ago, Jamstomorrow said:

Sounds a bit like Hawick.   A day oot o' Hyick is a day wasted e ken!  Hawick is so parochial, it's the only town in the world twinned with itself!

My family have Gala roots. Big rugby rivalry. 

Hawick: green

Gala: maroon 

 

End of. 

[pablo]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I suspect we’ll lose. I’ve no info on it but that’s my gut feeling 

 

I've no idea which way it'll go. Let's just hope we hear soon and can move forward with our preparations for next season. 

[Jambo61]

16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I think the SFA charge relates to a failure to follow process,  rather than our right to legal recourse.    We didn't ask first.

Get that, but if the process proves incompetent we can argue we always thought so via legal opinion!

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It does feel like we’re going to come off badly here. But it’s hardly unexpected 

 

We won't be any worse than we are now  should we lose. 

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

We won't be any worse than we are now  should we lose. 

 

Just about 500 grand in legal fees

[Seymour M Hersh]

13 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Unfortunately it’s not that simple. The consequences of FIFA sanctions are major and can isolate a country from the wider game. 

 

It is that simple. The government of a country can if it wants interfere and Fifa and their sanctions (blockading ports?) can do one.  Not that I'm suggesting for one second the it would be good for Holyrood or Westminster (should it be Englandshire) to ever involve themselves, it wouldn't but the bottom line is they could and Fifa could and probably would do nothing.

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Just about 500 grand in legal fees

 Been covered for us,

[Victorian]

If the main consideration now is how to best,  or least worst,  uphold our substantive complaint,  while ensuring the least damaging consequences for all stakeholders,   then essentially we've won the argument.     We might end up being largely disadvantaged due to technicalities but there would still need to be an 'award' to us.    I do wonder if there is still work to be done on how a financial award will be dealt with.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Deevers said:

 Been covered for us,

Who told you that?

[Deevers]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

We won't be any worse than we are now  should we lose. 

 

We are going to be/are the most hated club in the country no matter what happens with this.   Bring it on!

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Just about 500 grand in legal fees

 

Be surprised if it wasn't underwritten by our benefactors or even Ann. 

We wouldn't have gone with it if we couldn't afford it, Patrick's tab has even been picked up. 

 

The club will be exactly as is IMO should the worse happen, the football side 100% exactly as is. 

 

If we win, even in part we'll be better off. 

 

I think worse case for us is that we'll be compensated for the reduced championship season, which means we won't lose outright anyway. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Who told you that?

 Been mentioned on here several times.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Deevers

[niblick1874]

13 minutes ago, gator said:

Exactly, the evilness is coming at us from the vast majority!

 

Yep. Inciting the stupid MSM believers with a bloody knife through the Hearts badge should have them in jail. I despise those that can't see the big picture with this. As for what it says about Hearts supporters that think this is not a problem, well, I won't go into that on here.

 

[Newton51]

We had to pay half of the spfl legal fees from the original court hearing

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Deevers said:

 Been mentioned on here several times.

We'll see in the next accounts but according to what I've been told the club itself paying any costs

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Get that, but if the process proves incompetent we can argue we always thought so via legal opinion!

 

Lord Clark alluded to his dissatisfaction with an administrative process being applied to the legal right to access to the legal system.    I tend to think the SFA's clause is legally sound,   but it has been warned off in advance of draconian sanctions.

[RobNox]

28 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Glasgow is OK, but I don't think anyone from Edinburgh or even  the East side has any envy over it. 

 

Good place for a visit, but I wouldn't want to live there

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, RobNox said:

 

Good place for a visit, but I wouldn't want to live there

 

Be far better if it wasn't for the need to be either or. 

 

The OF culture is a cancer on the city and in Scotland in general. 

[Leveins Battalion]

18 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It does feel like we’re going to come off badly here. But it’s hardly unexpected 

How is that?

 

There hasn't been a peep from anybody involved.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Be surprised if it wasn't underwritten by our benefactors or even Ann. 

We wouldn't have gone with it if we couldn't afford it, Patrick's tab has even been picked up. 

 

The club will be exactly as is IMO should the worse happen, the football side 100% exactly as is. 

 

If we win, even in part we'll be better off. 

 

I think worse case for us is that we'll be compensated for the reduced championship season, which means we won't lose outright anyway. 

 

 

As said previously to another poster the costs will come from the club what i was told