SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Boof]

30 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I think the SFA charge relates to a failure to follow process,  rather than our right to legal recourse.    We didn't ask first.

 

Could we have just asked and gone ahead and done it anyway...or do their precious rules or articles of association or whatever the **** they're trying to use to hammer us state that permission must be granted?

[gator]

7 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

Yep. Inciting the stupid MSM believers with a bloody knife through the Hearts badge should have them in jail. I despise those that can't see the big picture with this. As for what it says about Hearts supporters that think this is not a problem, well, I won't go into that on here.

 

There have been so many twists and turns in this whole nauseating process, I hope the knife through the badge is never forgotten, that was a shocking disgraceful act that as you say should have been well punished, it is inciting hatred!

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The government aren’t allowed to intervene. FIFA forbids it

Unless there are brown envelopes involved.

[Lone Striker]

28 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Would that in itself prove the SFA charge incompetent?

That's a very good question !!  It would difficult to justify slapping  a big penalty on us if their own arbitration process deemed the case to be valid but too complex for them,  and threw it back to Lord Clark.   Actually ..... that would be a tremendous development, regardless of how the CoS eventually judged it.     We would enjoy listening to the Sportsound eejits try to explain that one - Willie Miller's brain would combust live on air.  ☺️  

[niblick1874]

25 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

It was Lord Clark who sent it for arbitration, where it has to be heard behind closed doors, and I didn't get the impression he was looking for somewhere shady for it to be heard, just that, in his legal opinion, he had no choice. This is just one example of what worries me most about our case, that it's the nuances of the law that get ya, and not the strength of your case, or even that of the opposition. 

 

Are you sure it had to be behind closed doors? Was it not a case that if both said they wanted it open to all it would have been open to all. I guess you are right as you seem so adamant. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

As said previously to another poster the costs will come from the club what i was told 

 

Tbe benefactors put in iir £2m last season, JA stuck £3m in the pot for Scottish football, particks tab has been mysteriously picked up. 

 

I see no result negatively impacting us more than we already are, all to gain, nothing to lose. 

The accounts will show either way tho, time will tell. 

[John Findlay]

17 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Just about 500 grand in legal fees

Which are covered by our benefactors.

[Jammy T]

4 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Fecking brutal. We and Patrick are victims of a criminal cartel.

This misses out Werder Bremen also

 

36 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Not sure it all would.   Perhaps arbitration can hear the details and provisionally rule on it,   but also refer it back to the courts by way of a sort of judicial review,   which might be in a closed court.

An arbitration tribunal needs to reach a

decision - it can’t say “too hard” and pass it back.

 

Conceivably there is a decided legal issue that it needs the court to enforce.

 

17 minutes ago, Victorian said:

If the main consideration now is how to best,  or least worst,  uphold our substantive complaint,  while ensuring the least damaging consequences for all stakeholders,   then essentially we've won the argument.     We might end up being largely disadvantaged due to technicalities but there would still need to be an 'award' to us.    I do wonder if there is still work to be done on how a financial award will be dealt with.

 

I still cant conceive of any scenario where we “win” but not enough to be reinstated, just enough for compo.

 

If we win we are reinstated unless that is impossible. At the moment I can’t see why that wouldn’t be the case.

 

I can’t see how we can “half win” the case -  it seems binary to me.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Jammy T

[niblick1874]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

There have been so many twists and turns in this whole nauseating process, I hope the knife through the badge is never forgotten, that was a shocking disgraceful act that as you say should have been well punished, it is inciting hatred!

 

It was also inciting murder. That's Hatred and murder.  

[Lfhearts]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Which are covered by our benefactors.

No win no fee am told, so one of us is correct.......

 

 

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Could we have just asked and gone ahead and done it anyway...or do their precious rules or articles of association or whatever the **** they're trying to use to hammer us state that permission must be granted?

 

I assume the rule would require formal permission being granted.   It is of course an erroneous hurdle placed upon a legal right,  but the chances are that it isn't illegal.

[colinmaroon]

54 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Sorry my comments were out of plaice 😏

 

 

Bearing your sole, eh?

 

 

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Glasgow has always been a parochial place - they likely think Covid was discovered there...

 

I grew up there but even I was surprised when a German friend who'd been at a wedding there laughingly told me that the father of the bride in his speech started blubbing about how proud he was that his daughter had been born in Glasgow, schooled in Glasgow, University in Glasgow and now was marrying a Glasgow man! LOL

Pretty appalling stuff.    I wonder if your German friend failed to pick up on a possible subtext in the father's speech - something related to the groom being a Glasgow "lodge" man perhaps ? 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Lone Striker

[johnthomas]

14 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Unless there are brown envelopes involved.

Would like to know how , legally , the government could interfere

[Victorian]

8 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

This misses out Werder Bremen also

 

An arbitration tribunal needs to reach a

decision - it can’t say “too hard” and pass it back.

 

Conceivably there is a decided legal issue that it needs the court to enforce.

 

 

I still cant conceive of any scenario where we “win” but not enough to be reinstated, just enough for compo.

 

If we win we are reinstated unless that is impossible. At the moment I can’t see why that wouldn’t be the case.

 

I can’t see how we can “half win” the case -  it seems binary to me.

 

 

 

If you look at it from the angle of an arbitration tribunal being corrected by the courts in the event of abitration making a legal error.    Perhaps there is a combination of conflicting factors that could cause arbitration to seek a ratification of certain judgements,  or guidance on how to impose certain rulings.

 

If the courts become involved if arbitration gets the law wrong... surely it follows that arbitration will not willfully exceed it's own confidence in it's own competence.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

Would like to know how , legally , the government could interfere

If a government wanted to interfere I doubt FIFA could stop them.

[luckydug]

2 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

Would like to know how , legally , the government could interfere

Wish I hadn't mentioned it now. 😞

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Some amount of Glasgow envy going off topic on the thread. Its a great city. Get over it and get back on topic. 

The city until the buses were de-regulated and first bus took over, you knew where the Lord Provost leaned, as the buses were either Green, White, and Gold, or Orange. Glasgow the city as in bricks or mortars is not the problem, its Glaswegians themselves. Like scousers all the males are born comedians. Dont care what anyone in Glasgow says. They are thoroughly pissed off that Edinburgh is the capital city and Glasgow is not.

Envious of Glasgow, not as long as my arse points downwards.

[bobskeldon]

12 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

This misses out Werder Bremen also

 

An arbitration tribunal needs to reach a

decision - it can’t say “too hard” and pass it back.

 

Conceivably there is a decided legal issue that it needs the court to enforce.

 

 

I still cant conceive of any scenario where we “win” but not enough to be reinstated, just enough for compo.

 

If we win we are reinstated unless that is impossible. At the moment I can’t see why that wouldn’t be the case.

 

I can’t see how we can “half win” the case -  it seems binary to me.

 

 

I think you are right JT, if compensation is part of any ‘decision’ it means that something ‘unlawful’ has taken place. If something ‘unlawful’ has taken place, the only thing that can happen (IMO) is that whatever has happened ‘unlawfully’ is corrected! 

[colinmaroon]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

The city until the buses were de-regulated and first bus took over, you knew where the Lord Provost leaned, as the buses were either Green, White, and Gold, or Orange. Glasgow the city as in bricks or mortars is not the problem, its Glaswegians themselves. Like scousers all the males are born comedians. Dont care what anyone in Glasgow says. They are thoroughly pissed off that Edinburgh is the capital city and Glasgow is not.

Envious of Glasgow, not as long as my arse points downwards.

 

 

You mean like the maroon and green buses in Edinburgh.

 

PS Love the Maroon ones.  Can't think why?

[Jambof3tornado]

20 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

Are you sure it had to be behind closed doors? Was it not a case that if both said they wanted it open to all it would have been open to all. I guess you are right as you seem so adamant. 

You are correct that it could be held open if both sides agreed......

 

 

So closed doors was always going to be the option.

[Harry Potter]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

Sorry my comments were out of plaice 😏

🙂.

[luckydug]

1 minute ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

You mean like the maroon and green buses in Edinburgh.

 

PS Love the Maroon ones.  Can't think why?

Traditionally the main bus company in Edinburgh had maroon buses. 

The lesser used buses (Scottish omnibuses and latterly East Coast etc) 

were green. 

Maroon = big bus team

Green     = wee bus team

😁

[Deevers]

4 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

You are correct that it could be held open if both sides agreed......

 

 

So closed doors was always going to be the option.

  Much to hide methinks. Hopefully these professional gentlemen who make up the panel have had the integrity to deal with all that comes out in the course of this scrupulously. 

[Harry Potter]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

Traditionally the main bus company in Edinburgh had maroon buses. 

The lesser used buses (Scottish omnibuses and latterly East Coast etc) 

were green. 

Maroon = big bus team

Green     = wee bus team

😁

Correct,

[DETTY29]

22 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

This misses out Werder Bremen also

 

An arbitration tribunal needs to reach a

decision - it can’t say “too hard” and pass it back.

 

Conceivably there is a decided legal issue that it needs the court to enforce.

 

 

I still cant conceive of any scenario where we “win” but not enough to be reinstated, just enough for compo.

 

If we win we are reinstated unless that is impossible. At the moment I can’t see why that wouldn’t be the case.

 

I can’t see how we can “half win” the case -  it seems binary to me.

 

 

Can't remember if it was Boreland or Moynihan that basically said if the league starts ahead of arbitration decision we just 'stop and start again'

 

I'm far from convinced that what those 2 told Lord Clark at times were accurate (50 panel members already sent over when not; panel members are generally legal professionals, but as we know not necessarily and can start quickly as legal panel members are retired and likely available to start at speed, and didn't)

[niblick1874]

11 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

 

I still cant conceive of any scenario where we “win” but not enough to be reinstated, just enough for compo.

 

If we win we are reinstated unless that is impossible. At the moment I can’t see why that would be the case.

 

I can’t see how we can “half win” the case -  it seems binary to me.

 

 

 

It's the way it is. It's a 1+1=2. There is nothing more to it. Here is another 1+1=2

 

All that is left is whether we win or not because all the votes that took place to do with this other than the rangers one had to do with doing down fellow members and guess what. They can't do that. Guess what that means.

[OmiyaHearts]

12 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

The city until the buses were de-regulated and first bus took over, you knew where the Lord Provost leaned, as the buses were either Green, White, and Gold, or Orange. Glasgow the city as in bricks or mortars is not the problem, its Glaswegians themselves. Like scousers all the males are born comedians. Dont care what anyone in Glasgow says. They are thoroughly pissed off that Edinburgh is the capital city and Glasgow is not.

Envious of Glasgow, not as long as my arse points downwards.

No one in Glasgow cares. You've just made up shite about Glasgow, so you can have a go. That's fair enough, most people do it on here. If it helps you sleep, keep it up.

 

What a weirdo.

[Jambo66]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

I think the SFA charge relates to a failure to follow process,  rather than our right to legal recourse.    We didn't ask first.

The fundamental problem with that rule though is that if we ask and they say no, we are in a whole heap more trouble if we still go to court.

 

My view is that the rule is almost unenforceable.

[Jambof3tornado]

6 minutes ago, Deevers said:

  Much to hide methinks. Hopefully these professional gentlemen who make up the panel have had the integrity to deal with all that comes out in the course of this scrupulously. 

Not sure how they get on the list of potentials to start with or if any retainer fees are paid by spfl?!?

 

Much to hide a massive understatement....pity it didnt stay open in CoS

[John Findlay]

5 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

No one in Glasgow cares. You've just made up shite about Glasgow, so you can have a go. That's fair enough, most people do it on here. If it helps you sleep, keep it up.

 

What a weirdo.

No I havent, all my father's family are from there, and I've suffered a fair few weedgies in the occupations I've had. I havent had to make anything up. I am speaking from life experience.

 

If that makes me a weirdo in your eyes, I couldnt give a shite.

[ri Alban]

26 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

The city until the buses were de-regulated and first bus took over, you knew where the Lord Provost leaned, as the buses were either Green, White, and Gold, or Orange. Glasgow the city as in bricks or mortars is not the problem, its Glaswegians themselves. Like scousers all the males are born comedians. Dont care what anyone in Glasgow says. They are thoroughly pissed off that Edinburgh is the capital city and Glasgow is not.

Envious of Glasgow, not as long as my arse points downwards.

London is the Capital City and Edinburgh voted itself out. Sorry, but thems the facts. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by ri Alban

[OmiyaHearts]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

No I havent, all my father's family are from there, and I've suffered a fair few weedgies in the occupations I've had. I havent had to make anything up. I am speaking from life experience.

 

If that makes me a weirdo in your eyes, I couldnt give a shite.

No. You're definitely a weirdo. 

 

Glaswegians hate that Glasgow is not the capital is completely made up, as is your bus colour claims. Total fantasy. Anyway back on topic please.

Edited July 26, 2020 by OmiyaHearts

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Jambo66 said:

The fundamental problem with that rule though is that if we ask and they say no, we are in a whole heap more trouble if we still go to court.

 

My view is that the rule is almost unenforceable.

 

It's essentially notional.    If the SFA withheld or delayed permission and a club went ahead anyway,   the SFA could still attempt to sanction a club because the rule was still broken.    If the SFA withheld or delayed permission and a club desisted from taking legal action,   the SFA's rule is adhered to and the absence of legal action is the choice of the club.

 

The SFA cannot deny a club's legal right,   but it can probably argue that it's rule is separate from that.   If the SFA actually thought it could deny a club from it's legal right then the rule would be a simple and outright ban from taking any legal action,  in all circumstances.

[Deevers]

9 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Not sure how they get on the list of potentials to start with or if any retainer fees are paid by spfl?!?

 

Much to hide a massive understatement....pity it didnt stay open in CoS

Certainly how I feel. The court would have laid bare everything that went on. 
 

If these people are on any sort of retainer it will inevitably make people wonder if it’s a case of he who pays the piper, picks the tune if the ruling in this case goes against us.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Deevers

[Scnorthedinburgh]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

London is the Capital City and Edinburgh voted itself out. Sorry, but thems the facts. 

Any idea when a football chat will kick off?

[SMJ_1874]

22 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Traditionally the main bus company in Edinburgh had maroon buses. 

The lesser used buses (Scottish omnibuses and latterly East Coast etc) 

were green. 

Maroon = big bus team

Green     = wee bus team

😁

🤣🤣 nice one LD 

[heatonjambo]

43 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Bearing your sole, eh?

 

 

  Turbot sure

[Ribble]

38 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

If a government wanted to interfere I doubt FIFA could stop them.

no but they could ban our national team from playing and influence UEFA to ban our clubs from European competition 

[John Findlay]

13 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

London is the Capital City and Edinburgh voted itself out. Sorry, but thems the facts. 

Capital of the UK and England, I was always taught Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland, weren't you?

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Ribble said:

no but they could ban our national team from playing and influence UEFA to ban our clubs from European competition 

 

Wouldn't that save Scotland's national side and its clubs from further embarassing themselves? 🤔

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Ribble said:

no but they could ban our national team from playing and influence UEFA to ban our clubs from European competition 

 

[RENE]

People have got to stop thinking of this as a football matter.   It doesn't  matter if the SPFL have to reorganise fixtures or reconstructiin, all the Panel is interest in is if the SPFL broke company Law.   If they did they will say so and consequently we will be back in Premiership unless we agree to demotion and compensation.   And compensation will not be small.  

I don't  know how this will end up but I refuse to think other than a win for us....

 

[Beast Boy]

20 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

No. You're definitely a weirdo. 

 

Glaswegians hate that Glasgow is not the capital is completely made up, as is your bus colour claims. Total fantasy. Anyway back on topic please.

No it really isn’t. I’ve had Glaswegians make this claim to me. 

[Mid Calder Jambo]

39 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Traditionally the main bus company in Edinburgh had maroon buses. 

The lesser used buses (Scottish omnibuses and latterly East Coast etc) 

were green. 

Maroon = big bus team

Green     = wee bus team

😁

Aye and the green buses were always getting run out of town.

[Leveins Battalion]

I used to be friends with a weedgie,a smelly weedgie.He was only happy on giro day.

 

His Mum was a stealer,Dad was a dealer.******* took my hub caps away.

[John Findlay]

25 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

No. You're definitely a weirdo. 

 

Glaswegians hate that Glasgow is not the capital is completely made up, as is your bus colour claims. Total fantasy. Anyway back on topic please.

You must be very young. I can assure you my bus colour claims are one hundred percent true. How do you think the Glasgow subway got its nickname? You do know its nickname?

[Jamstomorrow]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

You must be very young. I can assure you my bus colour claims are one hundred percent true. How do you think the Glasgow subway got its nickname? You do know its nickname?

Clockwork orange?

[John Findlay]

Just now, Jamstomorrow said:

Clockwork orange?

Correct.

[GinRummy]

**** Glasgow!