SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Defender]

Just now, Gary Locke said:

So hibs, Ross county and Dundee United are voting no, let’s take this to court and at least get compensation for relegation 

 

Have these clubs outright said they're saying no? Not had my eyes on the news this week.

 

 

[Hearts1975]

2 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

 

And why the sympathy being cast ?

any clubs voting against it deserve the aggression. 

Nome of the aggression is aimed at the clubs who are supporting it 

[I.T.K]

Just now, AGoodLaugh said:

Most clubs also voted to relegate us in the first place 

 

Slim majority... but yeah.  

[EC_Hearts]

1 minute ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

 

I think the comments reflect what other clubs have said since the start of the fiasco. Not many supportive voices but loads telling us just to swallow it. Scottish football could disappear up it's own arse due to petty self interest.

[Hungry hippo]

First time the fans are completely united in along time.

 

I'm sure we'll hear from the club although it's not even confirmed by the SPFL yet.

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

Just now, I.T.K said:

 

Maybe Doncaster is allowing some teams too change their vote.....

 

I dont think he wants to go to court. 

 

I cant imagine he would like to discuss under oath what he spoke to Dundee about before they said to ignore their vote.

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

 

Most clubs voted to end the season and relegate us.

[The Verminator]

1 minute ago, Gary Locke said:

So hibs, Ross county and Dundee United are voting no, let’s take this to court and at least get compensation for relegation 

Some are saying Rangers voted no too and the DR says at least 3 - total and utter shambles

[Gary Locke]

Just now, Defender said:

 

Have these clubs outright said they're saying no? Not had my eyes on the news this week.

 

 

Tbh with you I’m just going from twitter and this thread but I’d be amazed if hibs voted yes just to please there fans who are desperate for us to go down...

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

Nearly every club voted to demote us.

 

The quote is that if Resolution had failed the back up included no relegation.

 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, 8skacel8 said:

Interesting how its only the Daily Record reporting this.

They’ve been the SPFL mouthpiece through  much of this.  Not a stretch to believe that Jackson has an insider who is correct with his story last night that the SPFL has no intention of using its executive powers  - more believable to me anyway than the wishful thinking of Leslie Deans. 
 

Fine, we’ll just save ourselves then, will be more satisfying that way even if it does mean the Championship with compensation. 

 

 Press the button please, Ann - we’ve had 2 months of delays, we can’t have any more.  We should have followed the French and Belgian clubs at the same time - we might have had a chance of still being in the Premiership. 

[JamboGraham]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

The indicative vote needs to succeed before an EGM can be called

 

Ah, so it’s not just a show of hands it’s an actual vote then? Is it just quirk of the articles then that to pass it would need each club to vote twice? Probably my fault for taking the word indicative literally.

[AndrewB]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I cant imagine he would like to discuss under oath what he spoke to Dundee about before they said to ignore their vote.

It was probably "I'll make sure that Hearts are there to bring their big crowd to your place."

Oh, Neil.

[Ethan Hunt]

Can we all please be clear. This notion that the SPFL are doing all this as “it shows they tried and would help their case in court” is utter nonsense.

 

There is a timeline of events. They caused that timeline to be the way it is. Their lack of governance and poor decision making throughout has what has led us here. The SPFL have went against the fundamental obligations of their own rules and regulations, and those of the SFA which are dictated by UEFA, and must be included as per Article 7b. 

 

Obligations of Member Associations
Article 7b is
1 Member Associations shall have the following obligations:
a) to observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the principles of fair play;
b) to comply with these Statutes and regulations and decisions made under them as well as the decisions of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne (Switzerland);
c) to respect the Laws of the Game as decided by the International Football Association Board (IFAB).
Member Associations shall include these obligations in their statutes, as well as a provision that leagues, clubs, players and officials shall observe these obligations.

 

The UEFA articles of association are worth a read, particularly Articles 7, 8 and 9. There is wider reaching issues for the SPFL/SFA should this go to court. I think that may well be what Leslie Deans hinted at in his press release.

 

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/WhatUEFAis/02/09/93/25/2099325_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

Hearts case is a very strong one. Doncaster is attempting to hid behind the ‘democratic will’ of the clubs. It won’t wash in court. There is little that they can do to undo or defend what they have already done. IMO.

[MCW1976]

I thought an obvious majority agreeing to recon meant it goes to an EGM?

 

What are the full numbers?

 

[Hungry hippo]

6 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

 

 

Damage was done with the first vote.

[CJGJ]

2 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

It would be nice to hear from our own club

Why ?...to make you feel better ?

 

The first part of the voting process is taking place today..then we may see a move towards an official vote so if there is a vote why upset those still considering their decision

 

There is nothing to say publicly or nothing to be gained at this time by doing so.

 

Over the last few days there will have been chats but remember this is not our proposal being voted on but the authorities.

[martoon]

I'm posting nothing until there is actual confirmation of any indicative votes. Who's to say the posters who've suggested United and Rangers have said no are any more itk than anyone else?

Edited June 15, 2020 by martoon

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, AHS51 said:

 

I totally appreciate the compensation could be expensive for clubs I just would hate if the game did not learn from this episode and just revert back to the status quo - which it more likely will. I would love a hefty compensation and a change in which the game is governed in this country but probably pie in the sky thinking with the latter. 

 

Fair points. I totally agree with you although I am extremely doubtful we will see any change in how the game is run in this country 

 

For me all the clubs that will vote know fully well the consequences of their actions and decision making prior to casting their respective votes 

 

it’s not like brexit where most folk never had a clue what the consequences of each decision would be at the time they were asked to vote. 

[Valois No1]

Ok so looks like a legal case is going to happen.....did I see somewhere that there was a fund being created where we can chip in to help fund the cause?

[vegas-voss]

The sad part of it is that once we are back in the top league fans will be clamouring for derby tickets for Easter Road.**** them and reduce their allocation to the minimum as well.

[Robbo-Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Goodfella said:

Think even ITK guys here said it was going to fail. Any hope they had of recon was further down the road. If we get a decent number of Yes votes that's a positive. What I hope doesn't happen is Doncaster gives yet another stalling tactic. The legal action has to start now.

Agree, enough is enough. 

 

Let's get the ball rolling and blast this all out the water in court. 

 

Make these dishonest, crappy clubs suffer in the worst possible way by hitting them in the pocket and bring chaos to the start of the season for the clowns that run our game. 

 

Give them all exactly what they deserve since the beginning of this farce. 

[Victorian]

The thing is,    it's impossible to know who is open to proposals and who is not.    It's impossible to have any faith in what they're saying.     It looks like a good few of them aren't even prepared to divulge their intentions.    You don't know who is working with others.    Manipulating things from the shadows.

 

If news came out later that 12 clubs were now indicating support,    by the time the vote came how much faith could you have that they would stick to it?    None.

 

The culture of secrecy and duplicity has been allowed to take root and not one of them has stated an honest looking argument in favour of reconstruction.    

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Ah, so it’s not just a show of hands it’s an actual vote then? Is it just quirk of the articles then that to pass it would need each club to vote twice? Probably my fault for taking the word indicative literally.

Clubs were asked to email their views to Doncaster by 10 today. Two questions asked, support 14/10/10/10 and support shortened timeframe for egm if required. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

 

Slim majority... but yeah.  

34 out of 42 is a slim majority?!

Edited June 15, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Ah, so it’s not just a show of hands it’s an actual vote then? Is it just quirk of the articles then that to pass it would need each club to vote twice? Probably my fault for taking the word indicative literally.

It’s a procedural quirk. They can call an EGM vote in 7 days if they have a positive indicative vote. If they don’t, an EGM takes 28 days. I’m pretty sure the indicative vote needs to be positive, but the BBC article suggests that an EGM can be called if it’s failed but close (not sure that’s correct though)

[The Internet]

27 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

I'm more and more inclined to believe a lot of the ITK stuff we get fed on here is complete nonsense. 

 

Was there still any doubt about that Folk just guess and get one right every so often and claim a massive victory. Anyone getting fed proper info isn't going to chuck it about on here. 

[colinmaroon]

According to Evening Hibby, vote fails/SPFL to call EGM in 28 days.

 

PS Last part my opinion, dragging it out to get nearer to start of season.

Edited June 15, 2020 by colinmaroon

[kingantti1874]

18 minutes ago, larne hmfc said:

100%. Trying to get the Hearts fans back in their grounds. 

too ****ing late

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Can we all please be clear. This notion that the SPFL are doing all this as “it shows they tried and would help their case in court” is utter nonsense.

 

There is a timeline of events. They caused that timeline to be the way it is. Their lack of governance and poor decision making throughout has what has led us here. The SPFL have went against the fundamental obligations of their own rules and regulations, and those of the SFA which are dictated by UEFA, and must be included as per Article 7b. 

 

Obligations of Member Associations
Article 7b is
1 Member Associations shall have the following obligations:
a) to observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the principles of fair play;
b) to comply with these Statutes and regulations and decisions made under them as well as the decisions of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne (Switzerland);
c) to respect the Laws of the Game as decided by the International Football Association Board (IFAB).
Member Associations shall include these obligations in their statutes, as well as a provision that leagues, clubs, players and officials shall observe these obligations.

 

The UEFA articles of association are worth a read, particularly Articles 7, 8 and 9. There is wider reaching issues for the SPFL/SFA should this go to court. I think that may well be what Leslie Deans hinted at in his press release.

 

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/WhatUEFAis/02/09/93/25/2099325_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

Hearts case is a very strong one. Doncaster is attempting to hid behind the ‘democratic will’ of the clubs. It won’t wash in court. There is little that they can do to undo or defend what they have already done. IMO.

I suspect our legal team might also go after the Board members individually for allowing their organisation to behave outweigh their stated articles of association ie acting in the best interests of all member clubs. That might focus minds. 

[The Verminator]

4 minutes ago, martoon said:

I'm posting nothing until there is actual confirmation of any indicative votes. Who's to say the posters who've suggested United and Rangers have said no are any more itk than anyone else?

DR says it failed on their site

[Dagger Is Back]

8 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

 

 

The clubs couldn't wait to cast their votes first time around. Some even voted twice! This is despite the fact that they were told they had 28 days. The initial vote being tied to the release of cash was a major factor but not one of them stood up and said 'is there another way'

 

I don't actually WANT to see other clubs go to the wall once I step back and think about it. I just want my club to be treated fairly which we have not

 

Make no mistake though, AB needs to fight this as far as we can. If that means other clubs are in danger of going down then that's up to Scottish football and that clubs fans to do what we've done for 5 years now. If your club is in danger then YOU save it

 

Our consciences should be clear

[Ethan Hunt]

13 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

 

I’m not sure I know what to make of that.

[Clark Griswold]

5 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Why ?...to make you feel better ?

 

The first part of the voting process is taking place today..then we may see a move towards an official vote so if there is a vote why upset those still considering their decision

 

There is nothing to say publicly or nothing to be gained at this time by doing so.

 

Over the last few days there will have been chats but remember this is not our proposal being voted on but the authorities.

Something that seems to be lost on the DR

[Bazzas right boot]

29 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

Here is the point.

If the board use executive powers, Ross County might take them to court.  Maybe even such as Motherwell might think, despite the way they voted, that the vote has been disrespected.  Maybe, might, possibly.

 

 

If they don't use executive powers, we will take them to court.  Will, definitely, absolutely.

 

Why would rs and Motherwell go to court? 

To what end, what would they claim? 

 

You can't go to court because you are disrespected. 

 

 

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

The sad part of it is that once we are back in the top league fans will be clamouring for derby tickets for Easter Road.**** them and reduce their allocation to the minimum as well.

Hope not. 

[AndrewB]

When it comes to it, I'd like to see a joint press statement from AB, Jacqui Low, high heid yins at Falkirk, Stranraer, Kelty, Brora, Lowland League, Highland League saying they are jointly pursuing legal action.  Maybe we won't hear all this "Hearts plan fails" stuff all the time.

[kila]

It is looking more likely the SPFL board are going to have to save the clubs from themselves.

 

Funny I know given it was the SPFL board that set sail in this direction in the first place. They can disembark once forced through as there is no confidence left in them or Doncaster.

 

 

[colinmaroon]

COURT!!!

[Sooperstar]

Expect the SPFL to put forward a formal resolution with the claim that they believe they can work with dissenting clubs over coming days to deal with any concerns in advance of the formal vote deadline.

[redjambo]

Unleash. The. Lawyers.

[Nookie Bear]

13 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

So many aggressive comments on here towards rest of Scottish football. 

 

Most clubs are supporting the new league structure. 

 

 

 

Those clubs voted in haste the first time, were easily influenced, and knew the full ramifications of what it meant for us.

 

They have also had ample time since to publicly regret that decision and support a new approach.

 

They also sat back and watched one person do all the work on behalf of a pathetic 'leadership'

 

And they watched as that same person introduced someobody who was literally throwing money at the very same clubs...and have they all joined together to release a statement of thanks? I must have missed that.

 

So, in summary, **** them all.

[bigsuperslim1874]

1 minute ago, AndrewB said:

When it comes to it, I'd like to see a joint press statement from AB, Jacqui Low, high heid yins at Falkirk, Stranraer, Kelty, Brora, Lowland League, Highland League saying they are jointly pursuing legal action.  Maybe we won't hear all this "Hearts plan fails" stuff all the time.

100% 👍

[ericb]

1 minute ago, Sooperstar said:

Expect the SPFL to put forward a formal resolution with the claim that they believe they can work with dissenting clubs over coming days to deal with any concerns in advance of the formal vote deadline.

So they're gonna work with Hibs on their abject hatred and bitterness towards us?

[hughesie27]

Remember the vote was always going to "fail" today. The total number of teams that back it could influence whether the SPFL decide to go ahead and use this week to try and convince teams to change their mind.

Squghton Jambo himself said he thinks we would see about 30 teams back it.

 

If we still have teams like United who are supposedly not backing it because they don't want 2 automatic relegations, something that's never been reported as being part of the deal anyway, then we clearly need a much wider discussion.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, The Verminator said:

DR says it failed on their site

We all knew it would fail today, even those optimistic that reconstruction will still happen.  Hopefully it wasn’t close and we can finally get on with the legal action rather than waste another week or more for yet another pointless vote.  

[Beast Boy]

24 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Fat Thor?

 

Personal abuse. Reported. 

 

 

😉

 

Cuddly? 🤷‍♂️

[Ethan Hunt]

13 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

 

Slim majority... but yeah.  

81% of clubs is a slim majority?

[Hearts1975]

8 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Can we all please be clear. This notion that the SPFL are doing all this as “it shows they tried and would help their case in court” is utter nonsense.

 

There is a timeline of events. They caused that timeline to be the way it is. Their lack of governance and poor decision making throughout has what has led us here. The SPFL have went against the fundamental obligations of their own rules and regulations, and those of the SFA which are dictated by UEFA, and must be included as per Article 7b. 

 

Obligations of Member Associations
Article 7b is
1 Member Associations shall have the following obligations:
a) to observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the principles of fair play;
b) to comply with these Statutes and regulations and decisions made under them as well as the decisions of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne (Switzerland);
c) to respect the Laws of the Game as decided by the International Football Association Board (IFAB).
Member Associations shall include these obligations in their statutes, as well as a provision that leagues, clubs, players and officials shall observe these obligations.

 

The UEFA articles of association are worth a read, particularly Articles 7, 8 and 9. There is wider reaching issues for the SPFL/SFA should this go to court. I think that may well be what Leslie Deans hinted at in his press release.

 

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/WhatUEFAis/02/09/93/25/2099325_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

Hearts case is a very strong one. Doncaster is attempting to hid behind the ‘democratic will’ of the clubs. It won’t wash in court. There is little that they can do to undo or defend what they have already done. IMO.

Serious question, and it’s obvious from reading a number of your posts and tbf to you, you have took Some time to look into the legal aspects 

 

One question and it’s still an If ...

 

If we go to court and put the compensation piece to one side, and if we win our case on being expelled unfairly, what are the potential outcomes available for us, and if this happens 

 

I am just trying to get my head around this piece and it would be good to get your opinion. Appreciate it would just be an opinion at this stage.

[AndrewB]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Why would rs and Motherwell go to court? 

To what end, what would they claim? 

 

You can't go to court because you are disrespected. 

 

 

On the basis of abuse of power or something?  Scared that the precedent means that the board could trample over anything and everything?  Not sure it would happen really from a "Yes" voting club.