SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Shanks]

Wonder if the usual crowd will be on to say ‘no we can’t go to court we have to continue to explore every avenue, we have to wait etc etc’ 

[bobskeldon]

I have a bad feeling about this, I hope I am wrong but might we be in for and agreeing a 'settlement'?

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I agree!  My seethe and our boycott should be aimed at the clubs who voted to end the season in the original vote. 

As for ITK and DR stories and rumour  I prefer to take with a pinch of salt. 

We should know soon if the other teams are still against reconstruction and then it is time to instruct our lawyers. 

This has gone on long enough imo. 

. 

I agree, it has dragged on. I’d like to see court action and soon. 

[mitch41]

Hearts are now on a war of words footing. In fact it will be our enemies doing the shouting and because we will go to court against the SPFL Hearts should say nothing in public and I mean nothing and let the action do the talking. We don’t want any official quotes that might be used against us in court. Hearts must keep their own council regarding their case and evidence until we get to court.

[CJGJ]

Clyde starting to feel the pinch..

 

Clyde chairman John Taylor has warned the club are in a "critical period" as he pleaded with fans to help them raise £75,000 to compete in next season's SPFL.

In a worrying statement for Bully Wee fans, Taylor also moved to "dismiss the myth" that they received a huge windfall from this season's Scottish Cup clash with Celtic and warned there's a distinct possibility Clyde will not be in a position to play competitive football in 2020/21.

Taylor explained how the Covid-19 shutdown has impacted the Cumbernauld side and laid bare the club's losses in recent seasons.

A new fundraising scheme, 1877 Rewards, has been launched to help supporters donate to the club, but Taylor has stressed more will need to be done by the fans if they want to see their team in action again.

He said: “There is a possibility that we won’t be able to enter the club into competitive football next season, depending on the start date. There are clubs who have stated publicly, and privately, that given certain circumstances, their preference would be to ‘mothball’ for a season.

“That situation would arise if clubs had to put their players and staff through costly testing protocols, pay their players and staff after the removal of the furlough scheme and play their matches behind closed doors. In that scenario, with no income coming in, ‘mothballing’ is something we can’t discount, but we are determined to play if at all possible.

Most businesses have been affected by this pandemic and individuals who have supported the club extremely generously over many years are no exception

"However, in terms of the club’s financial strength going forward, we can’t pretend that Covid-19 has suddenly thwarted our upward trend on the football field.  It hasn’t. The downside of improving our league status over the last two seasons has come at a significant cost, and one that is not sustainable."

A planned fundraiser in March had to be cancelled due to the shutdown kicking in and Taylor hoped to use that to help support Danny Lennon's men on the pitch.

Taylor continued: "As owners of the club will be aware, we had incurred losses of £68,000 and £94,000 in the previous two seasons. That trend simply couldn't continue.

The strategy of recruiting a highly capable management team and a talented squad of players had achieved our on-field objectives, but a major rethink was required to maintain the growing ambitions of our loyal support.

“Only by increasing the level of financial support from the fans through a programme of regular monthly donations, can we achieve what we all want for our club.

"Without that we will have a playing budget that will eventually see us scrambling to avoid play-offs at the wrong end of League 2.

[Sooperstar]

10 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

The daily ******, as of one minute ago, is not running any story about today's vote having gone against us. the EEN story is a bit of lazy journalism referring to old news about AB's proposal

 

[doctor jambo]

The more time passes the better for us.

The later in the day we slap them with an interdict the less time they have to get the season running.

I could not give a shiny shite about any other team, or their opinions of us.

I want oceans of tears and snotters.

I want court.

I want to bring them ALL down now, insolvencies the feckin lot.

Blood for the blood God

[gnasher75]

Radio Scotland still not got news of the vote but saying SPFL Board is currently meeting to discuss. Guess they may be divided on saying that's it, going for EGM or using executive powers.

[bobskeldon]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

The more time passes the better for us.

The later in the day we slap them with an interdict the less time they have to get the season running.

I could not give a shiny shite about any other team, or their opinions of us.

I want oceans of tears and snotters.

I want court.

I want to bring them ALL down now, insolvencies the feckin lot.

Blood for the blood God

That is all dependent on us having the balls to do it! 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Sooperstar said:

 

Who knows if this is accurate but if it is, the SPFL board isn’t going to push reconstruction through themselves. This has to end. We need to go to court.

[Chuck Berry]

Let's not forget Partick and Falkirk here, fulltime clubs with decent supports facing the very real possibility of no football at all next season because the tin pot part-timers can't raise teams.

[DETTY29]

BBC still non-committal.

 

If it is failing I'd take 9-3 with United switching after getting promoted not on the pitch and the other 2 being Hibs and that hypocritical religious nut job at County.

 

  

Edited June 15, 2020 by DETTY29

[busby1985]

Kherdine what ever his name is, is reporting that reconstruction is dead and it’s either accept it or court. 

[Debut 4]

9 minutes ago, Barack said:

Bread & water? 

Turn the cisterns water feeds off in the dressing room toilets and leave an unflushed Greyfriars Bobby in the Jackie Chan.

 

That'll teach um... 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Debut 4

[Ethan Hunt]

Just now, Hearts1975 said:

Serious question, and it’s obvious from reading a number of your posts and tbf to you, you have took Some time to look into the legal aspects 

 

One question and it’s still an If ...

 

If we go to court and put the compensation piece to one side, and if we win our case on being expelled unfairly, what are the potential outcomes available for us, and if this happens 

 

I am just trying to get my head around this piece and it would be good to get your opinion. Appreciate it would just be an opinion at this stage.

To be honest I’ve always looked at it from the evidence gathering side of things. I’ve looked at where the SPFL and clubs actions may have been in breach their own, or other associated organisations, articles or rules and regulations, and in law. It is clear when you start digging there are numerous strands that intertwine and are overriding principles and obligations.  In addition, there is Company Law, Competitions and Markets Authority, which then point to how did the organisation act as a whole, and how did any person carry out their individual duty within the process. Any case is better to have multiple strands of evidence, like a rope, intertwining the strands make it stronger. If the strands can be made up of breaches of law, articles of association and rules and regulations, it makes it harder to break. When there might be a defence against one, it could be argued in favour against another. It’s all about having all of you guns pointed at the same targets, and with each gun having as many bullets as possible.

 

To be honest that’s a long winded way of saying I don’t really know. I would leave what the argument in court would be for to others who are better qualified than me to answer. What I will say it that there are plenty of precedents now. By playing the waiting game we have benefitted enormously as we wouldn’t have been able to use the decisions in France and Belgium, or the evidence that we are one of very few countries (I think someone posted that we were maybe the only top league in Europe) who have taken this route. Any argument of self interest has been completely blown out of the water. Partick Thistles statement of “do no harm” has  flipped argument against the SPFL. 

 

If it were left to me I would be zeroing in on the initial resolution (was it competent, the only viable option as the SPFL board stated and did not breach the articles of association/rules and regulations) and the Dundee vote, was it cast as soon as it was sent. Prove those and everything that has went on thereafter has been illegal. There are other factors as well previously mentioned by others, how play offs that might have resulted in a team being relegated where cancelled, but relegation itself was not. I’d be going for reinstatement and is in France would expect reconstruction on the the same basis, there is no insurmountable reason as to why the league could not have been expanded.

 

We have a really strong case in my opinion. The original QC advice given to the SPFL acknowledged there could be a legal challenge. What the QC advice at that time didn’t account for was the utterly shambolic - and potentially illegal - way the SPFL would deal with it and that there would be precedents set by other footballing associations, and courts and other authorities in various different countries. 

 

Apologies for not really answering your question.

 

Now, press the button Ann. Only Hearts.

[mitch41]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The more time passes the better for us.

The later in the day we slap them with an interdict the less time they have to get the season running.

I could not give a shiny shite about any other team, or their opinions of us.

I want oceans of tears and snotters.

I want court.

I want to bring them ALL down now, insolvencies the feckin lot.

Blood for the blood God

That’s just how I feel brother.

[Last Laff]

41 minutes ago, bigsuperslim1874 said:

100% 👍

Hearts have a lot better legal chance than Falkirk and the highland and lowland teams ffs.  **** going into any joint action unless Partick.  Stranraer are chancers too. 

[AndrewB]

The thing about the DR story is that the vote is "indicative."  So if three say "actually we're against" that tells ND he needs to speak to the three and try to convince them because the majority are for.  I actually don't think three "indicating" no now means it is actually dead.

 

However, I would be happy if the three said "we are voting no and NOTHING will make us change."  In that case, there would be no point in an EGM, so ND can say so and we can serve papers.  The stalling process does not help us re the new season, unless we are in the Championship, which obviously starts later.  I don't want to be in the Championship, even with a sweetener, because I can see the drawbridge being pulled up by Ross C, Hamilton, St Mirren, Hibs regarding promotion and relegation through some fatuous argument.

[Last Laff]

Just now, mitch41 said:

That’s just how I feel brother.

The longer it goes the less chance anything getting stopped happens.  

[Boyces beard]

1 minute ago, busby1985 said:

Kherdine what ever his name is, is reporting that reconstruction is dead and it’s either accept it or court. 

Get To Court

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Been some absolute drivel posted on here by people who clearly had no idea what was happening 

[hibsarepants]

So 75% voted for change but it cant proceed. I would have thought any Court case for damages and any case to the competition authorities would have a field day with this fact along. What an admission of guilt by a membership organisation. 

[bigsuperslim1874]

Just now, Last Laff said:

Hearts have a lot better legal chance than Falkirk and the highland and lowland teams ffs.  **** going into any joint action unless Partick.  Stranraer are chancers too. 

Don’t agree mate but whatever - your opinion.

[Ethan Hunt]

46 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I suspect our legal team might also go after the Board members individually for allowing their organisation to behave outweigh their stated articles of association ie acting in the best interests of all member clubs. That might focus minds. 

Absolutely. Any and every avenue will be used.

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, AndrewB said:

The thing about the DR story is that the vote is "indicative."  So if three say "actually we're against" that tells ND he needs to speak to the three and try to convince them because the majority are for.  I actually don't think three "indicating" no now means it is actually dead.

 

However, I would be happy if the three said "we are voting no and NOTHING will make us change."  In that case, there would be no point in an EGM, so ND can say so and we can serve papers.  The stalling process does not help us re the new season, unless we are in the Championship, which obviously starts later.  I don't want to be in the Championship, even with a sweetener, because I can see the drawbridge being pulled up by Ross C, Hamilton, St Mirren, Hibs regarding promotion and relegation through some fatuous argument.

I get the feeling its more that 3 against 

[gnasher75]

2 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Kherdine what ever his name is, is reporting that reconstruction is dead and it’s either accept it or court. 

 

Where?

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

Let's not forget Partick and Falkirk here, fulltime clubs with decent supports facing the very real possibility of no football at all next season because the tin pot part-timers can't raise teams.

Either Falkirk or Raith was going to be in that position regardless.  Partick and Us are the two most hit with this. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Another day of going through the motions. 

 

At what point do we head French Belgium. 

 

There's got to be some sense we haven't done so yet

[Last Laff]

Just now, bigsuperslim1874 said:

Don’t agree mate but whatever - your opinion.

No problem 👍

[Fxxx the SPFL]

When can we expect the Celtic reconstruction proposals to come out !! this has been as others have stated one big delaying tactic,  WE NEED TO GET TO COURT NOW.  I'm sure Mrs B and our lawyers will have a statement already prepared so look forward to seeing it announced as soon as the SPFL advise Hearts officially.

[Harry Potter]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Who knows if this is accurate but if it is, the SPFL board isn’t going to push reconstruction through themselves. This has to end. We need to go to court.

No other choice bud, this carry on has gone on long enough. 

[flem]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Been some absolute drivel posted on here by people who clearly had no idea what was happening 

 

Does this not happen every single time we are waiting on some form of news 😄

[Chuck Berry]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

Either Falkirk or Raith was going to be in that position regardless.  Partick and Us are the two most hit with this. 

 

Neither would be in that position if 14-10-10-10 carries.

[Sooperstar]

Definitely need to get those court proceedings started today if the indicative vote has gone against. 

[bigsuperslim1874]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

No problem 👍

👍

[stevie1874]

4 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

That is all dependent on us having the balls to do it! 

Would our club have the balls not to and alienate the support

[mitch41]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Been some absolute drivel posted on here by people who clearly had no idea what was happening 

Tell us about the drivel please. Just leave us to blow of steam before we get down to business.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Chuck Berry said:

Let's not forget Partick and Falkirk here, fulltime clubs with decent supports facing the very real possibility of no football at all next season because the tin pot part-timers can't raise teams.

It’s unforgivable. Perhaps the biggest prick in all this is the boy at Ross County. Consistently blocked everything he can, yet not long ago, it could have been Ross county who were Donald ducked down there. His personal grudge with ICT driving everything he does.

 

An absolute stroker of a guy. 

[queensferryjambo]

5 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

Radio Scotland still not got news of the vote but saying SPFL Board is currently meeting to discuss. Guess they may be divided on saying that's it, going for EGM or using executive powers.

 

 

I think the use of executive powers will never happen and in fact I am sure the SPFL made a statement saying they wouldn't use them only a few days ago.

[Hearts1975]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

To be honest I’ve always looked at it from the evidence gathering side of things. I’ve looked at where the SPFL and clubs actions may have been in breach their own, or other associated organisations, articles or rules and regulations, and in law. It is clear when you start digging there are numerous strands that intertwine and are overriding principles and obligations.  In addition, there is Company Law, Competitions and Markets Authority, which then point to how did the organisation act as a whole, and how did any person carry out their individual duty within the process. Any case is better to have multiple strands of evidence, like a rope, intertwining the strands make it stronger. If the strands can be made up of breaches of law, articles of association and rules and regulations, it makes it harder to break. When there might be a defence against one, it could be argued in favour against another. It’s all about having all of you guns pointed at the same targets, and with each gun having as many bullets as possible.

 

To be honest that’s a long winded way of saying I don’t really know. I would leave what the argument in court would be for to others who are better qualified than me to answer. What I will say it that there are plenty of precedents now. By playing the waiting game we have benefitted enormously as we wouldn’t have been able to use the decisions in France and Belgium, or the evidence that we are one of very few countries (I think someone posted that we were maybe the only top league in Europe) who have taken this route. Any argument of self interest has been completely blown out of the water. Partick Thistles statement of “do no harm” has  flipped argument against the SPFL. 

 

If it were left to me I would be zeroing in on the initial resolution (was it competent, the only viable option as the SPFL board stated and did not breach the articles of association/rules and regulations) and the Dundee vote, was it cast as soon as it was sent. Prove those and everything that has went on thereafter has been illegal. There are other factors as well previously mentioned by others, how play offs that might have resulted in a team being relegated where cancelled, but relegation itself was not. I’d be going for reinstatement and is in France would expect reconstruction on the the same basis, there is no insurmountable reason as to why the league could not have been expanded.

 

We have a really strong case in my opinion. The original QC advice given to the SPFL acknowledged there could be a legal challenge. What the QC advice at that time didn’t account for was the utterly shambolic - and potentially illegal - way the SPFL would deal with it and that there would be precedents set by other footballing associations, and courts and other authorities in various different countries. 

 

Apologies for not really answering your question.

 

Now, press the button Ann. Only Hearts.

No worries. Appreciate you taking the time to respond. Wasn’t trying to put you on the spot or anything. 👍

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Neither would be in that position if 14-10-10-10 carries.

While true if the leagues finished to an end one of they teams would be still in the league 1.  It’s hard to feel sorry for every single team in any position as hearts are being totally shafted.  

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, mitch41 said:

Tell us about the drivel please. Just leave us to blow of steam before we get down to business.

“This reconstruction is going to get the support it needs.”

 

”Even if it doesn’t, the SPFL will take an executive decision to force it though.”

 

Fairytales

[bobskeldon]

Just now, stevie1874 said:

Would our club have the balls not to and alienate the support

I'm not sure that is a particularly pertinent issue for AB! 

[AndrewB]

8 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

Radio Scotland still not got news of the vote but saying SPFL Board is currently meeting to discuss. Guess they may be divided on saying that's it, going for EGM or using executive powers.

Yeah, but the board were always going to be meeting  regardless of the outcome of the indicative vote.

 

The SPFL board will meeting on Monday morning to discuss the responses and are expected to make a statement later in the day. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53036238   Usual standard of grammar, by the way.)

 

 

 

 

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Definitely need to get those court proceedings started today if the indicative vote has gone against. 

This was crystal clear two weeks ago and needs done now. No more pish about executive decisions and the vote going our way. It’s a load of shit and it’s just drawing matters out further. 

[JamboGraham]

Assume some robust calls going on at the moment...recent actions from the SPFL suggest quick statements when a decision is reached...

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It’s unforgivable. Perhaps the biggest prick in all this is the boy at Ross County. Consistently blocked everything he can, yet not long ago, it could have been Ross county who were Donald ducked down there. His personal grudge with ICT driving everything he does.

 

An absolute stroker of a guy. 

He’s shown himself to be a right

[Ethan Hunt]

1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

No worries. Appreciate you taking the time to respond. Wasn’t trying to put you on the spot or anything. 👍

I would happily say that I am extremely confident of winning whatever court case we bring.

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

“This reconstruction is going to get the support it needs.”

 

”Even if it doesn’t, the SPFL will take an executive decision to force it though.”

 

Fairytales

Correct.  

[Chuck Berry]

Just now, Last Laff said:

While true if the leagues finished to an end one of they teams would be still in the league 1.  It’s hard to feel sorry for every single team in any position as hearts are being totally shafted.  

 

If the leagues were played to a finish, Partick finish 8th, Raith/Falkirk win league, Raith/Falkirk win play-off. All three in the Championship next season.  That scenario was very achievable, so whilst Partick's situation in being relegated is outrageous, Falkirk can also feel very aggrieved.