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They Can't Relegate Us (Legally)


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Neverforgetfiveone
1 hour ago, Hearts_fan said:

I previously said if it's decided Hearts should be relegated after just 30 games, given the context, we should accept it with dignity. 

 

However, I've changed my mind. If Hearts see fit to legally contest such a decision I'll be right behind them.

 

Imagine the start of last season didn't happen. How many points did we take from the first 8 games.. 20+? That's largely why weren't in relegation trouble at the end of the season. 

 

Here we are with 8 games still unplayed. There's no reason why we shouldn't get the requisite circa 17 points from them. 

We’ve won 4 league games this season. 4 games out of 30. Where is the evidence to suggest we could win another 5 games. If we’d beaten St Mirren I’d possibly see your point.

 

We are not going down because of Coronavirus, we are going down because we have been ****ing shite! It breaks my heart to say it but we deserve to go down. We’ve been a ****ing joke for 3 years. 

 

Levein, Cathro, Stendel, Budge...... ****ing disaster!! Complete and utter mismanagement across the whole club.

 

That’s why we’re going down!

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Bazzas right boot

Had a feeling that the St mirren game would be far more important giving the situation. 

 

Whatever happens someone will be pissed off, there is no one size fits all solution. 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Peebo said:

We should, then, be demanding the opposite. And electing people who don’t make such reactive decisions. 

 

We should, but until we get who/what we vote for/want, we cannot. If the folk in positions of power just fart out hasty unfair decisions that are to our detriment, then we need to react acordingly.

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In all honesty would anyone here be that at all surprised if the GFA decided to relegate us when we haven’t played a full season. Yes we have 8 games to play still and could still pull ourselves out of this mess(not likely I know) but they know they will have the biggest legal battle

coming their way. 
not gonna lie and say we don’t deserve to go down because my oh my we have been shite for a long long time. 
I don’t know why we can’t just follow the proposed EPL plan which is promote the top two from the championship and relegate no one and the next season relegate more teams to balance it out. 
we have all been wanting a bigger league, who wants to play Hamilton, st Mirren 3 times a year,  expand to 14/16 teams, give Celtic the title because quite frankly who really gives a rats ass about 9iar. 
 

but that’s common sense and we all know that the GFA don’t have any(refer to two semi finals at Hampden on the same day) 

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Just now, Smith's right boot said:

Had a feeling that the St mirren game would be far more important giving the situation. 

 

Whatever happens someone will be pissed off, there is no one size fits all solution. 

 

 

 

Honestly :laugh2:??  You had a crystal ball telling you that those three points were far more important than the three we got against Hibs ?? I am getting a very strong smell of shite. Of course they points would have been precious but to come with that crap is just amazing revisionism ... IMO

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Bazzas right boot
4 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Honestly :laugh2:??  You had a crystal ball telling you that those three points were far more important than the three we got against Hibs ?? I am getting a very strong smell of shite. Of course they points would have been precious but to come with that crap is just amazing revisionism ... IMO

 

 

Read the match thread, I said as much. 

 

A few folk folk said it was important to get of the bottom in case of this. 

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3 minutes ago, Neverforgetfiveone said:

If we’d beaten St Mirren I’d possibly see your point.

 

Suddenly the St Mirren game was pivotal... what a lot of poop! It has become some sort of crutch for those who persistently want to down the team and now of course gives roasters the chance to say "we deserve to go down" . Nobody has the right to, with eight games to play any team deserves anything! And the we deserve to be given something patter started in a presser at Darkheid ... tells you all you need to know!

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6 minutes ago, Neverforgetfiveone said:

We’ve won 4 league games this season. 4 games out of 30. Where is the evidence to suggest we could win another 5 games. If we’d beaten St Mirren I’d possibly see your point.

 

We are not going down because of Coronavirus, we are going down because we have been ****ing shite! It breaks my heart to say it but we deserve to go down. We’ve been a ****ing joke for 3 years. 

 

Levein, Cathro, Stendel, Budge...... ****ing disaster!! Complete and utter mismanagement across the whole club.

 

That’s why we’re going down!

 

There is plenty of evidence out there. What has gone before is not necessarily an indicator of future results. We went on a ten plus games winning run a couple of seasons ago, before shitting the bed and struggling to get a result since. We could just as easily go on another such run. With that in mind, it would be because of coronavirus that we go down, since a fifth of the season would be left unplayed.

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10 minutes ago, Neverforgetfiveone said:

We’ve won 4 league games this season. 4 games out of 30. Where is the evidence to suggest we could win another 5 games. If we’d beaten St Mirren I’d possibly see your point.

 

We are not going down because of Coronavirus, we are going down because we have been ****ing shite! It breaks my heart to say it but we deserve to go down. We’ve been a ****ing joke for 3 years. 

 

Levein, Cathro, Stendel, Budge...... ****ing disaster!! Complete and utter mismanagement across the whole club.

 

That’s why we’re going down!

 

You mean you are sitting frapping away down Lochend hoping it happens. But on the face of you asking about evidence, anything can happen in footy just look back at Leicester City bottom of the EPL touted as certs for the drop... the miraculously stage a complete reversal stay up and the next season win the EPL  . But you " as a Hearts supporter" prefer to down the team and say we actually deserve to relegated before the season is finished because we are four points adrift and there are still 24 up for grabs ? Honestly a ha ma douts.

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The mental gymnastics being employed by some posters on here (who we have to just assume are all Hearts supporters 🙄), in order to justify the SPFL demoting us without completing the fixtures is totally laughable. The we deserve what we get attitude is baffling to me, and I would hope the majority are interlopers.

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IveSeenTheLight
52 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Any SFA decision would immediately become indefensible if it proved to be a complete outlier to every other league in Europe.

 

I don't believe that would stand in legal terms.

I'm guessing the UEFA announcement tomorrow will be on Champions League, Europa League and the Euro's

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David McCaig
Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I don't believe that would stand in legal terms.

I'm guessing the UEFA announcement tomorrow will be on Champions League, Europa League and the Euro's

I disagree I think they will cover domestic leagues as well as that directly impacts on qualification the Champions and Europa Leagues.

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Seymour M Hersh
5 hours ago, Barack said:

Don't trust Doncaster. The path of least resistance and financial ease for his cash-strapped shithouse, is all he cares about. 

 

Will I be annoyed if we get dumped? Yes.

Will I be surprised? Not at all.

 

Interesting times ahoy.

 

Ahar, shiver me timbers you might be right matey! 

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1 minute ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I don't believe that would stand in legal terms.

I'm guessing the UEFA announcement tomorrow will be on Champions League, Europa League and the Euro's

It is and as far as im aware nothing else is being discussed.

 

I think people are kidding themselves if they think we cant be relegated because of this due to the league not finishing.

 

Its a possible outcome but how that plays out if clubs cant survive till the start of a new season i dont know.

 

If the season is declared finished and a club then goes into admin after that what happens ? Do they start next season on a -15 points and we are in the Championship? 

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IveSeenTheLight
2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I disagree I think they will cover domestic leagues as well as that directly impacts on qualification the Champions and Europa Leagues.

 

Lets wait and see then.

My understanding is that associations could nominate whoever they want to represent the association in Europe but that all conform to a basic standard.

It's not a foregone conclusion though.

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7 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

It is and as far as im aware nothing else is being discussed.

 

I think people are kidding themselves if they think we cant be relegated because of this due to the league not finishing.

 

Its a possible outcome but how that plays out if clubs cant survive till the start of a new season i dont know.

 

If the season is declared finished and a club then goes into admin after that what happens ? Do they start next season on a -15 points and we are in the Championship? 

 

We may well be in a better financial position than some others to survive the drop in income from competition postponement, but that is no reason for us to be offered up on a plate to take a further financial hit through demotion to the division below. It will be tough times riding out the financial impact of all of this as it is, the added challenges and pressures of being in the division below could hurt us very badly indeed.

 

We absolutely must not accept our financial security and very existence being put in jeopardy over something as ultimately unimportant as the bragging rights of Celtic and Rangers supporters over which of them can devalue the league the most by winning a decade of consecutive titles.

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Bazzas right boot
20 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

The mental gymnastics being employed by some posters on here (who we have to just assume are all Hearts supporters 🙄), in order to justify the SPFL demoting us without completing the fixtures is totally laughable. The we deserve what we get attitude is baffling to me, and I would hope the majority are interlopers.

 

 

I don't think it's about deserving or justification. 

 

It's about solutions. 

 

One solution is, like it or not to take the league Positions as they are and go on that. 

It's a possibility. 

 

It's only  one amongst many however. 

 

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1 hour ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Totally agree. They can ram it as far as I am concerned.

If they relegate us, we should just claim the Scottish cup as a sweetener as we basically had it won anyway.

 

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King Of The Cat Cafe

The SPFL will be trying hard to come up with a logic for making Celtic champions.

 

That same logic - in their minds anyway - relegates Hearts.

 

We may not like it, but none of us will be surprised.

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RudiSkacelsLeftPeg

I cannot get my head around the fact so many Hearts fans think we deserve to go down and are happy enough to accept it. 
 

Absolute bizarre behaviour. 

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jack D and coke
16 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Scottish football is facing a call to declare the current campaign null and void due to the coronavirus outbreak.

According to the Press Association at least one Scottish Premiership club is ready to demand SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster cancels the season if it cannot be completed, after all football in Scotland was postponed on Friday "until further notice".

A source told PA: "We don't see how titles, promotion or relegation can be agreed on any basis of sporting fairness."

They added: "Perhaps prize money can be split on the basis of the current table.

"But the league should be ruled void and we start next season as we commenced this one.

"Making the season void is the best of a bunch of bad choices."

It’s very difficult to argue against that the more you think about it. Everytime you think someone comes up with a decent idea it’s taken apart again in minutes. 

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What happens will happen and we will need to deal with it good or bad.  But I would love to take this situation back to the closing weeks of season 85-86.  Can you imagine Davie Hay or Roy Aitken or Paul McStay or anyone else connected To Celtic accepting that if the season was over then things should stay as they are!!  Not a chance in hell.  Also there was an argument that Hearts deserved to win the league that season but they didn't.  The argument that Hearts deserve to be relegated because they are bottom with 8 games left is null and void.  

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12 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I don't think it's about deserving or justification. 

 

It's about solutions. 

 

One solution is, like it or not to take the league Positions as they are and go on that. 

It's a possibility. 

 

It's only  one amongst many however. 

 

 

It's a ridiculous potential solution that could place your football club in such a perilous situation, it may go bust.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

The SPFL will be trying hard to come up with a logic for making Celtic champions.

 

That same logic - in their minds anyway - relegates Hearts.

 

We may not like it, but none of us will be surprised.

 

That same logic could affect the very future existence of our football club. If they go down that route in an attempt to appease Celtic, and endanger the very existence of another club in order to achieve it, then we should tear the whole ****ing system down. Thankfully I am confident the people who run this club are not of the same meek disposition as some of our supporters, and I don't see them just bending over like them.

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Just now, jack D and coke said:

It’s very difficult to argue against that the more you think about it. Everytime you think someone comes up with a decent idea it’s taken apart again in minutes. 

 

There are only two options that are fair. First option the season recommences when it is safe to do so and all outstanding matches are played or option two the season is declared null and void. Anything other than those two is a complete whitewash . All the talk about European competitions is trivia for 99 % of the teams involved in this situation . Nobody no matter who they be has the right to bestow a championship win a promotion, relegation or any other outcome when the season has not been completed.

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17 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I don't think it's about deserving or justification. 

 

It's about solutions. 

 

One solution is, like it or not to take the league Positions as they are and go on that. 

It's a possibility. 

 

It's only  one amongst many however. 

 

 

It's not a solution as it rejects sporting integrity and natural justice. Funny how when Aberdeen were in the shit, they were saved by mid-season reconstruction. Something Hibs voted for to save their own skin too. Also we've seen Motherwell saved by league reconstruction.

Strange that when it's Hearts they are more than happy to send us down. It's fine for other clubs but no us, eh? ***** like Lawell & Petrie will be doing a Randy Marsh at getting away with relegating us. 

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4 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

The SFA will wait until the English FA make a decision...and then copy it. 

 

I asked this question earlier on in the thread but will do so again... what jurisdiction does the SFA have in the day to day running of the SPL? It was my belief that SPL club members were the ones who oversaw what happened in the SPL not the SFA... had it been so Rangers would never have been out of the SPL!

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IveSeenTheLight
1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

That same logic could affect the very future existence of our football club. If they go down that route in an attempt to appease Celtic, and endanger the very existence of another club in order to achieve it, then we should tear the whole ****ing system down. Thankfully I am confident the people who run this club are not of the same meek disposition as some of our supporters, and I don't see them just bending over like them.

 

One solution mooted is to expand the league to accommodate all those that "could" potentially gain promotion through the play-offs.

Is this viable?

Would going to an 18 or 20 league team season work? Infact, Partick Thistle theoretically could get to a play-off place, so could we just merge the Championship with the Premier League (22 team league)

Would there be relegation next season to split the leagues again?

Would there be enough time to play 42 league games (1 home and 1 away against all teams.

 

I'm struggling to see a solution that appeases all.

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15 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

The SFA will wait until the English FA make a decision...and then copy it. 

I hope they do as in that instance i think they'll extend the league.

 

Reading between the lines of what i've seen so far our league have no such desire to do so and would look to relegate.

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IveSeenTheLight
5 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

It's not a solution as it rejects sporting integrity and natural justice. Funny how when Aberdeen were in the shit, they were saved by mid-season reconstruction. Something Hibs voted for to save their own skin too. Also we've seen Motherwell saved by league reconstruction.

Strange that when it's Hearts they are more than happy to send us down. It's fine for other clubs but no us, eh? ***** like Lawell & Petrie will be doing a Randy Marsh at getting away with relegating us. 

 

There was no mid season reconstruction.

It was part of the agreement going back to 1998 when the SPL and SFL reached an agreement when the top teams waled away.

It was therefore planned to increase the league back to 12 in 2000/2001

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Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

I'm struggling to see a solution that appeases all.

 

The decision should not be about appeasement it should be based on sporting integrity and nothing at all else. The issue that Celtic should have the title bestowed upon them is borne out of a sense of entitlement not sporting integrity! Likewise the notion that Hearts should be relegated is based on the sense of self preservation by other teams at the foot of the table not about sporting integrity... yes Hearts are at the foot of the table BUT there are 8 games left to play FFS!  

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IveSeenTheLight
Just now, jock _turd said:

 

The decision should not be about appeasement it should be based on sporting integrity and nothing at all else. The issue that Celtic should have the title bestowed upon them is borne out of a sense of entitlement not sporting integrity! Likewise the notion that Hearts should be relegated is based on the sense of self preservation by other teams at the foot of the table not about sporting integrity... yes Hearts are at the foot of the table BUT there are 8 games left to play FFS!  

 

The Integrity issue has two sides to it though.

Is there integrity in wiping out 30 games because of a force majeure event limits the remaining 8 games.

By definition, force majeure means that a contract cannot be legally held accountable i.e. playing the full 38 games

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Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

There was no mid season reconstruction.

It was part of the agreement going back to 1998 when the SPL and SFL reached an agreement when the top teams waled away.

It was therefore planned to increase the league back to 12 in 2000/2001

You could be right I thing the sheep were saves by Falkirk bot having the right number of seats in their stadium.

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6 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


No, sorry. We absolutely do not deserve to go down. 

 

Have you watched Hearts in person over the last 3 years or so?

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3 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

One solution mooted is to expand the league to accommodate all those that "could" potentially gain promotion through the play-offs.

Is this viable?

Would going to an 18 or 20 league team season work? Infact, Partick Thistle theoretically could get to a play-off place, so could we just merge the Championship with the Premier League (22 team league)

Would there be relegation next season to split the leagues again?

Would there be enough time to play 42 league games (1 home and 1 away against all teams.

 

I'm struggling to see a solution that appeases all.

 

A 'solution' that should not even be considered, is one where a club gets demoted via board decision rather than a competitive process being seen to conclusion, that places that club's future in jeopardy. Clubs are going to be in enough bother financially with a prolonged period of inactivity, adding a further massively reduced income through demotion on top of that should not even be considered.

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22 minutes ago, RudiSkacelsLeftPeg said:

I cannot get my head around the fact so many Hearts fans think we deserve to go down and are happy enough to accept it. 
 

Absolute bizarre behaviour. 

 

Cretinous,  docile,  sheep-like creatures.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

 

Have you watched Hearts in person over the last 3 years or so?

 

Of course I have. In that time I have seen us go on an extended winning run. Your argument makes no sense whatsoever, and by even entertaining it out of some churlish huff about our current form, you are basically just accepting that we should be shafted.

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Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

The Integrity issue has two sides to it though.

Is there integrity in wiping out 30 games because of a force majeure event limits the remaining 8 games.

By definition, force majeure means that a contract cannot be legally held accountable i.e. playing the full 38 games

 

Sorry bud I don't get that at all... the league program can be completed as soon as the SPL think it is safe to do so then and only then do we start a new season. In answer to you question though of course there is. Do you think if Rangers or ha ha ha Aberdeen were at the head of the division Celtic would be asking for them to be given the title? Sporting integrity is about doing the right thing not about deciding that all the remaining games are irrelevant because you want a result. 

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IveSeenTheLight
8 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

You could be right I thing the sheep were saves by Falkirk bot having the right number of seats in their stadium.

 

Still not the full picture.

Go read up on it, I've posted enough times in this forum

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IveSeenTheLight
Just now, jock _turd said:

 

Sorry bud I don't get that at all... the league program can be completed as soon as the SPL think it is safe to do so then and only then do we start a new season. In answer to you question though of course there is. Do you think if Rangers or ha ha ha Aberdeen were at the head of the division Celtic would be asking for them to be given the title? Sporting integrity is about doing the right thing not about deciding that all the remaining games are irrelevant because you want a result. 

 

That would be my preferred option. Reconvene the league In October / November, complete the season before the year end. 

Start a new condensed season in the new year (22 games, once at home, once away))

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Robbo-Jambo

The Daily Rag thinks it's likely the SPFL will announce the season is officially over with the number of points you have at present therefore making celtic champions and relegating us. 

 

How the **** can they do that with 24 points still up for grabs. 

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1 minute ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Still not the full picture.

Go read up on it, I've posted enough times in this forum

 

You were still saved from relegation whatever the mechanism.  

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IveSeenTheLight
9 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

A 'solution' that should not even be considered, is one where a club gets demoted via board decision rather than a competitive process being seen to conclusion, that places that club's future in jeopardy. Clubs are going to be in enough bother financially with a prolonged period of inactivity, adding a further massively reduced income through demotion on top of that should not even be considered.

 

That applies for promoted teams as well (Dundee Utd, ICT, Dundee, Ayr, Dunfermline, Arbroath etc)

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IveSeenTheLight
1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

 

You were still saved from relegation whatever the mechanism.  

 

No, we were save from having to play a three way round robin play-off where two of the three teams would play in the top division.

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The easiest, most sensible and least divisive way to do this is def to crown all clubs at top of league as champs and no relegation.  Go with the idea of 2 up in each league and two promoted from non-league to fill SPFL2.

 

Even if they only have that 14-10-10-10 structure for one season and there is increased relegations in 20/21 to bring it back to status quo, we all know where we stand going in to the start of next season.

 

Anything else doesn't make sense, basically.

 

We may be in a unique situation whereby 3 of our 4 leagues are basically already decided.  Only SPFL1 has any kind of title race and even then, the top 2 are clear faves and would both go up.

 

The bottom of the prem and champ are both very tight and the Championship has games in hand all over the place, with lots of teams having played differing amounts of games.

 

I just don't think they can justifiably relegate anyone when there is such an obvious and positive solution here*.  Of course this is maroon tinted, but I think I'd think this no matter what.  I'm sure I would actually.

 

*I know!!

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The Real Maroonblood
9 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

 

Have you watched Hearts in person over the last 3 years or so?

So for just being crap we should be relegated.

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