They Can't Relegate Us (Legally)

[TheBigO]

6 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Still not the full picture.

Go read up on it, I've posted enough times in this forum

Yes you have.  Yet you continue to do so.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Just now, TheBigO said:

Yes you have.  Yet you continue to do so.

 

Because many seem ignorant of the facts

[Gambo]

32 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

One solution mooted is to expand the league to accommodate all those that "could" potentially gain promotion through the play-offs.

Is this viable?

Would going to an 18 or 20 league team season work? Infact, Partick Thistle theoretically could get to a play-off place, so could we just merge the Championship with the Premier League (22 team league)

Would there be relegation next season to split the leagues again?

Would there be enough time to play 42 league games (1 home and 1 away against all teams.

 

I'm struggling to see a solution that appeases all.

Do away with league cup for one season and there is plenty of time to do what you say for one season only.

 

Only folk to lose out would be Sky and 2 old form games.

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 minute ago, Gambo said:

Do away with league cup for one season and there is plenty of time to do what you say for one season only.

 

Only folk to lose out would be Sky and 2 old form games.

 

That all depends when the football is to restart.

I doubt you'd be able to get 42 league games into a season starting in Oct / Nov

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I would have thought that any competition that could not complete on the rules it begun with was void, since there is a lack of transparency in what results needed to be achieved and when. For example, if we knew the season was going to end 2 days after the St Mirren, our tactics and team selection may have been more akin to the adjustments made at half time from the start.

 

I'm certain that would be part of the argument, plus the very nature of Scotlands "split" is that the teams at the top and bottom have the chance to affect their position by playing those immediately around them.

 

The very soul of this league is now based upon that split and has been for umpteen years. To decree a team is down before that split has come to be, 7% of fixtures yet to be played at that point where we could actually be 5 points ahead of Hamilton (who could tell Leicester would win 9 out of their last 10 and win the league the following year) would be astonishing, considering the implications in loss of income.

 

 

For the football authorities, and many many organisations, this is now a damage limitation exercise. I am certain they will take the course of action that is going to cause them the least loss of cash, whatever that may be is a different question

[David McCaig]

29 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

One solution mooted is to expand the league to accommodate all those that "could" potentially gain promotion through the play-offs.

Is this viable?

Would going to an 18 or 20 league team season work? Infact, Partick Thistle theoretically could get to a play-off place, so could we just merge the Championship with the Premier League (22 team league)

Would there be relegation next season to split the leagues again?

Would there be enough time to play 42 league games (1 home and 1 away against all teams.

 

I'm struggling to see a solution that appeases all.

SHOCK HORROR 42 GAMES!!!

 

You mean pretty much as the EPL is likely to be next season?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

9 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

No, we were save from having to play a three way round robin play-off where two of the three teams would play in the top division.

You finished bottom of the league twice, just accept it and jog on

[TheBigO]

4 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Because many seem ignorant of the facts

Or don't care enough about them.

 

You seem pretty ignorant of the fact that you're on another team's fans forum.  Other's from other teams manage to come on here and not act like arrogant wallopers.

 

Ignorance is perhaps bliss, flossy.  Nash on.

[Gambo]

10 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

That all depends when the football is to restart.

I doubt you'd be able to get 42 league games into a season starting in Oct / Nov

No winter break, no Scottish cup or international friendlies.

 

Clubs will not last until October.

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

You finished bottom of the league twice, just accept it and jog on

 

I accept we finished bottom in 2000 in the 10 team league, never argued against.

I just clarified that bottom spot was not automatic relegation that year.

 

You also pointed out we were bottom in 1917 during the first world war.

 

 

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

Or don't care enough about them.

 

You seem pretty ignorant of the fact that you're on another team's fans forum.  Other's from other teams manage to come on here and not act like arrogant wallopers.

 

Ignorance is perhaps bliss, flossy.  Nash on.

 

Take it as a compliment.

I go to many forums and this one often provides a healthy discussion / debate better than all the others I've visited.

 

I don;t believe I act like a walloper, just an open discussion.

Maybe a differing viewpoint from yours, but that's life.

I've never hidden the fact I support a different team and am very open about it. At list its transparent behind my postings as opposed to the many claims of apparent supporters who are not Hearts supporters.

[IveSeenTheLight]

2 minutes ago, Gambo said:

No winter break, no Scottish cup or international friendlies.

 

Clubs will not last until October.

 

The suggestion is at least a 4 month break from  mass gatherings. That's July.

Some experts are predicting the peak to be circa June. (3 months time)

October is just a reasonable estimation to allow a period post peak before football resumes, but it could be earlier.

[Robbo-Jambo]

14 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

The Daily Rag thinks it's likely the SPFL will announce the season is officially over with the number of points you have at present therefore making celtic champions and relegating us. 

 

How the **** can they do that with 24 points still up for grabs. 

Reading further into the newspaper article it says the above scenario ie.abandoning season with your current points is the only way clubs can have valid claims on their insurance claims for emergency money. 

 

Have to say this is not looking good for us at all. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I accept we finished bottom in 2000 in the 10 team league, never argued against.

I just clarified that bottom spot was not automatic relegation that year.

 

You also pointed out we were bottom in 1917 during the first world war.

 

 

 

Take it as a compliment.

I go to many forums and this one often provides a healthy discussion / debate better than all the others I've visited.

 

I don;t believe I act like a walloper, just an open discussion.

Maybe a differing viewpoint from yours, but that's life.

I've never hidden the fact I support a different team and am very open about it. At list its transparent behind my postings as opposed to the many claims of apparent supporters who are not Hearts supporters.

Bottom, relegated, what does it matter. You survived on a set of circumstances. Pretending it would have been other wise different and it makes the "achievement" somehow better is behaving like a walloper.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Just now, Sir Gio said:

Bottom, relegated, what does it matter. You survived on a set of circumstances. Pretending it would have been other wise different and it makes the "achievement" somehow better is behaving like a walloper.

 

The process was in place before the season started (not mid season as some falsely claim)

Sure, we may have been relegated had we lost the three way round robin.

Our inclusion in the 2000/2001 top tier was the same as Dunfermline's who finished 2nd in the old Division one. Were they "saved"?

[BerraBelieveit]

54 minutes ago, RudiSkacelsLeftPeg said:

I cannot get my head around the fact so many Hearts fans think we deserve to go down and are happy enough to accept it. 
 

Absolute bizarre behaviour. 

 

Agree completely but it also reflects the amount of Hearts fans who think we are down despite 8 games to play and only being 4/6 points behind 3 woeful teams; just because they have experience of fighting relegation.

 

I just find a large percentage of our supports attitude and resignation baffling. At no point since my first game in 1997 have I ever gone into a game versus St Mirren, Ross County & Hamilton and thought anything other than a Hearts win. I would be stunned if we couldn't catch at least one of they clubs with the fixtures remaining.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

The process was in place before the season started (not mid season as some falsely claim)

Sure, we may have been relegated had we lost the three way round robin.

Our inclusion in the 2000/2001 top tier was the same as Dunfermline's who finished 2nd in the old Division one. Were they "saved"?

Who cares. You were last and were absolutely saved by the mere point there was no relegation in the 2 seasons you were last. Vast majority of seasons that results in relegation, yes or no? You wanted to finish last is that what you are saying? All part of the plan

[Jamboelite]

The issue of players contracts if we were to try and finish this season in the summer is still a question i havent seen a reasonable solution to.

 

 

And if the requirement for insurance to pay out means the need to have a finished season that doesnt have to mean relegation.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Jamboelite

[IveSeenTheLight]

5 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Who cares. You were last and were absolutely saved by the mere point there was no relegation in the 2 seasons you were last. Vast majority of seasons that results in relegation, yes or no? You wanted to finish last is that what you are saying? All part of the plan

 

Cuckoo post Sir Gio

[stan]

1 hour ago, Byyy The Light said:

The SFA will wait until the English FA make a decision...and then copy it. 

That's probably our best chance of getting a reasonable outcome. Quite a few of their bottom clubs are at risk of relegation if the season restarts there.

[IveSeenTheLight]

3 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

The issue of players contracts if we were to try and finish this season in the summer is still a question i havent seen a reasonable solution to.

 

 

And if the requirement for insurance to pay out means the need to have a finished season that doesnt have to mean relegation.

 

This is probably one of the pivotal reasons why they will end the seasons as is, because solutions to reconvene the league does not look likely within the plan to handle the outbreak of the virus.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Cuckoo post Sir Gio

Only person cuckoo here is you, as mentioned previously by another poster,walloper.

 

You meant to finish last then, ok, right, you fancied the round robin play offs, you wanted to get as little points as possible and "entertain" the fans that were left, by finishing bottom.

 

 

 

Answer the question, did you finish last twice? When the rule changes occurred are immaterial, you were the worst side on results, ordinarily that results in relegation, or is your version of sane, this was the plan?

 

 

[Last Laff]

On 14/03/2020 at 20:05, kimosavi said:

No.danger anne would take relegation lying down 

 

No doubt she'd put out a statement asking fans to pay for legal fees

I’m not sure she would consider it the morally correct thing to do at this time.  Hopefully the FoH board will make that decision though.

[Hairdryer]

Finish this season hopefully by late summer then restart the next season 

by October and only play each other twice cancel the league cup and finish the scottish cup

in December 

[Last Laff]

10 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Cuckoo post Sir Gio

Aberdeen finished bottom - saved as there was no direct relegation that season, only a playoff against two better sides than them from the league below. 

 

Falkirk couldn’t gain promotion that season, same Falkirk who were absolutely flying that season so , again, Aberdeen got saved from even facing them. 

[Beast Boy]

48 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

That applies for promoted teams as well (Dundee Utd, ICT, Dundee, Ayr, Dunfermline, Arbroath etc)

 

The divisions should be restructured to ensure these teams are not adversely financially affected. No relegations, but promotions where appropriate.

[cheetah]

1 hour ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Still not the full picture.

Go read up on it, I've posted enough times in this forum

 

 

Some would say way too many times.

[IveSeenTheLight]

9 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Only person cuckoo here is you, as mentioned previously by another poster,walloper.

 

You meant to finish last then, ok, right, you fancied the round robin play offs, you wanted to get as little points as possible and "entertain" the fans that were left, by finishing bottom.

 

 

 

Answer the question, did you finish last twice? When the rule changes occurred are immaterial, you were the worst side on results, ordinarily that results in relegation, or is your version of sane, this was the plan?

 

 

 

Debatable who the walloper is.

Nevermind.

 

I've already answered your question, many times.

Yes we finished bottom in 2000, the worst in the league and whilst ordinarily that would have resulted in relegation, it was not the plan for that season 

 

2017, during the first world war. Bit before my time, but yes, it seems we finished bottom that season and therefore the worst team in the league

 

If you wan't me to be a walloper, I could spout crap about the fact is we've never been relegated 

 

[stan]

44 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

The process was in place before the season started (not mid season as some falsely claim)

Sure, we may have been relegated had we lost the three way round robin.

Our inclusion in the 2000/2001 top tier was the same as Dunfermline's who finished 2nd in the old Division one. Were they "saved"?

You required Falkirk to stop competing for the play offs to happen. You were saved from that prospect  by their inability to a) throw games, and b) arrange a new stadium. 

 

Your top flight survival was guaranteed whatever Aberdeen did that season. In fact the Dons team bus could have crashed into the Forth while crossing the bridge and you'd still have been safe! That's why people will always bring it up. 

 

Hearts getting a reprieve while still in our hands if league had  continued pre and post split is as directly comparable as 2 similar events could be. We would have to accept the jibes from others just as you currently do here. 👍

Edited March 16, 2020 by stan
Added further jibe

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

The Integrity issue has two sides to it though.

Is there integrity in wiping out 30 games because of a force majeure event limits the remaining 8 games.

By definition, force majeure means that a contract cannot be legally held accountable i.e. playing the full 38 games

 

Aye but let us turn things about... Aberdeen are , no sniggering at the back now, four points behind Celtic at the top of the table with eight games to play and the league is suspended . Celtic ask for the title because the are at the top of the table... how do you like them apples?

[Anderson5]

Just now, jock _turd said:

 

Aye but let us turn things about... Aberdeen are , no sniggering at the back now, four points behind Celtic at the top of the table with eight games to play and the league is suspended . Celtic ask for the title because the are at the top of the table... how do you like them apples?

To be fair, Aberdeen are a point behind Motherwell in the race to qualify for the Europa League. In fact I think they were due to play each other just a few hours after the league was suspended. So our mutton fetishising friend probably is going to lose out if they decide to call the league as it stands. 
 

Whatever decision is made, some teams will benefit and other teams will have reason to feel aggrieved. Such is life. 

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, Anderson5 said:

To be fair, Aberdeen are a point behind Motherwell in the race to qualify for the Europa League. In fact I think they were due to play each other just a few hours after the league was suspended. So our mutton fetishising friend probably is going to lose out if they decide to call the league as it stands. 
 

Whatever decision is made, some teams will benefit and other teams will have reason to feel aggrieved. Such is life. 

Both teams will be in the Europa League. 

[jock _turd]

Just now, Anderson5 said:

To be fair, Aberdeen are a point behind Motherwell in the race to qualify for the Europa League. In fact I think they were due to play each other just a few hours after the league was suspended. So our mutton fetishising friend probably is going to lose out if they decide to call the league as it stands. 
 

Whatever decision is made, some teams will benefit and other teams will have reason to feel aggrieved. Such is life. 

 

That is not what I am referring to though. Being a point off a euro spot is nothing as compared to the possibility of a league championship. Like it or loath it all this talk of sporting integrity only applies if you are at the top end of the table... Fact.

[stevie1874]

5 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

If we do end up relegated then given the apathy with fans due to the utter disgraceful performances I would imagine ST sales will be brutal.

Throw in those who would be done with the game due to a farcical decision to relegate us with a fifth of the season to still be played and the club would really struggle.

they can take their Cup semi and stick it up their rectums if they throw us down

 

Regarding the semi, I’m with you on that one. If they relegate us without games played and then tell us to play semi final at later date,  due to the date ( September has been mentioned) we surely would be under no obligation to play it. Tell them to ram it 

[Last Laff]

Just now, jock _turd said:

 

That is not what I am referring to though. Being a point off a euro spot is nothing as compared to the possibility of a league championship. Like it or loath it all this talk of sporting integrity only applies if you are at the top end of the table... Fact.

Or if we find ourself bottom of the table.  If this was the sheep bottom we would probably have the same relaxed attitude of the sheep shagger.  How he gets away getting bites day after day though is another issue.  He’s obviously revelling in this. 

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Regarding the semi, I’m with you on that one. If they relegate us without games played and then tell us to play semi final at later date,  due to the date ( September has been mentioned) we surely would be under no obligation to play it. Tell them to ram it 

And where do we make up the shortfall from missing out on the gate receipts of the Semi/Final and the probable five year exclusion from further competition?  Bearing in mind relegation will have taken place for us to tell them to ram it? 

[stevie1874]

3 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

And where do we make up the shortfall from missing out on the gate receipts of the Semi/Final and the probable five year exclusion from further competition?  Bearing in mind relegation will have taken place for us to tell them to ram it? 

Why would we be excluded for 5 years? Also what kind of team do we put out bearing in mind most of our players can walk away, and the calibre of players we could attract being a championship team. 

[1971fozzy]

6 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

And where do we make up the shortfall from missing out on the gate receipts of the Semi/Final and the probable five year exclusion from further competition?  Bearing in mind relegation will have taken place for us to tell them to ram it? 

Maybe a supporter boycott then ?

[1971fozzy]

1 minute ago, stevie1874 said:

Why would we be excluded for 5 years? Also what kind of team do we put out bearing in mind most of our players can walk away, and the calibre of players we could attract being a championship team. 

bang on the money. This

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Maybe a supporter boycott then ?

Club and team would lose support.  I do agree with something to ram it up them but totally unsure as to what without effecting the club. 

[1971fozzy]

11 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Or if we find ourself bottom of the table.  If this was the sheep bottom we would probably have the same relaxed attitude of the sheep shagger.  How he gets away getting bites day after day though is another issue.  He’s obviously revelling in this. 

why the mods haven’t launched him I don’t understand.  Revelling on an other clubs fans forum and yet he is still posting. 
This is an emotive issue and he should be nowhere near it as all he’s doing is fishing

[Last Laff]

5 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Why would we be excluded for 5 years? Also what kind of team do we put out bearing in mind most of our players can walk away, and the calibre of players we could attract being a championship team. 

If we tell the SFA to ram the Semi finals because the SPFL sent us down you think they will go “that’s fine, we understand your problem, we will someone sort this, see you next season”  

 

edit: in fact it wouldn’t surprise me if this would delight them, they would just reinstate the huns in our place.  

Edited March 16, 2020 by Last Laff

[Last Laff]

Just now, 1971fozzy said:

why the mods haven’t launched him I don’t understand.  Revelling on an other clubs fans forum and yet he is still posting. 
This is an emotive issue and he should be nowhere near it as all he’s doing is fishing

Yip. 

[1971fozzy]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

Club and team would lose support.  I do agree with something to ram it up them but totally unsure as to what without effecting the club. 

I’d rather donate my semi ticket money directly to our club

[Beast Boy]

Just now, 1971fozzy said:

why the mods haven’t launched him I don’t understand.  Revelling on an other clubs fans forum and yet he is still posting. 
This is an emotive issue and he should be nowhere near it as all he’s doing is fishing

God only knows... Good for clicks? 

[Bongo 1874]

1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:

I’d rather donate my semi ticket money directly to our club

Spot on 👍. 

 

[IveSeenTheLight]

12 minutes ago, stan said:

You required Falkirk to stop competing for the play offs to happen. You were saved from that prospect  by their inability to a) throw games, and b) arrange a new stadium. 

 

Your top flight survival was guaranteed whatever Aberdeen did that season. In fact the Dons team bus could have crashed into the Forth while crossing the bridge and you'd still have been safe! That's why people will always bring it up. 

 

Hearts getting a reprieve while still in our hands if league had  continued pre and post split is as directly comparable as 2 similar events could be. We would have to accept the jibes from others just as you currently do here. 👍

 

Accepted, as did Dunfermline.

[Last Laff]

4 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

I’d rather donate my semi ticket money directly to our club

Good shout. 

[jock _turd]

Thing is that if you cast your eyes on the EPL ... how do you think that is going to be resolved  top and bottom? Surely we must parallel their situation ?

[IveSeenTheLight]

28 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Aye but let us turn things about... Aberdeen are , no sniggering at the back now, four points behind Celtic at the top of the table with eight games to play and the league is suspended . Celtic ask for the title because the are at the top of the table... how do you like them apples?

 

I've advocated that the league should be completed when the opportunity arises.

It brings challenges no doubt, but that would be my optimal choice.

 

It seems for other reasons (insurances), the force majeure is requiring the season to be closed and not null and voided.

Unfortunately with Force Majeure, you have to accept that circumstances outwith everyone's control or ability to plan for means that contracts cannot be legally held to account for.

[jock _turd]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I've advocated that the league should be completed when the opportunity arises.

It brings challenges no doubt, but that would be my optimal choice.

 

It seems for other reasons (insurances), the force majeure is requiring the season to be closed and not null and voided.

Unfortunately with Force Majeure, you have to accept that circumstances outwith everyone's control or ability to plan for means that contracts cannot be legally held to account for.

See above!