They Can't Relegate Us (Legally)

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

Exactly why , as AB stated , it should be all clubs involved in any decisions

agree, this affects all clubs so should be a vote for all clubs

[OTT]

2 hours ago, Longshanks said:

The fact we've had Hearts and Rangers coming out saying stuff now is making me fear the worst. 

 

I know its total self interest from the huns but having one of the gruesome twosome in our corner when there is likely to be an injustice is good.

 

This talk of restarting the league at a later date is a total nonsense. Current situations will have changed massively - what if Sibbick and Haring are completely fine by the time the league restarts? hows that fair on Accies and St Mirren. Likewise, relegating us isn't fair because we still had a fighting chance of staying up. Loan deals and contracts may be expiring and ultimately the players still need to agree to sign the extensions (the one/two month idea being floated). Its perfectly possible that these players could have moves to other clubs sorted and don't want to risk injury by agreeing any extension. That disadvantages them and could mean in theory we could sign our way out of relegation in the summer before the league was to restart or St Mirren and Accies lose key players. 

 

There are too many disks to spin. Call the season off and divide current prize money either on current placing of financial necessity. 

 

Restart next season with 14 or 16 teams and go from there. As Budge said in her interview on Sky sports there is no better time to discuss in detail league reconstruction and put the collective brain power of the Chairmen to create a better constructed league which actually offers fans of non-OF teams something to engage with. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

7 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I know its total self interest from the huns but having one of the gruesome twosome in our corner when there is likely to be an injustice is good.

 

This talk of restarting the league at a later date is a total nonsense. Current situations will have changed massively - what if Sibbick and Haring are completely fine by the time the league restarts? hows that fair on Accies and St Mirren. Likewise, relegating us isn't fair because we still had a fighting chance of staying up. Loan deals and contracts may be expiring and ultimately the players still need to agree to sign the extensions (the one/two month idea being floated). Its perfectly possible that these players could have moves to other clubs sorted and don't want to risk injury by agreeing any extension. That disadvantages them and could mean in theory we could sign our way out of relegation in the summer before the league was to restart or St Mirren and Accies lose key players. 

 

There are too many disks to spin. Call the season off and divide current prize money either on current placing of financial necessity. 

 

Restart next season with 14 or 16 teams and go from there. As Budge said in her interview on Sky sports there is no better time to discuss in detail league reconstruction and put the collective brain power of the Chairmen to create a better constructed league which actually offers fans of non-OF teams something to engage with. 

To be honest, I think we should maintain silence, keep our business out of the media, it looks exactly what it is, desperate. Meanwhile get our ducks in a row, for what we think may come. Plenty other teams in our boat that can speak on the situation

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

To be honest, I think we should maintain silence, keep our business out of the media, it looks exactly what it is, desperate. Meanwhile get our ducks in a row, for what we think may come. Plenty other teams in our boat that can speak on the situation

Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't...

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

To be honest, I think we should maintain silence, keep our business out of the media, it looks exactly what it is, desperate. Meanwhile get our ducks in a row, for what we think may come. Plenty other teams in our boat that can speak on the situation

You can guarantee fans would be fall over themselves on here demanding she speaks out. 🙄

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't...

 

To be honest, I'm grateful for the transparency. 

 

One thing the SFA/ SPFL do time and time again is muddy the waters and make things as difficult to see what is actually happening as possible. I think Budge should keep this in the media and ensure that everything plays out publicly to ensure transparency and accountability - i.e if they try and relegate us, who and why? 

 

Happy with Budges approach so far. Appreciate others prefer dignified silence but honestly, what about the SFA is dignified? We need to fight our corner and not allow them an inch. 

[ramrod]

The salient point here is , had we beaten St Mirren last week would they relegate, them all be it on goal difference. 

That would have seemed extremely harsh and would have be fought all the way by St Mirren . Our situation is no different, we still have a massive chance to avoid relegation which we would be denied . 

[GorgieRules22]

You would like to think that with everybody concerned about their health etc the Spfl won’t add to the misery by relegating a club and possibly putting people out of jobs aswell.

[Spellczech]

8 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

To be honest, I'm grateful for the transparency. 

 

One thing the SFA/ SPFL do time and time again is muddy the waters and make things as difficult to see what is actually happening as possible. I think Budge should keep this in the media and ensure that everything plays out publicly to ensure transparency and accountability - i.e if they try and relegate us, who and why? 

 

Happy with Budges approach so far. Appreciate others prefer dignified silence but honestly, what about the SFA is dignified? We need to fight our corner and not allow them an inch. 

Indeed. Dignified silence? she's not running a funeral director business FFS...She's running a football club which absolutely needs PR.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Spellczech

[Rogue Daddy]

5 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

To be honest, I think we should maintain silence, keep our business out of the media, it looks exactly what it is, desperate. Meanwhile get our ducks in a row, for what we think may come. Plenty other teams in our boat that can speak on the situation

I think it's important we come out kicking and screaming to let the SFA and SPL know we clearly object to any decision that relegates us,and toa lso to let teams in the divisions below know this. The more backing we get from these teams, the more likely the SPA/SPL will listen (hopefully). 

The further down the leagues you look, the more 'unfair' calling the season 'as is',obviously is. 

If 'sporting integrity' is the sfa/spls ultimate goal... we simply cannot accept stopping the season as it is and give out championships/promotions or relegation's as things stand.

[Shanks]

If there is a 75% rule and that's what we have signed up to then we would be ****ed. 

 

Budge and rangers wouldn't be daft enough to be releasing statements if that rule exists surely. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Longshanks

[Rogue Daddy]

18 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

To be honest, I'm grateful for the transparency. 

 

One thing the SFA/ SPFL do time and time again is muddy the waters and make things as difficult to see what is actually happening as possible. I think Budge should keep this in the media and ensure that everything plays out publicly to ensure transparency and accountability - i.e if they try and relegate us, who and why? 

 

Happy with Budges approach so far. Appreciate others prefer dignified silence but honestly, what about the SFA is dignified? We need to fight our corner and not allow them an inch. 

Absolutely... the more noise the better IMO. It also shows everyone else that we're standing up to the SFA/SPL... and hopefully this will give the teams below us in a similar predicament, a bit of confidence to follow suit.

 

[IveSeenTheLight]

I just read that the Court of Arbitration for Sport have put on hold all existing cases for review, including the Man City FFP case.

Stands to reason any new cases will take some time before being looked at

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

17 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

If there is a 75% rule and that's what we have signed up to then we would be ****ed. 

 

Budge and rangers wouldn't be daft enough to be releasing statements if that rule exists surely. 

Except no one can find any proof this 75% rule exists.

 

Wonder what the blowhard Septic fans over at the Scottish Football Monitor make of all these shenanigans?

[The Treasurer]

4 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

I just read that the Court of Arbitration for Sport have put on hold all existing cases for review, including the Man City FFP case.

Stands to reason any new cases will take some time before being looked at

Which would then delay any start to next season even further should any club decide to take their case to CAS

[NaturalOrder74]

Relegating hearts will just do more damage to the league one less decent away support for the teams that need it this upcoming year 

[JimmyCant]

10 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Relegating hearts will just do more damage to the league one less decent away support for the teams that need it this upcoming year 

Yes but they're not going to allow us to stay up on the grounds that we carry a support are they ?  We'll either be the victims or the beneficiaries of an applied decision which wouldnt take any account of who we are and what we bring, just where we stand in the league.

Edited March 17, 2020 by JimmyCant

[Masonic]

Until mathematically confirmed there can be no relegation. Any attempt to do so using guesswork would be blocked by the courts IMO. 

[ericb]

16 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Relegating hearts will just do more damage to the league one less decent away support for the teams that need it this upcoming year 

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

[GorgieRules22]

1 minute ago, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

Yeah she should have said we’ll just bend over and take our medicine 👀

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

 

That's an open invitation to relegate - stuff that.

 

I get there are more important things happening right now but people are still trying to carry out the jobs for which they are paid for and responsible for, no matter how insignificant they seem right now. Budge is supposed to protect our interests and there are huge financial implications if we go down.

[No longer active]

19 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Relegating hearts will just do more damage to the league one less decent away support for the teams that need it this upcoming year 

 

So true. Expanding the league makes financial sense. More matches = more money for hard up clubs. The Uglies might not like that though!

 

 I would also be inclined to cancelling this season, expanding the league and spread all the prize money evenly between all 42 members of the league for this 1 season. If the Uglies don't like that then they can lump it; we are all making sacrifices over this virus.

[Stendelsarmy]

6 minutes ago, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

 

Get a grip. It's obvious she's made the statement because she's in the know about what's in planning.

 

Yes, football isn't the most important thing in the world, but why accept automatic relegation? Why should Hearts volunteer to accept relegation. Why should the other clubs not volunteer to accept a null and void season?

Edited March 17, 2020 by Stendelsarmy

[Rogue Daddy]

5 minutes ago, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

Callous?... if you want callous I'll refer you to Neil Lennons presser a couple of days ago.

 

Accept a decision that sees us relegated before our season is complete? Really? Are youon the wind up?

[JJ93]

To interject and provide strong opinion - as someone who works in international litigation and disputes on some of the biggest cases in the world - there is no chance they can legally relegate us if they end the season just now.

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

You know how the powers in Glasgow work?
Callous would be to mild a word to use.

[TheBigO]

3 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

To interject and provide strong opinion - as someone who works in international litigation and disputes on some of the biggest cases in the world - there is no chance they can legally relegate us if they end the season just now.

Superb, thanks.

 

Is Johnnie Cochrane related to Harry?  Is that how you're a Jambo?  Also, aren't you dead?

[Harry Potter]

34 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Relegating hearts will just do more damage to the league one less decent away support for the teams that need it this upcoming year 

Correct bud, anyway 24 points to play for, 

[JJ93]

3 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Superb, thanks.

 

Is Johnnie Cochrane related to Harry?  Is that how you're a Jambo?  Also, aren't you dead?

You've lost me?

[JimmyCant]

5 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Superb, thanks.

 

Is Johnnie Cochrane related to Harry?  Is that how you're a Jambo?  Also, aren't you dead?

if its not 38, you must not relegate !!

[Beast Boy]

44 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Which would then delay any start to next season even further should any club decide to take their case to CAS

Good-oh. Get it done. 

[Jamboelite]

I think we are all thinking logically re games left etc...but the trouble is thats not how our governing body works or thinks.

 

Ann clearly made the statement as the current view is to award Celtic and relegate us that is clear, and why Rangers followed with their statement.

 

Now each side will have been discussing with lawyers and it appears as all good lawyers do they have different opinions on our rulebook, so off to CAS we go.

 

Alternatively, is highlighting what happens next from us enough to threaten them to reconsider ? who knows but i suspect as it stands relegation is the likely outcome and preferred view of those at the trough.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Jamboelite

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

I think we are all thinking logically the trouble is thats not how our governing body works.

 

Ann clearly made the statement as the current view is to award Celtic and relegate us that is clear and why Rangers followed with their statement.

 

Will highlighting what happens next be enough to threaten them to reconsider who knows but i suspect as it stands relegation is the likely outcome and preferred view of those at the trough.

Our governing body, no matter how much pressure comes from what source, has to act legally, fairly and within its rules, if it doesnt and we are disadvantaged because of a unjustified and punitive (to us)stray from the rules then we'll be going to court.

 

If the rules permit it in circumstances like this and they relegate us, we'll have to accept it after confirming the legal standpoint, and the likliehood of a successful challenge, independently ourselves.

 

Their preferred course might be to stop the league and award prizes and consequences for current positions. I suspect it probably is the preferred option. All Ms Budge is highlighting is that if you do that, you better make sure the ground you are standing on is rock solid, because we'll be checking.

Edited March 17, 2020 by JimmyCant

[Last Laff]

15 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

Ok let’s just bend over take what’s coming our way and do as we’re told.  Get a grip

Get a grip?  I’m not the one pretending that the club would pull out competitions and the support would boycott grounds based on this.  Laughable as ****. 

[Last Laff]

33 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

That's an open invitation to relegate - stuff that.

 

I get there are more important things happening right now but people are still trying to carry out the jobs for which they are paid for and responsible for, no matter how insignificant they seem right now. Budge is supposed to protect our interests and there are huge financial implications if we go down.

I thought the interview was more of a call to arms for the whole support to back the club and the club will fight the supports corner.  Yes, it was very badly timed imo but was done for the greater good of the club. 

[johnthomas]

36 minutes ago, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

She was being interviewed about a football matter . 

The current situation doesn't mean you can't have a view on music , art ,  football even Hibs !

Feck this . I'm going to make an unnecessary journey to the pub and get inappropriately close to the barmaid

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

1 hour ago, GorgieRules22 said:

You would like to think that with everybody concerned about their health etc the Spfl won’t add to the misery by relegating a club and possibly putting people out of jobs aswell.

 

Some might think that would not apply to Hearts  "Oh, they've got the FOH and plenty of money".

[The Treasurer]

12 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Our governing body, no matter how much pressure comes from what source, has to act legally, fairly and within its rules, if it doesnt and we are disadvantaged because of a unjustified and punitive (to us)stray from the rules then we'll be going to court.

 

If the rules permit it in circumstances like this and they relegate us, we'll have to accept it after confirming the legal standpoint, and the likliehood of a successful challenge, independently ourselves.

 

Their preferred course might be to stop the league and award prizes and consequences for current positions. I suspect it probably is the preferred option. All Ms Budge is highlighting is that if you do that, you better make sure the ground you are standing on is rock solid, because we'll be checking.

Not sure Partick Thistle would accept this as the "preferred option" given that they are 2 points adrift with a game in hand.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

She was being interviewed about a football matter . 

The current situation doesn't mean you can't have a view on music , art ,  football even Hibs !

Feck this . I'm going to make an unnecessary journey to the pub and get inappropriately close to the barmaid

Is the barmaid quite tidy?

[JimmyCant]

15 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Not sure Partick Thistle would accept this as the "preferred option" given that they are 2 points adrift with a game in hand.

 

Its the SPFL's preferred option. No doubt its not ours or Particks.(amongst many others who arent called Celtic)

 

It would preferred by Celtic, Motherwell, and everyone below Kilmarnock except Hearts.

It wont suit Rangers because mathemantically they can still win the league and well, because they are Rangers

It wont suit Aberdeen, Livingston and Hibs because they could all still catch Motherwell for 3rd

It wont suit St Johnstone or Kilmarnock because they can both still finish top 6 with an outside mathematical chance of Europe

It wont suit Hearts.

 

You can run down the leagues and you'll find more teams it doesnt suit than teams it does suit.

Edited March 17, 2020 by JimmyCant

[RENE]

do we still have the 10-2 vote.   If so would this not suit Hearts, with Rangers against shutting down.

 

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, RENE said:

do we still have the 10-2 vote.   If so would this not suit Hearts, with Rangers against shutting down.

 

We do, but this appears to be a SPFL board decision to make, not a club vote

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

She was standing up for the Heart of Midlothian Football Club. 

Which many on here have accused Ann Budge of not doing previously.

Good on her.

[Hearts1975]

1 hour ago, ericb said:

I get she needs to stand up for us, but the interview she has done does look a bit callous in the current world state of affairs.

 

I'd actually like her to state that we will accept any decision that is made, as football is not the most important thing at the moment.

Eh! 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't...

Got an awful lot more to do than simply football. There is a humanitarian crisis, she has Save the Children on the front of our shirts, football could have been sidestepped neatly, she is a bright woman

[alwaysthereinspirit]

36 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Its the SPFL's preferred option. No doubt its not ours or Particks.(amongst many others who arent called Celtic)

 

It would preferred by Celtic, Motherwell, and everyone below Kilmarnock except Hearts.

It wont suit Rangers because mathemantically they can still win the league and well, because they are Rangers

It wont suit Aberdeen, Livingston and Hibs because they could all still catch Motherwell for 3rd

It wont suit St Johnstone or Kilmarnock because they can both still finish top 6 with an outside mathematical chance of Europe

It wont suit Hearts.

 

You can run down the leagues and you'll find more teams it doesnt suit than teams it does suit.

#ibs would rather see us relegated, Celtic handed the league than have themselves fight for a European spot. That's just how they are. It's in their DNA. 

 

[John Findlay]

Hypothetical situation.

Say it was either Celtic/Sevco currently 4pts adrift at the bottom of the league with 8 games to play and Hearts 13pts ahead at the top of the league. Who thinks Neil Lennon would be advocating give Hearts the league flag and Celtic should rightly be relegated. Same goes for Steven Gerrard at Ibrox.

[robbo1874]

This board needs a deep clean

[JimmyCant]

8 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

She was standing up for the Heart of Midlothian Football Club. 

Which many on here have accused Ann Budge of not doing previously.

Good on her.

Having seen and read what she said, it didnt come across that well John. I'm not a fan of clubs jumping and stamping feet in public BEFORE anything has been decided. I'm sure she could have made her feelings known to the SPFL board and said nothing publicly.

We've slated Lennon for doing the exact same thing (but opposite view obviously)

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

#ibs would rather see us relegated, Celtic handed the league than have themselves fight for a European spot. That's just how they are. It's in their DNA. 

 

Some of their fans might I'll grant you, but Hibs themselves will want to play on and get try and get into Europe. And deep down, from a business point of view, they wont want us to go down either