Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

Sweden removed from the safe travel corridor as cases continue to rise. 

Buuuuuuuuuttttttt Swwwwwweeeeeeddddddeeeennnn!!!!!! 

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Buuuuuuuuuttttttt Swwwwwweeeeeeddddddeeeennnn!!!!!! 

 

[redjambo]

Internationally, the 5th of November can be remembered as a day when the daily Covid case and deaths totals both reached new record highs:

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

How do they charge you if you need hospital treatment in the US? You pay by card and claim it back on travel insurance.  The incompetence in hospitals comes from an inept and bureaucratic management tier, wasteful procurement practices etc etc . It needs a root and branch review and politicians from all sides, with the cojones to put their differences aside and have a grown up conversation about it's future. Throwing endless amounts of money down a black hole, is not the answer.

 

And that's the sad truth. The missus works in the NHS (not a nurse or doctor) and sees the vast waste of money every day. The over reliance on lazy and basically useless mid-tier management, of whom there are way too many who hold meeting upon meeting that never produces anything. The list could go on and on tbh. But, this years biggest waste (in Scotland anyway) has to be the creation of Public Health Scotland which has cost millions but for what reason. Not new staff but hived of from various departments in NHS Scotland.  Apparently it's the "brainchild" of the SNP and COSLA. 

[graygo]

3 hours ago, redjambo said:

Internationally, the 5th of November can be remembered as a day when the daily Covid case and deaths totals both reached new record highs:

 

 

Unless they're higher today, then nobody will remember the figures on the 5th November. 😉

[Malinga the Swinga]

On 27/10/2020 at 16:54, Malinga the Swinga said:

Never thought I would see it happen in Scotland but she is slowly morphing into our version of Donald Trump. Has a cult following that laps up her every word and won't accept any criticism. Needs to appear on tv every day to sprout her bullshit, while refusing to provide any evidence or justification of what she is doing.  Surrounds herself with sycophants and allows no dissent in party. Has a relative working alongside to ensure more money comes into them, while ignoring poverty her decisions are causing to people. She really has lost the plot and now considers herself a personality that we should be grateful for.

 

FFS, she is supposed to be working for us, and accountable to us. Not the other way round.

Stayed up last night to watch Donald Trump speaking about election. 

I don't like SNP, I don't like NS, but in interest of fairness, I would like to offer retraction of my statement comparing her to Trump. She is many things, but she isn't a Trump. 

[kila]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Stayed up last night to watch Donald Trump speaking about election. 

I don't like SNP, I don't like NS, but in interest of fairness, I would like to offer retraction of my statement comparing her to Trump. She is many things, but she isn't a Trump. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

Like a few others I don’t expect to see a drop in Edinburgh and Lothians (West apart) dropping a tier. 
 

Don’t think it’s right but I do think the central belt will be treated as a single area, when rates are so high in parts of it. The message from the fish has been one of caution  and a national lockdown still has been ruled out yet. 
 

Don’t see a loosing, particulary as furlough cash is available. 
 

I expect we are pretty much in this state till shortly before Chrimbo. Though it might change is she sticks bans on travelling cross council into law; which I don’t agree with. 
 

Taking a step back, even during a pandemic, we have lost a ridiculous amount of civil liberties. To a degree I can understand it but am far from comfortable with it. 

 

 

This.

 

It's gone very far off track from being driven by public health necessity. 

Arbitrary decisions on what should be open or closed based on political whim and not the scientific evidence available. 

These impositions will run right through to next year and we'll have achieved nothing from them other than the destruction of businesses and set the country on the path to a mental and physical health timebomb. 

 

[CavySlaveJambo]

10 hours ago, King prawn said:

Interestingly a friend of mine has now tested negative twice despite living with his girlfriend who has tested positive and has symptoms including a fever and cough. Not sure how he’s managed that after nearly a week... 

Most cases are not responsible for onward transmission.  

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Many people have lost their right to go to work, with no long term strategy other than 'they can retrain'.

We have all lost our right to gather in public, and to decide who can enter our homes. 

 

Both of the above based on consistently inaccurate and misleading modelling from inaccurate and misleading politicians and public officials.

 

All the tier system has done is create a further level of divide and conquer.

 

The tier system has stopped the upward curve in cases and hospitalisations, stop talking utter pish.

 

 

[Weakened Offender]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The tier system has stopped the upward curve in cases and hospitalisations, stop talking utter pish.

 

 

 

That's a big ask. 

[husref musemic]

an excellent article mentioning the job / businesses lost & the tier system Vs the rate of infection in Edinburgh.

Makes for sad & worrying reading. 

 

Covid will be low on the list of concerns for allot of people soon.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-scotland-edinburgh-hotels-closing-their-doors-for-good-v75qxzcnw

 

[GinRummy]

49 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The tier system has stopped the upward curve in cases and hospitalisations, stop talking utter pish.

 

 

Which is great. How do you balance this against people not being treated for things like endometriosis, rheumatic pain and many other conditions or weigh it up against the amount of people plunged into poverty as a result of losing their job. Not to mention fortunes being wiped off pensions when the recession really kicks in. 
 

Don’t envy governments having to make decisions right now. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 hours ago, gjcc said:

In a ward setting nurses are legally accountable for what they give. They need to have knowledge of what they are giving to people and the side effects/contraindications. They make clinical judgements as to giving or in fact withholding medications and require to justify their reasons.
 

Also responsible for “as required”/PRN medications as well as following local governance with patient group directives. They are in charge of controlled drugs and need to audit them in a stringent process. 

Nurses can also lose their job/registration for not picking up on errors made by doctors and pharmacists. 
 

I fully agree a layman could help out with some nursing tasks but doing a medication round isn’t one of them.in short: It’s not simply “handing over medicine.” There’s a degree of clinical judgement involved. 

 

Exactly, it simply isn't a case of "handing over medicine", especially when it comes to controlled drugs, and not everything is in tablet form either a lot of medication is administered via injection or a drip.

 

Not only can nurses lose their job if they get things wrong, they can get a criminal record and even go to jail, so there can be a lot at stake, notwithstanding patients lives.

 

It's not the worst idea in the world to have unskilled labour to help out here and there, but I'm not sure just what they legally would be able to do or indeed be covered for insurance wise either.  Then there is the thorny question of data protection, as on a ward there is sensitive personal information about patients and not all of it is on a computer, there is still a lot of paper files around.

 

[Dazo]

23 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Which is great. How do you balance this against people not being treated for things like endometriosis, rheumatic pain and many other conditions or weigh it up against the amount of people plunged into poverty as a result of losing their job. Not to mention fortunes being wiped off pensions when the recession really kicks in. 
 

Don’t envy governments having to make decisions right now. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. 

He doesn’t balance a single thing other than proving Nicola is correct with her cutting edge strategy of keeping people locked away brings the transmission rate down. Zero ****s are given to businesses or the medical, financial or mental health for the rest of the population. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

He doesn’t balance a single thing other than proving Nicola is correct with her cutting edge strategy of keeping people locked away brings the transmission rate down. Zero ****s are given to businesses or the medical, financial or mental health for the rest of the population. 

I just hope the long term effects of it all don’t end up even worse than the virus.

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

He doesn’t balance a single thing other than proving Nicola is correct with her cutting edge strategy of keeping people locked away brings the transmission rate down. Zero ****s are given to businesses or the medical, financial or mental health for the rest of the population. 

 

Let's hear your cutting edge strategy that would work better. 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Ah, Ray. Your discussion style, as always, is a breath of fresh air, bringing good manners, a high-level of wit and sophistication and a healthy dose of eloquence to the table.

 

Reducing contact between people is always going to reduce transmission of any virus. The four-tier 'nuanced' and 'localised' part of it is, to shamefully borrow your own turn of phrase, 'utter pish', and you know it.

 

The (likely misleading anyway) stats are ignored so that the SG can pretty much impose whichever tier it likes on any particular part of the country it sees fit. 

 

The tier system is not utter pish at all. It allows parts of the country that aren't badly affected to live with more normality. This is considerably better than slapping the entire country into a full scale lockdown, as currently being suffered in England.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The tier system is not utter pish at all. It allows parts of the country that aren't badly affected to live with more normality. This is considerably better than slapping the entire country into a full scale lockdown, as currently being suffered in England.

Only if we don’t end up in a full scale lockdown on top of all the restrictions, tier systems etc. Otherwise it’s just been a waste of time. 
 

The fact it’s difficult to understand why some regions are in tier levels their infection rates don’t seem to merit will lead to resentment of the system imo. 

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Only if we don’t end up in a full scale lockdown on top of all the restrictions, tier systems etc. Otherwise it’s just been a waste of time. 
 

The fact it’s difficult to understand why some regions are in tier levels their infection rates don’t seem to merit will lead to resentment of the system imo. 

 

It's not purely down to case numbers, local area hospital and ICU capacity are also taken into consideration.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

A question about the proposed travel ban . I Am meant to be going to Aviemore next Friday . Might be that be f**** ? Just wondering as I read hotels can’t have people staying from other tiers ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

49 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Which is great. How do you balance this against people not being treated for things like endometriosis, rheumatic pain and many other conditions or weigh it up against the amount of people plunged into poverty as a result of losing their job. Not to mention fortunes being wiped off pensions when the recession really kicks in. 
 

Don’t envy governments having to make decisions right now. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. 

Or cancer treatments 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It's not purely down to case numbers, local area hospital and ICU capacity are also taken into consideration.

 

Seems to be a common feeling that bordering regions rates affect what tier an area is in as well. Not sure if this is a misconception or not but I feel for a country of Scotland’s size, splitting up into small regions and almost micromanaging the situation (or attempting to) isn’t a great way to do it. Hoping it’s successful in driving down the numbers but I’m fairly sceptical. 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Or cancer treatments 

Edited November 6, 2020 by GinRummy

[GinRummy]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Indeed. The examples I used were from people I know who have had treatments disrupted because of Covid 19. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

22 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I suggest you wont be going as travel is technically not permitted, assuming your in the central belt. Depending what your accommodation arrangements are, I a suspect your postcode will flag you.

 

That said is its a ‘work’ trip then your all good👍

 

 

Cheers ! I thought this might be the case I’m meant to be going with family . That’s second time it’s been cancelled now 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Exactly, it simply isn't a case of "handing over medicine", especially when it comes to controlled drugs, and not everything is in tablet form either a lot of medication is administered via injection or a drip.

 

Not only can nurses lose their job if they get things wrong, they can get a criminal record and even go to jail, so there can be a lot at stake, notwithstanding patients lives.

 

It's not the worst idea in the world to have unskilled labour to help out here and there, but I'm not sure just what they legally would be able to do or indeed be covered for insurance wise either.  Then there is the thorny question of data protection, as on a ward there is sensitive personal information about patients and not all of it is on a computer, there is still a lot of paper files around.

 

 

And yet it's estimated that there are 237 million medication errors made in NHS England every single year possibly causing over 23,000 deaths a year.

 

 

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/more-than-200-million-medication-errors-occur-in-nhs-per-year-say-researchers/

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Only if we don’t end up in a full scale lockdown on top of all the restrictions, tier systems etc. Otherwise it’s just been a waste of time. 
 

The fact it’s difficult to understand why some regions are in tier levels their infection rates don’t seem to merit will lead to resentment of the system imo. 

Also need to take account of SNP and NS fear of upsetting their West of Scotland base, therefore need to treat Glasgow and Lanarkshire with kid gloves and leniency while treating Edinburgh with contempt. 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Also need to take account of SNP and NS fear of upsetting their West of Scotland base, therefore need to treat Glasgow and Lanarkshire with kid gloves and leniency while treating Edinburgh with contempt. 

 

Do people really believe things like the above or it just trolling?

[JudyJudyJudy]

41 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

You might get lucky if they change the tiers next week. 
 

 

Yes here’s hoping I need a wee break . Some normality 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes here’s hoping I need a wee break . Some normality 

 

Set yourself up as a business and call it a meeting 😂

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Do people really believe things like the above or it just trolling?

Not trolling. Lanarkshire and Glasgow should have been in higher tier and everyone knows it. No justification for decision other than playing politics. Read NS Tweets. She doesn't hide bias, so why should I or anyone else ignore it. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

47 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

And yet it's estimated that there are 237 million medication errors made in NHS England every single year possibly causing over 23,000 deaths a year.

 

 

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/more-than-200-million-medication-errors-occur-in-nhs-per-year-say-researchers/

 

 

 

Does that mean we don't go outside and applaud them. That's a serious number of errors. Few years back, my dad fell and broke his arm outside Tannadice. Was taken to hospital in Edinburgh and doctors gave him wrong painkillers. Caused him to have heart attack and was ill for weeks before recovering. He then suffered heart problems for rest of life before he died. I know that they are busy but no excuse for these mistakes. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I suggest you wont be going as travel is technically not permitted, assuming your in the central belt. Depending what your accommodation arrangements are, I a suspect your postcode will flag you.

 

That said is its a ‘work’ trip then your all good👍

 

 

 

Just back from a few days in Perthshire. Our lodgings knew where we were from and were absolutely sympathetic to the situation. Managed a couple of nice dinners out too. 

[graygo]

7 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Does that mean we don't go outside and applaud them. That's a serious number of errors. Few years back, my dad fell and broke his arm outside Tannadice. Was taken to hospital in Edinburgh and doctors gave him wrong painkillers. Caused him to have heart attack and was ill for weeks before recovering. He then suffered heart problems for rest of life before he died. I know that they are busy but no excuse for these mistakes. 

 

Half as much as Covid-19 has killed, bloody nurses will keep us in lockdown forever.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

57 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

And yet it's estimated that there are 237 million medication errors made in NHS England every single year possibly causing over 23,000 deaths a year.

 

 

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/more-than-200-million-medication-errors-occur-in-nhs-per-year-say-researchers/

 

 

 

 

 

Scary to think what could happen if it were people with minimal training dishing out the medications.

 

 

[Brighton Jambo]

1072 new cases today.  It seems the figure is pretty steady and has been for a while now.  While I think it’s good that the recent restrictions means it hasn’t raced out of control I can’t see what it going to start causing that number to drop if it hasn’t already.  We have had restrictions in place in the West for weeks now and infection rates remain steady.  Something needs to change or we will be stuck like this for months.  

Edited November 6, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[Ray Gin]

29 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Do people really believe things like the above or it just trolling?

 

Trolling. Already pointed out Glasgow had a lockdown that Edinburgh didn't, but he continues posting this nonsense at every opportunity. 

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

 

Scary to think what could happen if it were people with minimal training dishing out the medications.

 

 

Scary to think how few errors might be made if the job was given to someone who had half the workload of a nurse. Training or the lack of it is obviously not the issue here.

 

Edit: or given to a nurse with half their current workload is probably a better answer.

Edited November 6, 2020 by graygo

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

1072 new cases today.  It seems the figure is pretty steady and has been for a while now.  While I think it’s good that the recent restrictions means it hasn’t raced out of control I can’t see what it going to start causing that number to drop if it hasn’t already.  We have had restrictions in place in the West for weeks now and infection rates remain steady.  Something needs to change or we will be stuck like this for months.  

 

It took several weeks of full lockdown in spring for the numbers to significantly drop. 

[theshed]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Cheers ! I thought this might be the case I’m meant to be going with family . That’s second time it’s been cancelled now 

just go and enjoy yourself 

[theshed]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It took several weeks of full lockdown in spring for the numbers to significantly drop. 

Yes but back the people weren’t going to each other’s houses to drink at the weekends. That’s the big problem and it won’t stop 

[Chaps]

Taken from STV News....

 

further 31 people with coronavirus have died in Scotland, as more than 1000 new cases were recorded.

The death toll under the measure of people who first tested positive within the previous 28 days now stands at 2997.

The latest daily figures, which saw 1072 new cases confirmed, were revealed by the First Minister at the briefing on Friday.

Of these cases, 460 were in Greater Glasgow and Clyde, 210 in Lanarkshire, 112 in Lothian and 75 in Ayrshire and Arran.

 

 

The remaining cases were spread across seven other health board areas.

There were 1237 people in hospital confirmed to have the virus – 98 of whom were receiving treatment in intensive care.

[Brighton Jambo]

10 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It took several weeks of full lockdown in spring for the numbers to significantly drop. 

You can’t compare them as like for like.    Back then schools were shut, the weather meant people could go outside and meet outside and there was greater levels of compliance.  
 

Given the current numbers I don’t see a way out of the current restrictions until well into next year.  Christmas will also make the situation worse as there will be mass breaches of the current rules.  

[Malinga the Swinga]

12 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Trolling. Already pointed out Glasgow had a lockdown that Edinburgh didn't, but he continues posting this nonsense at every opportunity. 

Without fail, any criticism of NS and up you pop to defend and deflect. Look at tiers we have now. Look at the data being produced now. This is system your beloved leader put in place and Glasgow/Lanarkshire should be higher than Lothian/Edinburgh. Just once, can't you admit NS isn't infallible or does that feel like you are betraying her.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

8 minutes ago, Chaps said:

Taken from STV News....

 

further 31 people with coronavirus have died in Scotland, as more than 1000 new cases were recorded.

The death toll under the measure of people who first tested positive within the previous 28 days now stands at 2997.

The latest daily figures, which saw 1072 new cases confirmed, were revealed by the First Minister at the briefing on Friday.

Of these cases, 460 were in Greater Glasgow and Clyde, 210 in Lanarkshire, 112 in Lothian and 75 in Ayrshire and Arran.

 

 

The remaining cases were spread across seven other health board areas.

There were 1237 people in hospital confirmed to have the virus – 98 of whom were receiving treatment in intensive care.

Go on Mr Gin, tell me why Greater Glasgow &  Lothian are treated the same. 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Go on Mr Gin, tell me why Greater Glasgow &  Lothian are treated the same. 

Political optic.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Scary to think how few errors might be made if the job was given to someone who had half the workload of a nurse. Training or the lack of it is obviously not the issue here.

 

Better still if you had the proper number of staff on duty in the first place, then the workload wouldn't be so heavy on those on duty.

 

As I've said your idea of employing & fast tracking unemployed people isn't the worst idea in the  world, however it's not going to happen simply because, If the NHS isn't going to employ more nurses or auxiliaries, then there is no way they'll employ thousands of gofers either.

 

[DETTY29]

On the medication debate just asked my wife in mental health social care.

 

No training as such for tablets, just same as you and I prescribed and understanding instructions for ourselves.

 

EDIT - got to remember even for her numbers are relatively and can look after at most high single figure service users daily.  

 

Training for emergency medication such as epilepsy... (that's suppository)

 

Needles such diabetes, absolute no.  Can help with checking levels for self administration, if able.  If service user isn't capable of self administration, district nurse administers, twice daily or whatever req'd. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by DETTY29

[graygo]

21 minutes ago, theshed said:

Yes but back the people weren’t going to each other’s houses to drink at the weekends. That’s the big problem and it won’t stop 

 

It's scary that the SG don't see this and also schools and universities being back.