Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

Our, or at least my, way of life involves socially interacting with friends, family and occasionally strangers, too. I would suggest that a significant proportion of normal people in Scotland, the rUK and around the world enjoy similar lifestyles.

 

I would be quite glad for the government to ignore it. They've done the same, or similar, with many other daily risks we encounter. Cars still drive on roads  (seat belt laws, MOT laws, tech advances such as air bags ), planes still fly in the sky  (airport security & restricted baggage items), alcohol is still produced, fetishised and sold (generating substantial tax revenue) (partly true -  under-age ID and limited hours laws - but failed prohibition attempts and black market/smuggling make this an awkward one), cancer-producing products are still pumped into our atmosphere and diets on a daily basis, knives are still sold in supermarkets (under age ID laws) , and a million and one other things are still tolerated as part of our lives.(Yes, but  governments aren't just  doing nothing). 

 

Indeed, I would suggest that under-evidenced, over-hyped wearing of masks is only making things worse. If the government can't accept people moving around without wearing something like that then I don't accept the damage that these products are doing to my children's future planet. (Fair comment - there was a spectacular u-turn back in April/May on masks without explanation).

 

We have accepted levels of risk associated with the lifestyles we lead until now. Why has CV19 changed this? It hasn't - science is still learning what Covid is capable of doing to folk  .....anti-virals and vaccines are being developed & trialled.   Eventually we will live with it, just like flu.  But we've not reached that point yet. 

 

I would suggest that it is simply something that has come along at the perfect confluence of social media hysteria, 24-hour news, style over substance politics in which a serious face combined with graphics and slogans is enough to appear statesmanlike, an increasingly feminised and infantilised population and ubiquitous, addictive technology to become something that everyone can fear, talk about (online) and accept unprecedented levels of government interference in their lives.  Fair comment - but only medical science and appropriate funding will cause us to start talking about something else..... I'll guess 2022 before Covid vanishes from the front pages.

 

So no, no disclaimer needed. Just let folk get on with their lives.   Some of us are getting on with our lives as best we can, while following simple common sense precautions.  It's possible to do both. 

 

 

We're clearly at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how we view the role of government and chief scientist / medical advisors in a new global virus threat like this.    Still, good  to read your views though.  👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

 

I agree, as Covid is another respiratory disease, so if one of the above doesn't kill you then Covid might. However it is the excess deaths that tell the real story.  I would expect that the excess deaths for 2020 will be in the range of 10%-15% over the year.

You may well be right FF. It's good news that deaths from the virus appear to be lower this time , due to better treatments,  and hopefully we can get a vaccine rolled out to the most vulnerable before New Year.

[Footballfirst]

29 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Is it not the case that earlier in the year, during the first wave the excess deaths were high as treatment of Covid-19 patients wasn't great whereas we now have better treatments so less deaths? The graph you posted would seem to back that up. (Sorry, RedJambo posted)

The lack of treatments earlier in the year compared to now is certainly a factor in the scale of the excess deaths seen, both then and now. The peak days saw deaths of over 1,100 in April, but the recent instances of 300+ a day remains significant and will push the excess deaths figures higher through to the end of the year unless there is a sudden drop off in case numbers.

[steve123]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/edinburgh-and-east-lothian-could-be-out-level-three-new-lockdown-restrictions-fortnight-3019569

 

All down to West Lothian apparently !!

Edited October 29, 2020 by steve123

[steve123]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeon-urges-scots-follow-22928258

 

Fek me this is deranged, just seen it getting to trump levels !!

Edited October 29, 2020 by steve123

[Nucky Thompson]

5 minutes ago, steve123 said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeon-urges-scots-follow-22928258

 

Fek me this is deranged, just seen it getting to trump levels !!

Unbelievable 

The brainwashed minions will be lapping it up

[theshed]

18 minutes ago, steve123 said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeon-urges-scots-follow-22928258

 

Fek me this is deranged, just seen it getting to trump levels !!

Dear god it gets worse 🙄🙄

[Roxy Hearts]

5 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

That's how politics work. If you're not happy with how the current lot are running the country, vote them out.

I'm in Edinburgh West and vote Lib Dem. I wouldn't say I was a die hard member of their party, but Alex Cole Hamilton is doing a good job.

 

I'm Edinburgh West and that lying Cole Hamilton and Jardine are a good representation of what's wrong with Scottish Unionism. 2 loathsome characters. Nothing positive to say and are poor politicians, just typical anti Scottish rhetoric.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

Have a quit read of this, really well presented and gives us nice information about how people can catch the virus

 

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html?fbclid=IwAR0N1TXZfWTArJsl6Y1oIGQbiNbZrbpGm7fOkUOlDOaka2J69m25IKsFLlQ

Quite interesting graphic and explanation.

Good to see the SG are all over this with preventative measures in all the settings in this scenario. 

No household interactions for nearly 5 weeks, pubs shut for 4 weeks and schools and Uni's carrying on regardless with absolutely zero mitigations. 

It does beg the question as to how the virus is gaining community transmission right 🤔

[Nucky Thompson]

11 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm Edinburgh West and that lying Cole Hamilton and Jardine are a good representation of what's wrong with Scottish Unionism. 2 loathsome characters. Nothing positive to say and are poor politicians, just typical anti Scottish rhetoric.

Your view is tainted by your rabid nationalism and bitterness that they keep the SNP candidate from winning the seat.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

A serious thread has become entertaining with the seethe.

[Weakened Offender]

34 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

A serious thread has become entertaining with the seethe.

 

Seriously, when was it serious? 

[AlphonseCapone]

11 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Seriously, when was it serious? 

 

Now since you said seriously? 

[redjambo]

[Jambo 4 Ever]

31 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Seriously, when was it serious? 

We need everyone to take it seriously though 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Your view is tainted by your rabid nationalism and bitterness that they keep the SNP candidate from winning the seat.

 

 

What's "rabid nationalism"? Sticking Union Jacks on food packaging, displaying them on numerous programmes? I'm not bitter, just a little perturbed at people like you who have no confidence in people who live in Scotland to run their own affairs.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

[Bongo 1874]

We will get through this guys, and hopefully by the January / March some will be able to go watch the Hearts  😉. 

 

 

[graygo]

27 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We will get through this guys, and hopefully by the January / March some will be able to go watch the Hearts  😉. 

 

 

I'm liking the positive posts you've put up the last few days.

Probably shite but I'm liking them anyway. 👍

[vegas-voss]

Somebody got it right.

 

https://time.com/5905129/taiwan-coronavirus-record/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=world_covid-19&linkId=103126789

[redjambo]

545,903 new cases of Covid recorded around the world yesterday (Thursday), a record by a long way.

 

Here's how the pandemic has progressed globally since the start. Sobering stuff.

 

 

 

[Heartsmad1874]

 

[Captain Sausage]

Maybe someone can explain why there a numerous stories in the press of random idiots breaking Covid rules (I.e. not isolating, breaking quarantine, etc) being handed £5-10k fines, yet Margaret Ferrier didn’t receive any punishment for knowingly travelling by public transport when having Covid?

[Heartsmad1874]

3 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Maybe someone can explain why there a numerous stories in the press of random idiots breaking Covid rules (I.e. not isolating, breaking quarantine, etc) being handed £5-10k fines, yet Margaret Ferrier didn’t receive any punishment for knowingly travelling by public transport when having Covid?

Some garbage about restrictions/regulations not been in effect.

 

How very convenient. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-mp-margaret-ferrier-avoids-police-action-over-covid-19-trip-3004644%3famp

[The Mighty Thor]

8 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

 

Id also challenge you on the zero mitigation in schools. 

I'd be interested to hear your views on the mitigations in schools.

My understanding is that the kids are in an unventilated space for 6 hours a day with little physical distancing and no masks. (Note: in that report it says in 2 hours 50% of people in a classroom would be infected by patient zero)

 

Great for those asymptomatic kids but not great for mum and dad and their work colleagues and every other poor **** that gets on the end of this completely unchecked vector of transmission. 

 

They'll realise eventually that the iceberg has torn a huge hole in their Titanic. 

[Captain Sausage]

34 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Some garbage about restrictions/regulations not been in effect.

 

How very convenient. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-mp-margaret-ferrier-avoids-police-action-over-covid-19-trip-3004644%3famp

Cheers. As you say, utter crock of shit but she seems to be lying low and trying to disappear from the public eye until a bigger storm rolls in. 
 

 

[GinRummy]

Wondered this for a while. With the excess deaths figure, often described as the best measure, who decides if those deaths were cause by Covid or lockdown itself. With undiagnosed serious illness and sick people having appointments delayed and suicides up, are these figures simply attributed to Covid?

 

Also, poverty in this country is strongly linked to earlier death, with an extra £2 million people on benefits are we just killing more people earlier over the long term. Could lockdowns and restrictions cause more deaths than the virus itself?

Edited October 30, 2020 by GinRummy

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

I believe the restrictions will cause more deaths than they save in the long term. Austerity after the financial crisis caused over 100k deaths allegedly. 
 

On your question, I assume they will look at excess deaths and then subtract the covid death, then you have excess deaths from lockdown. Obviously a bit more analysis than that, but at its most basic I suspect that’s how they do it. 

You believe!? Well that's that then. 👍 Case closed. 

 

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

I believe the restrictions will cause more deaths than they save in the long term. Austerity after the financial crisis caused over 100k deaths allegedly. 
 

On your question, I assume they will look at excess deaths and then subtract the covid death, then you have excess deaths from lockdown. Obviously a bit more analysis than that, but at its most basic I suspect that’s how they do it. 
 

 

 

That would make sense, thanks.  

[Nucky Thompson]

48 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'd be interested to hear your views on the mitigations in schools.

My understanding is that the kids are in an unventilated space for 6 hours a day with little physical distancing and no masks. (Note: in that report it says in 2 hours 50% of people in a classroom would be infected by patient zero)

 

Great for those asymptomatic kids but not great for mum and dad and their work colleagues and every other poor **** that gets on the end of this completely unchecked vector of transmission. 

 

They'll realise eventually that the iceberg has torn a huge hole in their Titanic. 

My daughter is moaning her socks off. They are keeping all the windows open in the classrooms and the kids are freezing.

They need to man up. I went to school in the snow with shorts on

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Can’t speak for everyone but at my kids primary school the teachers all wear masks and the windows and doors to classrooms are all open. 

Is it cold?

[GinRummy]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

Yes 

Won’t they be more prone to other illnesses by sitting in the cold all day. Seems a bit crazy to me. Is there good evidence to say Covid spreads less with windows open. 

[graygo]

6 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

Somebody got it right.

 

https://time.com/5905129/taiwan-coronavirus-record/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=world_covid-19&linkId=103126789

 

No thanks, don't fancy living like that.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

Yes there is. 
 

they are instructed to be sent to school

ready for outdoor learning. 

So somebody has done a study saying Covid doesn’t spread as well with windows open? You’d have thought that would have been bigger news and led to more windows being open all over the country and not just schools. 

[Shanks]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So somebody has done a study saying Covid doesn’t spread as well with windows open? You’d have thought that would have been bigger news and led to more windows being open all over the country and not just schools. 

Its on modes of public transport as well.  Signs on the windows saying to keep them open to allow fresh air to circulate.

 

Seems pretty common sense that ventilation will help. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Shanks said:

Its on modes of public transport as well.  Signs on the windows saying to keep them open to allow fresh air to circulate.

 

Seems pretty common sense that ventilation will help. 

Been on buses a few times and when all the windows are open it certainly when wearing a mask more bearable.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Shanks said:

Its on modes of public transport as well.  Signs on the windows saying to keep them open to allow fresh air to circulate.

 

Seems pretty common sense that ventilation will help. 

I’m not saying ventilation won’t help but would just like to see evidence that it does. We know that people are more susceptible to many viruses in cold weather though. I wouldn’t have questioned school kids sitting in open windowed rooms in the middle of summer. Also, children don’t seem to be at a big risk of developing the more serious complications of Covid unless they have pre-existing conditions. I think asking kids with pre existing conditions to sit about in the cold all day could be quite harmful. 

[The Mighty Thor]

26 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Can’t speak for everyone but at my kids primary school the teachers all wear masks and the windows and doors to classrooms are all open. 

If I was standing in front of 30 disease super spreaders for 6 hours a day I'd be wearing a mask too.

 

I'd heard about the genius plan of open the windows, in Scotland, in winter. 

 

The desperation to keep schools open at any cost is and will undermine any other measures they put in place across society. 

[vegas-voss]

16 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

No thanks, don't fancy living like that.

What do you want then.They seem to be living and the economy is growing.The have contact tracing system that actually works and a largely complying population and you stay isolated if infected something that a lot here seem incapable of doing.

 

I'm not saying everything they do would work here but too much pussy footing about has left us in the state we are in now a constant cycle of trial and error with **** all really working.

Edited October 30, 2020 by vegas-voss

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’m not saying ventilation won’t help but would just like to see evidence that it does. We know that people are more susceptible to many viruses in cold weather though. I wouldn’t have questioned school kids sitting in open windowed rooms in the middle of summer. Also, children don’t seem to be at a big risk of developing the more serious complications of Covid unless they have pre-existing conditions. I think asking kids with pre existing conditions to sit about in the cold all day could be quite harmful. 

 

People are only susceptible to viruses in cold weather because they spend more time indoors not directly because it's cold.

[GinRummy]

Just now, graygo said:

 

People are only susceptible to viruses in cold weather because they spend more time indoors not directly because it's cold.

Fair enough. The classroom is still indoors. I’m not convinced that having windows open and having kids sitting around in the winter is too clever an idea. I know that if temperatures in schools fall below a certain level the kids get sent home. I’d imagine that’s to protect their health. 

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

What do you want then.They seem to be living and the economy is growing.The have contact tracing system that actually works and a largely complying population and you stay isolated if infected something that a lot here seem incapable of doing.

 

You stay isolated even if not infected. If you're contact traced, test negative, you still isolate for 2 weeks and there's a $35,000 fine if you don't. Of course the population comply, they do in North Korea too.

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

If I was standing in front of 30 disease super spreaders for 6 hours a day I'd be wearing a mask too.

 

I'd heard about the genius plan of open the windows, in Scotland, in winter. 

 

The desperation to keep schools open at any cost is and will undermine any other measures they put in place across society. 

A mask doesn’t protect you from catching it and in all likelihood cause you more likely to catch it as people are constantly touching their face adjusting them. 
 

Parents need to work, kids going to school is a large part of allowing many people to work. So not at all costs but schooling is a pretty important for a lot of reasons. 

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Fair enough. The classroom is still indoors. I’m not convinced that having windows open and having kids sitting around in the winter is too clever an idea. I know that if temperatures in schools fall below a certain level the kids get sent home. I’d imagine that’s to protect their health. 

Got to agree with this. If the schools are open they are open I think the pretence of having windows open is a joke. The fact not all schools do this makes it a mockery. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

You need to read this, it has schools as an example too, was posted a few times yesterday, Unlike some stuff you see posted on internet this is wort the 5 mins

 

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html?fbclid=IwAR08XD7lCEmxGzJMppcZvreM6Q0i5bbvF01f3emwCHkir8QtIInFgN76hOI

Cheers. Will have a read through. 

[vegas-voss]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

You stay isolated even if not infected. If you're contact traced, test negative, you still isolate for 2 weeks and there's a $35,000 fine if you don't. Of course the population comply, they do in North Korea too.

Don't think they are isolating much seeing as they have not had a domestic case in 200 days

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

A mask doesn’t protect you from catching it and in all likelihood cause you more likely to catch it as people are constantly touching their face adjusting them. 
 

Parents need to work, kids going to school is a large part of allowing many people to work. So not at all costs but schooling is a pretty important for a lot of reasons. 

I don't disagree but you're never going to get on top of this virus with a huge transmission vector running unchecked. You can shut pubs and ban household mixing all you want its never going to beat it. 

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Fair enough. The classroom is still indoors. I’m not convinced that having windows open and having kids sitting around in the winter is too clever an idea. I know that if temperatures in schools fall below a certain level the kids get sent home. I’d imagine that’s to protect their health. 

 

There is no law saying schools need to close if it's too cold only a guideline of 16°c same as any indoor workplace, it's for comfort reasons rather than health.

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Don't think they are isolating much seeing as they have not had a domestic case in 200 days

 

They've had imported cases though.

 

From the article - "So far, about 340,000 people have been under home quarantine, "

Edited October 30, 2020 by graygo

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

There is no law saying schools need to close if it's too cold only a guideline of 16°c same as any indoor workplace, it's for comfort reasons rather than health.

Always assumed it was health related. Thank you.