Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 hours ago, King prawn said:

Surprisingly the number of Covid related deaths in Sweden hasn’t gone above 4 per day since July whereas there were 367 in the UK yesterday.  

Perhaps they record the real cause of death for their citizens instead of just using Covid 19, regardless of whether patient was suffering from other illnesses or disease that would have killed them anyway.

 

For country of our size, the figures we have are atrocious, but given we sent out positive infections into Care homes, not really a surprise. Anyone resigned over that decision yet, or are we just sweeping it under the carpet. 

[DETTY29]

14 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Concentrating on Scotland, why should we copy what rest of Europe doing. They also allowed spectators back, in limited amounts, to sport and kept open hospitality. We didn't copy them when they relaxed restrictions, so why copy them when they increase them?

 

Using whataboutery is a poor excuse for doing anything, but one that NS is particularly adept at.

 

6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

But it is the 1 metric that government have been using for last few months. Now, when figures are going right way for Edinburgh and the wrong way for NS and Glasgow, she conveniently forgets about them. Mind, she has previous for conveniently forgetting things as AS report showed.

Isn't anything or there that isn't more than valid, especially as the other metrics aren't as easily accessible, if at all publicly published.

 

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

back on topic

 

These are very interesting stats and you would hope that any savvy journalist or local politicians would actually question the government on the tiers they are placing areas into.

 

sadly I cannot see that happening. Working every day in Edinburgh City Centre is a depressing experience. I love my city but it is a shell of its former self. 

The current council are doing a fantastic job of draining the soul of the city. Transport has become a bigger joke than it was with cones everywhere and roads being blocked for no reason (other than to placate Greens for backing Swinney), empty shops are everywhere, apart from Morningside, and the current leader of the council is more worried about keeping in with NS than fighting for its citizens. 

[redjambo]

21 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Unfortunately that is based on only 1 metric.

 

Plus for all the frameworks in the world, key decision makers will always have the opportunity to over-ride.

 

True, but I was only providing the stats.

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

The current council are doing a fantastic job of draining the soul of the city. Transport has become a bigger joke than it was with cones everywhere and roads being blocked for no reason (other than to placate Greens for backing Swinney), empty shops are everywhere, apart from Morningside, and the current leader of the council is more worried about keeping in with NS than fighting for its citizens. 

 

[Shanks said no]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

The current council are doing a fantastic job of draining the soul of the city. Transport has become a bigger joke than it was with cones everywhere and roads being blocked for no reason (other than to placate Greens for backing Swinney), empty shops are everywhere, apart from Morningside, and the current leader of the council is more worried about keeping in with NS than fighting for its citizens. 

And not ring fencing any of the Covid money to remove the spaces for people temporary measures will make life returning to normal an interesting challenge. Even in semi lockdown traffic jams have increased in Corstorphine 

 

Just now, redjambo said:

 

True, but I was only providing the stats.

and a very good job you do. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

Isn't anything or there that isn't more than valid, especially as the other metrics aren't as easily accessible, if at all publicly published.

 

 

 

 

It's the one she constantly referred to, the one the dentist took delight in using to explain the two and a bit week (remember that, it was going to be 16 days) restrictions that were introduced.

 

Now, when the figures clearly show Edinburgh and Glasgow should be in different tiers, other, unknown and unpublished factors have to be considered. She is playing a game. I know it, you know it, we all know it, apart from J4E who frankly looks like he knows **** all. We are just the pawns in her political manoeuvring and she couldn't give a monkey if we all lost our jobs or homes.

[Footballfirst]

12 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

Isn't anything or there that isn't more than valid, especially as the other metrics aren't as easily accessible, if at all publicly published.

 

Going by the figures published today, NHS Lothian has 131 cases in hospital, compared to 21 on 1st October. The peak figure was 236 on 18th April.

 

The corresponding ICU figures are 7 today, fewer than 5 on 1st October and a peak of 39 on 5th April.

 

The hospital figures don't appear to have peaked in the current wave as yet, but the ICU figures have been stable over the past week. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

And not ring fencing any of the Covid money to remove the spaces for people temporary measures will make life returning to normal an interesting challenge. Even in semi lockdown traffic jams have increased in Corstorphine 

 

and a very good job you do. 

You think the council will remove them, even after Covid. No chance, they will perform a consultation period, everyone will object, and they will just proceed as they want regardless. Green support does not come cheap and that is the price we are paying. Green Party are our equivalent of DUP during Brexit. They know SNP need their support and they are screwing out every ridiculous policy they can while they have this opportunity. Couldn't win enough votes to get a voice themselves, but happy to piggy back on SNP desperation.

[manaliveits105]

and taking other factors (cough cough) into consideration 

[redjambo]

10 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

And a very good job you do. 

 

Many thanks, TFR. It looks as if @Footballfirst is going to be providing stats from the dashboard as well now, which is excellent. The more data we have, the better.

[redjambo]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

and taking other factors (cough cough) into consideration 

 

Only one of the 3 main symptoms.

[manaliveits105]

maybe not the best turn of phrase

[vegas-voss]

This tier system is just a last ditch to try and stop things spreading.It won't work as has been said some folk won't even do the basics and we will be back in full lockdown.Boris coming under increasing pressure to shut us all down so it's a nap Sturgeon would follow or take the lead.

[CJGJ]

The first outbreak seems to have hit the most vulnerable hardest and sad to say led to many deaths plus the stupidity of placing the elderly in homes when they had covid enabling the spread to the most vulnerable members of our society.

 

Wave 2 may well have high numbers of those catching the virus but fewer deaths resulting as many of those most vulnerable have already been infected or passed away and surely there will not be the same move of the vulnerable to nursing homes again

[Footballfirst]

14 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

One thing I've not seen mentioned is it could be one figure on the way up to move banding, but a different one on the way down. Whatever they do it needs to be transparent, the figures are massively different for areas that are apparently going to be in the same banding

 

I think it's down to NS' naturally cautious approach to relaxing restrictions, as she did in June/July. Nearly every area will start where they currently sit, but it will allow another's week's more severe restrictions to have an effect before she is forced to start dropping levels. 

 

Realistically, I'd expect Edinburgh to drop to Level 2 within the next two weeks, with the hope that the downward pressure will continue to depress the numbers and allow Edinburgh, at least, to be in level 1 in the lead up to Christmas.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Footballfirst

[steve123]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

I think it's down to NS' naturally cautious approach to relaxing restrictions, as she did in June/July. Nearly every area will start where they currently sit, but it will give another's week's more severe restrictions to have an effect before she is forced to start dropping levels. 

 

Realistically, I'd expect Edinburgh to drop to Level 2 within the next two weeks, with the hope that the downward pressure will continue to depress the numbers and allow Edinburgh, at least, to be in level 1 in the lead up to Christmas.

This is fair enough, I would even go as far as to say I agree with it but I don't think she does herself any favours when trying to explain to people.

[redjambo]

18 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

This tier system is just a last ditch to try and stop things spreading.It won't work as has been said some folk won't even do the basics and we will be back in full lockdown.Boris coming under increasing pressure to shut us all down so it's a nap Sturgeon would follow or take the lead.

 

I'm not so sure. We're already showing signs of reaching a plateau, infections-wise. I'm quietly hopeful that the new measures will help bring the figures down. Not much consolation to those in hospital and ICU however...

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

I think it's down to NS' naturally cautious approach to relaxing restrictions, as she did in June/July. Nearly every area will start where they currently sit, but it will allow another's week's more severe restrictions to have an effect before she is forced to start dropping levels. 

 

Realistically, I'd expect Edinburgh to drop to Level 2 within the next two weeks, with the hope that the downward pressure will continue to depress the numbers and allow Edinburgh, at least, to be in level 1 in the lead up to Christmas.

I admire your optimism in the belief Edinburgh will drop down to level 2. Also admire restraint in use of 'naturally cautious approach'  as opposed to 'opportunistic political manouvering'.

 

Also don't believe we will be anywhere near tier 1 before Christams but that is due to my naturally cynical approach to politicians.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I admire your optimism in the belief Edinburgh will drop down to level 2. Also admire restraint in use of 'naturally cautious approach'  as opposed to 'opportunistic political manouvering'.

 

Also don't believe we will be anywhere near tier 1 before Christams but that is due to my naturally cynical approach to politicians.

I was deliberately trying not to politicise what the numbers and trends suggest might happen (as least in my mind).

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

The first outbreak seems to have hit the most vulnerable hardest and sad to say led to many deaths plus the stupidity of placing the elderly in homes when they had covid enabling the spread to the most vulnerable members of our society.

 

Wave 2 may well have high numbers of those catching the virus but fewer deaths resulting as many of those most vulnerable have already been infected or passed away and surely there will not be the same move of the vulnerable to nursing homes again

 

That had statistically no real effect on care home infections.

 

 

 

[CJGJ]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

That had statistically no real effect on care home infections.

 

 

 

Tell that to my neighbour you stupid ***** who caught it from one of those moved into his care home,.......the idiot little smiley does you no favours

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, CJGJ said:

Tell that to my neighbour you stupid ***** who caught it from one of those moved into his care home,.......the idiot little smiley does you no favours

 

I think that you and @graygo are in agreement. He was ridiculing the assertion that the moving of covid-positive elderly patients into care homes had no real effect. As far as I'm reading his post anyway.

[DB-14]

3 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Tell that to my neighbour you stupid ***** who caught it from one of those moved into his care home,.......the idiot little smiley does you no favours

 

I think @graygo was just ridiculing Sturgeon making this point earlier in her daily briefing.

[Ron Burgundy]

4 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Tell that to my neighbour you stupid ***** who caught it from one of those moved into his care home,.......the idiot little smiley does you no favours

I'm pretty sure it's an ironic smiley directed at Wee Krankie which is also where you should direct your outrage.

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

I think that you and @graygo are in agreement. He was ridiculing the assertion that the moving of covid-positive elderly patients into care homes had no real effect. As far as I'm reading his post anyway.

If so I apologise...sore subject matter

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, CJGJ said:

If so I apologise...sore subject matter

 

Understandable.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I'm pretty sure it's an ironic smiley directed at Wee Krankie which is also where you should direct your outrage.

 

Not surprising.

 

I watched today's daily briefing as I couldn't find anything else quick to swap to for 20 mins over lunch.

 

The arrogance from Sturgeon and the deputy CMO where they added wriggle room on top of the data for them to weight the results based on demographic rules of thumb on a region.  Edinburgh ain't getting out of Tier 3 with these clowns hammering the nails in while out feckless SNP council tows the party line.

Edited October 28, 2020 by frankblack

[Ron Burgundy]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Not surprising.

 

I watched today's daily briefing as I couldn't find anything else quick to swap to for 20 mins over lunch.

 

The arrogance from Sturgeon and the deputy CMO where they added wriggle room on top of the data for them to weight the results based on demographic rules of thumb on a region.  Edinburgh ain't getting out of Tier 3 with these clowns hammering the nails in while out feckless SNP council tows the party line.

She is just despicable. She is Teflon to her followers.

[PapaShango]

I wouldn't trust anything that the government come out with, the figures will be manipulated to suit their own agenda. Where's the evidence that what they are doing is working? 2 weeks short 'circuit breaker' was never 2 weeks and so it proved. Instead of going into full lockdown like we did in March she is doing it bit by bit. The economy and the voting public shouldn't forget the utter destruction she is causing to the country and the people. Hopefully this is the end of the SNP, an absolutely shambolic party with only one thing on their mind. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just under 3600 patients sent from hospitals to care homes with over 80% of them not tested for Covid before they were received into the home. NS and Scottish government now trying to say that this had no effect of increasing spread of Covid into care homes. I mean, come on, that is just bullshit of the highest order. Even ifonlynansmall percentage of those sent were infected, she condemned other residents of care homes to a virus that reaps havoc on (some of) the old and infirm. Who exactly does NS think makes up most of care home population. 

 

Shocking display of avoiding responsibility from Scottish government and something that she should never be allowed to forget. What a callous cold hearted bitch she is.

[husref musemic]

25 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

That had statistically no real effect on care home infections.

 

 

 

I can't really get my head round the fact this was actually said out loud today.

 

Proof if any was needed that they (the supreme leader) think we're fekin idiots.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Just under 3600 patients sent from hospitals to care homes with over 80% of them not tested for Covid before they were received into the home. NS and Scottish government now trying to say that this had no effect of increasing spread of Covid into care homes. I mean, come on, that is just bullshit of the highest order. Even ifonlynansmall percentage of those sent were infected, she condemned other residents of care homes to a virus that reaps havoc on (some of) the old and infirm. Who exactly does NS think makes up most of care home population. 

 

Shocking display of avoiding responsibility from Scottish government and something that she should never be allowed to forget. What a callous cold hearted bitch she is.

 

I'm not vociferously anti-SG at all. However, people died because of that decision and that's what matters. It was an ill thought out thing to do and there should be repercussions as a result. It can't just be swept under the carpet as "not important statistically in the grand scheme of things".

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

I'm not vociferously anti-SG at all. However, people died because of that decision and that's what matters. It was an ill thought out thing to do and there should be repercussions as a result. It can't just be swept under the carpet as "not important statistically in the grand scheme of things".

Sums up how I feel about it tbh. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Slowed the increase 

Obviously having a beer or a meal and a bottle of vino in a pub or restaurant is spreading the virus while decanting positive Covid patients into care homes full of vulnerable patients, is not??  Welcome to the secretive, sinister, crooked world of the SNP.

[Ron Burgundy]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I'm not vociferously anti-SG at all. However, people died because of that decision and that's what matters. It was an ill thought out thing to do and there should be repercussions as a result. It can't just be swept under the carpet as "not important statistically in the grand scheme of things".

 I'd bet my mortgage on it being swept under the carpet.

[Don Dan]

It’s understandable that people are tetchy when it comes to Covid19 and possibly unnecessary deaths especially in Care Homes. Sturgeon was never going to put both hands up in admitting her part in it. I doubt anyone will be personally blamed for sending the infected back into Care Homes where we now know it caused many early deaths. 
Also can I personally thanks @redjambo and now @Footballfirst for providing facts and figures that we can all consider particularly without any political influence. 

[hmfcbilly]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I'm not vociferously anti-SG at all. However, people died because of that decision and that's what matters. It was an ill thought out thing to do and there should be repercussions as a result. It can't just be swept under the carpet as "not important statistically in the grand scheme of things".

Be like the financial geniuses who were responsible for 2008....how many of them were convicted?? Most sailed off in to the sunset with a massive pay off to keep them going until they took their massive pensions. Different scenario here but still criminal whats happened and I am betting millions will be spent on enquiries but not one conviction will be made. Big slap on the wrists and a huge report on how 'we' all learn from the mistakes made. 

[vegas-voss]

GP at our surgery having to retire with long Covid only in mid 40s.Hasn't worked since April and just doesn't know if they will ever get over it so has decided to leave the practice.

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, Boy Daniel said:

It’s understandable that people are tetchy when it comes to Covid19 and possibly unnecessary deaths especially in Care Homes. Sturgeon was never going to put both hands up in admitting her part in it. I doubt anyone will be personally blamed for sending the infected back into Care Homes where we now know it caused many early deaths. 
Also can I personally thanks @redjambo and now @Footballfirst for providing facts and figures that we can all consider particularly without any political influence. 

I agree no one will take a fall but they sure as hell should.

And the people who's stupidity in making that decision to unwittingly kill off these elderly folk are now doing the same to the economy and kids futures.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

I wouldn't trust anything that the government come out with, the figures will be manipulated to suit their own agenda. Where's the evidence that what they are doing is working? 2 weeks short 'circuit breaker' was never 2 weeks and so it proved. Instead of going into full lockdown like we did in March she is doing it bit by bit. The economy and the voting public shouldn't forget the utter destruction she is causing to the country and the people. Hopefully this is the end of the SNP, an absolutely shambolic party with only one thing on their mind. 

 

It's lockdown by postcode, and by doing it bit by bit they are hoping that the public won't notice.

[husref musemic]

7 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

 I'd bet my mortgage on it being swept under the carpet.

Freeman has a list of **** up's the length of the high street. This is the 'explain it away' to protect her. 

Unlike the people sent to care homes untested.

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It's lockdown by postcode, and by doing it bit by bit they are hoping that the public won't notice.

 

I disagree. They're trying to be more focussed on the areas that need action, which is a good thing. What I want to see is transparency and fairness when it comes to designating areas as falling within the various tiers.

[Ron Burgundy]

5 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

GP at our surgery having to retire with long Covid only in mid 40s.Hasn't worked since April and just doesn't know if they will ever get over it so has decided to leave the practice.

He's been medically retired with Long Covid already? 

I know a guy at my work who couldn't get medical retirement even though he had terminal cancer. He was forced to work til he dropped.

[flogel41]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

One of the things that hasn't helped at all during this pandemic is the variability of the scientific evidence and advice. Doesn't inspire great confidence, imo.

I have had a real issue since the start of this whole thing with scientific opinion being presented as fact when it isn’t. There has also been a rush to publish to pre print servers ,which aren’t peer reviewed, which are being scoured by the media and getting into wider circulation without any of the usual checks and balances. There is widespread confirmation bias in action from all sides.

 

The only real evidence based progress being made is in treatment with the dexamethasone study being the best example.

 

The scientific method is robust but needs clear definition of terms, robust review and the willingness to change tack if evidence says so. All of this is lacking.

 

There has been no wavering from the lockdown, suppress, Hope for vaccine approach from all UK governments. Instead of reviewing this approach with evidence around super spreaders, high risk groups, hospital/care home transmissions etc it has been a case of changing which figures are used to unwaveringly stick to their ill defined approach.

 

Governments are under no scrutiny at the moment and are hiding behind “science” to justify bad decisions.

 

Sorry, I’ve had that rant pent up inside for a wee while!

 

[theshed]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I disagree. They're trying to be more focussed on the areas that need action, which is a good thing. What I want to see is transparency and fairness when it comes to designating areas as falling within the various tiers.

Highly unlikely you will see transparency and fairness 

[Shanks said no]

Danny and Dani Dyer launch new podcast to solve your problems, here he advises us on Covid

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-54709157

 

Mildly entertaining but you have to wonder what the world has come to with him dishing out wisdom.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

He's been medically retired with Long Covid already? 

I know a guy at my work who couldn't get medical retirement even though he had terminal cancer. He was forced to work til he dropped.

Sounds a great company to work for.

[Nucky Thompson]

17 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

 I'd bet my mortgage on it being swept under the carpet.

Hopefully not as there is a criminal investigation ongoing.

 

People who have lost loved ones in care homes have been contacted by the PF's office

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Moving the elderly into care homes from hospital.

 

All anybody has to realise is that suddenly almost overnight hundreds/thousands of spaces were found in care homes for elderly patients, some of whom had been stuck in hospital for weeks, months and on more than a few occasions years, because there was no space for them to go anywhere else.

 

It would take a serious amount of clout/pressure to get things to change that quickly, I think what we seen today with the sweep sweep sweep operation, gives us an indication of perhaps how far up the food chain decisions may have been taken.