Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[The Real Maroonblood]

52 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

So the virus knows if your drinking a beer or a latte, clever fecker that Covid fella.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Of course i remember it and i remember the response to it, that's why i posted the link giving the official position i.e. that Scotland did not run out out of PPE because we had prepared for the pandemic.

 Where's your evidence? you haven't got any and that's why you're running away.

 

 

Oh you are quite correct that NHS Scotland didn't run out of PPE, well not in any wholesale fashion at least.

However that wasn't because we had prepared for the pandemic, no sir, the Scottish Government, like Governments around the globe were caught with their breeks doon and were woefully unprepared for the pandemic, but I don't lay any blame at the SG's door, because they were in the same boat as everyone else.

 

What joe public doesn't know is that single use PPE was routinely reused, sometimes multiple times.

Single use surgical face masks were often steam cleaned and used again.

Single use disposable aprons, were sprayed with anti-bacterial spray, wiped down and put on again before staff went into the next room.

Single use face shields, same as the aprons.

These are just a few examples.

 

This is why NHS Scotland didn't run out of PPE and nothing to do with the prepardness for the pandemic by the Scottish Government.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

56 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Less likely to break the rules if you don’t have alcohol 

 

Tell me how having one pint of beer or one glass of wine with a meal is going to encourage people to break the rules.

[Horatio Caine]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Tell me how having one pint of beer or one glass of wine with a meal is going to encourage people to break the rules.

It's not.  However many people can't limit themselves to one drink.  Alcohol defo a major factor in the spread.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

It's not.  However many people can't limit themselves to one drink.  Alcohol defo a major factor in the spread.

 

Yip.

[Governor Tarkin]

4 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

These would be private businesses and as such they are responsible for procuring the necessary. They are also responsible for training their staff and staff welfare.

 

What's that got to do with there being no PPE available for them to purchase for their highly trained but underpaid staff? Scotland was well prepared right enough. 

 

I agree though, the lassies should've told their employers to **** of and left the corpses rotting where they lay. If that's what it is that you're implying.

 

4 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Next! 😁

 

Hiya, Weakened.

Hiya pal.

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Weakened Offender]

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

What's that got to do with there being no PPE available for them to purchase for their highly trained but underpaid staff? 

 

Quite a lot, actually. 

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Oh you are quite correct that NHS Scotland didn't run out of PPE, well not in any wholesale fashion at least.

However that wasn't because we had prepared for the pandemic, no sir, the Scottish Government, like Governments around the globe were caught with their breeks doon and were woefully unprepared for the pandemic, but I don't lay any blame at the SG's door, because they were in the same boat as everyone else.

 

What joe public doesn't know is that single use PPE was routinely reused, sometimes multiple times.

Single use surgical face masks were often steam cleaned and used again.

Single use disposable aprons, were sprayed with anti-bacterial spray, wiped down and put on again before staff went into the next room.

Single use face shields, same as the aprons.

These are just a few examples.

 

This is why NHS Scotland didn't run out of PPE and nothing to do with the prepardness for the pandemic by the Scottish Government.

 

It did run out.

We bought our own from screwfix.

[Governor Tarkin]

14 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It did run out.

We bought our own from screwfix.

 

Shhhh.

[Governor Tarkin]

18 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Quite a lot, actually. 

 

How's that?

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It did run out.

We bought our own from screwfix.

But the wee Ayrshire keelie told the cult that Scotland was well prepared😮. The Nike conference cover up, the lack of PPE, the lack of testing, the catastrophic decision to decant positive patients into care homes??  She said none of it was her fault. Surely some mistake, no?

[Nucky Thompson]

A possible breakthrough in treatment?

 

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/major-breakthrough-search-coronavirus-treatment-4624146

 

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Shhhh.

Ah but we’re self employed subcontractors so we don’t count...... we’re not the real NHS, who got to down tools, close clinics and stop services .

The NHS that for some reason decided it could shut Children’s mental health services apart for the odd phone call.

Still, the applause was worth it as they were running close to capacity.

Though they always do, as Clinical Directors pursuing “efficiency” make damn sure there are no empty beds or wards , and if there are, they cut them

[Jambo-Jimbo]

20 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It did run out.

We bought our own from screwfix.

 

I am aware of some care homes/GP practices which did run out, what I was refering to was hospital settings which by the measures I mentioned managed to keep going and not run out completely.

 

[Tott]

1 hour ago, Horatio Caine said:

It's not.  However many people can't limit themselves to one drink.  Alcohol defo a major factor in the spread.

 

 

Sure i read somewhere that 4.8% of all positive cases had visited a pub in the last two weeks.

 

Its hardly conclusive proof that alcohol is spreading the virus.

Why not shut B & Q or Dobbies(magnet for auld folk).

[Horatio Caine]

19 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Dobbies should get shut just for being Dobbies, TBF.

 

As someone previously mentioned, 100% of those testing positive had taken a dump in the last week. Ban shitting.

Ffs...yet another of life's pleasures taken away

[A Boy Named Crow]

7 hours ago, jonesy said:

An advocate of the gentle touch approach, I see.  

 

When people don't obey rules, it's because they generally don't see the point in them. If enough people don't see the point in them, then the problem is with the rules, not the people.

Or, the problem is with society as a whole. I mentioned this yesterday, places where solid restrictions were put in place, and followed, like Australia,  New Zealand, Singapore and Hong Kong have greatly reduced their covid numbers and are beginning to get back to a version of normal. In the UK, any restrictions seem to be ignored or got around.  I understand you have a Westminster government that is beyond chaotic,  but there is also personal responsibility.  Without a willingness to take covid seriously as a society, you're utterly grubbed!

[Horatio Caine]

Just now, jonesy said:

Just remember, every time you take a poo,

Nicky Sturgeon's watching you...

Nah, I found her bogcam and disabled it.  She's obsessed with me.

[vegas-voss]

Lockdown loophole in England if it's tier two up to 30 of you can meet in the pub if it's for business purposes 🤣

[Shanks said no]

Surprise surprise, Nicola can’t have a 3 tier system, she has to have 5 tiers. 
 

Just like ignoring the simple hands, face and space with her FACTS, she has to over complicate things. 

[ri Alban]

15 hours ago, steve123 said:

To be fair road map may have been my words for it, basically the 3 tier system.

 

My problem with it is at the start of the 2 week lock down she was adamant it was only for the 2 weeks, she would have known then they would not have seen results by now there is far to much mixed messaging when folks lively hoods are at risk.

 

I am someone who supported her at the start ( not a snp supporter) but fast losing confidence that they know how to deal with it all.

At this minute in time(Pre vaccine or cure) there is only 2 choices, the economy or life. And it's how do you Balance this out. 

Do nothing, more people die. Go full lockdown, business dies. I suppose we'll just have to accept somewhere in between. Shite as it may be. 

 

I'd like to see areas allocated emergency borrowing powers, so they can fund lockdown and businesses can be put on ice til at least a year from now. Taxes should be raised now from the workforce who can work. Time things were done a bit different and if that means we pay more to rescue everyone, so be it. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I see the ONS are saying there isn't a second wave as deaths are only at 1.5% above the 5 year average. 

[ri Alban]

Good, proves restrictions are working on covid. 

[Dazo]

9 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

At this minute in time(Pre vaccine or cure) there is only 2 choices, the economy or life. And it's how do you Balance this out. 

Do nothing, more people die. Go full lockdown, business dies. I suppose we'll just have to accept somewhere in between. Shite as it may be. 

 

I'd like to see areas allocated emergency borrowing powers, so they can fund lockdown and businesses can be put on ice til at least a year from now. Taxes should be raised now from the workforce who can work. Time things were done a bit different and if that means we pay more to rescue everyone, so be it. 

It isn’t just business that dies with lockdown. Lockdown isn’t a solution it’s a panic tactic to save Christmas. People are dying regardless including during lockdown so we need guidelines and soft restrictions that allow all businesses to be open. Shut down the businesses that are clearly and repeatedly breaking the guidelines. 

[ri Alban]

The wife and I both test negative. Back to work the morra. 

[kila]

22 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I see the ONS are saying there isn't a second wave as deaths are only at 1.5% above the 5 year average. 

Yet hospital admissions and ICU numbers increasing daily...

 

Death count isn’t the only concern. Folk clogging up hospitals so they are limited in capacity to do other things is what we’re beginning to see again. 
 

But no second wave...?

[ri Alban]

14 minutes ago, Dazo said:

It isn’t just business that dies with lockdown. Lockdown isn’t a solution it’s a panic tactic to save Christmas. People are dying regardless including during lockdown so we need guidelines and soft restrictions that allow all businesses to be open. Shut down the businesses that are clearly and repeatedly breaking the guidelines. 

I don't disagree, but as I say they're trying to balance things and whatever they do will invariably make someone unhappy. 

If we could fund lockdown and manage families with better compassion. We may start to help ourselves. 

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I don't disagree, but as I say they're trying to balance things and whatever they do will invariably make someone unhappy. 

If we could fund lockdown and manage families with better compassion. We may start to help ourselves. 

Unless we lockdown until a vaccine is there it is going to a constant circle or closing down and opening up. Even if we funded the businesses through that the associated damage that brings is worse than a controlled but open environment imo. We need to invest the time and money creating a world where we live along side COVID until we have a vaccine, punish those businesses and individuals that are causing deliberate harm. Closing the doors and hiding isn’t the answer. People die every single day from various accidents, illness, injuries, infections and viruses, covid just needs added to the list and we need to learn to live and accept that. Yes it’s horrific for those that suffer just like it is for those who suffer from other things that kill us. 

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Where you hearing that? 

 

Think I seen on news hospitality ban in central belt to be extended, though suspect more some guidance will be given today after quick look on internet. 

3 Tier system comes into force on the 2nd of November. Approval required by msps. 

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Surprise surprise, Nicola can’t have a 3 tier system, she has to have 5 tiers. 
 

Just like ignoring the simple hands, face and space with her FACTS, she has to over complicate things. 

 

To be fair, 5 tiers is a better approach than the UK governments. A lot of areas dont even need to really be in Tier 1, yet there is no scope for that. Also some Tier 3 have gyms open and others don't as an example of local variation. It's not quite as simple as Boris likes to make out.

 

That said it's another example of the Scottish Government bringing much the same approach and measures with a few tweaks that the UK government they're only too happy to criticise, brought in weeks before them

Edited October 21, 2020 by Taffin

[ri Alban]

Just now, Dazo said:

Unless we lockdown until a vaccine is there it is going to a constant circle or closing down and opening up. Even if we funded the businesses through that the associated damage that brings is worse than a controlled but open environment imo. We need to invest the time and money creating a world where we live along side COVID until we have a vaccine, punish those businesses and individuals that are causing deliberate harm. Closing the doors and hiding isn’t the answer. People die every single day from various accidents, illness, injuries, infections and viruses, covid just needs added to the list and we need to learn to live and accept that. Yes it’s horrific for those that suffer just like it is for those who suffer from other things that kill us. 

True, but covid isn't self inflicted like some other diseases, accidents, etc... So do we just bar alkies, junkies, fatties, careless, Smokers, etc... Why should we care about anyone, really. 

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

To be fair, 5 tiers is a better approach than the UK governments. A lot of areas dont even need to really be in Tier 1, yet there is no scope for that. Also some Tier 3 have gyms open and others don't as an example of local variation. It's not quite as simple as Boris likes to make out.

 

That said it's another example of the Scottish Government bringing much the same approach and measures with a few tweaks that the UK government they're only too happy to criticise, brought in weeks before them

Didn’t the government say at the start of this that each tier as minimum requirements but there is scope for local regions imposing tighter restrictions if they felt it was needed within each tier ? Seems straightforward enough unless you just like having a pop at the government. 

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

To be fair, 5 tiers is a better approach than the UK governments. A lot of areas dont even need to really be in Tier 1, yet there is no scope for that. Also some Tier 3 have gyms open and others don't as an example of local variation. It's not quite as simple as Boris likes to make out.

 

That said it's another example of the Scottish Government bringing much the same approach and measures with a few tweaks that the UK government they're only too happy to criticise, brought in weeks before them

3 Tier from 2nd November. Ireland is 5 tier. But I don't have a problem with 5 tier or 3 Tier or 0 tier. Just explain it. I don't listen to Boris, he runs England's NHS and pandemic fight. And good luck to him. 

[Taffin]

Just now, Dazo said:

Didn’t the government say at the start of this that each tier as minimum requirements but there is scope for local regions imposing tighter restrictions if they felt it was needed within each tier ? Seems straightforward enough unless you just like having a pop at the government. 

 

The idea was so make the rules clearer. Yet you can go to the gym in Tier 3 Warrington, but you can't in Tier 3 Haydock. Sorry but that's nonsensical and not clear at all. You need to look up every local authority you enter to find out specifically what rules are in place.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

3 Tier from 2nd November. Ireland is 5 tier. But I don't have a problem with 5 tier or 3 Tier or 0 tier. Just explain it. I don't listen to Boris, he runs England's NHS and pandemic fight. And good luck to him. 

 

Totally agree on that 👍

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

True, but covid isn't self inflicted like some other diseases, accidents, etc... So do we just bar alkies, junkies, fatties, careless, Smokers, etc... Why should we care about anyone, really. 

We don’t bar those things but we do what we can then get on with it. All of those things will kill far more than covid but we can still eat, drink and smoke as much as we like. That’s why we should be focusing on creating an environment we can live with and punish those that deliberately put others at risk. 

[Dazo]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The idea was so make the rules clearer. Yet you can go to the gym in Tier 3 Warrington, but you can't in Tier 3 Haydock. Sorry but that's nonsensical and not clear at all. You need to look up every local authority you enter to find out specifically what rules are in place.

Why is it nonsensical ? If both those regions past the threshold that requires tier 3 restrictions but one is significantly worse than of course they should impose tighter restrictions. Unless of course you require a tier 4 and 5 ? Are you sort of the population that can’t think for itself, needs everything simplified and need your hand held through every step of this ? Or as I suspect just chucking stones at the government ? 
 

Just to add if we were currently under the governments tier system our hospitality sector may well be open. Glasgow and Lanarkshire numbers last time I checked were more than double ours yet we are under the same restrictions. That is nonsensical. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Dazo

[Governor Tarkin]

9 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Ah but we’re self employed subcontractors so we don’t count...... we’re not the real NHS, who got to down tools, close clinics and stop services .

The NHS that for some reason decided it could shut Children’s mental health services apart for the odd phone call.

Still, the applause was worth it as they were running close to capacity.

Though they always do, as Clinical Directors pursuing “efficiency” make damn sure there are no empty beds or wards , and if there are, they cut them

 

You would think that with a global pandemic looming any responsible government would endevour to ensure that adequate PPE was readily available for all key workers and services, private or otherwise, and not just those under the banner of the NHS (which did suffer shortages despite the insistance by some that it didn't).

 

Isn't that the type of action in the national interest that we should expect of those who we choose to lead us through times of national crisis?

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

We don’t bar those things but we do what we can then get on with it. All of those things will kill far more than covid but we can still eat, drink and smoke as much as we like. That’s why we should be focusing on creating an environment we can live with and punish those that deliberately put others at risk. 

Can I ask. I don't get this herd immunity thing, when has herd immunity ever worked. And who decides who's health is more important. 

 

Why is for instance a landlords life more important than a retired lollypop man. 

 

Let's try to contain for a wee while longer before we decide to let people die. 

 

I don't have any answers, but I'm not wearing this herd immunity myth, just so the majority can get 'on with it'. And herd immunity is fecking evil on the rest of the population who are not old and vulnerable. We have no idea what this thing can do, yet. 

 

Sorry, not having a go at anyone, but please, can we try to protect life for wee bit longer and have some better support for the economy. 

[Shanks said no]

33 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Where you hearing that? 

 

Think I seen on news hospitality ban in central belt to be extended, though suspect more some guidance will be given today after quick look on internet. 

Radio Scotland this morning

[The Internet]

5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

You would think that with a global pandemic looming any responsible government would endevour to ensure that adequate PPE was readily available for all key workers and services, private or otherwise, and not just those under the banner of the NHS (which did suffer shortages despite the insistance by some that it didn't).

 

Isn't that the type of action in the national interest that we should expect of those who we choose to lead us through times of national crisis?

 

I wouldn't expect any of the current govts to be able to provide the necessary health or financial support required to get people through this. Everything is too fractured and there's no cohesion or plan in place, just winging it and hope for the best. 

[Shanks said no]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

👍

Also headlined in Daily Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/20/scots-face-five-levels-lockdown-sturgeons-severe-alert-system/

 

[Governor Tarkin]

11 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

Just to add if we were currently under the governments tier system our hospitality sector may well be open. Glasgow and Lanarkshire numbers last time I checked were more than double ours yet we are under the same restrictions. That is nonsensical. 

 

Our hospitality sector will remain shut as long as the west coast one does to deter pint tourists.

 

42 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The wife and I both test negative. Back to work the morra. 

 

👍

 

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I see the ONS are saying there isn't a second wave as deaths are only at 1.5% above the 5 year average. 

 

It's still the the first wave, Seymour, it never went away.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

I wouldn't expect any of the current govts to be able to provide the necessary health or financial support required to get people through this. Everything is too fractured and there's no cohesion or plan in place, just winging it and hope for the best. 

 

Correct, and this far from unique to the UK.

There are still plenty of good people trying their absolute best though. 👍

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Our hospitality sector will remain shut as long as the west coast one does to deter pint tourists.

 

 

👍

 

 

It's still the the first wave, Seymour, it never went away.

Cheers GT. Appreciated. 👍

 

 

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Correct, and this far from unique to the UK.

There are still plenty of good people trying their absolute best though. 👍

I was about to say the same. More short comings of ability, than anything sinister, I'd hope. Well over here, anyway. I don't believe for a minute that the PM, or any of the FMs are not fighting with all the have to beat this. They just don't have the vaccine, to do so. And hopefully a vaccine can help the world be a better place. For just a second, at least. 

[Taffin]

20 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Why is it nonsensical ? If both those regions past the threshold that requires tier 3 restrictions but one is significantly worse than of course they should impose tighter restrictions. Unless of course you require a tier 4 and 5 ? Are you sort of the population that can’t think for itself, needs everything simplified and need your hand held through every step of this ? Or as I suspect just chucking stones at the government ? 
 

 

Being perfectly honest I couldn't give a stuff from a personal perspective but I'm trying to follow the rules. It makes no sense to me that gym in one place is open and a gym 5/10 miles away isn't despite probably have exactly the same catchment area. Nor does it make any sense to me that you need to check every single local authority rules before you go somewhere. It defeats the purpose of having 3 tiers because there isn't actually 3 tiers.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Just to add if we were currently under the governments tier system our hospitality sector may well be open. Glasgow and Lanarkshire numbers last time I checked were more than double ours yet we are under the same restrictions. That is nonsensical. 

 

Yours might be, yes. It does sound nonsensical.

[JudyJudyJudy]

43 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

True, but covid isn't self inflicted like some other diseases, accidents, etc... So do we just bar alkies, junkies, fatties, careless, Smokers, etc... Why should we care about anyone, really. 

Who are “ careless “ ? 

[Dazo]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Being perfectly honest I couldn't give a stuff from a personal perspective but I'm trying to follow the rules. It makes no sense to me that gym in one place is open and a gym 5/10 miles away isn't despite probably have exactly the same catchment area. Nor does it make any sense to me that you need to check every single local authority rules before you go somewhere. It defeats the purpose of having 3 tiers because there isn't actually 3 tiers.

 

 

 

Yours might be, yes. It does sound nonsensical.

Yep a lot of it makes no sense especially the open close open close circle. 

[SE16 3LN]

5 tiers, that'll simplify things. I remember when stay alert was too complicated for the FM.