Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[ri Alban]

Ireland go into lockdown at midnight Wednesday for 6 weeks. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by ri Alban

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

In my line of work I deal with a lot of elderly people. 

Back in March, like most people they were terrified and would only talk to you from behind their window.

Now, most of them aren't scared of the virus, they are more scared of what restrictions are going to be put on their lives

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, SectionFJambo said:

Back in March it was unknown and people only saw the news etc.

Now 7 months on they have seen it first hand or I suspect rather have not and are a lot less placid re it's impacts.

 

I'd hazard a guess most people know no one who has died of it and very few people who have had it. 

I know someone who died of it.... however he was  98 years old and was in hospital with pancreatic cancer but somehow also caught covid in hospital and it was on his death certificate. 

[vegas-voss]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Not surprised to see these lockdowns coming.  Scientists suggesting full blooded measures are more effective than targeted,  localised variations.  Even economists have said that full lockdowns are better in terms of longer term economic prospects.   It's coming to the whole of the UK.  

Have thought since lockdown was eased back in the summer that we were always going to be in lockdown again come winter.Easing restrictions was just like a pick me up to the economy and to boost morale imo.I just think we came out of everything too fast we were told coming out of lockdown would be a really really slow timescale of things being done but it all just seen to merge very quickly was the doors opened imo.

 

Would it have made any difference though I don't know probably not as they probably knew the virus was coming back winter time anyway so gave the public a break for a bit.

[vegas-voss]

Short term appeasement is now turning to resentment though.

[Nucky Thompson]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I know someone who died of it.... however he was  98 years old and was in hospital with pancreatic cancer but somehow also caught covid in hospital and it was on his death certificate. 

I know 2 people who died from covid, a 94yo and 95yo both with dementia.

Both were put into care homes not long after lockdown in March and both died in May.

Both of them tested positive, so no doubts about covid on their death certificate 

[SectionFJambo]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

I know 2 people who died from covid, a 94yo and 95yo both with dementia.

Both were put into care homes not long after lockdown in March and both died in May.

Both of them tested positive, so no doubts about covid on their death certificate 

 

Out of interest do you think that Covid was the cause of death and without Covid they would still be here?

[N Lincs Jambo]

9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

 

Cheers for sharing that photo James. The lady displaying the "Rather die of COVID than LONELINESS" placard is exactly the same as my business partner's father. He's in his 80s - his wife, who suffers from pretty advanced dementia, is in a "care" home (I'll come back to why I have put care in inverted commas later), - he has taken the stand that he wants what remains of his family round him. If he gets Covid and dies, then he gets Covid and dies. That is his choice and his alone. Personally I respect his decision and do not accept that any faceless bureaucrat, government official or police officer has the right to take that away from him.

 

Back to the "care" home. My business partner was actually allowed in to see his mother 3 weeks ago for the first time in 6 months. Her weight has plummeted from 14 stone to 7 stone. When she went into the home, yes she suffered from mental but not physical illness. She was agile and extremely mobile. In six short months she is now confined to a wheelchair. What has happened in these six short months? Nobody knows and I suspect nobody will ever know as she is not of sound mind and able to give chapter and verse, sadly. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Have thought since lockdown was eased back in the summer that we were always going to be in lockdown again come winter.Easing restrictions was just like a pick me up to the economy and to boost morale imo.I just think we came out of everything too fast we were told coming out of lockdown would be a really really slow timescale of things being done but it all just seen to merge very quickly was the doors opened imo.

 

Would it have made any difference though I don't know probably not as they probably knew the virus was coming back winter time anyway so gave the public a break for a bit.

 

The constantly reactive measures,  changes,  refinements,  new tier systems,  localised variations,  blah blah blah have failed.  It's too detailed,  too complicated,  too open to accusations of disparity.  People have turned off to it all.  Everyone seems to think they're paying the price compared to someone else.    

[SE16 3LN]

4 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

I think all opposition parties would attack the lack of funding generally. Here Nicola says she "hugely welcomes" the furlough scheme. In fact she likes it so much she wants it extended. https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/extend-the-scottish-furlough-scheme-18412470

 

Nothing political in the "stay alert" message either. The FM is completely correct to criticise something that had been widely condemned by all opposition parties and many scientists. The same message that a Tory minister could not explain on the Marr show.Why would the FM want Scotland to be encumbered by the incoherent nonsense that was emanating from Westminster? Far better to have your own protocols and remind the public every day as to what the were.

 

I do not know what is happening with lighthouse labs but i do know from personal experience that some of the UK run testing capacity has already been withdrawn in Scotland because it was not operating properly. Having now just looked at what happened it seems to me the politicising has come from Westminster. Even the BBC and that is my only source says the FM is "playing it down" and does not want "a war of words". She staed that the backlog was due to tests being rerouted out of Glasgow and it seems that is indeed the case. Imo it is not unreasonable for the FM to be asked why the numbers appeared to fall and give an explanation. This has happened several times before and the UKgov does not deny that it happened here. What's the problem? how is it politicking? How on earth could you make this an "independence cause"? How could this be backfiring on Indy? More importantly has the FM said anything that isn't true?

 

I wonder what resources you are referring to that were not available to the Scottish government. Are you not aware that the death rate in England appears to be 40% higher than Scotland? That's politicking, something the FM has assiduously avoided throughout the pandemic. 

 

 

If you can't understand what stay alert means you really shouldn't be in Politics, or anything that requires using your brain. If you believe the SG isn't using the virus as a tool I feel for you. Its off the scale on the gullible spectrum. The resources referred to the SG's Pandemic and Emergency plan. I spelt it out for you so why are you wondering.

[SE16 3LN]

3 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You're posting record on this thread is absolutely chronic. 

Still better than yours by a long way.

[Nucky Thompson]

Just now, SectionFJambo said:

 

Out of interest do you think that Covid was the cause of death and without Covid they would still be here?

It was definitely Covid that killed them. Apart from dementia, both were fairly fit. Well as fit as you can be in your 90's

 

[kila]

41 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

 

How would that tie in with the view of failing the care homes during the first wave?

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

44 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Want the NHS to be able to deal with non-covid work?   Best not overload the hospitals with covid then.   Very simple.

 

Your argument is an ill conceived cliche.   

You sound like Matt Hancock and you are admirably holding the official line. Hospitals were never at capacity in Spring and the Nightingale hospitals were barely used. The Nightingale up here saw not a single patient. The NHS are here to protect us, not the other way round. How about we treated patients because of need  rather than based on whether their illness is related to a shiny, new pathogen. Cancelling planned treatments, scans and procedures because of possible future demand was criminal. How would you feel if you presented at A & E with chest pains but were turned away because they wanted to keep beds available for possible patients later in the evening when the clubs pile out?? It's a ludicrous notion. And it all came about because of ridiculous modelling that spooked the govts into believing that somehow 80% of the population would be infected. The public inquiry should take no prisoners. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You sound like Matt Hancock and you are admirably holding the official line. Hospitals were never at capacity in Spring and the Nightingale hospitals were barely used. The Nightingale up here saw not a single patient. The NHS are here to protect us, not the other way round. How about we treated patients because of need  rather than based on whether their illness is related to a shiny, new pathogen. Cancelling planned treatments, scans and procedures because of possible future demand was criminal. How would you feel if you presented at A & E with chest pains but were turned away because they wanted to keep beds available for possible patients later in the evening when the clubs pile out?? It's a ludicrous notion. And it all came about because of ridiculous modelling that spooked the govts into believing that somehow 80% of the population would be infected. The public inquiry should take no prisoners. 

Enzo you are spot on. It’s almost like you can get/die from any disease under the sun just as long as it’s not Covid. Yet 7 months in there are still plenty who blindly accept anything and everything the lying *******s spout on their daily doom-monger.

[DETTY29]

21 minutes ago, kila said:

 

How would that tie in with the view of failing the care homes during the first wave?

 

Irony shouldn't be lost.

 

Nor how many people say they can't die quick enough, but fight to the bitter end.

[Weakened Offender]

41 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Still better than yours by a long way.

 

Yer erse, son. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

The focus of the NHS, according to their press briefings anyway, is to get everything back to normal as quickly as possible and that is now even as hospitals are getting busy in some areas with Covid patients. They are actively encouraging people to make sure they do use the NHS when required. 

Brian, it will take many months to get anywhere near the normal waiting times. A mate had an ENT consultation cancelled in April and was now told it would be months. He went private and was told by the consultant that he would  have waited "a couple of years" on the NHS. You know as well as I do that NHS briefings, like all govt pronouncements,  are full of spin. Procedures snd consultations were cancelled for months , even when operating theatres and out patient depts were empty. It was neglect on an industrial scale.. All in the name of putting Covid on a pedestal and treating virus patients ahead of thousands of others, equally deserving of treatment.  They do not appear to have learned anything and seem to be careering down the same road again. 

[communist]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Brian, it will take many months to get anywhere near the normal waiting times. A mate had an ENT consultation cancelled in April and was now told it would be months. He went private and was told by the consultant that he would  have waited "a couple of years" on the NHS. You know as well as I do that NHS briefings, like all govt pronouncements,  are full of spin. Procedures snd consultations were cancelled for months , even when operating theatres and out patient depts were empty. It was neglect on an industrial scale.. All in the name of putting Covid on a pedestal and treating virus patients ahead of thousands of others, equally deserving of treatment.  They do not appear to have learned anything and seem to be careering down the same road again. 

 

Totally agree, why everyone has such a hard on for Covid, whilst everything else is pushed to the back burner, i'll never understand. I'm finding it all just totally bizarre. 

 

I also find I'm quite often met with hostility with certain people, if I dare to question anything. People are just lapping whatever the government tells them without question or hesitation.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

Cheers for sharing that photo James. The lady displaying the "Rather die of COVID than LONELINESS" placard is exactly the same as my business partner's father. He's in his 80s - his wife, who suffers from pretty advanced dementia, is in a "care" home (I'll come back to why I have put care in inverted commas later), - he has taken the stand that he wants what remains of his family round him. If he gets Covid and dies, then he gets Covid and dies. That is his choice and his alone. Personally I respect his decision and do not accept that any faceless bureaucrat, government official or police officer has the right to take that away from him.

 

Back to the "care" home. My business partner was actually allowed in to see his mother 3 weeks ago for the first time in 6 months. Her weight has plummeted from 14 stone to 7 stone. When she went into the home, yes she suffered from mental but not physical illness. She was agile and extremely mobile. In six short months she is now confined to a wheelchair. What has happened in these six short months? Nobody knows and I suspect nobody will ever know as she is not of sound mind and able to give chapter and verse, sadly. 

Shocking . Older adults have been so badly disrespected through this time and their views not been listened to .

[The Internet]

It is a shame governments didn't react like this when there was a chance of slowing climate change tbf. 

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Mauricio Pinilla said:

It is a shame governments didn't react like this when there was a chance of slowing climate change tbf. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

I know this may be .” black mirror “ territory but if we are still on a form of lockdown in March 2021 , should we not hold referendum for either continuation of lockdowns or “ herd immunity “ and open everything up ? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, communist said:

 

Totally agree, why everyone has such a hard on for Covid, whilst everything else is pushed to the back burner, i'll never understand. I'm finding it all just totally bizarre. 

 

I also find I'm quite often met with hostility with certain people, if I dare to question anything. People are just lapping whatever the government tells them without question or hesitation.

You're right Communist. It is utterly bizarre. It's frightening how many have become effectively brainwashed by constant messaging and scaremongering for 7 months now. The country needs a grown up conversation and the economy needs a kick start.

[communist]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

They love to have the responsibility for actually living taken away from them.

 

Can only use Amazon and Netflix? For some, that's a result.

 

It's sad that despite it being quite funny, you are probably correct.

[N Lincs Jambo]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Shocking . Older adults have been so badly disrespected through this time and their views not been listened to .

Yep and that’s without going into the DNR notices placed on the elderly in the spring.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Great idea.

 

Can we add a question on whether or not to hang Johnson and Sturgeon together or on separate days? 

Yes that can be the secondary question 😂

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

Cheers for sharing that photo James. The lady displaying the "Rather die of COVID than LONELINESS" placard is exactly the same as my business partner's father. He's in his 80s - his wife, who suffers from pretty advanced dementia, is in a "care" home (I'll come back to why I have put care in inverted commas later), - he has taken the stand that he wants what remains of his family round him. If he gets Covid and dies, then he gets Covid and dies. That is his choice and his alone. Personally I respect his decision and do not accept that any faceless bureaucrat, government official or police officer has the right to take that away from him.

 

Back to the "care" home. My business partner was actually allowed in to see his mother 3 weeks ago for the first time in 6 months. Her weight has plummeted from 14 stone to 7 stone. When she went into the home, yes she suffered from mental but not physical illness. She was agile and extremely mobile. In six short months she is now confined to a wheelchair. What has happened in these six short months? Nobody knows and I suspect nobody will ever know as she is not of sound mind and able to give chapter and verse, sadly. 

That's a truly shocking story of neglect, N.Lincs

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You're right Communist. It is utterly bizarre. It's frightening how many have become effectively brainwashed by constant messaging and scaremongering for 7 months now. The country needs a grown up conversation and the economy needs a kick start.

Yes you just cAnt escape it , listening to Ella Fitzgerald on YouTube fair enjoying iuntil Leitch voice came on telling me yet about FACTS ! Fair put a damper on my day 

[N Lincs Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's a truly shocking story of neglect, N.Lincs

It is Enzo. It is separate from the discussion but combined. Separate in that care homes should always be looking after the people in their care but combined as the current circumstances mean that they can shield themselves from scrutiny which is pretty disgusting.

[N Lincs Jambo]

13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I know this may be .” black mirror “ territory but if we are still on a form of lockdown in March 2021 , should we not hold referendum for either continuation of lockdowns or “ herd immunity “ and open everything up ? 

We certainly should but I fear that this will only happen if the populace as a whole stops conforming with the bullshit. They are certainly not going to give it to us unless they are forced.

 

The Liverpool gym owners have shown the way. It’s now up to the rest of the country to wake up and reclaim our lives.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

We certainly should but I fear that this will only happen if the populace as a whole stops conforming with the bullshit. They are certainly not going to give it to us unless they are forced.

 

The Liverpool gym owners have shown the way. It’s now up to the rest of the country to wake up and reclaim our lives.

👍👍

[coconut doug]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You've seriously been trawling for 2 days looking for the nosocomial figures that I provided on Sat. I quote "46% of older patients tested positive after 14 days in hospital....felt likely to represent nosocomial infection". Not quite sure what was so surprising about that?? The majority of deaths have occurred in care homes and a large number in hospital anong patients who caught the virus there.  That is where is it spreads and where resources should be targetted. Closing hospitality is a nonsense and Sturgeon will find herself under huge pressure if common sense decisions about this sector are not taken later this week. Other countries are looking at k number now, using backward tracing, concentrating on where clusters occur and who are the super spreaders. It is now thought that 80% of positive cases do not infect anyone else, but we are still stuck behind the curve, fretting about r numbers and nonsensical lock downs

 

No i haven't been trawling but i did take some time to read the article so that i could understand it. You could not be more wrong if you set out to be so. You are telling us above that  "46% of older patients tested positive after 14 days in hospital....felt likely to represent nosocomial infection". and you are right that, was his finding. 46% of his sample of 222 patients who were at or near the end of life in hospital at the beginning of the pandemic caught Covid in hospital prior to their death.. That is a totally different to your statement which said "Back in March/April 50% of over 65s that caught the virus, were infected in hospital.". Either you are making stuff up or you do not understand statistics but i suppose it could be both.

  You are now telling us  The majority of deaths have occurred in care homes and a large number in hospital anong patients who caught the virus there.  This too is nonsense the figure for care homes is 46.2%. You don't know how many caught the virus in hospital, you are just making it up. 

 Why do you think so many countries are closing hospitality if it's a nonsense?

[Weakened Offender]

17 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

No i haven't been trawling but i did take some time to read the article so that i could understand it. You could not be more wrong if you set out to be so. You are telling us above that  "46% of older patients tested positive after 14 days in hospital....felt likely to represent nosocomial infection". and you are right that, was his finding. 46% of his sample of 222 patients who were at or near the end of life in hospital at the beginning of the pandemic caught Covid in hospital prior to their death.. That is a totally different to your statement which said "Back in March/April 50% of over 65s that caught the virus, were infected in hospital.". Either you are making stuff up or you do not understand statistics but i suppose it could be both.

  You are now telling us  The majority of deaths have occurred in care homes and a large number in hospital anong patients who caught the virus there.  This too is nonsense the figure for care homes is 46.2%. You don't know how many caught the virus in hospital, you are just making it up. 

 Why do you think so many countries are closing hospitality if it's a nonsense?

 

He's been making up shite for the past 4 months and, even worse, there's a handful of morons who lap it up. It's bizarre. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

No i haven't been trawling but i did take some time to read the article so that i could understand it. You could not be more wrong if you set out to be so. You are telling us above that  "46% of older patients tested positive after 14 days in hospital....felt likely to represent nosocomial infection". and you are right that, was his finding. 46% of his sample of 222 patients who were at or near the end of life in hospital at the beginning of the pandemic caught Covid in hospital prior to their death.. That is a totally different to your statement which said "Back in March/April 50% of over 65s that caught the virus, were infected in hospital.". Either you are making stuff up or you do not understand statistics but i suppose it could be both.

  You are now telling us  The majority of deaths have occurred in care homes and a large number in hospital anong patients who caught the virus there.  This too is nonsense the figure for care homes is 46.2%. You don't know how many caught the virus in hospital, you are just making it up. 

 Why do you think so many countries are closing hospitality if it's a nonsense?

Regardless of how you twist it, 46% of older patients who were in hospital, back then, were infected in hospital.  A truly shocking stat. Of course,, like all surveys, ONS, whatever, it is based on a sample, but across several hospitals. That was the figure I quoted on Sat. So, when you hear the FM read out the number of hospital admissions each day, be aware that a large percentage will have been infected after admission. 

If you've got any evidence to prove high infection rates in hospitality, then I would be delighted to see it. The govt could use back tracing to get a more accurate picture but then it would prove their measures to be useless. Other govts around Europe also opened nightclubs, for example, so not quite an accurate comparison.  I suspect though that they do not have any evidence of transmission either and are just wanting to be seen to do something, anything.

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Weakened Offender said:

 

He's been making up shite for the past 4 months and, even worse, there's a handful of morons who lap it up. It's bizarre. 

Another fully paid up member of the Covidian cult, I see. Rational thought being the biggest casualty. It's sad to see gullible folk being brainwashed 

[Enzo Chiefo]

23 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

We certainly should but I fear that this will only happen if the populace as a whole stops conforming with the bullshit. They are certainly not going to give it to us unless they are forced.

 

The Liverpool gym owners have shown the way. It’s now up to the rest of the country to wake up and reclaim our lives.

👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

Was the survey not just of one part of one hospital?

No, it involved several wards, 11 iirc, across various hospitals in the West.

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Another fully paid up member of the Covidian cult, I see. Rational thought being the biggest casualty. It's sad to see gullible folk being brainwashed 

 

You need help. 

[Back to 2005]

46 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes that can be the secondary question 😂

Sturgeon always likes to be a day ahead of Johnson so we can stick with that tradition.

[Taffin]

It's starting to feel a bit like there's no point to anything anymore. Why work and earn money when there's nothing fun left to spend it on. No holidays, no visiting family, no nights out, no going to the football, no spontaneous meals out, no shopping trips, no point in nice clothes, no pub quiz. In many respects I'm glad some of those things don't exist/matter anymore but others are sad to live without. It feels like it's get up, work, go to the gym, sit on the sofa, sleep, get up, work and repeat and the weekend brings little respite. It was okay in the summer when being outside was nice but now it's dark and cold and only going to get worse.

 

It's great we're saving lives and all that but the current set up isn't living. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You need help. 

😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

It's starting to feel a bit like there's no point to anything anymore. Why work and earn money when there's nothing fun left to spend it on. No holidays, no visiting family, no nights out, no going to the football, no spontaneous meals out, no shopping trips, no point in nice clothes, no pub quiz. In many respects I'm glad some of those things don't exist/matter anymore but others are sad to live without. It feels like it's get up, work, go to the gym, sit on the sofa, sleep, get up, work and repeat and the weekend brings little respite. It was okay in the summer when being outside was nice but now it's dark and cold and only going to get worse.

 

It's great we're saving lives and all that but the current set up isn't living. 

Totally empathise with this 

[Geddyalexneil]

Just something from my own experience.

I have both cardiac and respiratory problems and my meds have been causing lots of side issues sadly.

I am kind of in limbo as I am not seeing my specialists in person. Even if I did there would be no point trying to change my coronary meds as until I am able to get out more freely we won't know how effective they will actually be.

I understand it even though it is very frustrating!

However a couple of weeks ago I was getting quite a bit of chest pain along with some other symptoms that suggested heart issues were flaring up. I spoke to my own local surgery (after I went online giving my symptoms I got an immediate "call the surgery" so I did) and they contacted the hospital and I was told to get there as soon as possible.

I was in the area where you are first seen and after some tests was admitted right away.

Luckily they were able to give me some extra meds and double up some things that I was on and were able to send me home quite quickly.

After getting Covid tested and being found clear I got home.

So just from my personal experience I can say that if you do have an actual emergency  (or something that very much looks like one) the NHS will get you in and treated. I know that surgeries are miles behind which is no doubt even more frustrating than my circumstances to those in need but they are still seeing patients in the Edinburgh hospitals for definite for things like (potential) heart attacks etc.

As I said just my own experience. I am grateful to everyone that is doing their best to take all the precautions as I am someone who has been in intensive care a couple of times before and knows how much those beds are needed for those emergency times. By folks wearing masks, keeping distance etc (even if it seems a pain in the ass) then those heart attack/stroke/diabetic patients who suddenly need that care can actually get it at that point.

Thank you for reading. I know it is quite a long post.

 

[Back to 2005]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

It's starting to feel a bit like there's no point to anything anymore. Why work and earn money when there's nothing fun left to spend it on. No holidays, no visiting family, no nights out, no going to the football, no spontaneous meals out, no shopping trips, no point in nice clothes, no pub quiz. In many respects I'm glad some of those things don't exist/matter anymore but others are sad to live without. It feels like it's get up, work, go to the gym, sit on the sofa, sleep, get up, work and repeat and the weekend brings little respite. It was okay in the summer when being outside was nice but now it's dark and cold and only going to get worse.

 

It's great we're saving lives and all that but the current set up isn't living. 

Think that's where most of us are. Whether we are even saving lives is debatable.

[Robbofan99]

From Twitter 

You’re lying to them and they know it. 

Here’s part of Andy Burhams statement tonight...Boom! 

“Finally, we are disappointed that the Government has today sought to raise public concern about the NHS in Greater Manchester with selective statistics.

“Greater Manchester’s ICU occupancy rate is not abnormal for this time of year and is comparable to the occupancy rate in October 2019.” 

[Robbofan99]

31 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Think that's where most of us are. Whether we are even saving lives is debatable.

 

[A Boy Named Crow]

12 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Apologies, I must have misinterpreted your spoilt children comments. 

 

The virus is going to have an impact on the economy whatever the approach. NZ has responded well and eradicated it, but are are entering their worst recession since 1987. I don't think there is a win win solution although certain actions may have made things worse at various points since March.

Australia is in its first recession since the 90s, but now has very little covid in the population. This means they have been able to ease restrictions and life is pretty free again, although internal travel to Queensland and WA is still off the cards, but that's up to them. In the longer term, you will probably see travel between countries with low covid numbers return, there's already a Hong Kong - Singapore bubble for example.

 

The "spoilt children" comment was in reference to the UK government and public unwillingness to really do the hard thing short term, to reap the potential benefit long term. The failure to close borders  to behave responsibly in public etc is baffling to watch from the outside  and is making things much worse in the long term.

 

That was my point 

Edited October 19, 2020 by A Boy Named Crow

[Weakened Offender]

1 hour ago, Geddyalexneil said:

Just something from my own experience.

I have both cardiac and respiratory problems and my meds have been causing lots of side issues sadly.

I am kind of in limbo as I am not seeing my specialists in person. Even if I did there would be no point trying to change my coronary meds as until I am able to get out more freely we won't know how effective they will actually be.

I understand it even though it is very frustrating!

However a couple of weeks ago I was getting quite a bit of chest pain along with some other symptoms that suggested heart issues were flaring up. I spoke to my own local surgery (after I went online giving my symptoms I got an immediate "call the surgery" so I did) and they contacted the hospital and I was told to get there as soon as possible.

I was in the area where you are first seen and after some tests was admitted right away.

Luckily they were able to give me some extra meds and double up some things that I was on and were able to send me home quite quickly.

After getting Covid tested and being found clear I got home.

So just from my personal experience I can say that if you do have an actual emergency  (or something that very much looks like one) the NHS will get you in and treated. I know that surgeries are miles behind which is no doubt even more frustrating than my circumstances to those in need but they are still seeing patients in the Edinburgh hospitals for definite for things like (potential) heart attacks etc.

As I said just my own experience. I am grateful to everyone that is doing their best to take all the precautions as I am someone who has been in intensive care a couple of times before and knows how much those beds are needed for those emergency times. By folks wearing masks, keeping distance etc (even if it seems a pain in the ass) then those heart attack/stroke/diabetic patients who suddenly need that care can actually get it at that point.

Thank you for reading. I know it is quite a long post.

 

 

Good luck pal and thanks for sharing your experience. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Good luck pal and thanks for sharing your experience. 

 

And the same from me. For some of us it 's more than just an inconvenience.