Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Victorian]

It's a comprehensive and structured framework and pretty straightforward to navigate and understand.    With further finer details to follow.     Here we have a leader who understands and is able to explain the entire plan in full detail.    Without any party political points,    the calibre of this leader is light years ahead of the Westminster jobholder.     The Westminster government has a leader and the governing party chose that leader for their party.     He's absurdly inadequate compared to Sturgeon.    If's not possible to avoid that appearing like a political point but there is only one Westminster PM to compare with.

 

Seems like a good document to be able to follow.    There are no set dates to each potential change because it's all based on the epidemiological considerations.     Flexibility to delay or even bring forward specifics from the 3 week review framework.

[Brighton Jambo]

No schools back till August, that’s it I’m done with this virus.  And then blended learning, that’s just a disaster too.  
 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Another big mistake was the level that fines were pegged at - £60? Slovakia which is a lot poorer than UK had 2000EUR or 2 years in jail! - result: 6 deaths.

I'm sure there were plenty of variables at work in Slovakia.

[Spellczech]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

People praising the Scottish Government must have missed the care homes deaths. Or maybe care less than for other things. 

Yeah seems like NHS Scotland don't have anyone capable of independent thought at top levels. They towed the line of the decisions made by SAGE and COBRA far too unthinkingly early doors. Now all they have is the consensus defence...

[Brighton Jambo]

I agree with those who say she is far more clear and articulate that Boris.  She’s definitely far more impressive.

 

But in regards to the actual changes it’s very similar to the UK government approach just presented in different way.  Schools approach is different but was always going to be given Scottish schools finish for summer a month before England. 
 

did she announce today’s figures for Scotland I can’t see it anywhere? 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I'm sure there were plenty of variables at work in Slovakia.

You mean that they have 5 land borders where we are an island? Sure I think they took it more seriously as a result, took more decisive action and got burned far less as a result...But that is the truth of it, all the countries that saw the danger and acted decisively and strongly have done better. That is an undeniable pattern, no matter how many "variables" there are.

[vegas-voss]

12 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

No schools back till August, that’s it I’m done with this virus.  And then blended learning, that’s just a disaster too.  
 

 

It's sensible and she has took the time to speak to health advisors and unions instead of just saying right schools back.

[Taffin]

I like the 'unrestricted outdoor exercise'...with the following restrictions part 😂

 

It's a good document and an excellent piece of work but it's also still filled with things that don't make a lot of sense. It does provide hope and route to return to normality 👍

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree with those who say she is far more clear and articulate that Boris.  She’s definitely far more impressive.

 

But in regards to the actual changes it’s almost a literal copy and paste from the UK government approach just presented in different way.  Schools approach is different but was always going to be given Scottish schools finish for summer a month before England. 
 

did she announce today’s figures for Scotland I can’t see it anywhere? 

 

Really?    Care to post a link to the UK gvt's framework / route map?

 

To compare them.    

[jambogaza]

24 minutes ago, weehammy said:

We had a leader who was even better than President Sturgeon in front of the cameras. His name was Tony Blair. Remind me how that ended. 

 

He left office in a planned way and Gordon Brown took over as had been planned for several years?

 

He divides opinion but his political career did not end in for example a catastrophic election defeat.

 

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

You mean that they have 5 land borders where we are an island? Sure I think they took it more seriously as a result, took more decisive action and got burned far less as a result...But that is the truth of it, all the countries that saw the danger and acted decisively and strongly have done better. That is an undeniable pattern, no matter how many "variables" there are.

I don't disagree but some Nation states had large scale exposure very early on. That is also undeniable.

[SE16 3LN]

Footballs back as it was in August, yippee. 

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Really?    Care to post a link to the UK gvt's framework / route map?

 

To compare them.    

That’s why I used the phrase different format?? The substantive content is essentially the same one is a document one is a framework.  
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy

[vegas-voss]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Footballs back as it was in August, yippee. 

Maybe.Remember not all measures will start when each phase begins she said.

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I don't disagree but some Nation states had large scale exposure very early on. That is also undeniable.

Yep - Italy and Spain, perhaps even Singapore and S Korea. UK had a PM who was shaking hands with people with Covid whilst these countries were ringing the alarm bells for everyone else!

[TheOak88]

21 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

No schools back till August, that’s it I’m done with this virus.  And then blended learning, that’s just a disaster too.  
 

 

 

The blended learning is gonna be a nightmare for parents in terms of allowing them to get back to work. It will undoubtedly have a negative knock on effect for the economy as well. 

[hughesie27]

6 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Footballs back as it was in August, yippee. 

Not with fans though.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

That’s why I used the phrase different format?? The substantive content is essentially the same one is a document one is a framework.  
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy

 

Thanks.   

[TheOak88]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Maybe.Remember not all measures will start when each phase begins she said.

 

Yep, I think people are gonna read this as 3 weeks between each Phase, which it won’t be. 

 

Can see the transition from Phase 1-2 happening fairly quickly. But transition from Phase 2-3 and 3-4 will highly likely be longer than 3 weeks. 

[hughesie27]

Do we think the meeting up with 1 household thing means 1 household at a time or 1 household for the duration of phase 1?

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Thanks.   

I don’t disagree with you by the way that the Scottish governments layout is far more user friendly than UK’s and easier to understand.  
 

Think I may have sent wrong link before: 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884760/Our_plan_to_rebuild_The_UK_Government_s_COVID-19_recovery_strategy.pdf

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, hughesie27 said:

Do we think the meeting up with 1 household thing means 1 household at a time or 1 household for the duration of phase 1?

I think it means at a time, that’s how I am taking it anyway!! Otherwise I have to chose between two sets of grandparents and that’s not a fight I want with my wife! 

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Yep, I think people are gonna read this as 3 weeks between each Phase, which it won’t be. 

 

Can see the transition from Phase 1-2 happening fairly quickly. But transition from Phase 2-3 and 3-4 will highly likely be longer than 3 weeks. 

Aye I would agree with that.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Was there any mention of when hotels could open up?

 

[vegas-voss]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Do we think the meeting up with 1 household thing means 1 household at a time or 1 household for the duration of phase 1?

Bit hard choosing between two sets of grand parents if not.Maybe something that we will find out from questions she receives in the lead up to next week.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Yep, I think people are gonna read this as 3 weeks between each Phase, which it won’t be. 

 

Can see the transition from Phase 1-2 happening fairly quickly. But transition from Phase 2-3 and 3-4 will highly likely be longer than 3 weeks. 

 

There's more flexibility than that.    The transition between phases does not mean every area moves at the same time.    Sturgeon confirmed that one area could be in stage 2, 3 or 4 while other areas are in different stages.    Some changes may take place in advance of the next 3 week review.     Everything is guided by the epidemiology.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I don’t disagree with you by the way that the Scottish governments layout is far more user friendly than UK’s and easier to understand.  
 

Think I may have sent wrong link before: 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884760/Our_plan_to_rebuild_The_UK_Government_s_COVID-19_recovery_strategy.pdf

 

I think the crucial part is it's accessibility.     Once more,   not a political point,   very importantly it is and will be served and backed up by someone who understands,   takes a keen interest in and is able to explain the details of it.

 

The PM couldn't explain his way through a train ticket.

[TheOak88]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

There's more flexibility than that.    The transition between phases does not mean every area moves at the same time.    Sturgeon confirmed that one area could be in stage 2, 3 or 4 while other areas are in different stages.    Some changes may take place in advance of the next 3 week review.     Everything is guided by the epidemiology.

 

Doubt it will work like that, mate. Can’t see them say moving Glasgow to Stage 3 and keeping Edinburgh in Stage 2 (or visa versa). If there were gonna move Lockdown at different pace within the population doing based on geographic lines wouldn’t be the best option. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I think it means at a time, that’s how I am taking it anyway!! Otherwise I have to chose between two sets of grandparents and that’s not a fight I want with my wife! 

Good luck with that.

I’ve only got the wife’s mother-in-law to contend with.

That sentence is deliberate 😉.

[Victorian]

Just now, TheOak88 said:

 

Doubt it will work like that, mate. Can’t see them say moving Glasgow to Stage 3 and keeping Edinburgh in Stage 2 (or visa versa). If there were gonna move Lockdown at different pace within the population doing based on geographic lines wouldn’t be the best option. 

 

Not geographical areas.   Areas of life.   Work,   school,  leisure,  family,   etc.

 

Areas can move separately.

[Nucky Thompson]

22 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Really?    Care to post a link to the UK gvt's framework / route map?

 

To compare them.    

The UK has dates on their phases and gives people something to aim at if all goes well.

Scotland has phases that we might never reach or not have a clue when they are happening

[indianajones]

Chalk and cheese compared to that clown in London. 

 

Folk picking holes in it cant help but bringing whatever agenda they have against the Scottish Government up at any opportunity. 

[ri Alban]

30 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree with those who say she is far more clear and articulate that Boris.  She’s definitely far more impressive.

 

But in regards to the actual changes it’s very similar to the UK government approach just presented in different way.  Schools approach is different but was always going to be given Scottish schools finish for summer a month before England. 
 

did she announce today’s figures for Scotland I can’t see it anywhere? 

37 dead, ICU down 2 can't remember the rest.

 

 

Oh and I'm back at work on the 1st of June. 

 

 

[Victorian]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

The UK has dates on their phases and gives people something to aim at if all goes well.

Scotland has phases that we might never reach or not have a clue when they are happening

 

Because it's all dependent on the "if it all goes well" part.

 

Suggesting dates but dependent on it going well could create confusion or offer a false hope.     We all have something to aim for.    Things will happen faster if people maintain social distancing disciplines. 

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The UK has dates on their phases and gives people something to aim at if all goes well.

Scotland has phases that we might never reach or not have a clue when they are happening

Your promise to @jack D and coke lasted long .

Edited May 21, 2020 by ri Alban

[hmfcbilly]

29 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Footballs back as it was in August, yippee. 

Surely not. How could you have thousands of people in a stadium sat way closer than kids in a classroom but kids will only return to school part time?

[felix]

20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Was there any mention of when hotels could open up?

 

Phase 3:

"Relaxation of restrictions on accommodation providers (including hotels, B&Bs and holiday homes)".

When hotels eventually reopen ; their bar/restaurant operations wont be able to operate as normal.

Edited May 21, 2020 by felix

[ri Alban]

53 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

People praising the Scottish Government must have missed the care homes deaths. Or maybe care less than for other things. 

No one missed it, but I'm guessing you also missed English and Welsh care home figures. 

[Brighton Jambo]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

37 dead, ICU down 2 can't remember the rest.

 

 

Oh and I'm back at work on the 1st of June. 

 

 

Good news all round.

 

(by that I mean trends in right direction not 37 deaths and your work of course!) 

[vegas-voss]

 

5 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

Surely not. How could you have thousands of people in a stadium sat way closer than kids in a classroom but kids will only return to school part time?

It's not saying it will be , only  that it's in phase 4.Phase 4 could last month's and months and football crowds might be at the very end of that.

Edited May 21, 2020 by vegas-voss

[hmfcbilly]

1 minute ago, vegas-voss said:

 

It's not saying it will be only it's in phase 4.Phase 4 could last month's and months and football crowds might be at the very end of that.

👍. I suspect they will be, certainly in scotland anyway going by sturgeons actions so far

[Beni]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The graph shows that Sweden had a lower peak, and flattened the curve quicker and it confirms it has had a lower aggregate number of deaths from the virus to date. The "current" daily rate is I suspect  statistically insignificant from that of the UK (with UK daily rate looking a bit more erratic). As I have said no-one will know, for perhaps a year or longer, whether Sweden's approach is better or worse than ours. In perhaps a year we can judge, taking everything (covid 19 and other impacts). But  if nothing else Sweden is an interesting "control" in the experiment (and we are all experimenting). 

 

But Sweden have a similar death rate to the UK without a lockdown. I can't see how the UK could have achieved anything like the Swedes given what the UK R number was pre lockdown. Sweden have so far managed to avoid exponential growth in infections, the UK didn't.

[Nucky Thompson]

8 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Your promise to @jack D and coke lasted long .

That was hardly political mate 

[EIEIO]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

People praising the Scottish Government must have missed the care homes deaths. Or maybe care less than for other things. 

Shows why health services and/or healthcare should never be privatised. My uncle was in a care home in West Lothian before his death 7 years ago it cost £950 per week plus a contribution from the state. If these *******s running the homes cant spare a few quid for PPE and infectoion contro they should be jailed.

[Nucky Thompson]

12 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

 

 

 

Oh and I'm back at work on the 1st of June. 

 

 

Ah well that's good. Is it all building sites opening on 1st June?

[vegas-voss]

3 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

👍. I suspect they will be, certainly in scotland anyway going by sturgeons actions so far

I take it as phase 4 being the new normal and all other stages leading to the new normal.The new normal could last 18 months going by how scientist reckon this virus could be about for at least two years.So football with crowds could come in anytime in phase 4.

[Brighton Jambo]

24 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Chalk and cheese compared to that clown in London. 

 

Folk picking holes in it cant help but bringing whatever agenda they have against the Scottish Government up at any opportunity. 

That’s not true.  It completely okay to have questions where it’s not clear that doesn’t mean they are political point scoring.

 

for example I have a nursery age child and it says “fully outdoor nursery provision” In phase one.  I really need to know what it’s happening with my kids because of work but that doesn’t help me.  Does it mean the nursery she goes to is open if they only use the garden or does it mean some other type of nursery provision I don’t know about where it’s all outdoor.  
 

I need to know, I accept more details will come but I currently don’t know, it’s frustrating that I don’t know and that has nothing to do with political persuasion.  

[graygo]

28 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Shows why health services and/or healthcare should never be privatised. My uncle was in a care home in West Lothian before his death 7 years ago it cost £950 per week plus a contribution from the state. If these *******s running the homes cant spare a few quid for PPE and infectoion contro they should be jailed.

 

The government took control of the supply of PPE.

[indianajones]

19 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

That’s not true.  It completely okay to have questions where it’s not clear that doesn’t mean they are political point scoring.

 

for example I have a nursery age child and it says “fully outdoor nursery provision” In phase one.  I really need to know what it’s happening with my kids because of work but that doesn’t help me.  Does it mean the nursery she goes to is open if they only use the garden or does it mean some other type of nursery provision I don’t know about where it’s all outdoor.  
 

I need to know, I accept more details will come but I currently don’t know, it’s frustrating that I don’t know and that has nothing to do with political persuasion.  

 

Was not specially aimed at you Brighton, sorry. Just some other rise-able comments. 

 

I would say in your case the nursery need to risk assess and work out how they can provide care for children again. The government can apply these guides but i'd say its up to the business to implement them. Not entirely sure how nurseries can reopen and maintain social distancing mind you. Even with a garden! 

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, indianajones said:

 

Was not specially aimed at you Brighton, sorry. Just some other rise-able comments. 

 

I would say in your case the nursery need to risk assess and work out how they can provide care for children again. The government can apply these guides but i'd say its up to the business to implement them. Not entirely sure how nurseries can reopen and maintain social distancing mind you. Even with a garden! 

They are trialing using face shields  somewhere in England just now.Not sure how it works only seen it as coming up later on the news then had to switch off.