Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Taffin]

Interesting approach.

[Unknown user]

33 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

What do you mean what’s it based on? As stated UBI wasn’t used by anyone as a solution to the economic crisis. As its not the right solution🤷🏻‍♂️
 

So basic economic principals I guess. This isn’t an discussion about pros or cons of UBi, it’s a discussion about whether it’s appropriate in a the COVID situation. The suggestion was introducing UBI was a better solution than furlough.

 

The principal of furlough was to freeze the economy and crucially the employment sector. The idea being that when we unlock, everything could restart as it had been left. The reason to do this was to mitigate damage to the economy through lack of growth/contraction. If you introduced UBI over a furlough scheme you don’t freeze the economy. You support most the economy in a fundamentally new way, it’s not employers but govt. Even though the govt shook the magic money tree, it maintained the existing employment and economic structures. That was crucial. 
 

You introduce UBI you break those connections at the wrong time. People would fundamentally be leaving employment, business can’t employ people if they can’t pay them. 🤷🏻‍♂️Furlough addressed that issue UBI does not, it actually encourage the opposite of freezing.
 

So when the economy comes to restart, it can’t as people aren’t in place to enable it. All this does is prevent bounce back growth that we have witnessed or at the very least it reduces it massively. The economy and labour markets could never balance due to the time period and lockdown in itself. 
 

Even introducing financial schemes to protect business, doesn’t maintain the employment and economic structures. That’s was the key to restarting the economy. Remember the initial concern around shut downs was preventing mass unemployment, unemployment is horrendous issue for economies to deal with, never mind the social consequences. 
 

UBI would add massively to the problems with demand unlocking, labour shortages due to brexit and extra cost COVID brings, as you artificially reduce the cost of money. Inflationary pressure would increase pretty significantly. This combined with the fact that the economy couldn’t run/restart as pre lockdown means you don’t get economic growth. The lack of economic growth would then in return likely lead to increase unemployment; I’m unsure how you would prevent that. That would be stagflation, which I personally think we could see in the next 18months anyway. 
 

I really don’t get the argument for UBi being a better solution to COVID than furlough.  I see no way the economy could  have been frozen without a furlough type scheme. What type of steps are you suggesting? 
 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ensuring everyone has a income, that was one of the things that furlough was designed to do 🤷🏻‍♂️ along with the existing welfare systems, People fell through the cracks as they would with a UBI. Whilst, UBI would be nowhere near the same level furlough was tbh, so loads more people would lost out in reality.

 

Can you tell me why UBi would have been a better solution than furlough? The fact that economies introduced broadly similar measures is for good reason. Its the least damaging approach and one that has been successful by most metrics. It’s worked much better than I anticipated tbh, especially after multiple lockdowns. 

(I wrote a much longer and detailed post but decided against it, this is the short version 😂)

 

 

You're basing it on it's not the right solution.

 

I don't agree with much of the assumption, for example the cost. One of the beauties of UBI is it takes out the massive cost of means testing and huge swathes of administration, it can be done through national insurance channels so no legal citizens are left behind and it's much harder to defraud.

 

Massive amounts have been wasted with fraud, administration, and people still got left behind while others cashed in. That's a failure.

 

But the main point is put people first, then let's think about how the economy works with that. That didn't happen because priorities are ****ed up. 

[Taffin]

20 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're basing it on it's not the right solution.

 

I don't agree with much of the assumption, for example the cost. One of the beauties of UBI is it takes out the massive cost of means testing and huge swathes of administration, it can be done through national insurance channels so no legal citizens are left behind and it's much harder to defraud.

 

Massive amounts have been wasted with fraud, administration, and people still got left behind while others cashed in. That's a failure.

 

But the main point is put people first, then let's think about how the economy works with that. That didn't happen because priorities are ****ed up. 

 

Without furlough how would businesses who had reduced, or no income, have retained their staff without bankrupting themselves?

[JudyJudyJudy]

35 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Interesting approach.

Tragic really . 

[Taffin]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Tragic really . 

 

Not sure. I think it will be interesting to see how it works in practice. I've generally found that unless somewhere is really busy most people don't really get particularly close anyway and if some odd-job does, then you can move away from them. So I'm not really sure of the purpose of it, but if it works, great imo.

[Fitzroy Pointon]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Not sure. I think it will be interesting to see how it works in practice. I've generally found that unless somewhere is really busy most people don't really get particularly close anyway and if some odd-job does, then you can move away from them. So I'm not really sure of the purpose of it, but if it works, great imo.

 

I'm just waiting for someone on social media to compare it to a yellow star. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Not sure. I think it will be interesting to see how it works in practice. I've generally found that unless somewhere is really busy most people don't really get particularly close anyway and if some odd-job does, then you can move away from them. So I'm not really sure of the purpose of it, but if it works, great imo.

Well I don’t know about you I always am respectful of peoples space when out about or indoors . This scheme assumes some are not. I just find in sad that people wearing badges stating don’t get to close To them . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Not sure. I think it will be interesting to see how it works in practice. I've generally found that unless somewhere is really busy most people don't really get particularly close anyway and if some odd-job does, then you can move away from them. So I'm not really sure of the purpose of it, but if it works, great imo.

Can you get ones asking for people to actually come closer to you ? Like people of the male sex for me 😂

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Can you get ones asking for people to actually come closer to you ? Like people of the male sex for me 😂

 

Fortunately I'm dishy enough to not need a badge for that 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I think we’re talking a bit at cross purposes a bit here. I’m trying to explain something quite complex and perhaps not doing best job. 

 

Im not basing on it not being the right solution, I’m saying the COVID crisis is most definitely the wrong time to introduce it.  It doesn’t solve the problem the economies faced, it exacerbates the issues it faced. We need a healthy economy to support people. Furlough solved the problem the economy faced, explain to me how UBI does? 

I have never ruled out UBi due to cost and again I have no idea where your getting that from 🤷🏻‍♂️I said UBi reduces the cost of money, thats a very very very different thing. It’s a basic supply and demand principal you increase money supply your reduce cost of money, this in turns causes things like inflation. We witnesses this very thing during the COVID crisis and right now.

I don’t disagree one of the benefits of UBi is administration costs but I genuinely have no idea what that’s got to with the effects on the economy?

With regard to your last para, I genuinely have no idea what your on about and what’s it got to with anything I’ve posted.  I just tried to explain from an economic perspective what happens agree or not🤷🏻‍♂️
 

As I say I can’t help but feeling we’re talking across purposes, Take it easy bud and hope everything’s cool👍
 

UBI is a lovely concept but it’s more fantasy island economics than reality .

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

I'm just waiting for someone on social media to compare it to a yellow star. 

It's more like the Leeds United badge.

I suppose the folk wearing them will get a bit Leeds United when people get close to them

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Fortunately I'm dishy enough to not need a badge for that 😂

Well I’ve never needed a badge either to attract the poor souls who venture into my web 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's more like the Leeds United badge.

I suppose the folk wearing them will get a bit Leeds United when people get close to them

To be honest the ones wearing them I probably wouldn’t want to get close to . Sounds attention seeking nonsense really and also quite unfriendly 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

Meh, who gives a ****. It doesn’t impact you in anyway, if it helps people get through it fair enough. We don’t all have the same attitude in life, most people are doing things for a good reason ie. To protect them, it’s got **** all to do with assumptions about you. 
 

Your not that important🙈
 

 

Im not necessarily against UBI but It wasn’t the solution to this crisis. There couldn’t be a worst time to introduce due to the challenges we faced. 

 

Anyway you all COVID clear now and back to ‘normal’?

Whoa I think your directing your anger at the wrong person here ! Ffs gettinG your knickers right. In. A twist ! Yes if they want to eat badges but I just think it’s a sad step to take when we should be more approachable etc with each other 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Meh, who gives a ****. It doesn’t impact you in anyway, if it helps people get through it fair enough. We don’t all have the same attitude in life, most people are doing things for a good reason ie. To protect them, it’s got **** all to do with assumptions about you. 
 

Your not that important🙈
 

 

Im not necessarily against UBI but It wasn’t the solution to this crisis. There couldn’t be a worst time to introduce due to the challenges we faced. 

 

Anyway you all COVID clear now and back to ‘normal’?

Yes im Covid clear and back to my normal 😂 cock a hoop I had it actually . Thanks for asking 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I think you’ve been in too many arguments. Attachment of anger is a belter 

 

 

Think your maybe seeing something that ain’t there.

 

Glad to here. You pass onto anyone or that as a matter of interest? 
 

 

 

 

Nope . As far as I am aware . No one close to me . In fact think I prob got in from close contact . But it’s irrelevant really . Had it , that’s it really . 

[Footballfirst]

43 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Well I don’t know about you I always am respectful of peoples space when out about or indoors . This scheme assumes some are not. I just find in sad that people wearing badges stating don’t get to close To them . 

I recall you calling people "dafties" who sought to keep their distance from you when out walking. 

[Irufushi]

On 24/01/2022 at 10:52, Jambo 4 Ever said:

 

 

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, Irufushi said:

 

 

It's quite 🤣

[joondalupjambo]

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

Interesting approach.

I take it these folk who do not wear masks in shops will ask for one of these?  Anything to be different 😀

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Can you get ones asking for people to actually come closer to you ? Like people of the male sex for me 😂

Why?

[JudyJudyJudy]

48 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I recall you calling people "dafties" who sought to keep their distance from you when out walking. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Why?

OH for god sake work it out , or people make think you a twit mate

[Footballfirst]

On 12/04/2021 at 12:17, JamesM48 said:

I know . Very true . I wax walking on the pavement and a woman was walking towards me and moved very quickly out my way like I was a serial killer or something 😂 dafty . But it’s all very sad how people have now become so paranoid and intolerant of others . 

[Nucky Thompson]

9 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Why?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

You really need to get a life.  Utterly tragic trawling through someones postings. Pathetic in fact. 

[Footballfirst]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

You really need to get a life.  Utterly tragic trawling through someones postings. Pathetic in fact. 

U turn if you want to James.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

You really need to get a life.  Utterly tragic trawling through someones postings. Pathetic in fact. 

No he has a point 

 

you have always come across as anti anything to do with facemasks too - hiding behind an excuse to be exempt - very sad 

 

Plus for someone who doesn’t want to talk about it - you have over 7,000 posts on this thread alone …!!!

Edited January 25, 2022 by Jambo 4 Ever

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

U turn if you want to James.

How’s it’s a u turn I’ made a comment about people avoiding being close to people then makin the same comment now ? 

[Savage Vince]

6 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

No he has a point 

 

you have always come across as anti anything to do with facemasks too - hiding behind an excuse to be exempt - very sad 

 

Plus for someone who doesn’t want to talk about it - you have over 7,000 posts on this thread alone …!!!

 

Tbf half of them are James Dean Gifs. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

No he has a point 

 

you have always come across as anti anything to do with facemasks too - hiding behind an excuse to be exempt - very sad 

 

Plus for someone who doesn’t want to talk about it - you have over 7,000 posts on this thread alone …!!!

Ok stop stop it . Lol I’m off out for meal sans mask ! Sans means “ without” you might not know that As I believe you are from Hamilton 

[Footballfirst]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

How’s it’s a u turn I’ made a comment about people avoiding being close to people then makin the same comment now ? 

Quite simply, you claimed to be respectful of people's space, yet had previously claimed that a woman keeping her distance was a dafty.

 

James - Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted that you have made a damascene conversion to showing people respect if they choose to keep their distance. 

[Victorian]

James always thinks it's sad,  tragic and pathetic when one of his contradictory,  hypocritical ramblings is cited to show up his latest contradictory,  hypocritical rambles.

 

A poster who refuses to take responsibility and ownership of what he says.  An absolute moral,  honesty,  humanity vacuum.  

[Footballfirst]

Just now, Victorian said:

A poster who refuses to take responsibility and ownership of what he says.  An absolute moral,  honesty,  humanity vacuum.  

I thought that you were talking about BoJo for a moment.

[Nucky Thompson]

6 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

 

 

you have always come across as anti anything to do with facemasks too - hiding being an excuse to be exempt 

There is no requirement to obtain written evidence in the form of a letter from a doctor or the government that you are exempt.

 

if you have received abuse for not wearing a face covering, you can visit the disability safety hub for information on how to recognise and report disability hate crime

 

You shouldn't be calling out people for not wearing a mask

[Victorian]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

I thought that you were talking about BoJo for a moment.

 

From the same cloth.  James made out of the off-cut bits.

[ri Alban]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Ok stop stop it . Lol I’m off out for meal sans mask ! Sans means “ without” you might not know that As I believe you are from Hamilton 

 Get a taxi.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

James always thinks it's sad,  tragic and pathetic when one of his contradictory,  hypocritical ramblings is cited to show up his latest contradictory,  hypocritical rambles.

 

A poster who refuses to take responsibility and ownership of what he says.  An absolute moral,  honesty,  humanity vacuum.  

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

There is no requirement to obtain written evidence in the form of a letter from a doctor or the government that you are exempt.

 

if you have received abuse for not wearing a face covering, you can visit the disability safety hub for information on how to recognise and report disability hate crime

 

You shouldn't be calling out people for not wearing a mask

He’s awful . 

[Captain Slog]

Och, lay off James, at least he's light hearted and entertaining, unlike some rancour on here.  And he always educates and shapes my opinions on covid, in that I take the opposite stance to whatever he's posting about now.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Och, lay off James, at least he's light hearted and entertaining, unlike some rancour on here.  And he always educates and shapes my opinions on covid, in that I take the opposite stance to whatever he's posting about now.

[Nucky Thompson]

I see on STV news that they have dragged oot some auld dear who had a birthday at the same time as Boris 

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

20 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

There is no requirement to obtain written evidence in the form of a letter from a doctor or the government that you are exempt.

 

if you have received abuse for not wearing a face covering, you can visit the disability safety hub for information on how to recognise and report disability hate crime

 

You shouldn't be calling out people for not wearing a mask

Not when they are encouraging others to not wear them either and have been known to disagree with what the government says in general 

[Taffin]

29 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Not when they are encouraging others to not wear them either and have been known to disagree with what the government says in general 

 

Why do you wear a mask?

 

If you thought you had Covid you should be at home isolating.

[Nucky Thompson]

31 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Not when they are encouraging others to not wear them either and have been known to disagree with what the government says in general 

Do you agree with absolutely everything the government says?

[Jambo 4 Ever]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why do you wear a mask?

 

If you thought you had Covid you should be at home isolating.

So that I protect others and myself 

 

it’s not big deal to wear one - anyone not doing so are selfish

 

people who claim they can’t wear one because they can’t breathe properly should wear a visor - what’s their excuse then?

Edited January 25, 2022 by Jambo 4 Ever

[The Real Maroonblood]

59 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

 Get a taxi.

[ri Alban]

13 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I love that gif.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, ri Alban said:

I love that gif.

👍

[ri Alban]

25 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why do you wear a mask?

 

If you thought you had Covid you should be at home isolating.

Cobblers.