Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Taffin]

21 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

As complete guesses, I think to some degree Scotland is playing catch up. England had far higher cases back in the winter and all those people now have natural immunity.

 

Maybe also more indoor mixing up here too through crapper weather, plus our schools went back earlier.

 

It's an odd one, I just had a look at the case rates on the government website and it may not be the best thing to look at buy looks like Scotland are nearly double the cases per 100k. That's a serious amount, even allowing for natural immunity given we now have the vaccine to offset that disparity.

 

I do think cases will accelerate here as more time is spent back at school but I'm not really sure what the solution is to that. I don't think shifting the burden onto another industry is the way to go, especially given as it won't actually have much effect (or we'd already be seeing the rates go up)

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

When in hole, stop digging.

 

And for the second night in a row, we're done here. 

Thank feck for that.

[manaliveits105]

1000 in hospital 

Chief Mammy  out 

Not fit for purpose 

[Dirty Deeds]

It won't surprise me if there is another Covid passport u-turn from Westminster before the year is out.

 

Schools, universities and offices all returning will drive up numbers and lead to hospitalisations unfortunately. 

[Nucky Thompson]

5 minutes ago, Dirty Deeds said:

It won't surprise me if there is another Covid passport u-turn from Westminster before the year is out.

 

Schools, universities and offices all returning will drive up numbers and lead to hospitalisations unfortunately. 

They've already said that they'll keep it on the back burner. 

 

It's not really a u-turn as they only talked about it. Nothing was passed through parliament.

 

Boris is setting out his Winter Covid plans on Tuesday

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, Victorian said:

But M'Lud.  I reject your 5 year custodial sentence.  It's draconian.  If I'm as bad a lad as the law thinks then I should be given a life term.  

We encourage you not to rape, pillage and murder. It doesn't protect you but if we all do it then we're all protecting each other.

Don't worry, we aren't enforcing this, so if you do see a murderer, rapist or pillager then try to reason with them, coax, cajole and empathise but please don't stigmatise them. 

You've all done weely, weely, well so far and I, as FM, am so pwoud of you all.🤣

 

 

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, Dirty Deeds said:

It won't surprise me if there is another Covid passport u-turn from Westminster before the year is out.

 

Schools, universities and offices all returning will drive up numbers and lead to hospitalisations unfortunately. 

Your last word was not terribly convincing.

[Gizmo]

5 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Says a guy who quotes the Daily Mail.  Hilarious. 

 
 

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We encourage you not to rape, pillage and murder. It doesn't protect you but if we all do it then we're all protecting each other.

Don't worry, we aren't enforcing this, so if you do see a murderer, rapist or pillager then try to reason with them, coax, cajole and empathise but please don't stigmatise them. 

You've all done weely, weely, well so far and I, as FM, am so pwoud of you all.🤣

 

 

 Get help. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

20 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 
 

 Get help. 

🤣🤣🤣

[ri Alban]

15 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Most of them last Monday, a few the week before.

 

It's a bit silly wishing Covid on them, just so that they look worse than Scotland

Who wishes covid? You? It's inevitable they'll see the same rise as we did. But carry on.

 

Anyway, how's your super spreading going. Still a success?

[Nucky Thompson]

39 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Who wishes covid? You? It's inevitable they'll see the same rise as we did. But carry on.

 

Anyway, how's your super spreading going. Still a success?

Aye, I'm now spreading it the other way seeing as Scotland has the highest rates in Europe 

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Who wishes covid? You? It's inevitable they'll see the same rise as we did. But carry on.

 

Anyway, how's your super spreading going. Still a success?

 

Why is it inevitable? We were repeatedly told the main source of spreading was pubs and hospitality (hence why it was targeted most). That's all been open unrestricted down here for nearly 2 months yet we don't have massive rises.

 

Either we won't see the same rises, or (as some of us expected) hospitality isn't and never was a major issue and was instead targeted as an easy target.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

Bad news for Livingston as the UK government has pulled out of their vaccination contract with Valneva.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58499064

[Bungalow Bill]

22 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Bad news for Livingston as the UK government has pulled out of their vaccination contract with Valneva.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58499064

I’m on this trial. Gutted by this news. 

[Auldbenches]

Vaccines have been approved for 12 to 15 year olds. 

 

[Victorian]

16 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

I’m on this trial. Gutted by this news. 

 

The trial is continuing.

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Are home PCR tests delivered by Royal Mail or courier?

 

And, if you give someone a lift to a drive-through PCR test (masked up, windows open), do you count as a close contact and have to isolate if they test positive? 

 

I've tried searching for the above info online and haven't found anything.

 

 

I think it is royal mail. I would assume that if they test positive you would be counted as a close contact. Maybe if you are driving someone to get a test arrange to get one yourself to cover that scenario

[Bungalow Bill]

18 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The trial is continuing.

Yes I know. I never said it wasn’t. 

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

Yes I know. I never said it wasn’t. 

 

Oh right.  

[Footballfirst]

 

16 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Are home PCR tests delivered by Royal Mail or courier?

I think anything ordered from the NHS is delivered by Royal Mail, certainly my first LFT kit was.

 

I ordered a "Day 2" PCR test from Randox last week for my return from holiday. It was delivered by the courier DPD.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Bad news for Livingston as the UK government has pulled out of their vaccination contract with Valneva.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58499064

 

I suppose the danger here was that Valneva and any of the other vaccines still in trials would get left behind, in as much as they are first generation vaccines, whilst Pfizer, Moderna, AZ, Janssen etc, will I'd imagine, be working on their second generation vaccines.

Valneva etc would always be playing catch-up, not saying there isn't a place or need for them, just maybe not in the UK anymore.

 

[Bungalow Bill]

15 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I suppose the danger here was that Valneva and any of the other vaccines still in trials would get left behind, in as much as they are first generation vaccines, whilst Pfizer, Moderna, AZ, Janssen etc, will I'd imagine, be working on their second generation vaccines.

Valneva etc would always be playing catch-up, not saying there isn't a place or need for them, just maybe not in the UK anymore.

 

The theory suggested that the Valneva vaccine would be better at dealing with variants as it’s a whole inactivated virus. 
 

Have the government had early sight of the trial data and not liked what they’ve seen? 

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

Have the government had early sight of the trial data and not liked what they’ve seen? 

Probably decided that they didn't need another 100m vaccine doses, so have looked for a way to cancel the contract and save cash.

[Auldbenches]

Patrick Harvey getting it in the passport debate and claiming he isn't a hypocrite for changing his mind in 6 weeks.

Says that they were just to coerce people to get vaccinated and a threat to civil liberties bit the figures have now changed nlnot him getting power. 

F the lot of them

[milky_26]

12 minutes ago, jonesy said:

While I'm not vaccine hesitant, I'd certainly think twice before pumping my body full of a) anything French other than wine or pastis and b) anything 'made' in West Lothian.

 

Can see exactly why they've been ditched.

tbf anything from west lothain is usually the one getting pumped rather than doing the pumping 

[Auldbenches]

Just now, jonesy said:

The wee weirdo is quite short and so, with his low centre of gravity I imagine doing a u-turn wasn't too hard for him.

After a decade, veggies are supposed to start leaning towards the sun.  You can't notice it with him because of his low sense of gravity.

He got it from a couple in the debate and he was rattled. 

Said that the huge rise in cases changed his mind rather than power.   

I was at an event he wa talking at and he was alright.  This shows him in his true political light.  

[Footballfirst]

I suspect that the SG will welcome a decision by the CMOs to recommend vaccinations for 12-15 year olds, primarily because it will help suppress the level of community spread.

 

I also think that they will use that decision to backtrack a bit on vaccine passports, by suggesting that the VPs were being used as a means of increasing the uptake of vaccines, which will now be achieved by vaccinating 12-15 year olds.

[Taffin]

15 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Patrick Harvey getting it in the passport debate and claiming he isn't a hypocrite for changing his mind in 6 weeks.

Says that they were just to coerce people to get vaccinated and a threat to civil liberties bit the figures have now changed nlnot him getting power. 

F the lot of them

 

Being for/against them on the grounds of coercion and a risk to civil liberties is idealistic. 

 

Being for or against them based on figures is pragmatic.

 

He could have been honest and said they're a necessary evil, but I'm guessing he didn't. Not a good look for a politician who's purpose is idealism (green credentials) to be easily swayed by pragmatic arguments. 

 

"I'm no longer in favour of protecting the planet as the figures to make it happen are just too unpalatable for me"

[Auldbenches]

Just now, jonesy said:

Yeah, pretty sure, like most folk, he's not a bad egg and believes in what he's doing.

 

But he's now so deep into the Holyrood bubble that he won't be able to comprehend how much of a hypocrite he is.

I agree with the Foster above who said there's nothing wrong with being politically pragmatic but this is it with him in this case. 

The article he wrote and what was quoted from was a very hard stance against passports and now they are worth it.

Voters don't forget these things, just ask the liberals. 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

33 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

The theory suggested that the Valneva vaccine would be better at dealing with variants as it’s a whole inactivated virus. 
 

Have the government had early sight of the trial data and not liked what they’ve seen? 

 

Probably just not needed in the UK anymore, which has to be a good thing, and is also good, because the richer countries have been accused of buying up all the stock and hoarding the vaccines, the UK by cancelling this order have just made it's 100m doses available for possibly poorer nations to have the chance to be able to buy supplies of a vaccine.

[Victorian]

25 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I suspect that the SG will welcome a decision by the CMOs to recommend vaccinations for 12-15 year olds, primarily because it will help suppress the level of community spread.

 

I also think that they will use that decision to backtrack a bit on vaccine passports, by suggesting that the VPs were being used as a means of increasing the uptake of vaccines, which will now be achieved by vaccinating 12-15 year olds.

 

Probably.  Swinney seemed to allude to minimal use of vaccine certification.  Perhaps a toe in the water towards stepping back from it a bit.

[Victorian]

Now Yousaf is saying that large events entry may be spot check based as one option.

 

They're definitely in the process of a rethink or U-turn.

[JackLadd]

34 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Now Yousaf is saying that large events entry may be spot check based as one option.

 

They're definitely in the process of a rethink or U-turn.

 

No football ground is going to spot check anybody. Oor Humza can get in his uninsured vehicle and bolt. 

[redjambo]

The season of data issues may be on us again. I'll produce the stats anyway, but be aware that the figures may be off today and tomorrow.

 

Scottish numbers: 13 September 2021

Summary

• 4,241* new cases of COVID-19 reported [-1,671; down from 7,065 a week ago]
• 40,749* new tests for COVID-19 that reported results [-14,897]
  • 11.3*% of these were positive [-0.2%]
• 0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends) [=]
• 90 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+2]
• 1,048 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+29]
• 4,142,783 people have received their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccination and 3,785,214 have received their second dose [+2,167; +7,753]

*Please note that due to IT issues, the figures reported today are likely to be an underestimate of the total tests and cases. All affected data will be included in tomorrow’s reports.

[haggis58]

There has been a few reports in the papers recently that states that most of the patients in hospital in the UK are fully vaccinated. This statement is correct, but it total misrepresents the effectiveness of the vaccine because of the uptake in the population. (the graphic explains why)

Edited September 13, 2021 by haggis58

[redjambo]

Bearing in mind today's data issue, here are the latest trend stats:

 

			7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	WHO		Today	Yesterday			11 Sep	10 Sep	9 Sep	8 Sep	7 Sep	...	1 Sep
Scotland	4		725	776	-51		785	818	817	809	815	...	747
West Dunbartonshire	4		1158	1228	-70		1245	1321	1296	1227	1199	...	1105
East Renfrewshire	4		1006	1055	-49		1048	1091	1075	1073	1091	...	1080
North Lanarkshire	4		960	1034	-74		1085	1155	1196	1236	1250	...	1261
Inverclyde	4		954	1054	-100		1095	1151	1168	1135	1243	...	1238
Renfrewshire	4		910	981	-71		1033	1078	1102	1123	1132	...	1041
Glasgow City	4		848	937	-89		956	1014	1036	1032	1046	...	989
Midlothian	4		842	875	-33		877	890	888	905	895	...	754
Dundee City	4		831	851	-20		858	859	845	792	827	...	697
North Ayrshire	4		826	899	-73		891	892	837	857	836	...	772
South Lanarkshire	4		821	893	-72		909	966	987	981	1006	...	1013
West Lothian	4		805	832	-27		781	817	822	778	765	...	668
Clackmannanshire	4		801	833	-32		909	944	975	990	990	...	704
East Dunbartonshire	4		795	868	-73		874	913	956	1006	997	...	1150
East Ayrshire	4		788	834	-46		811	813	781	747	722	...	627
Fife	4		787	813	-26		820	849	830	795	784	...	597
Falkirk	4		733	801	-68		782	845	848	838	843	...	690
Stirling	4		679	717	-38		696	699	695	651	664	...	628
South Ayrshire	4		677	734	-57		697	715	721	706	721	...	658
Edinburgh City	4		645	704	-59		705	744	723	726	753	...	722
Aberdeenshire	4		637	660	-23		666	670	621	568	552	...	424
Argyll & Bute	4		615	681	-66		748	763	784	809	826	...	712
Aberdeen City	4		553	580	-27		590	607	588	542	549	...	414
Highland	4		534	584	-50		609	632	611	614	612	...	531
Dumfries & Galloway	4		512	533	-21		541	589	566	576	573	...	620
East Lothian	4		510	573	-63		558	584	608	606	652	...	604
Angus	4		480	515	-35		533	551	544	540	567	...	430
Scottish Borders	4		451	464	-13		440	453	462	495	463	...	430
Perth & Kinross	4		395	405	-10		400	394	384	358	352	...	297
Moray	4		271	281	-10		247	260	254	259	244	...	183
Shetland Islands	4		267	249	+18		280	337	310	306	289	...	262
Orkney Islands	4		259	228	+31		223	147	147	129	89	...	67
Na h-Eileanan Siar	3		140	136	+4		147	166	189	223	181	...	170
7-day averages			Today	Yesterday			11 Sep	10 Sep	9 Sep	8 Sep	7 Sep	...	1 Sep
Tests			53583	55218	-1635		54130	55345	54395	53496	53518	...	46368
Cases			5658	6061	-403		6126	6391	6376	6314	6365	...	5832
Positivity rate %			11.3	11.7	-0.4		12.1	12.3	12.5	12.6	12.7	...	13.3
Deaths			11.0	11.0	0.0		11.0	11.1	9.4	10.1	9.0	...	6.0
All Vaccinations			9324	9949	-625		10370	10587	11496	11576	12093	...	15364
1st Dose			2432	2737	-305		3010	3040	3228	3220	3227	...	2844
2nd Dose			6892	7212	-320		7360	7547	8268	8356	8866	...	12520
All in hospital			949	909	+40		867	822	776	732	696	...	524
Non-ICU			865	828	+37		789	748	705	666	633	...	473
ICU			84	81	+3		78	74	71	66	63	...	51

Edited September 13, 2021 by redjambo

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Bearing in mind today's data issue, here are the latest trend stats:

 

			7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	WHO		Today	Yesterday			11 Sep	10 Sep	9 Sep	8 Sep	7 Sep	...	1 Sep
Scotland	4		725	776	-51		785	818	817	809	815	...	747
West Dunbartonshire	4		1158	1228	-70		1245	1321	1296	1227	1199	...	1105
East Renfrewshire	4		1006	1055	-49		1048	1091	1075	1073	1091	...	1080
North Lanarkshire	4		960	1034	-74		1085	1155	1196	1236	1250	...	1261
Inverclyde	4		954	1054	-100		1095	1151	1168	1135	1243	...	1238
Renfrewshire	4		910	981	-71		1033	1078	1102	1123	1132	...	1041
Glasgow City	4		848	937	-89		956	1014	1036	1032	1046	...	989
Midlothian	4		842	875	-33		877	890	888	905	895	...	754
Dundee City	4		831	851	-20		858	859	845	792	827	...	697
North Ayrshire	4		826	899	-73		891	892	837	857	836	...	772
South Lanarkshire	4		821	893	-72		909	966	987	981	1006	...	1013
West Lothian	4		805	832	-27		781	817	822	778	765	...	668
Clackmannanshire	4		801	833	-32		909	944	975	990	990	...	704
East Dunbartonshire	4		795	868	-73		874	913	956	1006	997	...	1150
East Ayrshire	4		788	834	-46		811	813	781	747	722	...	627
Fife	4		787	813	-26		820	849	830	795	784	...	597
Falkirk	4		733	801	-68		782	845	848	838	843	...	690
Stirling	4		679	717	-38		696	699	695	651	664	...	628
South Ayrshire	4		677	734	-57		697	715	721	706	721	...	658
Edinburgh City	4		645	704	-59		705	744	723	726	753	...	722
Aberdeenshire	4		637	660	-23		666	670	621	568	552	...	424
Argyll & Bute	4		615	681	-66		748	763	784	809	826	...	712
Aberdeen City	4		553	580	-27		590	607	588	542	549	...	414
Highland	4		534	584	-50		609	632	611	614	612	...	531
Dumfries & Galloway	4		512	533	-21		541	589	566	576	573	...	620
East Lothian	4		510	573	-63		558	584	608	606	652	...	604
Angus	4		480	515	-35		533	551	544	540	567	...	430
Scottish Borders	4		451	464	-13		440	453	462	495	463	...	430
Perth & Kinross	4		395	405	-10		400	394	384	358	352	...	297
Moray	4		271	281	-10		247	260	254	259	244	...	183
Shetland Islands	4		267	249	+18		280	337	310	306	289	...	262
Orkney Islands	4		259	228	+31		223	147	147	129	89	...	67
Na h-Eileanan Siar	3		140	136	+4		147	166	189	223	181	...	170
7-day averages			Today	Yesterday			11 Sep	10 Sep	9 Sep	8 Sep	7 Sep	...	1 Sep
Tests			53583	55218	-1635		54130	55345	54395	53496	53518	...	46368
Cases			5658	6061	-403		6126	6391	6376	6314	6365	...	5832
Positivity rate %			11.3	11.7	-0.4		12.1	12.3	12.5	12.6	12.7	...	13.3
Deaths			11.0	11.0	0.0		11.0	11.1	9.4	10.1	9.0	...	6.0
All Vaccinations			9324	9949	-625		10370	10587	11496	11576	12093	...	15364
1st Dose			2432	2737	-305		3010	3040	3228	3220	3227	...	2844
2nd Dose			6892	7212	-320		7360	7547	8268	8356	8866	...	12520
All in hospital			949	909	+40		867	822	776	732	696	...	524
Non-ICU			865	828	+37		789	748	705	666	633	...	473
ICU			84	81	+3		78	74	71	66	63	...	51

👍

[GBJambo]

21 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Medical officers recommending one dose of Pzifer for 12-15 year old

Wonder why just the one dose? 
Think I’ll stick to advice of the JCVI

[Victorian]

14 minutes ago, GBJambo said:

Wonder why just the one dose? 
Think I’ll stick to advice of the JCVI

 

Well the JCVI advice is not advice for the public to pick and choose their own decision.  It's their advice feeding in the SAGE and the government.  The joint CMOs also advise the government and the government makes the decision based on what they're advised and their own social and economic considerations.

 

If the JCVI say no and the CMOs say yes,  the public doesn't have the competence to decide which is right.  Anyone choosing the JCVI is likely to be inclined against the vaccine anyway.

[indianajones]

Scientists say do not vaccinate children. 

Govts  vaccinate children anyway.

 

 

 

 

[Taffin]

21 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Well the JCVI advice is not advice for the public to pick and choose their own decision.  It's their advice feeding in the SAGE and the government.  The joint CMOs also advise the government and the government makes the decision based on what they're advised and their own social and economic considerations.

 

If the JCVI say no and the CMOs say yes,  the public doesn't have the competence to decide which is right.  Anyone choosing the JCVI is likely to be inclined against the vaccine anyway.

 

Doesn't that leave then at an impasse? They don't have the competence to decide which is right, so should they take action, or not?

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Doesn't that leave then at an impasse? They don't have the competence to decide which is right, so should they take action, or not?

 

 

Parents should and will make their own choice.  What I'm saying is that the JCVI does not advise the public to enable their choice.  

[Victorian]

21 minutes ago, jonesy said:

The divergence does highlight the nonsense that was the follow the science sloganeering used last year (by both politicians and those seeking to belittle those who disagreed with government decisions). Science is neither monolithic nor accurate. It's simply the processes of understanding the world around us in increasingly accurate ways.

 

There has always been a few contradictions in that way.  The governments do tend to follow the science but certainly don't follow all of the science.  Such a thing is sometimes impossible if there's a direct conflicting position.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Parents should and will make their own choice.  What I'm saying is that the JCVI does not advise the public to enable their choice.  

 

👍👍 I get you

[ScotsAndy]

29 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Scientists say do not vaccinate children. 

Govts  vaccinate children anyway.

 

 

 

 

Its not as straightforward or simple as the statement above - I would advise reading the actual JCVI statement on the above  - they actually state the benefits of vaccination are marginally positive - but for balance also detail the negatives.  In reality they advised taking on board a range of other sets of advice - not all strictly health related - more societal.  There is loads more than set down below - both for and against - but people really need to time to read and understand these arguments are not binary.

 

Overall, the committee is of the opinion that the benefits from vaccination are marginally greater than the potential known harms (tables 1 to 4) but acknowledges that there is considerable uncertainty regarding the magnitude of the potential harms. The margin of benefit, based primarily on a health perspective, is considered too small to support advice on a universal programme of vaccination of otherwise healthy 12 to 15-year-old children at this time. As longer-term data on potential adverse reactions accrue, greater certainty may allow for a reconsideration of the benefits and harms. Such data may not be available for several months.

JCVI has considered commentary from stakeholders on the benefits of vaccination on the operation of schools and the educational impact of the pandemic on children and young people. JCVI is constituted with expertise to allow consideration of the health benefits and risks of vaccination and it is not within its remit to incorporate in-depth considerations on wider societal impacts, including educational benefits. The government may wish to seek further views on the wider societal and educational impacts from the chief medical officers of the 4 nations, with representation from JCVI in these subsequent discussions. There is considerable uncertainty regarding the impact of vaccination in children and young people on peer-to-peer transmission and transmission in the wider (highly vaccinated) population. Estimates from modelling vary substantially, and the committee is of the view that any impact on transmission may be relatively small, given the lower effectiveness of the vaccine against infection with the Delta variant.

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, haggis58 said:

 

This is a great wee diagram. 

Would love one that gave the same type of stats but this time instead of hospitalisation it's deaths.

 

The problem is there'll be some folks out there that still point to the bottom of the page and go "more people with the vaccine getting ill" cause they are incapable of understanding.

 

Thanks for sharing though. 👍

[Footballfirst]

9 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

This is a great wee diagram. 

Would love one that gave the same type of stats but this time instead of hospitalisation it's deaths.

 

The problem is there'll be some folks out there that still point to the bottom of the page and go "more people with the vaccine getting ill" cause they are incapable of understanding.

 

Thanks for sharing though. 👍

Coincidentally, earlier today, the ONS published death figures with regard to vaccination status, for England, covering the first half of this year.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021

 

The main point was:

• In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

 

Table 1: There were 640 deaths involving COVID-19 of people who had received both vaccination doses
Count of deaths involving COVID-19 and percentage of all deaths by vaccination status, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 2 July 2021

Vaccination status	Deaths involving COVID-19	Non-COVID-19 deaths	Percent of all deaths
All deaths regardless of vaccination status	51,281	214,701	19.3
Unvaccinated	38,964	65,170	37.4
Deaths within 21 days of first dose	4,388	14,265	23.5
Deaths 21 days or more after first dose	7,289	66,533	9.9
Deaths within 21 days of second dose	182	11,470	1.6
Deaths 21 days or more after second dose	458	57,263	0.8

Edited September 13, 2021 by Footballfirst

[henryheart]

4 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Being for/against them on the grounds of coercion and a risk to civil liberties is idealistic. 

 

Being for or against them based on figures is pragmatic.

 

He could have been honest and said they're a necessary evil, but I'm guessing he didn't. Not a good look for a politician who's purpose is idealism (green credentials) to be easily swayed by pragmatic arguments. 

 

"I'm no longer in favour of protecting the planet as the figures to make it happen are just too unpalatable for me"

 

Expecting any politician to be honest is wishful thinking in the extreme. Having spent all my working life dealing with politicians I can assure you that honesty is a very rare commodity. For them politics is a game and they will tell what they consider to be inconsequential little white lies just to score points over any opponent, to get votes or most often, to look after number one, themselves; the truth is of no consequence and even when caught out they will come up with some guff like 'it wasn't meant to be interpreted like that' or 'I said what I thought was correct at the time.' Us, the general public, are simply pawns to be used with no thought for the consequences. In Scotland the Covid passport was announced with a set start date but with no practical thought of how it would work for the sole purpose of political point scoring in Sturgeon's ongoing but extremely tedious and boring game of Scotland v England.   

[Taffin]

20 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Expecting any politician to be honest is wishful thinking in the extreme. Having spent all my working life dealing with politicians I can assure you that honesty is a very rare commodity. For them politics is a game and they will tell what they consider to be inconsequential little white lies just to score points over any opponent, to get votes or most often, to look after number one, themselves; the truth is of no consequence and even when caught out they will come up with some guff like 'it wasn't meant to be interpreted like that' or 'I said what I thought was correct at the time.' Us, the general public, are simply pawns to be used with no thought for the consequences. In Scotland the Covid passport was announced with a set start date but with no practical thought of how it would work for the sole purpose of political point scoring in Sturgeon's ongoing but extremely tedious and boring game of Scotland v England.   

 

You'll find no arguments on the above from me. Good post 👍

[Jambo-Jimbo]

31 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Coincidentally, earlier today, the ONS published death figures with regard to vaccination status, for England, covering the first half of this year.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021

 

The main point was:

• In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

 

Table 1: There were 640 deaths involving COVID-19 of people who had received both vaccination doses
Count of deaths involving COVID-19 and percentage of all deaths by vaccination status, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 2 July 2021

Vaccination status	Deaths involving COVID-19	Non-COVID-19 deaths	Percent of all deaths
All deaths regardless of vaccination status	51,281	214,701	19.3
Unvaccinated	38,964	65,170	37.4
Deaths within 21 days of first dose	4,388	14,265	23.5
Deaths 21 days or more after first dose	7,289	66,533	9.9
Deaths within 21 days of second dose	182	11,470	1.6
Deaths 21 days or more after second dose	458	57,263	0.8

 

For me the most important figure in the above stats is that almost 39,000 unvaccinated people died in the same period that only 640 double vaccinated people died involving Covid-19.