Francis Albert Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 When they got round to Stormont in the capital of Northern Ireland the BBC reporter was captioned as "Ireland Correspondent". Has the BBC perhaps in obeysance to the IRA and the Good Friday Agreement unified Ireland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, Victorian said: C4 news had an article about covid in South Dakota. Seemingly they've had seriously ill patients pleading for whatever miracle medicine can be given to them, whilst refusing to believe it's covid they're seriously ill from. Where on earth do you start to rationalise that? Maybe because like the vast majority of Covid patients whose lives are at risk they have a number of other underlying life threatening conditions? Maybe irrational but so is the view that the at the average age of 82 Covid deaths are all simply down to Covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Maybe because like the vast majority of Covid patients whose lives are at risk they have a number of other underlying life threatening conditions? Maybe irrational but so is the view that the at the average age of 82 Covid deaths are all simply down to Covid. In fairness if I got seriously ill with something that seems to not affect 90 odd percent of people I'd find it hard to accept/believe it was due to that...an element of shock and denial I'd guess. Or we can just call them thick I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsmad1874 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton51 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Radio Ga Ga said: Have the media ever pulled her up on the 16 day circuit breaker? FFS That started on the 5th October and they even had adverts on the TV with Jason Leitch saying it was short and sharp, That was seven weeks ago and counting... this is where they lost me. Leitch said a 2 week circuit breaker buys you a month in a pandemic. Still waiting for that .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Ffs. Help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshed Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Newton51 said: this is where they lost me. Leitch said a 2 week circuit breaker buys you a month in a pandemic. Still waiting for that .... What annoys me is that no one in the media will ask this question. Are the media warned not to ask questions as simple as this one or they don’t get allowed to ask anything next time? How hard can it be to ask the basic questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, jonesy said: Shield the most vulnerable and allow the rest of the population to go sensibly on with their lives. This is my view, I'm not entirely sure if it's possible or viable, but at face value it seems the most practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, jonesy said: Shield the most vulnerable and allow the rest of the population to go sensibly on with their lives. Just now, Dawnrazor said: This is my view, I'm not entirely sure if it's possible or viable, but at face value it seems the most practical. This. Lets get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said: Nicky banning Hogmanay it seems - good ! I wonder how many will follow that rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irufushi Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, indianajones said: This. Lets get on with it. . End this shit show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, jonesy said: Cheers James. Some posters on here tend to forget that we’re all in it together 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: This is my view, I'm not entirely sure if it's possible or viable, but at face value it seems the most practical. Something that isn't possible or viable is not practical in any way. So it can't be the most practical. Maybe it is possible, or will be. Is it possible or viable? Yes it is actually. The trick is correctly identifying 'the vulnerable'. The naive definition is that the vulnerable group is old people + those with particular health conditions. The more realistic definition is middle aged people + those with health conditions from a wider range. Some people think the vulnerable is a group of a distinct minority but the more realistic number extends much further. It could actually be perfectly legitimately argued that we will be very close to the fabled 'protect & open up' once the majority of people over 50 have been immunised. That should eliminate the vast majority of potential hospitalisations and worse. It would drastically reduce the number of potential hosts for virus to inhabit and it would fundamentally change the infectiousness of CV. We would be pretty much there. Is it a sensible policy before the vaccines have begun to roll out? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, jonesy said: Shield the most vulnerable and allow the rest of the population to go sensibly on with their lives. Herd immunity has proven to be a failure, ask the Swedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton51 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 41 minutes ago, theshed said: What annoys me is that no one in the media will ask this question. Are the media warned not to ask questions as simple as this one or they don’t get allowed to ask anything next time? How hard can it be to ask the basic questions? I’m far from a Boris fan but they do allow questions from members of the public. Surely even allowing someone from the business community could ask something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 The timetable of recovery varies wildly depending on which expert or official is giving their opinion. I prefer to hope for the more optimistic forecasts. From those given so far, it seems possible that the high priority groups plus those over 50 could be immunised by about March. Then we're pretty much out of the shit. What a great thought that we could be as near as 4 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, jonesy said: Not everything is black and white, Pasquale. England introduced a tier system - which by their own admission doesn’t work - and Sturgid decided that, in the interests of politics, she’d have the same only a more complicated/nuanced system which was very cleverly, if somewhat nefariously, keeps us in an infinite loop of restrictions. The tier systems in both countries are flawed, both on a virus suppression and a general liveability level. They have a shiny new tiered system coming in down South, I’m sure it will great as we’re all in it together aren’t we 😆😂. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Just now, jonesy said: I’m not talking about herd immunity. I’m talking about recognising the fact that general lockdown and all it’s necessary hoohah has and will continue to be more damaging than accepting viruses cannot be suppressed without causing as much harm as the virus itself does. Plenty of folk in the 18-60 age bracket (the majority of the population) are likely to have already had the virus without really knowing and are doing just fine. The ONS antibody surveillance regime begs to differ. Added marks for optimism though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jonesy said: Sorry - just to clarify, I wasn’t saying most folk have had it, but that most folk who have had it in that broad age range probably didn’t even realise or suffered symptoms so mild they carried on their normal life. Indeedy. Certainly some degree of asymptomatic infections + negligible symptoms. Also keeping in mind that a lot of this group will probably have insidiously added to onward infection. Hey, we're almost nashing out of the train tunnel of doom. We're not far away. Edited November 23, 2020 by Victorian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) I just checked and I've spent the last week working in an area with nearly 450 cases per 100,000 😱😱😱 That's nearly 4x the amount of the area I live. Edited November 23, 2020 by Taffin Missed a zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 7 hours ago, theshed said: Thats the mental thing in all this. Things are getting better so dropping to tier 2 so can’t visit costco anymore.... no hold on things are getting worse again so that means it’s ok to visit Costco now 🙄🙄 It makes no difference. If you are in Level 3 or above then you cannot leave your own council area. Not even to go to another area at the same level as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said: Bleach!! Quickly!! I think it's largely driven by large outbreaks within certain factories and a smallish population...so I'm hoping that as our workplace hasn't been hit yet and is following correct protocols that I've not been hugely at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, jonesy said: I’m not talking about herd immunity. I’m talking about recognising the fact that general lockdown and all it’s necessary hoohah has and will continue to be more damaging than accepting viruses cannot be suppressed without causing as much harm as the virus itself does. Plenty of folk in the 18-60 age bracket (the majority of the population) are likely to have already had the virus without really knowing and are doing just fine. That’s exactly what you’ve described, shield the vulnerable and let the virus do it’s thing, that’s why the majority haven’t done it. Peoples lives are more important than the economy, to me anyway., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, jonesy said: Man, you seem to equate dissatisfaction with the SG as being a UJ waving Tory belting out LOHAG at the Proms. I’m sure the shiny new tier system in England will be just as inadequate, badly planned and confusing as the current one. It’s fag-packet governance by dog-end politicians. If it acts like a Tory and looks like a Tory then . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, jonesy said: Also keep in mind that many of our daily behaviours continue to add to the misery and suffering of others And yes, fingers these green shoots of virus news turn into a full recovery in a shortish space of time Apart from the willfull self harm of Christmas & new year, as soon as the roll-out begins, pretty much every single day forward means fewer susceptible people + fewer possible hosts for Mr Virus. Every vaccine shot = a double step forward to the end. Fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Just now, jonesy said: You’re the king of a false dichotomy, Mr Bruno! ”The economy” is about so much more than balance sheets and copies of the FT in some banker’s briefcase. Peoples lives depend on it. The economy has the power to take far more lives than Covid-19. That's not to say the economy should be prioritised without restriction when necessary, but to paint it as somehow not being critical to people's lives in the absolute sense is just not true. Quoted the wrong post, I'm agreeing with you Jonesy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said: With fans returning to games in England after end of their lockdown, albeit in reduced numbers, wonder how long it will be before we are allowed to attend Tynecastle again. The 16 day circuit breaker must be due to end soon. Day 16 has fairly dragged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said: You’re correct, 10 years of austerity was worth 6 unmitigated Covid pandemics. The UN humanitarian chief reckons the number of people dying from hunger or hunger related disease could double due to the economic fallout of this crisis unless managed appropriately. It's a fine balancing act for sure, and a very difficult one to get right. Edited November 23, 2020 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Just now, jonesy said: Agreed, Taff. Shame you’re probably now riddled with the Kung Flu, though To be honest, I think in my younger years I would have offered the same argument as PfK. But now, having had a bit of experience of living and working around the world, I’ve seen first hand how the economy impacts lives. Poverty is not socialism I'm still relatively young but when we're talking 25,000 deaths potentially doubling to 50,000 from hunger largely driven by the global economy, it's quite hard not to realise the massive role it plays in whether people live or die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 54 minutes ago, Victorian said: Something that isn't possible or viable is not practical in any way. So it can't be the most practical. Maybe it is possible, or will be. Is it possible or viable? Yes it is actually. The trick is correctly identifying 'the vulnerable'. The naive definition is that the vulnerable group is old people + those with particular health conditions. The more realistic definition is middle aged people + those with health conditions from a wider range. Some people think the vulnerable is a group of a distinct minority but the more realistic number extends much further. It could actually be perfectly legitimately argued that we will be very close to the fabled 'protect & open up' once the majority of people over 50 have been immunised. That should eliminate the vast majority of potential hospitalisations and worse. It would drastically reduce the number of potential hosts for virus to inhabit and it would fundamentally change the infectiousness of CV. We would be pretty much there. Is it a sensible policy before the vaccines have begun to roll out? No. plenty people with actual qualifications in the subject totally disagree with this - some quite highly qualified some might agree with it just to temper some of the usual absoluteness from the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 why has the video that was posted on here a couple of weeks ago with the professor saying that the number of all deaths in the UK between Jan 2019 and September 2019 and Jan 2020 and September 2020 nearly the same not had more publicity if true. the professor had worked alongside the guy Witty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, jonesy said: I’m not talking about herd immunity. I’m talking about recognising the fact that general lockdown and all it’s necessary hoohah has and will continue to be more damaging than accepting viruses cannot be suppressed without causing as much harm as the virus itself does. Plenty of folk in the 18-60 age bracket (the majority of the population) are likely to have already had the virus without really knowing and are doing just fine. Is the majority of the population not in the 16-65 age bracket? In fact is it not in the 10-70 age bracket? Wait, it looks like it might be in the 5-75 age bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Pubs and restaurants and no doubt other businesses in Midlothian have been shafted here majorly. They will have had to order in stock which will now likely go to waste. Completely unfair on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Taffin said: The economy has the power to take far more lives than Covid-19. That's not to say the economy should be prioritised without restriction when necessary, but to paint it as somehow not being critical to people's lives in the absolute sense is just not true. Quoted the wrong post, I'm agreeing with you Jonesy. I didn’t say it was, it’s less important in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, jonesy said: Agreed, Taff. Shame you’re probably now riddled with the Kung Flu, though To be honest, I think in my younger years I would have offered the same argument as PfK. But now, having had a bit of experience of living and working around the world, I’ve seen first hand how the economy impacts lives. Poverty is not socialism No it’s choice made by capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavySlaveJambo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, graygo said: Sending positive thoughts CSJ. Can't be easy but that light at the end of the tunnel is getting closer. Take care. We are looking at 6 months. And the restrictions that are having such an effect that I am feeling like this could be in place that whole time. I would argue that the effects of the tier system on mental health has not been considered. In full lockdown the needs of those with Dementia, ASD and Leaening Disabilities was allowed for, but this time it seems we have to fit back in a system that does not work for us. I hate to think what will happen in the 6-9 months before a vaccine but I honestly do not think I will be here then. Edited November 24, 2020 by CavySlaveJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said: We are looking at 6 months. And the restrictions that are having such an effect that I am feeling like this could be in place that whole time. I would argue that the effects of the tier system on mental health has not been considered. In full lockdown the needs of those with Dementia, ASD and Leaening Disabilities was allowed for, but this time it seems we have to fit back in a system that does not work for us. I hate to think what will happen in the 6-9 months before a vaccine but I honestly do not think I will be here then. Well what I'm hearing/seeing is that the roll out of the vaccine will start as early as next month and by March/April we could be back to some sort of normality. It's still 4-5 months away but better than 6-9 months. You'll be here by then and you have my permission to rip me to bits if things aren't better by April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartstastic Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Remember in they pre covid halcyon days when you may have been in a room, public transport or even a mall with many souls who may have had a cold or a flu and other than maybe a token 'oh don't pass it on' gesture people just went about there business without a second thought? Now you have a illness with very similar symptoms and fatality rates doing the rounds but because it has been marketed to you as the black plague people are acting irrationally at best and down right certified bat shit crazy at the other end of the scale. Anyway i've been labeled by some on here a conspiracy theorist for mentioning things like agenda 2030 and the great reset...the real drivers behind what's currently going on and yet slowly but surely it's now seeping into the mainstream media. I'n not sure why i even bother posting as your just met with ignorance and ridicule and i know none of you personally other than i'll have shared a goal celebration with you at Tynecastle. You can keep choosing too ignore this info but it will be to the detriment of you and everyone you know. The world is run by criminals ...the sooner you accept it the sooner we can try to fix the problem...how can you fix something when you don't know what the actual problem is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55052381 Latest idea is that you can pay your way out of quarantine if you are travelling from abroad. Now I know that there are costs involved for testing, but an extra 100 - 150 per person just seems like profiteering to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: Herd immunity has proven to be a failure, ask the Swedes. What, you mean the Swedes who didn't impose a lockdown, didn't impose face masks, didn't ruin their economy and destroy the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people. A country that is more or less back to normal, people happily mingling together in pubs, restaurants, public transport, without face masks, and who's death rate is lower than the UK? How is that a failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartstastic Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said: Completely misleading rant about shit the guy clearly doesn’t understand. It has also been linked to theories that the virus was deliberately released in order to create the conditions for this great reset. It’s not helpful in anyway, you need to seek help if you believe this bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Hopefully The FM boots the boot into this Christmas nonsense. The most stupid thing I've ever heard, allowing people to travel all over the UK for Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: I didn’t say it was, it’s less important in my view. That's a fair point, but if it's less important than saving lives then you risk a whole lot more lives and so the circle goes. You can't separate them out really imo. A strong economic picture will save far more lives globally than our coronavirus measures...albeit potentially at the expense of domestic lives, which interestingly doesn't really suit the narrative that those opposed to the measures are UJ waving, British money for British people types, quite the opposite. The uncomfortable truth is that saving 'granny' has an economic cost and in turn, a human cost somewhere else. If the fear that hunger deaths could double due to the economic fallout came true...the cost of those measures in that area alone would be c. 9 millions lives. It doesn't have to be one or the other though and our governments should be trying to find the balance that maximises the protection of life. Some of us think they're doing that, others think theyre failing...it's not an easy job though for sure. Edited November 24, 2020 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Chris Whitty: 'It is absolutely essential people are really serious about this' Boris Johnson: 'Squeeze the disease', 'Tis the season to be jolly careful.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 28 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: https://apple.news/ATHqOXVpoSeeD99tfO-6iMQ I'm android and it won't let me open it ☹️ What's the gist of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 49 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: Chris Whitty: 'It is absolutely essential people are really serious about this' Boris Johnson: 'Squeeze the disease', 'Tis the season to be jolly careful.' Unlike FACTS, they are excellent examples of memorable soundbites that might help people follow the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said: It’s about 50% of families being forced into debt, it’s in the independent. Not good. Cheers 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 5 hours ago, RobNox said: What, you mean the Swedes who didn't impose a lockdown, didn't impose face masks, didn't ruin their economy and destroy the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people. A country that is more or less back to normal, people happily mingling together in pubs, restaurants, public transport, without face masks, and who's death rate is lower than the UK? How is that a failure? Cause it doesn't tie in with what NS and Scottish government is doing or has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 5 hours ago, ri Alban said: Hopefully The FM boots the boot into this Christmas nonsense. The most stupid thing I've ever heard, allowing people to travel all over the UK for Christmas. The problem with that is, regardless of what she says, people will do as they please anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Candy said: Unlike FACTS, they are excellent examples of memorable soundbites that might help people follow the rules. Children ain't the problem. If you're gonnae treat adults like imbeciles. Fill yer boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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