Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

At last, sensible decision making from Boris in getting rid of the ridiculous 10pm curfew. Even in Tier 3, restaurants will be serving alcohol until 10pm. Here, we're stuck with mad rules about 6pm, 8pm with or without food, in or out. Quite simply Sturgeon is using Covid and her "saving lives" mantra to restrict people going out for a meal and a drink or for a few beers, behaving sensibly and enjoying themselves.  She is so far removed from how peopke live their lives that she doesn't seem to understand that those who go out and get pi**ed and fall down, will still be doing that somewhere else, still mixing with other households. She will now, quite rightly, be under pressure to follow Boris's lead and start thinking of the economy and the vast majority of the population. 

Hopefully she sees sense but im

nit holding my breath Enzo 

[Brighton Jambo]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

I can't agree with anything you have posted above.  I'm not just talking about hospitality here - I'm referring to any SME, which can range from hospitality to retail.

 

Any business has massive overheads, and your attitude is completely lacking in understanding of basic economics.

 

Any economy relies on SMEs and larger employers to survive.

 

I don't accept your argument that these businesses were going to fail anyway, so just let them.  That just isn't true.

 

As for hospitality, that argument is nonsensical.  Sure a lot of businesses had to make adjustments during the pandemic, notably installing costly measures such as track and trace stations, hand sanitisers, setting up one way systems, and reducing their capacity to facilitate social distancing between tables.  These businesses did this in the belief that the Scottish Government would notice how well run and compliant they were.  Instead they got shafted royally by the Scottish Government who won't provide the data to justify hammering them a second time.  To make matters worse they were promised they would only be shutting for their two week circuit breaker during the school holiday, and that was a blatant lie.

 

The Scottish Government are all over the place, misleading the public and business and I'm stunned by your attempts to defend them here.

 

What we are seeing now are a complete loss of control from the SG and closing hospitality backfiring as I have witnessed by my own eyes with the Take Away Pints scheme being operated outside pubs causing large gatherings of people without social distancing.

Very good post.  Only part I would challenge is why you are stunned by his attempts to defend SG.  It is literally all he does, relentlessly and without fail.  He is completely incapable of balance and honesty and unfortunately as articulate as your post is he won’t change his tiresome defence of all things SG.  

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

That sounds great. My issue is that too many outlets providing a lot of stats with no local detail. I live in Midlothian so your posts are of interest to me. Thanks again

 

If you check out the SG's Covid dashboard at https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview, click on "View cases by Neighbourhood", then select Midlothian in the drop-down list at the top, it will show you a map of recent case levels across Midlothian that you might find useful.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

It’s blatantly obvious by your posts you don’t know the first thing about running a business. 

And there isn't a furlough scheme anywhere in the world that can compensate a business from not being able to open, attract customers, make profits, invest in the staff and the business and pay taxes that the government relies on, in order to fund the NHS, amongst other things.

[Carl Fredrickson]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

If you check out the SG's Covid dashboard at https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview, click on "View cases by Neighbourhood", then select Midlothian in the drop-down list at the top, it will show you a map of recent case levels across Midlothian that you might find useful.

 

Cheers. Your table is especially helpful to see the change. I think a move to the Western Isles might be called for.

[CavySlaveJambo]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

If you check out the SG's Covid dashboard at https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview, click on "View cases by Neighbourhood", then select Midlothian in the drop-down list at the top, it will show you a map of recent case levels across Midlothian that you might find useful.

Also anything that has less than 5 cases is reported as 1-4 cases.... so given the population of some of these areas it makes the per 100,000 look high even at these levels. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Hopefully she sees sense but im

nit holding my breath Enzo 

You're right James but she's been able to hide behind "other parts of the UK are in full lockdown" up until now. She won't have that option in a couple of weeks as England starts a sensible road back to economic recovery.

[Don Dan]

I was made aware of this. Very interesting. Is this belts and braces stuff or are they expecting this problem,

 

“The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed.”

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

Edited November 22, 2020 by Boy Daniel
Add link.

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Very good post.  Only part I would challenge is why you are stunned by his attempts to defend SG.  It is literally all he does, relentlessly and without fail.  He is completely incapable of balance and honesty and unfortunately as articulate as your post is he won’t change his tiresome defence of all things SG.  

 

I thought you had me on ignore. It's a pity you always have to play the man rather than deal with the issue. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

Cheers. Your table is especially helpful to see the change. I think a move to the Western Isles might be called for.

 

I sometimes wish I were still living in Orkney.

[Carl Fredrickson]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

I sometimes wish I were still living in Orkney.

Only been once about 11 years ago and loved it. Was planning a trip there with my two kids before Covid hit. Great place to visit, not sure if I could stay all year though. Imagine the weather could be quite trying at times....

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Also anything that has less than 5 cases is reported as 1-4 cases.... so given the population of some of these areas it makes the per 100,000 look high even at these levels. 

 

Patient confidentiality reasons - it's the same with all the information they report. I suspect though that they may have calculated the per-capita figures using the actual number of cases, but then displayed the cases as "1-4" (please correct me if you think I am wrong). For my local area, for example, if you work backwards using the range and the population stats, then we had 4 cases although it is marked as "1-4".

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

Only been once about 11 years ago and loved it. Was planning a trip there with my two kids before Covid hit. Great place to visit, not sure if I could stay all year though. Imagine the weather could be quite trying at times....

 

I have fond memories of walking against the wind at what felt like a 45 degree angle just to stop myself blowing away. It gets bloody dark too in the winter. But even then, the nature of the light when it is daylight is simply beautiful. It's not a surprise that so many artists end up there. I hope you enjoy your trip to the isles when Covid is eventually behind us!

[CavySlaveJambo]

8 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Patient confidentiality reasons - it's the same with all the information they report. I suspect though that they may have calculated the per-capita figures using the actual number of cases, but then displayed the cases as "1-4" (please correct me if you think I am wrong). For my local area, for example, if you work backwards using the range and the population stats, then we had 4 cases although it is marked as "1-4".

No, it looks like that is what they are doing. Working backwards have 2 cases locally. 

[coconut doug]

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Sorry, but I don't accept that.  Their communication has been a complete shambles.

 

Even the Tories think she's good. https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2616865/talk-show-douglas-rosss-honest-answer-on-sturgeon-versus-johnson/

 

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

If I follow you correctly, what you have just said is that Edinburgh and Glasgow have no chance of getting out of Tiers 3 until the virus is eradicated because their populations are too big?

 

You haven't followed it correctly.

 

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That is unacceptable and a massive cop-out if true from the SG who have been flapping all over the place with illogical reasoning.

 

Not really you are asking for information that doesn't exist and putting too much reliance on a track and trace system that only tells you where you have been not where you got the virus. Consisitent message from SG consistently ignored and distorted by critics.

 

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

My argument is that they should be using targeted measures against the sectors where track and trace is identifying a problem.  However, they won't publish that data, which leads many to conclude it doesn't back up their decisions.

 

This information doesn't exist.

 

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That is irrelevant as no other parties can vote down the SG due to the support of the Greens.

You were telling us the SNP's days were numbered. Wait till the next election, you said. Who has a different policy? i said. 

Let's be honest here all the parties support the SG on this issue and they know that the public do as well.

[Carl Fredrickson]

9 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I have fond memories of walking against the wind at what felt like a 45 degree angle just to stop myself blowing away. It gets bloody dark too in the winter. But even then, the nature of the light when it is daylight is simply beautiful. It's not a surprise that so many artists end up there. I hope you enjoy your trip to the isles when Covid is eventually behind us!

 

Aye I mind the wind. To misquote Billy Connolly, a dug pees in Orkney and it lands in Norway. Hopefully when I go I will not need to take a water bottle

 

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

Aye I mind the wind. To misquote Billy Connolly, a dug pees in Orkney and it lands in Norway. Hopefully when I go I will not need to take a water bottle

 

 

Don't worry, they will have plenty of bottles there to keep you warm.

 

[Don Dan]

Following up on the discussion re businesses struggling I was just reading this.

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/gallery/edinburgh-businesses-never-reopen-again-19326375
 

no help for these businesses I fear.

[frankblack]

18 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Even the Tories think she's good. https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2616865/talk-show-douglas-rosss-honest-answer-on-sturgeon-versus-johnson/

 

 

You haven't followed it correctly.

 

 

Not really you are asking for information that doesn't exist and putting too much reliance on a track and trace system that only tells you where you have been not where you got the virus. Consisitent message from SG consistently ignored and distorted by critics.

 

 

This information doesn't exist.

 

You were telling us the SNP's days were numbered. Wait till the next election, you said. Who has a different policy? i said. 

Let's be honest here all the parties support the SG on this issue and they know that the public do as well.

 

That is one whole post of deflection with irrelevant links.  You are sounding desperate.

 

As for the data I asked for doesn't exist.  Other regions in the UK can produce the figures.

 

It really doesn't take much for a semi-competent data analyst to group and aggregate the per sector figures.  Therefore the argument I put back to you is why aren't we getting this data?

 

People entering hospitality had to register their track and trace details on entry, and that business can be categorised as a pub, restaurant etc.

 

Therefore you can link clusters of infected people who were at a business in a given time window.

 

So explain again why we can't get this data?

Edited November 22, 2020 by frankblack

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

They only use track and trace to identify people who have to isolate, there is no data of where transmission occurred. The data published in England is not really used in terms of identifying hot spots across different sectors. 
 

They should be going this, I’m sure there are plenty of people looking for work who could get this data. 

 

I don't think that is completely correct as they were able to discuss a percentage of infections linked to hospitality in England on political programmes.

 

What exactly are you getting at with your second paragraph?  You don't think knowing the breakdowns per sector to make targeted decisions is useful and aids transparency?

Edited November 22, 2020 by frankblack

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That is one whole post of deflection with irrelevant links.  You are sounding desperate.

 

As for the data I asked for doesn't exist.  Other regions in the UK can produce the figures.

 

It really doesn't take much for a semi-competent data analyst to group and aggregate the per sector figures.  Therefore the argument I put back to you is why aren't we getting this data?

 

People entering hospitality had to register their track and trace details on entry, and that business can be categorised as a pub, restaurant etc.

 

Therefore you can link clusters of infected people who were at a business in a given time window.

 

So explain again why we can't get this data?

The figures do exist. Sturgeon finds the stats when it suits her agenda; links to Blackpool visits, figures from every school in Scotland etc. The Scottish Hospitality Group  have figures of 17 cases from 1.5m visits, so, yes, they exist all right. Sturgeon is slowly being found out. She has lied to businesses and lied to Parliament and her days in power are numbered.

[ArcticJambo]

Lay bare the data.  Won't happen.  Data is power. Always been the case. Oh well.

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I have consistently said they should go and get the data, we need the data. Currently the data doesn’t exist. 
 

You won’t believe me, I’ll leave it there. 

Every single pub& restaurant knows how many times they have been contacted by track and trace and, therefore, how many positive cases have visited their premises. In Aberdeen, they were able to trace an infection at one pub through to various venues and we were given daily updates on how many cases were linked to that outbreak. The venues know the names of every single person who has visited since July so to pretend we can't use that data to establish reliable figures is disingenuous.  The SHG had figures from within their own group so what is lacking,  at governmental level,  is the will to source and publish these figures.

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Every single pub& restaurant knows how many times they have been contacted by track and trace and, therefore, how many positive cases have visited their premises. In Aberdeen, they were able to trace an infection at one pub through to various venues and we were given daily updates on how many cases were linked to that outbreak. The venues know the names of every single person who has visited since July so to pretend we can't use that data to establish reliable figures is disingenuous.  The SHG had figures from within their own group so what is lacking,  at governmental level,  is the will to source and publish these figures.

 

That is the only logical conclusion.

[1971fozzy]

On the news saying likely 3 households can mix for 5 days over Xmas 😱😱😱

[1971fozzy]

2 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

The cost of Covid19 has to be covered in some way. Once we are out of it there needs to be a system where every transaction made in the UK would have a Covid19 charge added. How you work that out I’m not sure but say 2% on every transaction that can’t be offset or claimed back. Everybody buys things therefore everybody pays. 
Just a thought.

too sensible. A covid tax like VAT . I agree it’s a good idea

Edited November 22, 2020 by 1971fozzy

[obua]

8 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Our overlords are so generous with what they bestow upon us.

Don’t worry it will be a full lockdown in January.

[The Real Maroonblood]

23 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

On the news saying likely 3 households can mix for 5 days over Xmas 😱😱😱

[1971fozzy]

10 minutes ago, obua said:

Don’t worry it will be a full lockdown in January.

Guaranteed 

[1971fozzy]

21 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Our overlords are so generous with what they bestow upon us.

Unbelievable so it is

[frankblack]

30 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

On the news saying likely 3 households can mix for 5 days over Xmas 😱😱😱

 

Just as well we don't have New Year the week after.

 

[CJGJ]

Will anyone have the bottle to simply ask her why should we follow the rules when you make changes clearly not based on the science ?.....this Xmas proposal is another example of that.....oh and Boris should be asked this as well

 

She should be asked/told 'Are are happy to gamble with people's lives by making changes to the rules at Christmas that are not in the best interests of the health of people you represent' ?

 

How many deaths are acceptable to you just so you can 'look good' and not 'do good' 

[1971fozzy]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Just as well we don't have New Year the week after.

 

Got that announcement to come 🤣

[1971fozzy]

12 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Will anyone have the bottle to simply ask her why should we follow the rules when you make changes clearly not based on the science ?.....this Xmas proposal is another example of that.....oh and Boris should be asked this as well

 

She should be asked/told 'Are are happy to gamble with people's lives by making changes to the rules at Christmas that are not in the best interests of the health of people you represent' ?

 

How many deaths are acceptable to you just so you can 'look good' and not 'do good' 

nah. They’ll bottle that one

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You're right James but she's been able to hide behind "other parts of the UK are in full lockdown" up until now. She won't have that option in a couple of weeks as England starts a sensible road back to economic recovery.

Exactly mate 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, ArcticJambo said:

Lay bare the data.  Won't happen.  Data is power. Always been the case. Oh well.

Yes it’s no surprise that data is so hard to find , ages of those who died and in what locations ( old folks home etc ) as it may make people less anxious of the risks to them . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

26 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Got that announcement to come 🤣

Yes new year time will be well hammered I assume ! Ideal time for household gatherings too . I think a few crowds will be fathered outside at various places at the bells 🔔 like the old times . 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes new year time will be well hammered I assume ! Ideal time for household gatherings too . I think a few crowds will be fathered outside at various places at the bells 🔔 like the old times . 

Freudian slip 🤔? Bit cold for that 😜. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Freudian slip 🤔? Bit cold for that 😜. 

Lol damn predictive text ! 👍😂

[CJGJ]

I'm expecting the pubs to be open by the 20th December

 

 

Just in time to have a few after another cup winning performance

 

Gorgie Road heaving once more with the masked faces for once not looking to break in to the TSB

[JudyJudyJudy]

48 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I'm expecting the pubs to be open by the 20th December

 

 

Just in time to have a few after another cup winning performance

 

Gorgie Road heaving once more with the masked faces for once not looking to break in to the TSB

I like your optimism 👍 I mean us winning the cup 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

NHS crisis ? What crisis ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

There was no global pandemic then. 

No only 60,000 people died in January 2018 in the U.K. many of the flu 

[manaliveits105]

New Year will be used as a political club no doubt - aye we had a 5 day English Christmas but Boris cancelled Hogmanay 

In truth Scots prefer Christmas to New Year these days anyway 

[Jambof3tornado]

Paramedic work colleague died within the last few days of covid. I spoke to him 2 weeks ago when he was on the ward on 15L O2 and he got moved to icu because every time they reduced his oxygen his sats dropped like s stone.

Workmates father spent 3 weeks in icu on a ventilator before passing away.

 

**** this xmas or new year slackening of any rules, some of us wont see next xmas if we forget about covid for a few days.

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

There was no global pandemic then. 

But the hospitals are not any busier now than during any other winter. This is an annual event. 

[kila]

31 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

But the hospitals are not any busier now than during any other winter. This is an annual event. 

Just think how busy they’d be if there were no restrictions. And this is not an annual event...

[kila]

The Oxford one lasts longer though? 

[manaliveits105]

First time I’ve been keen to get a dose 

[Malinga the Swinga]

12 hours ago, weehammy said:

‘Nicola, Jason and Jeanne’? The first three names on your Christmas list.

You've got to admire CD. First name terms with them all and never fails to defend Scottish government. Blind devotion indeed.