General Election 2019

[Jambo, Goodbye]

3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

propaganda - information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

 

I'm ok with my understanding of propaganda.

 

Thank you for your replies. Take care. 

 

Best if you stop. 

 

Heaven forbid if you engaged with anyone on this forum like an actual adult. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Jambo, Goodbye

[jack D and coke]

4 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Nothing is free. I will cost tens of billions to acquire BT and Openreach just to build outdated infrastructure.

Once 5G is up and running we wont need underground cables to take us online.

It shows just how out of touch Labour are.

I dunno I think that’s a fairly decent idea. 
Not everyone can afford everything mate. WiFi might mean you can apply for jobs or just keep in touch with people if you’re on harder time’s. 
Not absolutely everything needs to be capitalised on surely? 

I read some pretty concerning stuff about 5G too. 
 

[ri Alban]

12 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What sensitive wee souls we are. It was obviously an attempt at a joke. 

Considering the levels of abuse and hatred directed by some Scots at the English (and "Brits") I am not sure we Scots are in a position to throw stones or to take umbrage.

That's fine. But replace Scots with Black. Then defend her wee joke. Joke her fecking arse.

 

 

Only an Uncle Tom would defend it.

[ri Alban]

I thought Scots weren't shipped off as slaves by Cromwell?  I'm sure I was called a liar on this, not so long ago. Ah well...

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Granted, too touchy some folks but if you could show me some evidence of a Scottish politician doing the same for balance? Have you ever wondered how the English have names for everybody, jock, paddy, taffy, frog, kraut etc etc. *What do we call them? I can’t think of any name for them for example. It’s a superiority thing imo. 
Also could she have gotten away with that if she’d been talking about one of the countries we’d invaded that the native people were brown? She wouldn’t even have dared use that language about the Irish. 
Just the scotch though eh  

*I can think of at least 50.

[jack D and coke]

6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Jeremy Corbyn Labour have done a lot of work on what and how ICT might matter into the future.

With the ownership of data, and impacts into jobs.

 

Its one of the interesting aspects of Jeremy Corbyn's labour that, like other things , never really get into public conversation.

 

I suppose the issue is we accept that pavements, roads, transport, water, gas and electricity is almost a right nowadays. Perhaps we ought to think of broadband in the same way.  

Maybe not a right but it’s becoming pretty much a necessity. It’s not the worst idea I’ve ever heard. 
If Labour would get shot of Corbyn and the likes of Abbot this would surely have been in the bag too. I can’t believe someone like David Milliband or Starmer couldn’t win this. 

[Victorian]

11 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Just checking in to see if Jo Swinson has ****ed the **** off yet?

 

Which one?     The utter absurdity or the 20 years younger + extensive plastic surgery woman on the side of the campaign bus?

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I thought Scots weren't shipped off as slaves by Cromwell?  I'm sure I was called a liar on this, not so long ago. Ah well...

The prisoners from the battle of Dunbar were interred in Durham IRC where most of them died. 

All is fair in love  and war. 

[dobmisterdobster]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Jeremy Corbyn Labour have done a lot of work on what and how ICT might matter into the future.

With the ownership of data, and impacts into jobs.

 

Its one of the interesting aspects of Jeremy Corbyn's labour that, like other things , never really get into public conversation.

 

I suppose the issue is we accept that pavements, roads, transport, water, gas and electricity is almost a right nowadays. Perhaps we ought to think of broadband in the same way.  

That's what worries me the most. State surveillance, social credit algorithms. Very sinister.

 

Transport, water, gas and electricity aren't state owned and I'm not pining for a state takeover.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

You can't seriously be defending that as some sort of joke?

Unless you think the suggestion of sending Scots to the colonies as slaves was a serious proposal for solving the West Lothian question it was as I said obviously an attempt at a joke. In bad taste yes. Unfunny yes. But then a lot of jokes are.

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

That's fine. But replace Scots with Black. Then defend her wee joke. Joke her fecking arse.

 

 

Only an Uncle Tom would defend it.

 

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I thought Scots weren't shipped off as slaves by Cromwell?  I'm sure I was called a liar on this, not so long ago. Ah well...

Where did I defend her "attempt at" joke? I merely suggested the reaction to it was maybe a bit OTT and over-sensitive.

 

And sale was not of slaves (or "temporary slaves" as I have seen it described - a contradiction in terms?) but of indentured labourers and servants, a common practice in the bad old colonial days. A system taken advantage of by Scots plantation and estate owners in the Caribbean and elsewhere. In general Scots were in numerical terms overwhelmingly slave owners not "slaves"

 

PS with you "Uncle Tom" reference you again seem to draw an analogy between the experience of Scots and African Americans. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Mikey1874]

15 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Nothing is free. I will cost tens of billions to acquire BT and Openreach just to build outdated infrastructure.

Once 5G is up and running we wont need underground cables to take us online.

It shows just how out of touch Labour are.

 

They are not out of touch in terms of under investment.

 

I can't still get my head for example round how the Conservatives promised to the 2015 election campaign (the thing that is happening now where the Conservatives are making promises) to build 200,000 affordable houses but haven't by 2019 built any.

 

Conservative Promise - 200,000

 

Conservative Delivery - 0

 

Is this a pattern?

Edited November 16, 2019 by Mikey1874

[coconut doug]

14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Unless you think the suggestion of sending Scots to the colonies as slaves was a serious proposal for solving the West Lothian question it was as I said obviously an attempt at a joke. In bad taste yes. Unfunny yes. But then a lot of jokes are.

 

I'm sure if the comments had been made about Blacks, Moslems or Jews the Tories sitting beside her would have been rolling around laughing too. It's just we small minded, bigoted Scots being over sensitive again.  

 Unless of course the comment had been made by a Scot in which case you and others would very likely be citing the comments as evidence that we Scots are the real bigots.

 

It's not a joke, it's a deliberate attempt to demean a group of people and make them appear sub human. They are Tories. It is their mindset, they have learned nothing and they continue to get away with it because of apologists like you.  

[Mikey1874]

14 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Virgin Media are doing that because they are a cable company.

 

I would really really prefer the government not to buy its way into that arena and compete. Its foolish. There are better things to spend taxpayer money on.

 

Like affordable housing?

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The prisoners from the battle of Dunbar were interred in Durham IRC where most of them died. 

All is fair in love  and war. 

Sugar plantation in the Caribbean, 50000 Scots and Irish. Up the Cromwell Republic! 👍

[ri Alban]

27 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 

Where did I defend her "attempt at" joke? I merely suggested the reaction to it was maybe a bit OTT and over-sensitive.

 

And sale was not of slaves (or "temporary slaves" as I have seen it described - a contradiction in terms?) but of indentured labourers and servants, a common practice in the bad old colonial days. A system taken advantage of by Scots plantation and estate owners in the Caribbean and elsewhere. In general Scots were in numerical terms overwhelmingly slave owners not "slaves"

 

PS with you "Uncle Tom" reference you again seem to draw an analogy between the experience of Scots and African Americans. 

Aye, and migrants from Britain are known as expats. Funny that.

[RobboM]

15 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

5G will compliment existing infrastructure for now. That doesn't mean fibre is the future.

I don't agree with spending all this money beyond 2030 just because some old misty-eyed socialist politicians are desperate to have ownership over telecoms and post offices again.

Interesting to note it was right wing extermist dogma that prevented us having a fibre broadband infrastructure decades ago. Got to wonder just how many billions that cost us.

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784

 

[dobmisterdobster]

34 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

They are not out of touch in terms of under investment.

 

I can't still get my head for example round how the Conservatives promised to the 2015 election campaign (the thing that is happening now where the Conservatives are making promises) to build 200,000 affordable houses but haven't by 2019 built any.

 

Conservative Promise - 200,000

 

Conservative Delivery - 0

 

Is this a pattern?

Affordable housing is a better policy than free broadband. Even if the Tories have failed miserably to deliver it.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

55 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

They are not out of touch in terms of under investment.

 

I can't still get my head for example round how the Conservatives promised to the 2015 election campaign (the thing that is happening now where the Conservatives are making promises) to build 200,000 affordable houses but haven't by 2019 built any.

 

Conservative Promise - 200,000

 

Conservative Delivery - 0

 

Is this a pattern?

Like their empty promises about immigration.

 

They're always full of shit, but the gullible English lap it up.

[RobboM]

21 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Affordable housing is a better policy than free broadband. Even if the Tories have failed miserably to deliver it.

Now THAT should be on the side of the Boris Bus

[Mikey1874]

Police are investigating claims made by Nigel Farage that the Conservatives offered Brexit party members favours like peerages for political advantage. 

 

Just Nigel lying as usual I think. Just doing that during an election campaign is more risky because of the law around elections. 

[Mikey1874]

53 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Like their empty promises about immigration.

 

They're always full of shit, but the gullible English lap it up.

 

Seems to be a pattern with this lot.

 

Boris Q&A yesterday answering what were good questions from the public was full of this. 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

56 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Like their empty promises about immigration.

 

They're always full of shit, but the gullible English lap it up.

Like their empty promises about the oil price,  currency, white paper, growth commission, screwing up the police, education, the NHS, being very very very very very clear on reducing the deficit, EU membership etc etc.

 

They're always full of shit, but the gullible SNP drones lap it up.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Which one?     The utter absurdity or the 20 years younger + extensive plastic surgery woman on the side of the campaign bus?

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Like their empty promises about the oil price,  currency, white paper, growth commission, screwing up the police, education, the NHS, being very very very very very clear on reducing the deficit, EU membership etc etc.

 

They're always full of shit, but the gullible SNP drones lap it up.

Stop looking at self governance through the prism of the SNP. We can vote them out with a Scottish General Election. That's the point. Do you think we could manage our own affairs through a period of transition and help Westminster to act maturely? 

[dobmisterdobster]

48 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Police are investigating claims made by Nigel Farage that the Conservatives offered Brexit party members favours like peerages for political advantage. 

 

Just Nigel lying as usual I think. Just doing that during an election campaign is more risky because of the law around elections. 

Very disappointed in Nigel. He has been a liability these past few weeks.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Like their empty promises about the oil price,  currency, white paper, growth commission, screwing up the police, education, the NHS, being very very very very very clear on reducing the deficit, EU membership etc etc.

 

They're always full of shit, but the gullible SNP drones lap it up.

Your tears and snotters are superb and it isn't even independence day yet. I'd say there's always the Samaritans. But they'd probably run oot, anaw, according to the Nawbags.

 

 

 

Oh and Tick Tock!

Edited November 16, 2019 by ri Alban

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Police are investigating claims made by Nigel Farage that the Conservatives offered Brexit party members favours like peerages for political advantage. 

 

Just Nigel lying as usual I think. Just doing that during an election campaign is more risky because of the law around elections. 

It may be lies, then again it may not be. 

When you 'characters' like Johnson and Farage involved, impropriety is generally never far behind. 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

It may be lies, then again it may not be. 

When you 'characters' like Johnson and Farage involved, impropriety is generally never far behind. 

 

It may be lies, then again it may not be. 

When you 'characters' like Salmond and Sturgeon involved (allegedly), impropriety is generally never far behind. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It may be lies, then again it may not be. 

When you 'characters' like Johnson and Farage involved, impropriety is generally never far behind. 

 

Arrogance too.

 

It's not hard to know the election law. 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 

It may be lies, then again it may not be. 

When you 'characters' like Salmond and Sturgeon involved (allegedly), impropriety is generally never far behind. 

Like a banging gate in the wind. 

 

 

 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

When's Sturgeon going to fire her latest health Minister for the child death scandal?  The apostles of SNP worship on JKB have kept discussion on that one quiet.

 

Thank the lord it didn't happen on a Labour or Tory ministers watch.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Arrogance too.

 

It's not hard to know the election law. 

Its the trumpian belief of Dom and Johnson that they are above the law. Its all about getting the result and forget the consequences. 

 

It's a common theme since they came to power. 

 

Throw in a complicit media and it's never going to go well. 

[Alan_R]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Stop looking at self governance through the prism of the SNP. We can vote them out with a Scottish General Election. That's the point. Do you think we could manage our own affairs through a period of transition and help Westminster to act maturely? 

Agree. Although no party is perfect. The SNP seem to get lambasted by unionists but they at least make a go on most of their policies.

There are countless things they have actually delivered. Like I say not perfect but they have DONE more for scotland than any of the other parties just pay lip service too.

The usual tired "SNP BAD" routine.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

When's Sturgeon going to fire her latest health Minister for the child death scandal?  The apostles of SNP worship on JKB have kept discussion on that one quiet.

 

Thank the lord it didn't happen on a Labour or Tory ministers watch.

 

 

Windrush, Yewtree, expenses fraud, benefits deaths, attacks on the disabled, Grenfell, refugees drowning, ferry companies with no ferries, offshore bank accounts, Paedo Princes, Mass Murder of Muslims in the middle East, etc... etc... Thank god it didn't happen under Labour or the Tories.

 

Wait a minute!

Edited November 16, 2019 by ri Alban

[Trapper John McIntyre]

 

[Brighton Jambo]

8 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Windrush, Yewtree, expenses fraud, benefits deaths, attacks on the disabled, Grenfell, refugees drowning, ferry companies with no ferries, offshore bank accounts, Paedo Princes, Mass Murder of Muslims in the middle East, etc... etc... Thank god it didn't happen under Labour or the Tories.

 

Wait a minute!

As much as you may dislike the current government blaming them for Prince Andrew allegedly being a seedy/randy bugger surely can be their fault!!! 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

Stop looking at Scottish independence through the prism of it being a good/relevant/neccesary/useful/urgent/helpful/peacable/decent solution. 

We're already independent. It's about governance and best use of our own resources. Running your own affairs is the best solution isn't it? All other countries do it. Quite simple really. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

18 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Like their empty promises about the oil price,  currency, white paper, growth commission, screwing up the police, education, the NHS, being very very very very very clear on reducing the deficit, EU membership etc etc.

 

They're always full of shit, but the gullible SNP drones lap it up.

I think you have me confused with a SNP supporter.

[Victorian]

Another shitshow from Andrew Marr.    Another huge disparity in scrutiny and time given to answers between the Tory (Raab) and Labour (Corbyn).     Raab allowed to avoid answers without any effort to press the question.    Corbyn often not even allowed to start an answer, never mind finish one.

 

Then again... Marr was running out of time to wrap up the programme by that time.    Something had to be sacrificed.   Marr made sure all the questions got in.    The answers were deemed unnecessary.      

[jambos are go!]

Nicola says lend us your vote to stop Brexit but won't outright deny that she will claim it is support for independence. For instance she says any party seeking SNP support at Westminster should not bother to lift the phone unless they will agree to another referendum. What if they are phoning to  stop Brexit ?

 

 Don't be hoodwinked by this deception when there are pro union parties who oppose  Brexit and oppose independence in the many marginal seats all over Scotland.

[coconut doug]

8 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Nicola says lend us your vote to stop Brexit but won't outright deny that she will claim it is support for independence. For instance she says any party seeking SNP support at Westminster should not bother to lift the phone unless they will agree to another referendum. What if they are phoning to  stop Brexit ?

 

 Don't be hoodwinked by this deception when there are pro union parties who oppose  Brexit and oppose independence in the many marginal seats all over Scotland.

 

Who are these pro union parties who oppose Brexit? i can only think of one.

[jambos are go!]

2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Who are these pro union parties who oppose Brexit? i can only think of one.

Well the Lib Dems. The Labour party is committed to another referendum and is pro union. Some of the smaller parties surely.

 

Can you now respond to my comments on the SNP trying to hoodwink the electorate.

[gjcc]

4 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

Nicola says lend us your vote to stop Brexit but won't outright deny that she will claim it is support for independence. For instance she says any party seeking SNP support at Westminster should not bother to lift the phone unless they will agree to another referendum. What if they are phoning to  stop Brexit ?

 

 Don't be hoodwinked by this deception when there are pro union parties who oppose  Brexit and oppose independence in the many marginal seats all over Scotland.

Scotland won’t immediately become independent on the back of the general election. It’ll possibly pave the way for another Indy ref. Therefore, if the Unionist mantra of “there’s not appetite for independence”,  what the hell is the problem? If unionists are so sure, they’ll breeze through another Indy ref.
 

But they don’t want one for some reason. 
 

Sh**ebags. 😉

[Phil Dunphy]

5 minutes ago, gjcc said:

But they don’t want one for some reason. 

 

I might just be speaking for myself here, but it could be that people are fed up of the constant division that these referenda bring with them.

 

It's all just boring now.

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, jambos are go! said:

Well the Lib Dems. The Labour party is committed to another referendum and is pro union. Some of the smaller parties surely.

 

Can you now respond to my comments on the SNP trying to hoodwink the electorate.

The Labour party is currently promising to negotiate a new  Brexit deal in three months and then have a referendum on that deal. How can that be opposing Brexit? The Labour party is allegedly pro union but do you honestly believe that if by some miracle they become players in a hung parliament they are going to prevent a referendum? Nicola has made it clear No referendum = No cross party agreement.

 

   "Some of the smaller parties surely", well who are they and where are they significant in the marginals? They don't exist and their is no likelyhood of any appearing in the immediate future.

 

   You seem to think that the SNP are trying to hoodwink the electorate by clearly outlining where they stand. It's a novel approach then. The SNP want independence from the UK, who knew? I think you are alluding to the dilemma that some voters may face which is how to help stop Brexit without voting for independence. They should vote Lib Dem if they find independence so unpalatable and for those less opposed to independence then they should vote for the SNP.

 

  A vote for the SNP is a vote in support of their manifesto and independence however if you think voting SNP will be the most effective way to stop Brexit (and lets face it the others have done very little) and don't want independence then you can vote against independence in the next referendum. Independence will not happen without a majority of the popular vote, surely you know this.

 

 Whichever party you vote for will entail some compromise on the voter's part despite all parties trying to be all things to all men.

Your real dilemma is that nobody is currently going to stop the SNP and that their closest rivals are the Brexit facilitators. That's not the SNP's fault.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

The Labour party is currently promising to negotiate a new  Brexit deal in three months and then have a referendum on that deal. How can that be opposing Brexit?

 

 

 

All depends on what deal you negotiate or how hard you negotiate.

Labour have made it perfectly clear for long enough that they want to stay in the single market & a customs union, therefore I can see the negotiations going something like this, which will take all of 30 seconds to agree.

 

Corbyn - We want a new deal

Michel Barnier - Ok what do you want

Corbyn - We want to stay in the single market & the customs union

Michel - Ok, sign here.

 

Corbyn - We have a great new deal, which we'll put to the people, who can choose between staying in the single market & customs union or to remain.

In other words, remain lite or remain on the ballot paper.

 

 

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

All depends on what deal you negotiate or how hard you negotiate.

Labour have made it perfectly clear for long enough that they want to stay in the single market & a customs union, therefore I can see the negotiations going something like this, which will take all of 30 seconds to agree.

 

Corbyn - We want a new deal

Michel Barnier - Ok what do you want

Corbyn - We want to stay in the single market & the customs union

Michel - Ok, sign here.

 

Corbyn - We have a great new deal, which we'll put to the people, who can choose between staying in the single market & customs union or to remain.

In other words, remain lite or remain on the ballot paper.

 

 

 

Whilst i largely agree with your scenario i think it is unlikely that Labour will win an overall majority so they will have to take account of the wishes of any coalition partners. If an agreement is made along these lines the problem will be how much will it cost us. I can't see the EU giving the UK a favourable trading deal without the UK paying an amount larger than our current contributions.In any case the EU have said, i think (and Merkel defiitely did) that no country can have the privileges of EU membership and access to the markets without taking on the responsibilities. 

 

 In short if you want a deal of this sort you have to accept freedom of movement. IMO a significant majority of UK voters primarily those located in England wont stand for it. That's why we are on the way out after all. The public have been told that Labour offers no immigration controls and that is why Labour have been hurriedly revising their policy on immigration. These new policies will not be compatible with an EU deal. 

 

  We're heading for a NO Deal situation and IMO that was always the plan for most Conservatives. There is a small but significant minority of Labour backers and MP's who are happy with this as well as a large number of Labour voters. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Whilst i largely agree with your scenario i think it is unlikely that Labour will win an overall majority so they will have to take account of the wishes of any coalition partners. If an agreement is made along these lines the problem will be how much will it cost us. I can't see the EU giving the UK a favourable trading deal without the UK paying an amount larger than our current contributions.In any case the EU have said, i think (and Merkel defiitely did) that no country can have the privileges of EU membership and access to the markets without taking on the responsibilities. 

 

 In short if you want a deal of this sort you have to accept freedom of movement. IMO a significant majority of UK voters primarily those located in England wont stand for it. That's why we are on the way out after all. The public have been told that Labour offers no immigration controls and that is why Labour have been hurriedly revising their policy on immigration. These new policies will not be compatible with an EU deal. 

 

  We're heading for a NO Deal situation and IMO that was always the plan for most Conservatives. There is a small but significant minority of Labour backers and MP's who are happy with this as well as a large number of Labour voters. 

 

Yip, can't see Labour winning at all tbh, but if they did, they'll have to enter a coalition with someone, Lib Dems well they sold their soul to the devil once and if it means gaining power then they'll do it again, heck they'll sell their own granny to get into power that lot, the SNP probably would go into a coalition with Labour, but would the English tolarate that scenario, not sure they would, so huge pressure would be put on Labour if they suggested that.

 

Despite what Labour, the Lib Dems & the SNP would want, Brexit is still the major issue of this election.

Vote Tory or the Brexit Party if you want to leave the EU, maybe with a deal maybe not, probably no deal.

Vote SNP or Lib Dems if you want to stop Brexit and stay in the EU.

And vote Labour to..............well they haven't quite made up their minds yet and it continues to change day by day, or at least that's the way it seems to us who have no affiliation to any political party and therefore have no loyalties to any of them.

[coconut doug]

15 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yip, can't see Labour winning at all tbh, but if they did, they'll have to enter a coalition with someone, Lib Dems well they sold their soul to the devil once and if it means gaining power then they'll do it again, heck they'll sell their own granny to get into power that lot, the SNP probably would go into a coalition with Labour, but would the English tolarate that scenario, not sure they would, so huge pressure would be put on Labour if they suggested that.

 

Despite what Labour, the Lib Dems & the SNP would want, Brexit is still the major issue of this election.

Vote Tory or the Brexit Party if you want to leave the EU, maybe with a deal maybe not, probably no deal.

Vote SNP or Lib Dems if you want to stop Brexit and stay in the EU.

And vote Labour to..............well they haven't quite made up their minds yet and it continues to change day by day, or at least that's the way it seems to us who have no affiliation to any political party and therefore have no loyalties to any of them.

 

Most won't get the opportunity to vote for the Brexit Party. This despite Farage describing Johnson's deal as worse than remaining in the EU. You have to wonder why he changed his mind and decided to support the deal, might it just be that he knows it has no chance of happening? Tactical voting by the Leave side will surely see them return a substantial majority.