General Election 2019

[jake]

46 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

20% of Labour MPs elected in 2017 were Oxbridge. Contrast with 34% Tory, 17% Liberal Democrat, 0% SNP.

 

Edit: source removed until I can get the link to work!

Surprised at how low that is .

Thanks for the info.

[jake]

36 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Got it. The source for the info on the social background of MPs is (pdf):

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7483/CBP-7483.pdf

Just had a quick glance but it's interesting at that.

Oxbridge mps are in fact falling.

But was it 80% are graduates .

Will have a better look later to see if most are political degrees.

That's been my impression over the last 20 years that the front benches of most parties are career politicians.

Not sure how I feel about that.

 

Anyway good link so thanks

[jake]

52 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

20% of Labour MPs elected in 2017 were Oxbridge. Contrast with 34% Tory, 17% Liberal Democrat, 0% SNP.

 

Edit: source removed until I can get the link to work!

Still 1 in 5 oxbridge mps.

How many I wonder make the front bench? 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

Tories: Invest in 5G

 

Labour: Nationalise BT/Openreach and give all households free fibre broadband which will be obsolete in a few years.

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

Not at all, I don't really see Scotland as a prisoner of a Union we set up.

But you see fit to make it literally impossible to leave? That’s not a union. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Adam Murray said:

 

I agree, it's lie after lie by many, all the time, with the media there to help.

That is why i'm saying that the Independence movement should be concentrating on the positives.

We know politicians are economical with the truth, and in this age of digital media/social media, they just can't get away with it anymore.

That is why i'm saying, rather than a tit for tat, whataboutery kind of argument, start convincing people what an Independent Scotland can offer, and not what misery Westminster or Brexit will bring us.

 

I could flip it round and say tell me the positives or remaining in this unequal “union”

One where some people would have us Imprisoned with no get out. That’s a strange kind of union to me. 
Imagine the EU made a law that any referendum needed 80%+ to leave? 
It’s sheer hypocrisy. 

[Don Dan]

All politicians lie. 
All politicians never answer the question asked.

All politicians offer utopia.

All politicians like  to political point score at every opportunity.

Lots of posters on here with great ideas and answers to the worlds woes. 
I’d love to see some of the posters on here 

stand for their respective parties and implement (or try to implement) some of the policies they champion. 
 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Dannie Boy

[RobboM]

1 hour ago, dobmisterdobster said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarity_Act

.... and there is no mention of an 80% threhold so Fake News?

 

17 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Should do what they did in Canada after the Quebec Referendum and make it 80% pass mark for leaving the Union. 

 

[RobboM]

6 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Doesn't need to. The separatists are the ones wanting to change the status quo so the onus is on them achieving the required number. Incidentally the Canadian Referendum was alot closer than the Scottish one in 2014 yet the losing side, those wanting self autonomy for Quebec, accepted the result with no calls for a rerun. 

The 1995 referendum in Quebec WAS the rerun! An earlier 1980 referendum had overwhelmingly rejected the proposition by about 60/40.

[RobboM]

It is reasonable to debate whether major constitutional changes should require a supermajority. Presumably it would be necessary to introduce such a change only with the change itself receiving the backing of a supermajority though? If that had been the case then the narrow majority to leave the EU would not have overturned the original decision to enter which was endorsed by a supermajority.

[dobmisterdobster]

27 minutes ago, RobboM said:

The 1995 referendum in Quebec WAS the rerun! An earlier 1980 referendum had overwhelmingly rejected the proposition by about 60/40.

That's still 15 years. Much longer than the SNP is willing to wait.

[Class of 75]

49 minutes ago, RobboM said:

.... and there is no mention of an 80% threhold so Fake News?

 

 

See my answer above

[Class of 75]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

But you see fit to make it literally impossible to leave? That’s not a union. 

Depends on how you view Scotland? Is it a country or a region of the UK? I see it as the latter. 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Depends on how you view Scotland? Is it a country or a region of the UK? I see it as the latter. 

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Depends on how you view Scotland? Is it a country or a region of the UK? I see it as the latter. 

Fair enough mate. 
Is Britain a region of Europe then? 

Edited November 15, 2019 by jack D and coke

[coconut doug]

3 hours ago, Adam Murray said:

 

I'm all for a rerun JD, after a period of time.

The trouble is though, the campaign for a rerun seemed to happen the day after the referendum result, and from what I've seen and heard, there's been absolutely no attempt from the broader Independence movement to convince people who voted no, to change their minds.

The main vehicle for Independence, the SNP, have done nothing to try and convince people that Independence is the way forward, their only angle seems to be that of one of grievance, with both Westminster and Brexit being the cause of all things bad to Scotland.

I'd like to see them concentrate on the positives that they can offer.

We had the National Listening exercise from the SNP, which we never got to know the results off, which i'm sure we would have heard a lot more about if they had been favourable towards Independence.

We had the SNP's own Growth Report, which was also filed away quietly as the findings weren't favourable toward Independence.

We also had claims from the FM that there would be no push for a second Indy ref until polls showed that there was a want for one, 60% i'm sure was the figure, a figure which I don't think has been anywhere near reached .

I'd love to see the SNP and the broader Independence movement  move toward a strategy of positives, to move away from the blame game, to promote the positives that an Independent Scotland can deliver, to have answers to all the similar difficulties that have arisen over Brexit.

A lot will be unclear, that is the nature of any divorce/break up, but please, let's start getting away from this blame game and negativity, from all sides, and start promoting positives, truthful policies which will have a positive effect on people's lives.

 

Clearly there was not a demand for a rerun the day after the referendum result. In this article Nicola is being accused of 

"playing down the prospect of an imminent re-run of last year's ballot". https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13877169.snp-want-polls-to-show-60-support-for-independence-for-a-whole-year-before-calling-referendum/ 

   The article goes on to point out that in order to justify a new referendum the SNP state there would have to be sustained support of around 60% for independence unless Scotland was pulled out of the EU against Scotland's wishes. I think that maybe about to happen and so the SNP on this basis at least would be entitled to push for a second referendum. 

    We are constantly told that the SNP and Indy supporters base their arguments on grievance perhaps you could be more specific as to which areas these grievances are being pursued and why you think they are not justified. 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Im not sure he’s trolling. 
I genuinely know people who don’t even care about Scotland as such. Rangers fans mostly but Hearts have them too. It’s Britain and we’re just the north part of it. 
It’s a bizarre notion to me that Scotland pretty much doesn’t exist but everybody entitled to their opinion. 

[DETTY29]

Scotland's a non-sovereign nation,country?

[doctor jambo]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

One thing in the Scottish context is that if there is going to be big increases in public spending whether its Conservatives or Labour then that means a lot more money for Scotland too.

 

Presumably everyone here should be happy about that. 

Not really......

it has to come from somewhere.

The last SNP tax rise to generate more income to spend for the government caused a drop in tax take of £100 million.

I'm not sure where they can raise the countless billions than are being promised from.

Tax rises don't work, trying to collar multinationals does not work, reducing spending does not work.

So it looks like government borrowing then!

[RobboM]

A summary of Boris Johnson being grilled on Breakfast TV
 

Q. Figures released yesterday show key targets for cancer, hospital care and A&E have been missed for over three years - with delays for hospital care and in A&E hitting their highest levels since both targets were introduced.The Tory government has been in power for 10 years, what are you doing about this mess?

A. I released a video yesterday showing me making a cup of tea and leaving the tea bag in!

Follow up Q. Ooooh let's talk about the tea bag!

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, RobboM said:

A summary of Boris Johnson being grilled on Breakfast TV
 

Q. Figures released yesterday show key targets for cancer, hospital care and A&E have been missed for over three years - with delays for hospital care and in A&E hitting their highest levels since both targets were introduced.The Tory government has been in power for 10 years, what are you doing about this mess?

A. I released a video yesterday showing me making a cup of tea and leaving the tea bag in!

Follow up Q. Ooooh let's talk about the tea bag!

 

Flannel to every question.

 

But if he is trusted and liked more than Jeremy Corbyn then he can win. 

[Mikey1874]

Donald Trump is making a pre election visit (NATO summit).

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Edinburgh election candidates 

 

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/2791/edinburgh_s_uk_parliamentary_election_candidates_announced

[Class of 75]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Fair enough mate. 
Is Britain a region of Europe then? 

It will be somewhere down the line. 

[Class of 75]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Im not sure he’s trolling. 
I genuinely know people who don’t even care about Scotland as such. Rangers fans mostly but Hearts have them too. It’s Britain and we’re just the north part of it. 
It’s a bizarre notion to me that Scotland pretty much doesn’t exist but everybody entitled to their opinion. 

Guys I am not a troll it's just my opinion. In all seriousness I am patriotic I just don't believe the best way forward is for Scotland to be independent. 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Guys I am not a troll it's just my opinion. In all seriousness I am patriotic I just don't believe the best way forward is for Scotland to be independent. 

Yeah thats fair enough man, you’re entitled to your opinion. 

[Ray Gin]

 

Never forget the contempt that the Tories have for Scotland. ****s

Edited November 15, 2019 by Ray Gin

[Francis Albert]

Over-reliance on internet sources for news, particularly among the young, troubles me. The first thing I saw today on logging on was a news item about Rod Stewart's expressed views on Scottish independence, Brexit and Boris Johnson. This was the lead news item. Now why Rod Stewart's views should be headlined is one thing. But the opening words were "Rolling Stones singer Rod Stewart …" If they can't get that right what can you believe? It took several hours for it to be corrected to "Maggie May singer". 

[RobboM]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Over-reliance on internet sources for news, particularly among the young, troubles me. The first thing I saw today on logging on was a news item about Rod Stewart's expressed views on Scottish independence, Brexit and Boris Johnson. This was the lead news item. Now why Rod Stewart's views should be headlined is one thing. But the opening words were "Rolling Stones singer Rod Stewart …" If they can't get that right what can you believe? It took several hours for it to be corrected to "Maggie May singer". 

Agreed Francis

It's the triumph of trivia. In response to a serious question on A&E repsonse times on BBC Breakfast, Boris Johnson launched into a rambling story about a barbeque he was at and describing a cafetiere and trampling on that and cutting his foot and how wonderful his local hospital were in dealing with that.

We're being played!

[Francis Albert]

32 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Never forget the contempt that the Tories have for Scotland. ****s

What sensitive wee souls we are. It was obviously an attempt at a joke. 

Considering the levels of abuse and hatred directed by some Scots at the English (and "Brits") I am not sure we Scots are in a position to throw stones or to take umbrage.

[maroonlegions]

[maroonlegions]

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What sensitive wee souls we are. It was obviously an attempt at a joke. 

Considering the levels of abuse and hatred directed by some Scots at the English (and "Brits") I am not sure we Scots are in a position to throw stones or to take umbrage.

 

SLAVERY LOL

 

Typical Tory stuff. 

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What sensitive wee souls we are. It was obviously an attempt at a joke. 

Considering the levels of abuse and hatred directed by some Scots at the English (and "Brits") I am not sure we Scots are in a position to throw stones or to take umbrage.

Granted, too touchy some folks but if you could show me some evidence of a Scottish politician doing the same for balance? Have you ever wondered how the English have names for everybody, jock, paddy, taffy, frog, kraut etc etc. What do we call them? I can’t think of any name for them for example. It’s a superiority thing imo. 
Also could she have gotten away with that if she’d been talking about one of the countries we’d invaded that the native people were brown? She wouldn’t even have dared use that language about the Irish. 
Just the scotch though eh  

Edited November 15, 2019 by jack D and coke

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Depends on how you view Scotland? Is it a country or a region of the UK? I see it as the latter. 

 

You can see a horse as a big dug, but it's still a horse. And Scotland's still a country.

[Victorian]

Reasonable proposal to part-nationalise in order to provide a genuine,  proven economy driver like full and free broadband.     Nah... communist.

 

Tory supporting boot.      Oh anything that's free wont be any good.    Oh it will be fine for poor households but I can't see it being much use for business.

 

[Unknown user]

7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I could flip it round and say tell me the positives or remaining in this unequal “union”

One where some people would have us Imprisoned with no get out. That’s a strange kind of union to me. 
Imagine the EU made a law that any referendum needed 80%+ to leave? 
It’s sheer hypocrisy. 

 

Imagine scotland was independent, how do you think you'd get on convincing people this version of a union was a good idea?

[dobmisterdobster]

15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Reasonable proposal to part-nationalise in order to provide a genuine,  proven economy driver like full and free broadband.     Nah... communist.

 

Tory supporting boot.      Oh anything that's free wont be any good.    Oh it will be fine for poor households but I can't see it being much use for business.

 

Nothing is free. I will cost tens of billions to acquire BT and Openreach just to build outdated infrastructure.

Once 5G is up and running we wont need underground cables to take us online.

It shows just how out of touch Labour are.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, maroonlegions said:

[RobboM]

16 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Nothing is free. I will cost tens of billions to acquire BT and Openreach just to build outdated infrastructure.

Once 5G is up and running we wont need underground cables to take us online.

It shows just how out of touch Labour are.

You sure?

" What 5G broadband (aka 5G Fixed Wireless Access, or FWA) will actually do is replace that ‘final mile’ physical connection with a wireless 5G network connection. The vast majority of these 5G networks will use largely the same kind of physical fibre connections as standard fixed broadband. "
https://5g.co.uk/guides/5g-vs-fibre-broadband/

[jake]

18 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Nothing is free. I will cost tens of billions to acquire BT and Openreach just to build outdated infrastructure.

Once 5G is up and running we wont need underground cables to take us online.

It shows just how out of touch Labour are.

Mate virgin are not investing in fibre optics underground for nothing.

 

Yes 5g is on the way but hard connect isn't going away soon.

 

I am not a particular fan of Corbyn but the communist chat and their little lib dem Lick bums are way off.

 

Decent  proposal from Labour and we need more .

Infrastructure keeps nations wealthy.

[Adam Murray]

7 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Clearly there was not a demand for a rerun the day after the referendum result. In this article Nicola is being accused of 

"playing down the prospect of an imminent re-run of last year's ballot". https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13877169.snp-want-polls-to-show-60-support-for-independence-for-a-whole-year-before-calling-referendum/ 

   The article goes on to point out that in order to justify a new referendum the SNP state there would have to be sustained support of around 60% for independence unless Scotland was pulled out of the EU against Scotland's wishes. I think that maybe about to happen and so the SNP on this basis at least would be entitled to push for a second referendum. 

    We are constantly told that the SNP and Indy supporters base their arguments on grievance perhaps you could be more specific as to which areas these grievances are being pursued and why you think they are not justified. 

 

Will get back to you as soon as I can CD, I'm away for the weekend 

[dobmisterdobster]

37 minutes ago, jake said:

Mate virgin are not investing in fibre optics underground for nothing.

 

Yes 5g is on the way but hard connect isn't going away soon.

 

I am not a particular fan of Corbyn but the communist chat and their little lib dem Lick bums are way off.

 

Decent  proposal from Labour and we need more .

Infrastructure keeps nations wealthy.

Virgin Media are doing that because they are a cable company.

 

I would really really prefer the government not to buy its way into that arena and compete. Its foolish. There are better things to spend taxpayer money on.

[dobmisterdobster]

41 minutes ago, RobboM said:

You sure?

" What 5G broadband (aka 5G Fixed Wireless Access, or FWA) will actually do is replace that ‘final mile’ physical connection with a wireless 5G network connection. The vast majority of these 5G networks will use largely the same kind of physical fibre connections as standard fixed broadband. "
https://5g.co.uk/guides/5g-vs-fibre-broadband/

5G will compliment existing infrastructure for now. That doesn't mean fibre is the future.

I don't agree with spending all this money beyond 2030 just because some old misty-eyed socialist politicians are desperate to have ownership over telecoms and post offices again.

[AlphonseCapone]

Just checking in to see if Jo Swinson has ****ed the **** off yet?

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Imagine scotland was independent, how do you think you'd get on convincing people this version of a union was a good idea?

Yeah bang on mate.  
They can’t sell it now it’s only lasting because people are afraid. 
One thing I’ll give the English is they’re not afraid. They’ve never really been a beaten population like us though.
They’d **** us, wales and NI off in a heartbeat. 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What sensitive wee souls we are. It was obviously an attempt at a joke. 

Considering the levels of abuse and hatred directed by some Scots at the English (and "Brits") I am not sure we Scots are in a position to throw stones or to take umbrage.

No need to be an apologist. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

Man jailed for threatening to 'cut' Tory MP Lucy Frazer. 

Zackary Welsh, 23, left the message for South East Cambridgeshire MP Lucy Frazer after comments she made about Scotland.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/man-jailed-for-threatening-to-cut-tory-mp-lucy-frazer-1-4586054

 

Stupid woman and even more stupid person wanting to commit harm. Westminster is divorced from reality, hence multi issues and I want out! 

[Jambo, Goodbye]

2 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

propaganda

/prɒpəˈɡandə/

noun

1. 

information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

That's what I said 🙄 

Did you even attempt to read my post? 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Jambo, Goodbye

[Jambo, Goodbye]

23 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

No. You said 'The definition of propaganda is that it's biased or misleading. If it happened, it's by definition, not propaganda.'

 



 

If it's factually true,  it can't be biased. The truth is impartial. 

 

If it's factually true,  it certainly can't be misleading. 

The truth is honorable