Haringshairband Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Spoleto said: Except perhaps temper peoples behaviour until Levein or Ann decide the time is right for managerial change. The managership of Hearts should not be decided by Hearts fans with loud voices. That's exactly the sort of sycophantic pish that has led to the current malaise around the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Pretty ambiguous statement to say divided opinion. What percentage would you say we are at just now. Stay v Go? What's the question? Go when? Now, Christmas, end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, Spoleto said: What's the question? Go when? Now, Christmas, end of the season. You know the question. You are trying to turn it into a different question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said: I am shocked that you have replied,utterly shocked......Its an 8 month thread 🙈 I don't see what the number of months has got to do with anything either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, GinRummy said: You know the question. You are trying to turn it into a different question. Well if it's a straight stay or go then the question isn't going to be answered as it's not a case of black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Haringshairband said: That's exactly the sort of sycophantic pish that has led to the current malaise around the club. It seems like common sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Must keep the pressure on. Apathy will allow this to drag on and on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, Spoleto said: Well if it's a straight stay or go then the question isn't going to be answered as it's not a case of black and white. Pretty much what I’d expect when you’re asked a straight question. It may not be black and white to you or even on kickback but the overwhelming majority of hearts fans would want Levein gone today imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: Pretty much what I’d expect when you’re asked a straight question. It may not be black and white to you or even on kickback but the overwhelming majority of hearts fans would want Levein gone today imo. I think you are right but the issue is that others want to conflate other issues into it. As well as remove Levein some want to remove Budge, get rid of the whole coaching set up, get rid of the board, get rid if that community centre we apparently have etc.. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Pretty much what I’d expect when you’re asked a straight question. It may not be black and white to you or even on kickback but the overwhelming majority of hearts fans would want Levein gone today imo. If that's what you think. I don't agree. I think most fans would want to know that the board have a plan is in place before CL moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, davemclaren said: I think you are right but the issue is that others want to conflate other issues into it. As well as remove Levein some want to remove Budge, get rid of the whole coaching set up, get rid of the board, get rid if that community centre we apparently have etc.. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. It just becomes silly season I agree. I posted on a couple of the threads about AB that trying to broaden the issue loses support for the ‘Levein outers’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spoleto said: If that's what you think. I don't agree. I think most fans would want to know that the board have a plan is in place before CL moves on. Do you have many friends or family members who are hearts fans? The reason I ask is because all the hearts fans I know just want him gone. I’m not suggesting that’s a fair poll of hearts fans I just find your third paragraph extremely unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, GinRummy said: It just becomes silly season I agree. I posted on a couple of the threads about AB that trying to broaden the issue loses support for the ‘Levein outers’ I think it will dilute the support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: I think it will dilute the support it. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I think you are right but the issue is that others want to conflate other issues into it. As well as remove Levein some want to remove Budge, get rid of the whole coaching set up, get rid of the board, get rid if that community centre we apparently have etc.. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. Budge has caused herself a problem by backing a situation which is clearly untenable. She’s well in credit with me but her credibility is suffering. In terms of Levein, the coaching set up and the recruitment department, there’s simply no debate to be had about whether it’s failing. It blatantly is and to suggest otherwise is to muddy some crystal clear waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Do you have many friends or family members who are hearts fans? The reason I ask is because all the hearts fans I know just want him gone. I’m not suggesting that’s a fair poll of hearts fans I just find your third paragraph extremely unlikely. You said "gone today". I've already said several times why I don't agree with that and many others have said the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Budge has caused herself a problem by backing a situation which is clearly untenable. She’s well in credit with me but her credibility is suffering. In terms of Levein, the coaching set up and the recruitment department, there’s simply no debate to be had about whether it’s failing. It blatantly is and to suggest otherwise is to muddy some crystal clear waters. So everyone that wants Levein out wants to sack all the coaches and academy staff as well? Surely the new manager should make those decisions and who runs the footbsll side until that person is in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Budge has caused herself a problem by backing a situation which is clearly untenable. She’s well in credit with me but her credibility is suffering. In terms of Levein, the coaching set up and the recruitment department, there’s simply no debate to be had about whether it’s failing. It blatantly is and to suggest otherwise is to muddy some crystal clear waters. "the coaching set up and the recruitment department, there’s simply no debate to be had about whether it’s failing" Really? You don't think that opinion is debatable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, Spoleto said: You said "gone today". I've already said several times why I don't agree with that and many others have said the same. A few people on kickback have said it. You must be aware it’s now Avery small minority that don’t want him out immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 As a word of warning if Ann Budge goes then potentially the FoH money is pointless and fan ownership is over. She can sell if she wants to whom ever she wants. It’s unlikely she will unless the abuse gets worse. Its obvious to everyone one who cares for Hearts that CL must step away from the dug out and the coaching staff also need to vacate the premises. They’ve had enough time and enough transfer windows now. Injuries are no long an excuse as we’ve proved in rare occasions that with or without these players we can turn up and perform. That alone tells you he can’t motivate these players week in and week out and 9/10 times he gets the tactics and formation horribly wrong. Over the last year we’ve seen many a halftime change.. why because he got it all wrong from kick off. Theres no defending him or the coaches... time is very much up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: So everyone that wants Levein out wants to sack all the coaches and academy staff as well? Surely the new manager should make those decisions and who runs the footbsll side until that person is in place? I’ve got no view on the academy. That might be working well in terms of coaching. I genuinely don’t know. I see the point of a short term caretaker if we’re making a permanent appointment. Fair enough if Daly or whoever sticks around for that. But it’s simply ludicrous to say that any of the first team coaching staff can be untouched by all this. They’re either part of the problem or they are contributing nothing, which is the same thing. What we should be doing now is appointing an external candidate as a caretaker to the end of the season, unless there’s somebody outstanding out there. Take our time and plan it properly. But absolutely without Levein and his crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Spoleto said: "the coaching set up and the recruitment department, there’s simply no debate to be had about whether it’s failing" Really? You don't think that opinion is debatable? No I don’t. It’s like debating whether climate change is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Rudy T said: As a word of warning if Ann Budge goes then potentially the FoH money is pointless and fan ownership is over. She can sell if she wants to whom ever she wants. It’s unlikely she will unless the abuse gets worse. Its obvious to everyone one who cares for Hearts that CL must step away from the dug out and the coaching staff also need to vacate the premises. They’ve had enough time and enough transfer windows now. Injuries are no long an excuse as we’ve proved in rare occasions that with or without these players we can turn up and perform. That alone tells you he can’t motivate these players week in and week out and 9/10 times he gets the tactics and formation horribly wrong. Over the last year we’ve seen many a halftime change.. why because he got it all wrong from kick off. Theres no defending him or the coaches... time is very much up! Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I’ve got no view on the academy. That might be working well in terms of coaching. I genuinely don’t know. I see the point of a short term caretaker if we’re making a permanent appointment. Fair enough if Daly or whoever sticks around for that. But it’s simply ludicrous to say that any of the first team coaching staff can be untouched by all this. They’re either part of the problem or they are contributing nothing, which is the same thing. What we should be doing now is appointing an external candidate as a caretaker to the end of the season, unless there’s somebody outstanding out there. Take our time and plan it properly. But absolutely without Levein and his crew. So an intirem coach recruits a short term crew? 🤷🏼♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rudy T said: As a word of warning if Ann Budge goes then potentially the FoH money is pointless and fan ownership is over. She can sell if she wants to whom ever she wants. It’s unlikely she will unless the abuse gets worse. Its obvious to everyone one who cares for Hearts that CL must step away from the dug out and the coaching staff also need to vacate the premises. They’ve had enough time and enough transfer windows now. Injuries are no long an excuse as we’ve proved in rare occasions that with or without these players we can turn up and perform. That alone tells you he can’t motivate these players week in and week out and 9/10 times he gets the tactics and formation horribly wrong. Over the last year we’ve seen many a halftime change.. why because he got it all wrong from kick off. Theres no defending him or the coaches... time is very much up! Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: So an intirem coach recruits a short term crew? 🤷🏼♂️ Until the end of the season. Or do these guys genuinely have jobs for life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rudy T said: As a word of warning if Ann Budge goes then potentially the FoH money is pointless and fan ownership is over. She can sell if she wants to whom ever she wants. It’s unlikely she will unless the abuse gets worse. Its obvious to everyone one who cares for Hearts that CL must step away from the dug out and the coaching staff also need to vacate the premises. They’ve had enough time and enough transfer windows now. Injuries are no long an excuse as we’ve proved in rare occasions that with or without these players we can turn up and perform. That alone tells you he can’t motivate these players week in and week out and 9/10 times he gets the tactics and formation horribly wrong. Over the last year we’ve seen many a halftime change.. why because he got it all wrong from kick off. Theres no defending him or the coaches... time is very much up! I think there is a legal contract that she must sell to FoH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Until the end of the season. Or do these guys genuinely have jobs for life? I don't see the point in firing them all then trying to recruit coaches for 6 months only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, davemclaren said: I don't see the point in firing them all then trying to recruit coaches for 6 months only. Because appointing mid season forces a quick judgement. The time to plan ahead to next summer would be an advantage. And let’s face it, the season’s screwed. This lot don’t deserve to retain their jobs. They are demonstrably failing. We’re acting like a charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Because appointing mid season forces a quick judgement. The time to plan ahead to next summer would be an advantage. And let’s face it, the season’s screwed. This lot don’t deserve to retain their jobs. They are demonstrably failing. We’re acting like a charity. Be interesting to see who we could get in on a six month fixed contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, davemclaren said: Be interesting to see who we could get in on a six month fixed contract. Wouldn’t be a huge pool to pick from, admittedly. But people seem to be looking for all the excuses under the sun to keep this coaching team in place. Very bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, GinRummy said: A few people on kickback have said it. You must be aware it’s now Avery small minority that don’t want him out immediately. No I don't agree. Sorry, it really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Wouldn’t be a huge pool to pick from, admittedly. But people seem to be looking for all the excuses under the sun to keep this coaching team in place. Very bizarre. I just think you have to be pragmatic. 😎 Maybe any new manager might want to keep some? Costs a lot of money to get rid of 6 people or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, Spoleto said: No I don't agree. Sorry, it really is that simple. Fair enough. I wonder how a poll on here would go. Stay/leave now/leave when board have a plan in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, davemclaren said: I just think you have to be pragmatic. 😎 Maybe any new manager might want to keep some? Costs a lot of money to get rid of 6 people or whatever. It does, in the same way it costs to move on a load of failed signings. That’s the price of underachievement. The bottom line at the moment - there is literally no consequence for this prolonged period of under-achievement. That’s very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said: Not true. Which bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I’ve got no view on the academy. That might be working well in terms of coaching. I genuinely don’t know. I see the point of a short term caretaker if we’re making a permanent appointment. Fair enough if Daly or whoever sticks around for that. But it’s simply ludicrous to say that any of the first team coaching staff can be untouched by all this. They’re either part of the problem or they are contributing nothing, which is the same thing. What we should be doing now is appointing an external candidate as a caretaker to the end of the season, unless there’s somebody outstanding out there. Take our time and plan it properly. But absolutely without Levein and his crew. So first of all you say "it's not debatable" and now you are saying that "it's ludicrous to say that any of the first team coaching staff can be untouched by all this". You hold very strong opinions. I think others may disagree with you, I certainly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: It does, in the same way it costs to move on a load of failed signings. That’s the price of underachievement. The bottom line at the moment - there is literally no consequence for this prolonged period of under-achievement. That’s very wrong. I would let the new manager decide which players to move on as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I would let the new manager decide which players to move on as well. 100%. But that’s a very different discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spoleto said: So first of all you say "it's not debatable" and now you are saying that "it's ludicrous to say that any of the first team coaching staff can be untouched by all this". You hold very strong opinions. I think others may disagree with you, I certainly do. Fair enough. Explain to me which coaching staff should stay and what their positive contribution to this run has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spoleto said: So first of all you say "it's not debatable" and now you are saying that "it's ludicrous to say that any of the first team coaching staff can be untouched by all this". You hold very strong opinions. I think others may disagree with you, I certainly do. He also spouted 'they are either part of the problem or contributing nothing which is the same thing' Hard to dispute nonsense like that...because it is nonsense and makes no sense I think Dusk needs a little help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Because appointing mid season forces a quick judgement. The time to plan ahead to next summer would be an advantage. And let’s face it, the season’s screwed. This lot don’t deserve to retain their jobs. They are demonstrably failing. We’re acting like a charity. "We're acting like a charity" I take it by that you mean the club, not the royal "we" 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, CJGJ said: He also spouted 'they are either part of the problem or contributing nothing which is the same thing' Hard to dispute nonsense like that...because it is nonsense and makes no sense I think Dusk needs a little help There are some people who need help on here my friend, and I’m not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoleto Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Fair enough. Explain to me which coaching staff should stay and what their positive contribution to this run has been. I don't work for Hearts (contrary to popular belief 🙂 ) so I wouldn't be in.a position to know. I suspect that you are equally ignorant (not an attack) of the coaching situation at Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Spoleto said: "We're acting like a charity" I take it by that you mean the club, not the royal "we" 🙂 Come on: Which coaches should stay and on what basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I think there is a legal contract that she must sell to FoH. There is an agreement that bidco will transfer the holding to FoH when the original loan is paid. If that’s in doubt Ann can do what she wants. With the way things are going if we fail to get to the point when the loan is due she could well sell to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: There are some people who need help on here my friend, and I’m not one of them. I think you should consider it given your 'no sense statement' Help is out there..you just need to ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I don't see the point in firing them all then trying to recruit coaches for 6 months only. Yip. It's complicated. Who's gonna take a job for 6 months? Any person excepting such a contract from Hearts will surely be of questionable quality. How invested would such a person or a team be? The new manager still has our Injuries to deal with as well. How will guys like Souttar, Naismith, Cochrane and Hickey react? I believe Craig has ties with some of these guys families. How will new signings react to a manager going after 8 league games? If Macphee goes, what about Meshino, Smith and Washington? It might be inevitable that he has to go but things could get worse and there are various things to work out on what to do next, which the club must think about and implement even if some fans just think CL and his team walking away makes it all good. Edited October 13, 2019 by Smith's right boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rudy T said: Which bit? FOH have already started the process of paying off Bidco of which Ann Budge is the director,FOH have also played over £3 million towards the redevelopment fund,the clock is ticking down until the FOH takeover,the contract is signed for Bidco to hand over controlof Hearts to the FOH,to say that Ann can sell to whoever she wants is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Spoleto said: I don't work for Hearts (contrary to popular belief 🙂 ) so I wouldn't be in.a position to know. I suspect that you are equally ignorant (not an attack) of the coaching situation at Hearts. So on the Levein and co out side of the debate, we’ve got an appalling spate of form which has gone unchecked for ages. On the Levein and co in side of the debate, we’ve got undefined and unexplained reasons why they’re actually good and effective. Can you offer any more than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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