Levein’s time is up...

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

Of course, all we need to do is beat rangers then Celtic  what actual planet are you on pal? 

 

 

 I bet  you've accused the team or CL for being a loser as well and having no fight. 

 

Irony at it's finest. 

 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

 I bet  you've accused the team or CL for being a loser as well and having no fight. 

 

Irony at it's finest. 

 

 

The team has no fight.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

 

The team has no fight.

 

 

Aye it does. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Aye it does. 

 

Ok. Which utterly gutless performance would you like to use as an example?

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, GinRummy said:

 

Ok. Which utterly gutless performance would you like to use as an example?

 

Hibs, Aberdeen. 

 

Down in both, won. 

👍

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Hibs, Aberdeen. 

 

Down in both, won. 

👍

 

Fair. Add in the Aberdeen game at Pittodrie and Motherwell at Fir Park.

 

They've not shown any fight or determination in any of the other games. Why not?

[Spoleto]

15 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Last question.  What are the positives when it comes to the first team over the last three years?  Forget the cups loses for a minute and point out any positives when it comes to the league.  There aren't any.  

 

I can think of seven or 8 positives if they hadn't got injured.

[Spoleto]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

 

Fair. Add in the Aberdeen game at Pittodrie and Motherwell at Fir Park.

 

They've not shown any fight or determination in any of the other games. Why not?

 

"They've not shown any fight or determination" ?

 

Are you sure about that?

[GinRummy]

Just now, Spoleto said:

 

I can think of seven or 8 positives if they hadn't got injured.

 

They did get injured though. The manager and the coaches then have the task of getting the best out of the players they have left. How do you think they have done?

[GinRummy]

Just now, Spoleto said:

 

"They've not shown any fight or determination" ?

 

Are you sure about that?

 

Yeah I'm positive. Totally gutless. Disgraceful.

[Notts1874]

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

Fair. Add in the Aberdeen game at Pittodrie and Motherwell at Fir Park.

 

They've not shown any fight or determination in any of the other games. Why not?

 

 

I think it's more to do with injuries, confidence, individual mistakes and some weird team selections (Killie) as opposed to fight tbh. 

 

Plenty huffing and puffing imo. 

 

 

 

[Spoleto]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

Yeah I'm positive. Totally gutless. Disgraceful.

 

I think that's a lazy attack on your part.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Spoleto said:

 

I think that's a lazy attack on your part.

 

It's not. It's what I've observed watching our games.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I think it's more to do with injuries, confidence, individual mistakes and some weird team selections (Killie) as opposed to fight tbh. 

 

Plenty huffing and puffing imo. 

 

 

 

 

I agree these things play a part but there have been occasions where the players just seem to have given up.

[Pasquale for King]

40 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

You will never get anywhere with him mate.

 

I had to put him on ignore

Me too 

[Debut 4]

17 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

Fair. Add in the Aberdeen game at Pittodrie and Motherwell at Fir Park.

 

They've not shown any fight or determination in any of the other games. Why not?

It’s probably a mix of failings which has been discussed for months but I think a big thing is a lack of ingrained workrate, on and off the ball. 

 

That could stem from not being a strategy the management work on or the strategy and style they implement doesn’t enhance that side of the game. 

 

Or it could be some players don’t have it naturally in them. If that’s the case ,it’s the sole biggest thing that should be drummed in. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Debut 4

[GinRummy]

Just now, Debut 4 said:

It’s probably a mix of failings which has been discussed for months but I think a big thing is a lack of ingrained workrate, on and off the ball. 

 

That could stem from not being a strategy the management work on or the strategy and style they implement doesn’t focus on that.

 

Or it could be some players don’t have it naturally in them. If that’s the case ,it’s the sole biggest thing that should be drummed in. 

 

 

 

Fair comments. The off the ball stuff is very frustrating. Players just standing around being marked is a continual bugbear.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, FruitJuice said:

It's not a personal agenda against him, its questioning his ability to sign players and improve them. Who have we signed from lower league clubs and then moved on for a profit? Sow? 

Absolutely correct, even Sow was from Crystal Palace so not a lower league club. We have made a bit of profit from Lafferty,Isma,Rossi etc. He can’t take credit for the compensation we received  for Walker and Paterson surely?

His big plan, what he failed to do as a player, move to a bigger club, what he achieved as a manager, has had a little success but mostly failure, like his career.

[Rudy T]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Me too 

 

Incredible this is allowed to go on. It’s just so obvious. I tried to help last night but ignored and so it goes on.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s probably a mix of failings which has been discussed for months but I think a big thing is a lack of ingrained workrate, on and off the ball. 

 

That could stem from not being a strategy the management work on or the strategy and style they implement doesn’t enhance that side of the game. 

 

Or it could be some players don’t have it naturally in them. If that’s the case ,it’s the sole biggest thing that should be drummed in. 

 

 

Absolutely, no movement is incredibly frustrating to watch.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

 

Incredible this is allowed to go on. It’s just so obvious. I tried to help last night but ignored and so it goes on.

It’s not an easy thing to do either.

[Spoleto]

14 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

It's not. It's what I've observed watching our games.

 

I think if you go back over the last year and look at our possession stats for all the games you won't find many where we have lost out on possession. 

 

And before you say it - I know, possession stats aren't everything but they ARE an indicator.

[Bazzas right boot]

25 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

I agree these things play a part but there have been occasions where the players just seem to have given up.

 

I honestly think that is the only thing that hasn't happened! 

😕

[FruitJuice]

37 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

I can think of seven or 8 positives if they hadn't got injured.

 

37 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

I can think of seven or 8 positives if they hadn't got injured.

So no positives, just ifs and buts.  Any league positives that have actually happened.  I'll start with last seasons nine game run.  What else?

[GinRummy]

13 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

I think if you go back over the last year and look at our possession stats for all the games you won't find many where we have lost out on possession. 

 

And before you say it - I know, possession stats aren't everything but they ARE an indicator.

fancy doing that for me please. I can’t be bothered checking a years worth of possession stats. 

[Bazzas right boot]

23 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s probably a mix of failings which has been discussed for months but I think a big thing is a lack of ingrained workrate, on and off the ball. 

 

That could stem from not being a strategy the management work on or the strategy and style they implement doesn’t enhance that side of the game. 

 

Or it could be some players don’t have it naturally in them. If that’s the case ,it’s the sole biggest thing that should be drummed in. 

 

 

 

 

Our movement can be poor, but tbh that is true for most teams. 

 

Aberdeen and Hibs for example, are similar. 

 

I think it's a Scottish thing rather than just us. 

 

Our national team is also poor in that area when compared to their peers. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I honestly think that is the only thing that hasn't happened! 

😕

Ok. If that’s how you see it. I personally can’t see how anyone can be happy with the overall effort in some games. 

[FruitJuice]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Our movement can be poor, but tbh that is true for most teams. 

 

Aberdeen and Hibs for example, are similar. 

 

I think it's a Scottish thing rather than just us. 

 

Our national team is also poor in that area when compared to their peers. 

Whataboutery?  

[karipidis]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Ok. If that’s how you see it. I personally can’t see how anyone can be happy with the overall effort in some games. 

even levein wasn’t happy with the effort in the last game..

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, karipidis said:

even levein wasn’t happy with the effort in the last game..

good point. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, FruitJuice said:

You still choosing to ignore the last three league positions?  We don't have to spend like rangers if we didn't sign injury prone players and our manager deciding to have a less cautious approach to games.  He has never won a single trophy with his approach and still he perseveres with it.  It's also impacting on the fans enjoyment at games.  There are no positives just now when it comes to the first team and there hasn't been for over two years.  Now back to those league positions.  Agree that we've been shite in the league for over two years with the same manager?

What is your definition of an injury prone player?

Which injury prone players did we sign?

 

I an not aware of any particular injury history relating to Berra, Souttar, Haring, Uche, Halkett, Garruccio,Washington and our 3 current goalkeepers before we signed them.  The only ones I think might fall into your category are White and Naismith but as we paid no transfer fee for either, it was maybe thought to be a calculated risk worth taking

[gowestjambo]

33 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

I think if you go back over the last year and look at our possession stats for all the games you won't find many where we have lost out on possession. 

 

And before you say it - I know, possession stats aren't everything but they ARE an indicator.

 

Possession whilst kicking the ball backwards and sideways at the back in front of the opposition, is meaningless.

[FruitJuice]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

What is your definition of an injury prone player?

Which injury prone players did we sign?

 

I an not aware of any particular injury history relating to Berra, Souttar, Haring, Uche, Halkett, Garruccio,Washington and our 3 current goalkeepers before we signed them.  The only ones I think might fall into your category are White and Naismith but as we paid no transfer fee for either, it was maybe thought to be a calculated risk worth taking

It was white and Naismith that I was thinking about so maybe not as much as I thought.  Doesn't mean that we can't change our style to be less cautious.  

[Nookie Bear]

16 minutes ago, karipidis said:

even levein wasn’t happy with the effort in the last game..

 

I didn;t notice much less effort than usual, i just thought we looked a bit aimless, with a couple of players looking lost (Mulraney, Hickey, Clare and Meshino in particular).

 

For me, a disorganised team always looks a yard off the pace compared to a well-drilled outfit.

[Spoleto]

8 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Possession whilst kicking the ball backwards and sideways at the back in front of the opposition, is meaningless.

 

Thanks for confirming what I said. Stats aren't everything, but they ARE an indicator.

[Nookie Bear]

 

31 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Our movement can be poor, but tbh that is true for most teams. 

 

Aberdeen and Hibs for example, are similar. 

 

I think it's a Scottish thing rather than just us. 

 

Our national team is also poor in that area when compared to their peers. 

 

We only had 3 Scots starting v Killie.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Nookie Bear

[Nookie Bear]

12 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

What is your definition of an injury prone player?

Which injury prone players did we sign?

 

I an not aware of any particular injury history relating to Berra, Souttar, Haring, Uche, Halkett, Garruccio,Washington and our 3 current goalkeepers before we signed them.  The only ones I think might fall into your category are White and Naismith but as we paid no transfer fee for either, it was maybe thought to be a calculated risk worth taking

 

If it wasn;t for his injury we wouldn't even have Hickey to get excited about.

 

Injuries sometimes create opportunities for others to shine.

[Spoleto]

7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I didn;t notice much less effort than usual, i just thought we looked a bit aimless, with a couple of players looking lost (Mulraney, Hickey, Clare and Meshino in particular).

 

For me, a disorganised team always looks a yard off the pace compared to a well-drilled outfit.

 

I agree with what you say here.

 

Of course part of the problem is due to injuries  unless you advocate playing the same system no matter who is fit, or more to the point, unfit.

[Spoleto]

12 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

It was white and Naismith that I was thinking about so maybe not as much as I thought.  Doesn't mean that we can't change our style to be less cautious.  

 

So we don't make a habit of signing injury prone players then. Glad that's been sorted out.

 

[Pasquale for King]

30 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

It was white and Naismith that I was thinking about so maybe not as much as I thought.  Doesn't mean that we can't change our style to be less cautious.  

Uche has been injured every year of his career, Wighton & Clare. Souttar missed 3 months at Utd at one point. Lafferty has had injuries throughout his career. Michael Smith too. Hughes?Walker? Vanacek? Amankwaa?There’s probably a few others too. 

Hopefully guys like Haring, Garuccio and Halkett (Mitchell/Smith-Brown/Djoum) haven’t become injury prone at Hearts, slightly worrying. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Bazzas right boot]

17 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

 

We only had 3 Scots starting v Killie.

 

 

 

 

It was just an observation regarding Scotland and Scottish football. 

[Bazzas right boot]

47 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Whataboutery?  

 

 

No, just a poorer standard of player across the board. 

 

Washingtons movement was stand out for me. 

 

[TheOak88]

34 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

What is your definition of an injury prone player?

Which injury prone players did we sign?

 

I an not aware of any particular injury history relating to Berra, Souttar, Haring, Uche, Halkett, Garruccio,Washington and our 3 current goalkeepers before we signed them.  The only ones I think might fall into your category are White and Naismith but as we paid no transfer fee for either, it was maybe thought to be a calculated risk worth taking

Walker defo falls into that category also.

[Spoleto]

2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

Walker defo falls into that category also.

 

Broken foot making a tackle. Nothing to do with being injury prone.

[FruitJuice]

27 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Thanks for confirming what I said. Stats aren't everything, but they ARE an indicator.

So are our league positions.   Though our league places provide evidence rather than indicators.  If our possession stats are that good, why are we shite? 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Robbie did a great job but he did leave us after all, he wasn’t sacked or chased away. I felt it was his time to go back then, I still believe that and just because his two successors have been poor doesn’t change that. As for a future Scotland manager that’s a low bar to set for him. As you say he is young and might well go on to be an even better manager than he is now, I think he might well be back at some point without Levein there.

I compared Doddie and Naismith, to try and explain to a relative youngster about Alex but it was perhaps too nuanced for the poster to understand. Naismith was a better player and hopefully will go on to be a better manager too, they share a professionalism and will to win that maybe some at our club don’t. 

Im also not sure that not sacking Levein, as you say it’s clear he needs to go, is in any way a positive, misplaced loyalty is not a great trait for someone running a business of any kind.

 

No offence but your assessment of robbie as our manager is why I don’t take your views on levein or any other manager seriously.

 

He was doing great and he was still very young and inexperienced - ie he obviously would make mistakes but had plenty time to change and get better in some areas.

 

At that time in our history finishing as high up the league as possible was what we needed and was what he was delivering.

 

Instead an alarmingly large number wanted Tommy Wright instead 🤣

 

Anyone who thought that he needed sacking can’t complain when their views on other managers get ignored.

[FruitJuice]

9 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

No, just a poorer standard of player across the board. 

 

Washingtons movement was stand out for me. 

 

Your answer to our lack of movement was to point out that's the case with other teams.  It does look like whataboutery. 

[FruitJuice]

5 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Broken foot making a tackle. Nothing to do with being injury prone.

How many 'project' players have we signed and got a good return on? 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

No offence but your assessment of robbie as our manager is why I don’t take your views on levein or any other manager seriously.

 

He was doing great and he was still very young and inexperienced - ie he obviously would make mistakes but had plenty time to change and get better in some areas.

 

At that time in our history finishing as high up the league as possible was what we needed and was what he was delivering.

 

Instead an alarmingly large number wanted Tommy Wright instead 🤣

 

Anyone who thought that he needed sacking can’t complain when their views on other managers get ignored.

Did I say he should’ve been sacked? He was at the stage where he needed to be his own man, his words not mine. 

Wright would be our Butcher, and we already have a manager as bad as that. 

Maybe read what people actually say before insulting them. As for being taken seriously you’ve only recently changed your mind about Levein and sneakily would want him to stay.