Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[Section G The Place To Be]

20 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

3rd to 5th, then cathro got sacked......

CL Brought Cathro in and oversaw his signings and was the one that dealt with contracts

 

Hardly the worse team in 30 years, as many are making out.

I Haven't seen anyone claim this. 

 

No one is saying there isn't issues, highlighted by Cathro's time.

Again who was responsible for Cathro ?

 

To say CL has been a failure in his time with us over the past 3/4 years is wrong, we had good progress followed by going backwards, this has resulted in CL being put directly  in charge.

Do you realise the contradiction you're making?

 

He's been in charge 2 months and we haven't played at Tynecastle under him- we classing this as a failure? he's won as many games away as the whole of last season and beaten more teams away than last season.

So CL has improved us since Cathro left, again hardly a failure......

The old "Haven't played at Tynecastle" chestnut. If you think that by just changing from Murrayfield to Tynecastle is going to make that much of a difference then you clearly do not go to matches and witness first hand how bad we are and how much we have regressed.

 

Recruitment needs sorted and there was a clear shift in the last window to more domestic players, we need to improve further but this whole thing has been blown out of proportion as per.

No it hasn't the amount of players brought in ratio to players worth keeping or of good enough standard is terrible. Coupled with long term contracts to certain players that would never have been given oxygen at Tynecastle in the past

 

If CL gets stick for appointing Cathro he also gets praise for the first two seasons? or are we just choosing what CL is responsible for to suit our own agenda?

The first season praise is rightly due. However we're no longer in the Championship now. Times move on so do most clubs. We have went backwards. Living on past achievements is part of the problem. 

 

No one forces any fan to go to games or contribute to FoH, its a choice, if you feel you are due something from the club for giving this money, then maybe you should stop. Not every  fan will be happy, no matter what, case in point- many were unhappy under Robbie despite 1st, 3rd then sitting 2nd/3rd again under him.

This has got to be the most idiotic statement I've read on here, and nothing to do with what I said. FoH subs etc have sweet FA to do with the footballing side, that said I think when your contributing to something you expect not to be taken for granted. If people took your approach we'd have everyone cancelling FoH subs

 

I'm confident that we'll be better at home, I'm confident we'll be better with players returning, I'm confident we will improve from last year and the LC debacle ( we already have) and the last window showed some change in the transfer policy, so I am confident we'll recruit better in January.

I hope your right. I will give you this. It hasn't been easy with so many out injured particularly from the midfield and hopefully when they come back it will make a difference. We all knew though the squad was bare and there were positions needing filled. An entire transfer window was wasted to address these problems, then IC sacked days before it closed and nothing was done. Same person has to take responsibility for that as well.

 

CL has most to prove and most to lose out of this, not you or me. No one will want this to go right as much as him, Christ, he's spent 20 years with us.

CL is responsible for the entire debacle we are in at the moment. In some cases directly in others through his recruitment. I Don't believe he will lose no matter what, he seems to be Teflon coated and has far too much power at the club, made all the more worse by some fans clambering to squeeze up his arse cheeks, ready to shout down any fan that questions him.

 

All this while  sitting in our Ferrari of a stadium.

Some of us will be sitting there anyway. Others will be on KB claiming to be the greatest fans of the club.

 

I am not defensive, I am realistic and can see  beyond a disappointing defeat to  hibs.

Nothing to do with Hibs defeat/s I never even mentioned them. If you're a realist you know nothing about football if you think we are progressing. 

 

[Escobar PHM]

44 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

3rd to 5th, then cathro got sacked......

 

Hardly the worse team in 30 years, as many are making out.

 

 

 

You said this last week and you were challenged to name a worse team in the last 30 years

You couldn't answer then. I don't imagine you'll be able to answer now.

 

Tell you something else. Even the not so good Hearts teams in the last 30 years all had a bit of fight and pride and determination about them.

 

This team is severely lacking in that. Completely unacceptable for a man like Levein to be recruiting and overseeing a gutless team.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

You said this last week and you were challenged to name a worse team in the last 30 years

You couldn't answer then. I don't imagine you'll be able to answer now.

 

Tell you something else. Even the not so good Hearts teams in the last 30 years all had a bit of fight and pride and determination about them.

 

This team is severely lacking in that. Completely unacceptable for a man like Levein to be recruiting and overseeing a gutless team.

The one that got relegated.

 

"Worst" is open to interpretation of course, but if the best team wins the league, safe to say the worst finishes bottom. 

 

Now strictly speaking, in points won we were actually 1 point better than hibs that season, but this team, although frustrating, won't end 1 point off the bottom.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Smithee

[Section G The Place To Be]

1 minute ago, Escobar PHM said:

You said this last week and you were challenged to name a worse team in the last 30 years

You couldn't answer then. I don't imagine you'll be able to answer now.

 

Tell you something else. Even the not so good Hearts teams in the last 30 years all had a bit of fight and pride and determination about them.

 

This team is severely lacking in that. Completely unacceptable for a man like Levein to be recruiting and overseeing a gutless team.

 

Part in bold is absolutely spot on. 

 

As fans we don't care about Barcelona type football, this isn't what we are calling for. We just want a team on the park we can be proud of. In 50 years I've seen some absolutely honking Hearts teams, and some terrible results. One thing all the teams had in common was they fought for the jersey and knew what it means to play for Hearts.

 

We can take defeats or bad players and performances if the team we've watched has at least tried and given their all, and that includes the manager. 

[world_3]

3 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

2. The Signing Policy - No one on here truly knows how much influence that CL has had on signings over the last few seasons. There has been chat in the papers from various people that indicate that RN & IC wanted the players and other suggestions they had little say on who was brought in. It can be argued about until the end of time but the truth is that we the fans have no idea. As DOF, my take on it is that at a bare minimum he was involved in the wages/contract side of negotiations. From that point of view he holds some responsibility for the mess we are in as he has not done his due diligence for the club by discussing what the signing of whichever player it was from the list we have brought in for the managers. There are too many examples of players we have brought in with no idea of what they could possibly add to the squad or their suitability for playing in SPFL.

 

I'd put a few rules in place as far as our signing policy goes :

 

1.  No more reserve players from the English Premiership, there may be some gems out there, but we're invariably getting saddled with dross.

 

2.  No more injury prone players, regardless of how good they might be when they're fit.  Chopping and changing to fit someone in damages morale and the lack of continuity leads to confusion on the pitch.

 

3.  No players who've been out of contract for longer than 1 month, there is always a good reason why they've not already been snapped up.

 

4.  If there is a choice between a young up and coming Scottish player, and a player from England or abroad who seems to be of a similar standard, then the Scottish player every time, even if it means shelling out a couple of hundred thousand to sign him.  Not racist or anything, it just seems to work out better in general.

 

I'd also be tempted to write this season off as soon as we're safe, and throw in a load of youngsters to give them game time and see how they get on.  If they're not good enough they'll sink, but at least we'll then know where we stand for getting new players in to fill the gaps for next season.

[Des Lynam]

The current product on the park is unacceptable. There is no passion or pattern to our play. I've never been so bored watching Hearts. 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

The current product on the park is unacceptable. There is no passion or pattern to our play. I've never been so bored watching Hearts. 

Couldn't agree more mate

[Thomaso]

11 hours ago, Smithee said:

I'm not so sure.

'Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place' - yet only this week Isma's been in the papers taking about the differences in playing style and training.

 

I agree that he'll stand or fall by what happens next of course, but I don't think this is a continuation of the Cathro era. Craig's got his own way of doing things, the players are adjusting, a fair few are injured, and I'm sure we're all desperately hoping it'll come together at tynecastle.

 

TBH we got this shit from players in the media when Cathro was there.  Players want the Manager to pick them...so they brown nose the Manager.

[Escobar PHM]

38 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The one that got relegated.

 

"Worst" is open to interpretation of course, but if the best team wins the league, safe to say the worst finishes bottom. 

 

Now strictly speaking, in points won we were actually 1 point better than hibs that season, but this team, although frustrating, won't end 1 point off the bottom.

The team that got relegated would piss all over this bunch

 

Gary Locke, poor manager that he was, would never tolerate the level of couldntgiveafeckness that has permeated our squad for the last 2 years(nearly). He must be walking about Tynecastle shaking his head at whats going on

Edited November 3, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[Dalstonjambo]

41 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

You said this last week and you were challenged to name a worse team in the last 30 years

You couldn't answer then. I don't imagine you'll be able to answer now.

 

Tell you something else. Even the not so good Hearts teams in the last 30 years all had a bit of fight and pride and determination about them.

 

This team is severely lacking in that. Completely unacceptable for a man like Levein to be recruiting and overseeing a gutless team.

- Tommy Mclean
- Joe Jordan towards the end
- Frail/Korobochka

Were all worse and had less fight

[Escobar PHM]

13 minutes ago, Dalstonjambo said:

- Tommy Mclean
- Joe Jordan towards the end
- Frail/Korobochka

Were all worse and had less fight

so Tommy Mcleans team containing Robertson, Colquhoun, Locke, Mcpherson, Bett, Mackay, Alan Johnston, McLaren. was worse than the current team ?

Youre having a laugh aye ?

 

Joe Jordan had a win ratio that's hardly ever been bettered. Better than Levein first time round. I never understood why we sacked him to be honest.

 

Korobochka had a great squad. A very big squad to pick from. Unfortunately he was a shite manager, as was Tommy Mclean. Not the same as being a shite team like what we were discussing.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[Dalstonjambo]

3 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

so Tommy Mcleans team containing Robertson, Colquhoun, Locke, Mcpherson, Bett, Mackay, Alan Johnston, McLaren. was worse than the current team ?

Youre having a laugh aye ?

 

Joe Jordan has a win ratio that's hardly ever been bettered. Better than Levein first time round. I never understood why we sacked him to be honest.

 

Korobochka had a great squad. A very big squad to pick from. Unfortunately he was a shite manager, not the same as a shite team like what we were discussing.

We almost got relegated under Mclean
Under Jordan the players admitted they chucked it. If you don't understand why he was sacked you obviously didn't see many games in the latter part of his spell.
Re Frail/Korobochka I remember sitting through performances that were far worse than under this team. 4-0 to dundee united stands out. 

My point was in my opinion i saw worse performances and less fight on a lot of occasions from those periods. You were claiming no one could provide examples of worse teams.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Dalstonjambo

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

We'll finish mid-table, probably top-6. I'm confident Levein will sort it after a few transfer windows.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

We'll finish mid-table, probably top-6. I'm confident Levein will sort it after a few transfer windows.

Christ we have been saying that for the last few!! Wake me up when it happens mate

[tcjambo]

I suggest that to retain your sanity those who don't share their views leave this thread as the preserve of the Levein haters, Hobos and other assorted oddballs to wallow in their misery.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

Just now, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Christ we have been saying that for the last few!! Wake me up when it happens mate

 

We were successful in every transfer window of the Levein era before Cathro came in, with question marks over summer 16. I think it was clear the last 2 windows, Levein was bringing in players for the style of football Cathro wanted to play. It doesn't help that not only do these not players fit Levein's vision for how he wants to play, but they're also terrible footballers. But I think he can turn it around, it's a big job considering just how lacking the squad is in quite a few areas but there's few other guys I'd want in charge.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

1 minute ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

We were successful in every transfer window of the Levein era before Cathro came in, with question marks over summer 16. I think it was clear the last 2 windows, Levein was bringing in players for the style of football Cathro wanted to play. It doesn't help that not only do these not players fit Levein's vision for how he wants to play, but they're also terrible footballers. But I think he can turn it around, it's a big job considering just how lacking the squad is in quite a few areas but there's few other guys I'd want in charge.

It's defo the least talented squad since the early 80s. The worrying thing is CL oversaw these players come in. Despite that any team should be capable of tempo, movement and guts. This team has nothing just now

[Escobar PHM]

20 minutes ago, Dalstonjambo said:

We almost got relegated under Mclean
Under Jordan the players admitted they chucked it. If you don't understand why he was sacked you obviously didn't see many games in the latter part of his spell.
Re Frail/Korobochka I remember sitting through performances that were far worse than under this team. 4-0 to dundee united stands out. 

My point was in my opinion i saw worse performances and less fight on a lot of occasions from those periods. You were claiming no one could provide examples of worse teams.

Okay so just to clarify you DO think the team containing John Robertson, Colquhoun, Locke, Mcpherson, Bett, Mackay, Alan Johnston, McLaren was worse than this current hearts team. Just want that on the record so we're clear.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

3 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

It's defo the least talented squad since the early 80s. The worrying thing is CL oversaw these players come in. Despite that any team should be capable of tempo, movement and guts. This team has nothing just now

 

This team is superior to the admin season team by a mile, don't kid yourself. I think saying this team doesn't have guts is unfair, against Hibs and Rangers I saw a lot of boys giving their all but just thoroughly outclassed in the areas of the pitch that mattered the most.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

This team is superior to the admin season team by a mile, don't kid yourself. I think saying this team doesn't have guts is unfair, against Hibs and Rangers I saw a lot of boys giving their all but just thoroughly outclassed in the areas of the pitch that mattered the most.

Not convinced they have more talent though.  

[wavydavy]

21 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

I suggest that to retain your sanity those who don't share their views leave this thread as the preserve of the Levein haters, Hobos and other assorted oddballs to wallow in their misery.

 

Bye..

 

[Escobar PHM]

8 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

This team is superior to the admin season team by a mile, don't kid yourself. I think saying this team doesn't have guts is unfair, against Hibs and Rangers I saw a lot of boys giving their all but just thoroughly outclassed in the areas of the pitch that mattered the most.

This team without Lafferty and Berra would be relegated. Its low on talent. Its low on experience. Its low on guts and bottle and its got a shite manager who has lost whatever talent for football management he once had.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[Dalstonjambo]

18 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Okay so just to clarify you DO think the team containing John Robertson, Colquhoun, Locke, Mcpherson, Bett, Mackay, Alan Johnston, McLaren was worse than this current hearts team. Just want that on the record so we're clear.

 

I’m not talking about man for man abilities. 

 

It finished in a worse position than this team will. It’s underperformance was far worse than this team. There were some dire dire performances that season. Relatively you could argue it was tougher watching than this season. 

 

That was my point. Not everything is black and white. I would argue i felt more disconnect and down about the team on a lot of occasions in my time as a hearts fan as i do now. 

[The People's Chimp]

1 hour ago, Dalstonjambo said:

- Tommy Mclean
- Joe Jordan towards the end
- Frail/Korobochka

Were all worse and had less fight

 

Tommy McLean's team was worse. Well haud me back. :rofl:

Edited November 3, 2017 by The People's Chimp

[martoon]

14 hours ago, Skacelsid said:

If we have state of the art coaching and training methods, and are developing the coaches of the future why were we all over the place at Easter road and again on Saturday against a poor Rangers team. There is no organisation and no obvious shape or system, the players do not close down or get back when possession is lost, they are static when we have a set-piece. Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place. It is hard to remember the last really enjoyable team performance. We are back at Tynie soon, have a couple of players to come back,  ( nothing special though ) ,and we will need to use the transfer window and make decent signings. But we are going back the way as a club. We are seeing some youngsters coming through, and they must be encouraged but they are not ready to start games in a struggling team and we all know that a promising youngster and a top league player are two different things. The jury is still out on our youth development, we have been under-achieving for years in that department. We have a hard season ahead there is no doubt. Craig Levein's '' new way '' has failed and if he cannot put it right he will go, but when.

 

Good post. 

[Escobar PHM]

6 minutes ago, Dalstonjambo said:

 

I’m not talking about man for man abilities. 

 

It finished in a worse position than this team will. It’s underperformance was far worse than this team. There were some dire dire performances that season. Relatively you could argue it was tougher watching than this season. 

 

That was my point. Not everything is black and white. I would argue i felt more disconnect and down about the team on a lot of occasions in my time as a hearts fan as i do now. 

So it was a better team. It just underperformed, probably because the manager was a shitebag buck-tooth cheating diving hun weegie dwarf

[martoon]

6 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

Following and supporting your team doesn’t necessarily equate to supporting your Head Coach.

 

The way I look at it is CL has had 3 problems with the support when he took the job on

 

1. The Cathro Experiment - Cathro was his man, his choice for head coach based on his experience when he was at United. He was untested at any sort of player management level and was a risk. For whatever reason, he was offered a 3 year contract not the contract RN was signing on a rolling basis which has made it a very expensive mistake. It was blatantly obvious at end of last season that Cathro was out of his depth yet he was still given the summer to recruit and bring in players to suit his preferred formation. When he eventually went, CL wanted to go back to the boot room mentality and promote another untried man in JD. His stubbornness in his vision of what he wants is verging on VR proportions of ego. HMFC are not his personal play thing to experiment with.

2. The Signing Policy - No one on here truly knows how much influence that CL has had on signings over the last few seasons. There has been chat in the papers from various people that indicate that RN & IC wanted the players and other suggestions they had little say on who was brought in. It can be argued about until the end of time but the truth is that we the fans have no idea. As DOF, my take on it is that at a bare minimum he was involved in the wages/contract side of negotiations. From that point of view he holds some responsibility for the mess we are in as he has not done his due diligence for the club by discussing what the signing of whichever player it was from the list we have brought in for the managers. There are too many examples of players we have brought in with no idea of what they could possibly add to the squad or their suitability for playing in SPFL.

3. The Interview Process - Again from only what was in the press, it’s clear that this appears to have been flawed. AB spoke about the quality of candidate we had applications from. Yet from this vast array of candidates, we interviewed 4 or 5SPH and SP should never have been on the list as neither had proven themselves at a higher level than a Scottish Championship club. JD was only included due to CLs boot room vision and again was someone that in any other business wouldn’t have got through the paper sift. That left Freedman and Davies. I’m not sure Freedman was ever interested and was just promoting his availability. Davies much as though I don’t like him clearly didn’t like what the club had to say about the structure and withdrew from process. What happened to the other quality candidates. Who on earth thought SPH, SP or JD would be a better candidate than for example Owen Coyle. CLs influence clearly showing again as 3 of them have extremely unremarkable CVs. 

 

Should CL have taken a back seat from the footballing side of things, in all honesty probably. He is tainted by the failure of IC and his boot room ideas. For this reason, he is not going to have the full support of the fans. 

 

No no fan wants HMFC to fail or struggle on the playing side but the 5 year plan has fallen on its ass, we’ve regressed with the football played on the park, we are signing another faceless cast of thousands and paying out so much in compensation for cancelled contracts as well as to our previous manager. All of this has happened on his watch yet his accountability for this appears to be zero. If he was a director in a civilian job, he’d have been sacked a long time ago. 

 

Fans have the the right to question when you look at this logically, why he is still at the club. It doesn't make them CL haters it makes them people that care about HMFC and the decisions being made on the footballing side of the business

 

Excellent summary. 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by martoon

[Dalstonjambo]

Just now, Escobar PHM said:

So it was a better team. It just underperformed, probably because the manager was a shitebag buck-tooth cheating diving hun weegie dwarf

Ha ha. Fantastic description. 

 

My point was seeing a team like that almost relegated was far more depressing to me than the absolute tosh we watch at the moment. 

 

I guess we can debate the semantics of what better means to each poster. 

 

What everyone can agree on. At the moment we are not good enough. That needs to change. 

[Escobar PHM]

2 minutes ago, Dalstonjambo said:

Ha ha. Fantastic description. 

 

My point was seeing a team like that almost relegated was far more depressing to me than the absolute tosh we watch at the moment. 

 

I guess we can debate the semantics of what better means to each poster. 

 

What everyone can agree on. At the moment we are not good enough. That needs to change. 

Yep I think we all agree we need change. The argument shouldn't even be about who is responsible, it should be about how we fix it and who heads that up.I'm not a Levein hater (as in I don't actually hate the guy) I just don't see where he is going to be able to change his philosophy and his way of playing and thinking about the game and his recruitment criteria and his record of good signings vs bad signings (especially that) in a way that we need.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[Rods]

This place seems to go into meltdown when we dont beat Hibs. We need to calm down and take a chill pill. 

 

I think some of our away results have been decent at historically tough places for Hearts. We also defeated St J for the first time in a while aswell. The signing we have made this season is also a showing that we are moving in the right direction. 

 

People just have to buckle in we will be back to a good place sooner rather than later.

[wavydavy]

Just now, Rents said:

This place seems to go into meltdown when we dont beat Hibs. We need to calm down and take a chill pill. 

 

I think some of our away results have been decent at historically tough places for Hearts. We also defeated St J for the first time in a while aswell. The signing we have made this season is also a showing that we are moving in the right direction. 

 

People just have to buckle in we will be back to a good place sooner rather than later.

 

C'mon it's not just about poor performances v Hibs. St Johnstone are going throught their worst spell since Tommy Wright took over and if you think our signings are taking us in the right direction why are we currently 7th in the league?

 

Ok I can anticipate that you will say we hav'nt played at Tynecastle yet well time will tell, hopefully we can rescue some points once we get back there.

[NANOJAMBO]

51 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

I suggest that to retain your sanity those who don't share their views leave this thread as the preserve of the Levein haters, Hobos and other assorted oddballs to wallow in their misery.

You on laughing gas mate ? 

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

34 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

This team without Lafferty and Berra would be relegated. Its low on talent. Its low on experience. Its low on guts and bottle and its got a shite manager who has lost whatever talent for football management he once had.

 

Even without Lafferty or Berra, you can't be serious saying we have worse squads than Hamilton, Killie or Dundee. Going by your criteria, we have far more talented players, decorated players with bags of international experience. Guts and bottle is entirely subjective and I've seen much better effort from the team since the sacking of Cathro. And Levein's is not a shite manager by a long shot.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, tcjambo said:

I suggest that to retain your sanity those who don't share their views leave this thread as the preserve of the Levein haters, Hobos and other assorted oddballs to wallow in their misery.

 

[Spencer]

41 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

This team without Lafferty and Berra would be relegated. Its low on talent. Its low on experience. Its low on guts and bottle and its got a shite manager who has lost whatever talent for football management he once had.

Without Berra and Lafferty this would be a relegation outfit

 

 

[Thomaso]

6 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

Following and supporting your team doesn’t necessarily equate to supporting your Head Coach.

 

The way I look at it is CL has had 3 problems with the support when he took the job on

 

1. The Cathro Experiment - Cathro was his man, his choice for head coach based on his experience when he was at United. He was untested at any sort of player management level and was a risk. For whatever reason, he was offered a 3 year contract not the contract RN was signing on a rolling basis which has made it a very expensive mistake. It was blatantly obvious at end of last season that Cathro was out of his depth yet he was still given the summer to recruit and bring in players to suit his preferred formation. When he eventually went, CL wanted to go back to the boot room mentality and promote another untried man in JD. His stubbornness in his vision of what he wants is verging on VR proportions of ego. HMFC are not his personal play thing to experiment with.

2. The Signing Policy - No one on here truly knows how much influence that CL has had on signings over the last few seasons. There has been chat in the papers from various people that indicate that RN & IC wanted the players and other suggestions they had little say on who was brought in. It can be argued about until the end of time but the truth is that we the fans have no idea. As DOF, my take on it is that at a bare minimum he was involved in the wages/contract side of negotiations. From that point of view he holds some responsibility for the mess we are in as he has not done his due diligence for the club by discussing what the signing of whichever player it was from the list we have brought in for the managers. There are too many examples of players we have brought in with no idea of what they could possibly add to the squad or their suitability for playing in SPFL.

3. The Interview Process - Again from only what was in the press, it’s clear that this appears to have been flawed. AB spoke about the quality of candidate we had applications from. Yet from this vast array of candidates, we interviewed 4 or 5SPH and SP should never have been on the list as neither had proven themselves at a higher level than a Scottish Championship club. JD was only included due to CLs boot room vision and again was someone that in any other business wouldn’t have got through the paper sift. That left Freedman and Davies. I’m not sure Freedman was ever interested and was just promoting his availability. Davies much as though I don’t like him clearly didn’t like what the club had to say about the structure and withdrew from process. What happened to the other quality candidates. Who on earth thought SPH, SP or JD would be a better candidate than for example Owen Coyle. CLs influence clearly showing again as 3 of them have extremely unremarkable CVs. 

 

Should CL have taken a back seat from the footballing side of things, in all honesty probably. He is tainted by the failure of IC and his boot room ideas. For this reason, he is not going to have the full support of the fans. 

 

No no fan wants HMFC to fail or struggle on the playing side but the 5 year plan has fallen on its ass, we’ve regressed with the football played on the park, we are signing another faceless cast of thousands and paying out so much in compensation for cancelled contracts as well as to our previous manager. All of this has happened on his watch yet his accountability for this appears to be zero. If he was a director in a civilian job, he’d have been sacked a long time ago. 

 

Fans have the right to question when you look at this logically, why he is still at the club. It doesn’t make them CL haters it makes them people that care about HMFC and the decisions being made on the footballing side of the business

 

Absolutely brilliant assessment - the last paragraph nails it.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Thomaso

[Escobar PHM]

1 minute ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Even without Lafferty or Berra, you can't be serious saying we have worse squads than Hamilton, Killie or Dundee. Going by your criteria, we have far more talented players, decorated players with bags of international experience. Guts and bottle is entirely subjective and I've seen much better effort from the team since the sacking of Cathro. And Levein's is not a shite manager by a long shot.

Well there'll be plenty opportunity in the next few weeks to see how we currently compare against those teams. Nothing will be decided until we are through that period anyway. I think if nothing else he (Levein) has the right to be allowed to got through the next series of home games and see where we sit after that. If we're back in with a shout of Europe after that lot then possibly we could re-visit. If we're still bottom 6 he'll need to go.

[Spencer]

7 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Even without Lafferty or Berra, you can't be serious saying we have worse squads than Hamilton, Killie or Dundee. Going by your criteria, we have far more talented players, decorated players with bags of international experience. Guts and bottle is entirely subjective and I've seen much better effort from the team since the sacking of Cathro. And Levein's is not a shite manager by a long shot.

Your comments on this thread epitomise the kind of Hearts fan who'll willingly accept the biggest pile of shite imaginable and then seek to defend it 

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

3 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Well there'll be plenty opportunity in the next few weeks to see how we currently compare against those teams. Nothing will be decided until we are through that period anyway. I think if nothing else he (Levein) has the right to be allowed to got through the next series of home games and see where we sit after that. If we're back in with a shout of Europe after that lot then possibly we could re-visit. If we're still bottom 6 he'll need to go.

 

Totally agree, he needs 9 points minimum from the next 4 to keep the fans onside, all of a sudden the Motherwell game becomes huge as, if they keep up their decent form, they'll be a good example of our direct competition. but overall i reckon we get 13 points from our next 6 games and we're right back in the hunt.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Totally agree, he needs 9 points minimum from the next 4 to keep the fans onside, all of a sudden the Motherwell game becomes huge as, if they keep up their decent form, they'll be a good example of our direct competition. but overall i reckon we get 13 points from our next 6 games and we're right back in the hunt.

 

In the hunt for what exactly?

[i8hibsh]

For me his signings/players in he has sanctioned has been unforgivable the past 3 years, Sir Alex had some horror signings but approx 50 players in  (that he would all have approved) in 3.5 years and 90% have been completely sub-standard.  This is not even the contracts he has thrown at them.  His Cathro project was also unforgivable.  Our performances are not improving under him.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

1 minute ago, Spencer said:

Your comments on this thread epitomise the kind of Hearts fan who'll willingly accept the biggest pile of shite imaginable and then seek to defend it 

 

I'm just not a reactionary child. I have a more long-term view of the direction of the club. We're finally back to bringing through youngsters and giving them their chance, granted they don't look ready for this level but the experience in the team will be doing them the world of good. I'm not delighted with the recent results/performances, but they could have been and almost certainly would have been worse under Cathro, and I bet that we wouldn't have won most of those away games we have done if Neilson was in charge. The squad is in a particularly poor state and Levein has to accept at least some if not all of the blame for that. But he has proven that he is a manager who gets results at club level, and is good at developing young players. We will be mid-table this season, probably top-half. Then we can move on and build from there. 

[Spencer]

7 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Totally agree, he needs 9 points minimum from the next 4 to keep the fans onside, all of a sudden the Motherwell game becomes huge as, if they keep up their decent form, they'll be a good example of our direct competition. but overall i reckon we get 13 points from our next 6 games and we're right back in the hunt.

Motherwell were their sub 5k attendances are our direct competition 

 

[Escobar PHM]

6 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Totally agree, he needs 9 points minimum from the next 4 to keep the fans onside,

9 points wont keep him onside because he'll have lost at home to either Kilmarnock, Partick, Ross Co or Hamilton.

That set of 4 has to be 12 points. 10 would be disappointing but okay because you can excuse a wee blip and a draw now and again.

Anything less than that and the pressure is still on him IMO

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

4 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

In the hunt for what exactly?

 

Maybe Europe if other teams around us start to falter, but comfortably top 6. 5th would be a decent season for me considering the turmoil that sacking our manager days before the start of the season left us in. 

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

1 minute ago, Spencer said:

Motherwell were their sub 5k attendances are our direct competition 

 

 

Didn't realise attendances played on the pitch...

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

3 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

9 points wont keep him onside because he'll have lost at home to either Kilmarnock, Partick, Ross Co or Hamilton.

That set of 4 has to be 12 points. 10 would be disappointing but okay because you can excuse a wee blip and a draw now and again.

Anything less than that and the pressure is still on him IMO

 

Aye I suppose you're right with that, 10 is the minimum. And even when if he wins the next 6 the pressure will still be on, the witch hunt never stops.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine

[Spencer]

Just now, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Didn't realise attendances played on the pitch...

Budgets my dear boy. Budgets 

 

We have an average gate which exceeds that of Motherwell, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Hamilton combined yet two of the clubs will probably finish above us.

 

You are an apologist and totally accepting of failure 

[Escobar PHM]

1 minute ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Maybe Europe if other teams around us start to falter, but comfortably top 6. 5th would be a decent season for me considering the turmoil that sacking our manager days before the start of the season left us in. 

Never in my life supporting Hearts has 5th been considered a decent season. It never will be decent in this league, in the fecking awful state the game in Scotland has got itself into.

5th is mediocre. That should be the word you use. Not Decent

[Escobar PHM]

2 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

Aye I suppose you're right with that, 10 is the minimum. And even when if he wins the next 6 the pressure will still be on, the witch hunt never stops.

Its not a witch hunt. Its a judgement based on results and other competencies. If he's not achieving he has to go and we have to try someone else. Its not that difficult to understand why he is under this pressure and we'll all move happily on to the next bloke once Levein is gone, and so on and so forth