Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[MacDonald Jardine]

13 minutes ago, Spencer said:

Go and have a pint on a Saturday and enjoy it!

 

Toshy has failed to comprehend that we're debt free now which slightly changes the landscape of the comparisons he wishes to make

 

Sit back and enjoy the next batch of Oshinawa's and Martin's as big Craig is here to stay

Hopefully not!

[Jamboelite]

20 minutes ago, Spencer said:

Go and have a pint on a Saturday and enjoy it!

 

Toshy has failed to comprehend that we're debt free now which slightly changes the landscape of the comparisons he wishes to make

 

Sit back and enjoy the next batch of Oshinawa's and Martin's as big Craig is here to stay

 

We arent debt free and right now we are hampered by a huge outlay which is impinging on our budget, however that wont be the case for long.

 

That doesnt mean some players bought havent been humpty.

 

I would also say that we will win more at Tynecastle than we will at Murrayfield that for me is a given.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Jamboelite

[Rudy T]

51 minutes ago, Spencer said:

Go and have a pint on a Saturday and enjoy it!

 

Toshy has failed to comprehend that we're debt free now which slightly changes the landscape of the comparisons he wishes to make

 

Sit back and enjoy the next batch of Oshinawa's and Martin's as big Craig is here to stay

 

Spencer man, here we go again you've been down this road a few times and each time we pull through.

 

So many looking at this like the current team is the same one which will finish the season when it's blatantly obvious that's simply not the case.

 

Criticise the past all you want and of course some is justified but this hysterical reaction from some is baffling really. 

[MacDonald Jardine]

9 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Spencer man, here we go again you've been down this road a few times and each time we pull through.

 

So many looking at this like the current team is the same one which will finish the season when it's blatantly obvious that's simply not the case.

 

Criticise the past all you want and of course some is justified but this hysterical reaction from some is baffling really. 

Is it?

We've almost grown progressively worse with each transfer window over the last two years. 

Hopefully the signing of Berra and Lafferty shows a step in the right direction, but neither will be cheap.

[Rudy T]

8 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

Is it?

We've almost grown progressively worse with each transfer window over the last two years. 

Hopefully the signing of Berra and Lafferty shows a step in the right direction, but neither will be cheap.

 

Well for a start we have several key players injured who will return and as you point out the quantity is down but the quality is up going by the summer.

[MacDonald Jardine]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Well for a start we have several key players injured who will return and as you point out the quantity is down but the quality is up going by the summer.

Here's hoping but the injured players weren't great last year, admittedly in a shambles of a team.

[glynnlondon]

The quality we have couldn't possibly get any worse could it?

[wavydavy]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

You're asking the guy to explain why he thinks the majority were behind the manager though. The answer is because that's what fans do, it's up to you to prove why you reckon the majority weren't behind him IMO 

So he can make a statement which he doesn't have tp prove because you feel it's correct and yet I have to prove mine.

Sounds a bit one sided to me.

[Unknown user]

26 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

So he can make a statement which he doesn't have tp prove because you feel it's correct and yet I have to prove mine.

Sounds a bit one sided to me.

 

The default position for the vast majority of football fans is support for their team and manager/ head coach. You can try to argue with that but it's as close to an empirical fact as you can get in football.

 

 

With that in mind are you honestly saying the vast majority of Hearts fans weren't behind the new Hearts head coach when he got appointed?

 

If so, then I say Bollocks, with a capital B

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Smithee

[Walter Bishop]

11 hours ago, Oliver Twist said:

 

You watch a different game from me though. I look at the good points. We have a quality free kick taker, our corners are very dangerous. Goalkeeper is sound. Central defense is sound. We have decent striking options.

Midfield is weak but the young guys are getting valuable game time which will only improve them over time. I'm far from worried, season ahead should be quite exciting in actual fact.

Probably the most delusional post I think I’ve ever read on here. 

 

 

[mitch41]

3 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

So all you care about is who on JKB wants CL to fail? Strange.

 

So in your opinion they're not good enough...so genius what do you suggest?

I think you should look at the post i was replying to. I don't know of anyone wanting Levein to fail neither is it all i care about. I do believe Levein & his bootroom are signing too many duds, giving out bad 2-3 contracts, playing a type of football that is unorganised and murder to watch. 

[wavydavy]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The default position for the vast majority of football fans is support for their team and manager/ head coach. You can try to argue with that but it's as close to an empirical fact as you can get in football.

 

 

With that in mind are you honestly saying the vast majority of Hearts fans weren't behind the new Hearts head coach when he got appointed?

 

If so, then I say Bollocks, with a capital B

 

There is a difference between supporting the team and the coach. I like many was very sceptical about the appointment of Cathro and although I wanted him to do well I feared he wouldn't.

 

Think back to the support we gave George Burley compared to his various replacements. Can we all honestly say we gave the same support to all.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

There is a difference between supporting the team and the coach. I like many was very sceptical about the appointment of Cathro and although I wanted him to do well I feared he wouldn't.

 

Think back to the support we gave George Burley compared to his various replacements. Can we all honestly say we gave the same support to all.

That's not what's being discussed though, I'm not saying he was the new George Burley or that the fans were as enthused, I'm agreeing with tosh that the vast majority of fans backed the new Hearts head coach by default. 

 

And yes, the burden of proof is unfair, but that's only because you're backing a weak argument. 

[EH11]

28 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Probably the most delusional post I think I’ve ever read on here. 

 

 

Didnt read much there to suggest OT is delusional. We all see it differently, you probably don't see yourself as a glass half empty, negative, pessimistic chap. Of course, you're entitled to speculate that others who don't share your views are 'deluded'. 

[mitch41]

41 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The default position for the vast majority of football fans is support for their team and manager/ head coach. You can try to argue with that but it's as close to an empirical fact as you can get in football.

 

 

With that in mind are you honestly saying the vast majority of Hearts fans weren't behind the new Hearts head coach when he got appointed?

 

If so, then I say Bollocks, with a capital B

 

Of course the fans got behind Levein when Ann Budge appointed him i mean what choice did the fans have and remember Levein was far from being the fans first choice. We the fans never got to know the full list of applicants and the ones we know were interviewed  i'd bet would not be impressed by Ann Budge & Craig Levein's insistence that any new manager must have McPhee as his assistant with Daly, Fox, Kirk ect as his staff. So what Ann Budge and Craig Levein are saying is  "IT WAS ALL CATHRO'S FAULT". Get out of jail free card for Levein and his buddies eh !!

Anyway i hoped Levein and his crew would have us playing good football challenging Aberdeen, Hibs & Rangers pleasing the punters. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by mitch41

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, mitch41 said:

Of course the fans got behind Levein when Ann Budge appointed him i mean what choice did the fans have and remember Levein was far from being the fans first choice. We the fans never got to know the full list of applicants and the ones we know were interviewed and i'd bet they would not be impressed by Ann Budge & Craig Levein's insistence that any new manager must have McPhee as his assistant with Daly, Fox, Kirk ect as his staff. So what Ann Budge and Craig Levein are saying IT WAS ALL CATHRO'S FAULT. Get out of jail free card for Levein and his buddies eh !!

Anyway i hoped Levein and his crew would have us playing good football challenging Aberdeen, Hibs & Rangers pleasing the punters. 

Not talking about Levein here bud, a bit of a digression

[Skacelsid]

If we have state of the art coaching and training methods, and are developing the coaches of the future why were we all over the place at Easter road and again on Saturday against a poor Rangers team. There is no organisation and no obvious shape or system, the players do not close down or get back when possession is lost, they are static when we have a set-piece. Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place. It is hard to remember the last really enjoyable team performance. We are back at Tynie soon, have a couple of players to come back,  ( nothing special though ) ,and we will need to use the transfer window and make decent signings. But we are going back the way as a club. We are seeing some youngsters coming through, and they must be encouraged but they are not ready to start games in a struggling team and we all know that a promising youngster and a top league player are two different things. The jury is still out on our youth development, we have been under-achieving for years in that department. We have a hard season ahead there is no doubt. Craig Levein's '' new way '' has failed and if he cannot put it right he will go, but when.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Skacelsid

[portobellojambo1]

1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

 

Spencer man, here we go again you've been down this road a few times and each time we pull through.

 

So many looking at this like the current team is the same one which will finish the season when it's blatantly obvious that's simply not the case.

 

Criticise the past all you want and of course some is justified but this hysterical reaction from some is baffling really. 

 

But who will he be able to bring in, and what will the rules be. Will he have to produce a listing of players he would like, present it to someone above him, receive a much smaller list back and take it from there. If not, and he gets to bring in whoever he pleases where is the money going to come from. I'm led to believe that the costing of the new stand will be a fair bit more than what has been budgeted for, will we have enough cash to pay for it and new players or is something going to have to give. If it is I'd imagine it will have to be potential players. Do you think there is any chance that Craig Levein will turn up at Riccarton one morning and have to ask who the six new players are (as he'd never seen or heard of them before) as Ian Cathro had to do. We are 4 years into an idea which isn't working  on the football side, and bringing in another batch of players of a low level ain't going to resolve matters. And my own opinion is I don't think Craig still has what it takes to create what he did in his original spell as HMFC manager. And if he fails it seems only fair that he faces the same decision as ended Cathro's spell with us. I believe we have sold around 14,000/14,500 ST's for Tynecastle, with ground capacity increasing to around 20,000. To succeed it alll starts and ends on the park. The way to get additional bums on seats is to create something on the park, and we aren't at the moment. I'll be honest in finishing by saying I haven't got a scooby who would be the best replacement for him though, although I do think the potential replacements will increase once he has gone from the club.

[Rudy T]

31 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I think you should look at the post i was replying to. I don't know of anyone wanting Levein to fail neither is it all i care about. I do believe Levein & his bootroom are signing too many duds, giving out bad 2-3 contracts, playing a type of football that is unorganised and murder to watch. 

 

I did and if you can't read between the lines then fair enough. 

 

While that's fine to say. And there's two stand outs who have been terrible and given long contracts, the signing policy changed in the summer, Cathro was emptied and Levien has come in only to be hit with injuries to his most experienced players. Not pretty to watch yes but they're certainly organised, unfortunately due to a mix of inexperience and lack of a settled team we have been caught out by better sides.

 

Like it or not the new stand has impacted hugely on the playing budget, add in the Cathro shambles and we're behind where we should be. Fortunately we have a transfer window and a few physios to help right some of the problems. 

 

What we're seeing of the academy is also a huge positive and if what's coming through is the start of Leveins legacy then our future is bright and we'll just need to take the short term pain for now.

[mitch41]

9 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

If we have state of the art coaching and training methods, and are developing the coaches of the future why were we all over the place at Easter road and again on Saturday against a poor Rangers team. There is no organisation and no obvious shape or system, the players do not close down or get back when possession is lost, they are static when we have a set-piece. Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place. It is hard to remember the last really enjoyable team performance. We are back at Tynie soon, have a couple of players to come back,  ( nothing special though ) ,and we will need to use the transfer window and make decent signings. But we are going back the way as a club. We are seeing some youngsters coming through, and they must be encouraged but they are not ready to start games in a struggling team and we all know that a promising youngster and a top league player are two different things. The jury is still out on our youth development, we have been under-achieving for years in that department. We have a hard season ahead there is no doubt. Craig Levein's '' new way '' has failed and if he cannot put it right he will go, but when.

I couldn't of put it better myself. You know last season many fans like myself were posting that Cathro was out of his depth and wasn't a manager and certain posters on here gave us dogs abuse. Levein has lost his way and with his biggest fan being Ann Budge all we can do is hope for a miracle that being he turns performances around and we climb the league and have a good run in the league. Hearts fans must give the team 100% support because our players need all the help they can get. 

[mitch41]

7 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I did and if you can't read between the lines then fair enough. 

 

While that's fine to say. And there's two stand outs who have been terrible and given long contracts, the signing policy changed in the summer, Cathro was emptied and Levien has come in only to be hit with injuries to his most experienced players. Not pretty to watch yes but they're certainly organised, unfortunately due to a mix of inexperience and lack of a settled team we have been caught out by better sides.

 

Like it or not the new stand has impacted hugely on the playing budget, add in the Cathro shambles and we're behind where we should be. Fortunately we have a transfer window and a few physios to help right some of the problems. 

 

What we're seeing of the academy is also a huge positive and if what's coming through is the start of Leveins legacy then our future is bright and we'll just need to take the short term pain for now.

Excuses excuses excuse. Never mind reading between the lines. Levein sanctioned the signings when Cathro as Head Coach. Levein sanctioned the length of these contracts. Levein sanctioned everything to do with everything Cathro did like the size of the squad so when injuries come along we have cover although why we kept signing useless left backs beats me.  As for short term pain i believe if we had a decent management of our team there would be no pain. Our fans are fed up with men running our team who are just not good enough. 

[wavydavy]

48 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's not what's being discussed though, I'm not saying he was the new George Burley or that the fans were as enthused, I'm agreeing with tosh that the vast majority of fans backed the new Hearts head coach by default. 

 

And yes, the burden of proof is unfair, but that's only because you're backing a weak argument. 

 

Well I disagree I don't think that all fans back every coach the same by " default" as you suggest. I don't believe it possible to say that the vast majority of fans backed Cathro. It is an assumption based on what fact?

In my opinion there is a difference between the support the team get compared to a coach. Look at the reaction from the fans to Cathro rather than the players after the Dunfermline game.

 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Well I disagree I don't think that all fans back every coach the same by " default" as you suggest. I don't believe it possible to say that the vast majority of fans backed Cathro. It is an assumption based on what fact?

In my opinion there is a difference between the support the team get compared to a coach. Look at the reaction from the fans to Cathro rather than the players after the Dunfermline game.

 

 

If you're saying the majority of Hearts fans didn't back the new head coach, I say that's bollocks and you've said nothing to change my mind.

But there you go, it's all about opinions. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Well I disagree I don't think that all fans back every coach the same by " default" as you suggest. I don't believe it possible to say that the vast majority of fans backed Cathro. It is an assumption based on what fact?

In my opinion there is a difference between the support the team get compared to a coach. Look at the reaction from the fans to Cathro rather than the players after the Dunfermline game.

 

By the way I didn't say fans back every coach the same - sneaky.

[wavydavy]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

If you're saying the majority of Hearts fans didn't back the new head coach, I say that's bollocks and you've said nothing to change my mind.

But there you go, it's all about opinions. 

You have said nothing to back up your theory or at least the one you are backing and you are not responding to my point but just reprating the same thing.

 

You seem to like bollocks you use it quite a lot.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

You have said nothing to back up your theory or at least the one you are backing and you are not responding to my point but just reprating the same thing.

 

You seem to like bollocks you use it quite a lot.

This is simple Davy- these are opinions and there's no way of proving right or wrong. 

That said, I think you're way wrong, and the fact you've resorted to distorting my point to get somewhere backs that up imo - I never said fans back all new coaches the same, just that the vast majority of fans backed the new head coach. 

 

You've said nothing to change my mind, get over it. I'm over the fact that that I haven't changed yours. 

[wavydavy]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

By the way I didn't say fans back every coach the same - sneaky.

You said it was the default of most fans to support their team and coach.

So are you saying there are exceptions now.

[Unknown user]

Just now, wavydavy said:

You said it was the default of most fans to support their team and coach.

So are you saying there are exceptions now.

Nope, I'm saying that you misrepresented me

[wavydavy]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

This is simple Davy- these are opinions and there's no way of proving right or wrong. 

That said, I think you're way wrong, and the fact you've resorted to distorting my point to get somewhere backs that up imo - I never said fans back all new coaches the same, just that the vast majority of fans backed the new head coach. 

 

You've said nothing to change my mind, get over it. I'm over the fact that that I haven't changed yours. 

It's a bit rich that you are saying I am resorting to distorting your point when you have now changed what you said earlier about backing the new head coach.

[wavydavy]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Nope, I'm saying that you misrepresented me

 Back Pedalling you mean.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

It's a bit rich that you are saying I am resorting to distorting your point when you have now changed what you said earlier about backing the new head coach.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I said that fans backed the new coach, I didn't say that fans back all new coaches the same. 

 

Tbh though I'm done, people can decide for themselves if they care enough to read this shite. Meanwhile, you've just irritated your way onto the block list, you're far too exhausting to bother with. 

[Spencer]

1 hour ago, Skacelsid said:

If we have state of the art coaching and training methods, and are developing the coaches of the future why were we all over the place at Easter road and again on Saturday against a poor Rangers team. There is no organisation and no obvious shape or system, the players do not close down or get back when possession is lost, they are static when we have a set-piece. Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place. It is hard to remember the last really enjoyable team performance. We are back at Tynie soon, have a couple of players to come back,  ( nothing special though ) ,and we will need to use the transfer window and make decent signings. But we are going back the way as a club. We are seeing some youngsters coming through, and they must be encouraged but they are not ready to start games in a struggling team and we all know that a promising youngster and a top league player are two different things. The jury is still out on our youth development, we have been under-achieving for years in that department. We have a hard season ahead there is no doubt. Craig Levein's '' new way '' has failed and if he cannot put it right he will go, but when.

Good post mate 

 

Spot on 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Spencer said:

Good post mate 

 

Spot on 

I'm not so sure.

'Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place' - yet only this week Isma's been in the papers taking about the differences in playing style and training.

 

I agree that he'll stand or fall by what happens next of course, but I don't think this is a continuation of the Cathro era. Craig's got his own way of doing things, the players are adjusting, a fair few are injured, and I'm sure we're all desperately hoping it'll come together at tynecastle.

[wavydavy]

15 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I said that fans backed the new coach, I didn't say that fans back all new coaches the same. 

 

Tbh though I'm done, people can decide for themselves if they care enough to read this shite. Meanwhile, you've just irritated your way onto the block list, you're far too exhausting to bother with. 

 

I am not going to post anymore on this with you as we clearly could go back and forwards all night and never agree other than show you what you wrote earlier. And as always these things work two ways I find you irritating also.

 

Quote.

 

The default position for the vast majority of football fans is support for their team and manager/ head coach. You can try to argue with that but it's as close to an empirical fact as you can get in football.

 

 

With that in mind are you honestly saying the vast majority of Hearts fans weren't behind the new Hearts head coach when he got appointed?

 

If so, then I say Bollocks, with a capital B

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

I'm not so sure.

'Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place' - yet only this week Isma's been in the papers taking about the differences in playing style and training.

 

I agree that he'll stand or fall by what happens next of course, but I don't think this is a continuation of the Cathro era. Craig's got his own way of doing things, the players are adjusting, a fair few are injured, and I'm sure we're all desperately hoping it'll come together at tynecastle.

It isn't. We've got  two CBs aged 32 & 37. We've got a CF who is 30 - with a gambling addiction. And they're not the bad guys in all of this. 

We've appointed a part time MANAGER on a 3 year contract - who used to be our DOF.

What part of cluster**** don't the fans get. ?

[Kiwidoug]

Wonder what Cathro is up to.  I get an unflattering picture of him sitting in a wee room with his laptop and beanie.

[merseyjambo]

Following and supporting your team doesn’t necessarily equate to supporting your Head Coach.

 

The way I look at it is CL has had 3 problems with the support when he took the job on

 

1. The Cathro Experiment - Cathro was his man, his choice for head coach based on his experience when he was at United. He was untested at any sort of player management level and was a risk. For whatever reason, he was offered a 3 year contract not the contract RN was signing on a rolling basis which has made it a very expensive mistake. It was blatantly obvious at end of last season that Cathro was out of his depth yet he was still given the summer to recruit and bring in players to suit his preferred formation. When he eventually went, CL wanted to go back to the boot room mentality and promote another untried man in JD. His stubbornness in his vision of what he wants is verging on VR proportions of ego. HMFC are not his personal play thing to experiment with.

2. The Signing Policy - No one on here truly knows how much influence that CL has had on signings over the last few seasons. There has been chat in the papers from various people that indicate that RN & IC wanted the players and other suggestions they had little say on who was brought in. It can be argued about until the end of time but the truth is that we the fans have no idea. As DOF, my take on it is that at a bare minimum he was involved in the wages/contract side of negotiations. From that point of view he holds some responsibility for the mess we are in as he has not done his due diligence for the club by discussing what the signing of whichever player it was from the list we have brought in for the managers. There are too many examples of players we have brought in with no idea of what they could possibly add to the squad or their suitability for playing in SPFL.

3. The Interview Process - Again from only what was in the press, it’s clear that this appears to have been flawed. AB spoke about the quality of candidate we had applications from. Yet from this vast array of candidates, we interviewed 4 or 5SPH and SP should never have been on the list as neither had proven themselves at a higher level than a Scottish Championship club. JD was only included due to CLs boot room vision and again was someone that in any other business wouldn’t have got through the paper sift. That left Freedman and Davies. I’m not sure Freedman was ever interested and was just promoting his availability. Davies much as though I don’t like him clearly didn’t like what the club had to say about the structure and withdrew from process. What happened to the other quality candidates. Who on earth thought SPH, SP or JD would be a better candidate than for example Owen Coyle. CLs influence clearly showing again as 3 of them have extremely unremarkable CVs. 

 

Should CL have taken a back seat from the footballing side of things, in all honesty probably. He is tainted by the failure of IC and his boot room ideas. For this reason, he is not going to have the full support of the fans. 

 

No no fan wants HMFC to fail or struggle on the playing side but the 5 year plan has fallen on its ass, we’ve regressed with the football played on the park, we are signing another faceless cast of thousands and paying out so much in compensation for cancelled contracts as well as to our previous manager. All of this has happened on his watch yet his accountability for this appears to be zero. If he was a director in a civilian job, he’d have been sacked a long time ago. 

 

Fans have the the right to question when you look at this logically, why he is still at the club. It doesn’t make them CL haters it makes them people that care about HMFC and the decisions being made on the footballing side of the business

[i wish jj was my dad]

9 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

The default position for the vast majority of football fans is support for their team and manager/ head coach. You can try to argue with that but it's as close to an empirical fact as you can get in football.

 

 

With that in mind are you honestly saying the vast majority of Hearts fans weren't behind the new Hearts head coach when he got appointed?

 

If so, then I say Bollocks, with a capital B

 

This is true but sadly a very tedious but noisy minority of our 'support' are hell bent on doing the club down at every opportunity.   Much of it is down to an unhealthy dislike of CL much like Michael Stewart.  But my recollection of Cathro's appointment was one of much excitement and while most of us recognised it was a risk I can't remember many or anybody for that matter suggesting it wasn't one worth taking.  It went spectacularly wrong but the guy responsible for his appointment has stepped in to fix it.  His previous record strongly suggests he will do that.  He's not being helped by having to play every game away from Tynecastle or having our first choice midfield out but for what it's worth I suspect that this time next year the criticisms being directed towards him will be about his perceived arrogance rather than our results. 

[The Comedian]

1 hour ago, merseyjambo said:

Following and supporting your team doesn’t necessarily equate to supporting your Head Coach.

 

The way I look at it is CL has had 3 problems with the support when he took the job on

 

1. The Cathro Experiment - Cathro was his man, his choice for head coach based on his experience when he was at United. He was untested at any sort of player management level and was a risk. For whatever reason, he was offered a 3 year contract not the contract RN was signing on a rolling basis which has made it a very expensive mistake. It was blatantly obvious at end of last season that Cathro was out of his depth yet he was still given the summer to recruit and bring in players to suit his preferred formation. When he eventually went, CL wanted to go back to the boot room mentality and promote another untried man in JD. His stubbornness in his vision of what he wants is verging on VR proportions of ego. HMFC are not his personal play thing to experiment with.

2. The Signing Policy - No one on here truly knows how much influence that CL has had on signings over the last few seasons. There has been chat in the papers from various people that indicate that RN & IC wanted the players and other suggestions they had little say on who was brought in. It can be argued about until the end of time but the truth is that we the fans have no idea. As DOF, my take on it is that at a bare minimum he was involved in the wages/contract side of negotiations. From that point of view he holds some responsibility for the mess we are in as he has not done his due diligence for the club by discussing what the signing of whichever player it was from the list we have brought in for the managers. There are too many examples of players we have brought in with no idea of what they could possibly add to the squad or their suitability for playing in SPFL.

3. The Interview Process - Again from only what was in the press, it’s clear that this appears to have been flawed. AB spoke about the quality of candidate we had applications from. Yet from this vast array of candidates, we interviewed 4 or 5SPH and SP should never have been on the list as neither had proven themselves at a higher level than a Scottish Championship club. JD was only included due to CLs boot room vision and again was someone that in any other business wouldn’t have got through the paper sift. That left Freedman and Davies. I’m not sure Freedman was ever interested and was just promoting his availability. Davies much as though I don’t like him clearly didn’t like what the club had to say about the structure and withdrew from process. What happened to the other quality candidates. Who on earth thought SPH, SP or JD would be a better candidate than for example Owen Coyle. CLs influence clearly showing again as 3 of them have extremely unremarkable CVs. 

 

Should CL have taken a back seat from the footballing side of things, in all honesty probably. He is tainted by the failure of IC and his boot room ideas. For this reason, he is not going to have the full support of the fans. 

 

No no fan wants HMFC to fail or struggle on the playing side but the 5 year plan has fallen on its ass, we’ve regressed with the football played on the park, we are signing another faceless cast of thousands and paying out so much in compensation for cancelled contracts as well as to our previous manager. All of this has happened on his watch yet his accountability for this appears to be zero. If he was a director in a civilian job, he’d have been sacked a long time ago. 

 

Fans have the the right to question when you look at this logically, why he is still at the club. It doesn’t make them CL haters it makes them people that care about HMFC and the decisions being made on the footballing side of the business

 

^^^^

 

The best post you will read today.

[Coco]

With the poor squad Levein and the head coaches have created it would be cutting off our nose to spite our face to not clear out and rebuild. 

 

But given Levein's role in creating this system he should be judged on the team as it is now.  Should be remembered that this statement was before Cathro was slid in by Levein - and then Levein sanctioned binning a substantial number of players and signing a load of others.  How can the Board take Levein seriously when he gives them the presentation on what he is doing with all football matters?

 

“The idea is to have some sort of continuity,” he said. “That’s what the whole thing is based around. What happens at a lot of clubs is that they have a manager and they are successful or they are not. If they are successful, he leaves and somebody else comes in who might want a different style of management and change the way things are done. Even worse than that, if a manager doesn’t do well, a new manager comes in, wants rid of all those players and all the costs that are attached to that. If there is a level of continuity, then everybody knows what it is we are looking for, what players we are looking for, who we are scouting. Also, we are developing our own young players to come in and sit within the team. I would be very surprised if the person we brought in didn’t like the players that we have.”

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/craig-levein-i-want-new-hearts-coach-in-for-ibrox-trip-1-4307636

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Levein needs time and he also needs a fit midfield. To be equal and fair to him we’re improved than under cathro of that there is no doubt as we have actually picked up a few points.

 

Hibs and Rangers(even at their worst) are just better teams than Hearts the now, folk need to just get over it basically. It’s not the first time and it won’t be the last. The games vs the lower teams are now the important ones as we have 6 or 7 of them at home in a row. 

 

This run of games coming up is the defining one for levein. We need to win these home games or the league season is effectively over, these games can be free home points for us as long as we play with the right attitude and intensity. We should be going into that Celtic game unbeaten in 7 and if levein can’t do something resembling that it’s going to be shooglie peg time. He doesn’t get the benefit of patience, the fans blame him for the mess the team is in and rightly so. He has overseen a catastrophic 2017 when things were actually looking decent  prior to the disastrous cathro appointment which was 100% levein and levein only decision

 

[Haken]

1 hour ago, merseyjambo said:

Following and supporting your team doesn’t necessarily equate to supporting your Head Coach.

 

The way I look at it is CL has had 3 problems with the support when he took the job on

 

1. The Cathro Experiment - Cathro was his man, his choice for head coach based on his experience when he was at United. He was untested at any sort of player management level and was a risk. For whatever reason, he was offered a 3 year contract not the contract RN was signing on a rolling basis which has made it a very expensive mistake. It was blatantly obvious at end of last season that Cathro was out of his depth yet he was still given the summer to recruit and bring in players to suit his preferred formation. When he eventually went, CL wanted to go back to the boot room mentality and promote another untried man in JD. His stubbornness in his vision of what he wants is verging on VR proportions of ego. HMFC are not his personal play thing to experiment with.

2. The Signing Policy - No one on here truly knows how much influence that CL has had on signings over the last few seasons. There has been chat in the papers from various people that indicate that RN & IC wanted the players and other suggestions they had little say on who was brought in. It can be argued about until the end of time but the truth is that we the fans have no idea. As DOF, my take on it is that at a bare minimum he was involved in the wages/contract side of negotiations. From that point of view he holds some responsibility for the mess we are in as he has not done his due diligence for the club by discussing what the signing of whichever player it was from the list we have brought in for the managers. There are too many examples of players we have brought in with no idea of what they could possibly add to the squad or their suitability for playing in SPFL.

3. The Interview Process - Again from only what was in the press, it’s clear that this appears to have been flawed. AB spoke about the quality of candidate we had applications from. Yet from this vast array of candidates, we interviewed 4 or 5SPH and SP should never have been on the list as neither had proven themselves at a higher level than a Scottish Championship club. JD was only included due to CLs boot room vision and again was someone that in any other business wouldn’t have got through the paper sift. That left Freedman and Davies. I’m not sure Freedman was ever interested and was just promoting his availability. Davies much as though I don’t like him clearly didn’t like what the club had to say about the structure and withdrew from process. What happened to the other quality candidates. Who on earth thought SPH, SP or JD would be a better candidate than for example Owen Coyle. CLs influence clearly showing again as 3 of them have extremely unremarkable CVs. 

 

Should CL have taken a back seat from the footballing side of things, in all honesty probably. He is tainted by the failure of IC and his boot room ideas. For this reason, he is not going to have the full support of the fans. 

 

No no fan wants HMFC to fail or struggle on the playing side but the 5 year plan has fallen on its ass, we’ve regressed with the football played on the park, we are signing another faceless cast of thousands and paying out so much in compensation for cancelled contracts as well as to our previous manager. All of this has happened on his watch yet his accountability for this appears to be zero. If he was a director in a civilian job, he’d have been sacked a long time ago. 

 

Fans have the the right to question when you look at this logically, why he is still at the club. It doesn’t make them CL haters it makes them people that care about HMFC and the decisions being made on the footballing side of the business

Wouldn't argue with a word of that. 

[Skacelsid]

8 hours ago, Smithee said:

I'm not so sure.

'Cathro is gone but the '' big plan '' is still very much in place' - yet only this week Isma's been in the papers taking about the differences in playing style and training.

 

I agree that he'll stand or fall by what happens next of course, but I don't think this is a continuation of the Cathro era. Craig's got his own way of doing things, the players are adjusting, a fair few are injured, and I'm sure we're all desperately hoping it'll come together at tynecastle.

My point was Cathro was only one part of the structure, and yes we have abandoned his slow possession ideals ( at least at first team level ) but his student coaches are still there. We need to get back to basics at all levels, that does not mean we cannot play decent football along the way. There is a change in '' style '',our fitness is better and there is plenty of effort but it is not easy on the eye and we are not making progress. It was a great achievement to run away with the championship at the first time of asking and CL along with others must take great credit for that. I do not want further turmoil at our club and would prefer that CL was putting us back on track. Every part of the football side of the club needs to be re-examined though, Coaching, training, youth development, scouting, agents, recent signings, contracts. Our first team squad is thin and we will need to battle for the rest of the season. The '' different way '' has failed, scrap it.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

This is true but sadly a very tedious but noisy minority of our 'support' are hell bent on doing the club down at every opportunity.   Much of it is down to an unhealthy dislike of CL much like Michael Stewart.  But my recollection of Cathro's appointment was one of much excitement and while most of us recognised it was a risk I can't remember many or anybody for that matter suggesting it wasn't one worth taking.  It went spectacularly wrong but the guy responsible for his appointment has stepped in to fix it.  His previous record strongly suggests he will do that.  He's not being helped by having to play every game away from Tynecastle or having our first choice midfield out but for what it's worth I suspect that this time next year the criticisms being directed towards him will be about his perceived arrogance rather than our results. 

I hope you are right but I have major doubts.

[wavydavy]

53 minutes ago, Coco said:

With the poor squad Levein and the head coaches have created it would be cutting off our nose to spite our face to not clear out and rebuild. 

 

But given Levein's role in creating this system he should be judged on the team as it is now.  Should be remembered that this statement was before Cathro was slid in by Levein - and then Levein sanctioned binning a substantial number of players and signing a load of others.  How can the Board take Levein seriously when he gives them the presentation on what he is doing with all football matters?

 

“The idea is to have some sort of continuity,” he said. “That’s what the whole thing is based around. What happens at a lot of clubs is that they have a manager and they are successful or they are not. If they are successful, he leaves and somebody else comes in who might want a different style of management and change the way things are done. Even worse than that, if a manager doesn’t do well, a new manager comes in, wants rid of all those players and all the costs that are attached to that. If there is a level of continuity, then everybody knows what it is we are looking for, what players we are looking for, who we are scouting. Also, we are developing our own young players to come in and sit within the team. I would be very surprised if the person we brought in didn’t like the players that we have.”

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/craig-levein-i-want-new-hearts-coach-in-for-ibrox-trip-1-4307636

 

Bang on Coco but just ike me you will be accused of being a Levein Hater for daring to point out what his vision for the club is and how he has deviated from it

 

It has gone spectacularlly wrong and yet so many on here fail to either see or admit it.

 

We can all see that he has had to change the style of play to try and fit in with the limited abilities of the majority of the team and we are still way short in the standard we need to play attractive winning football.

 

Anyone looking at this current Hearts side would not be far wrong if they thought that we had only just come out of Administration.

[TexasAndy]

32 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

My point was Cathro was only one part of the structure, and yes we have abandoned his slow possession ideals ( at least at first team level ) but his student coaches are still there. We need to get back to basics at all levels, that does not mean we cannot play decent football along the way. There is a change in '' style '',our fitness is better and there is plenty of effort but it is not easy on the eye and we are not making progress. It was a great achievement to run away with the championship at the first time of asking and CL along with others must take great credit for that. I do not want further turmoil at our club and would prefer that CL was putting us back on track. Every part of the football side of the club needs to be re-examined though, Coaching, training, youth development, scouting, agents, recent signings, contracts. Our first team squad is thin and we will need to battle for the rest of the season. The '' different way '' has failed, scrap it.

The one thing that seems to be bang on is youth development but yes everything else is under scrutiny.

[Section G The Place To Be]

14 hours ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

 

This is the thing, you last sentence is wrong.

 

Again

 

1st

3rd

5th

?- 

 

Although not great, hardly a failure.

 

You want cl out, I get it.

The thing is, no one cares, he's staying so you'd be better getting behind the team and if you have concerns, air them in a far more controlled and balanced way.

 

Do yourself a favour, take a step back, enjoy the new stand and get behind what cl is doing.if not your in for a shite time.

 

You don't see going from 3rd to 5th as a failure?  That's without even going into the failed transfer windows, signings, contracts, tactics, style of play, results.

 

Mate I can fully understand some people being overly defensive of the club. In my 50 years I've been as defensive at times. There comes a point though where defending out of loyalty becomes stupidity. It is glaringly obvious to anyone that there are problems at the club just now, and have been for some time. Sitting with fingers in both ears shouting La La La La and burying your head in the sand will not make the problems go away. The fans are quite rightly frustrated and angry, we put a lot of money into the club we love, and when the club can't even get the basics of football right then obviously people are going to question things. If as fans we all sat back and said nothing progress would never be made. 

 

Forget this new stand crap as well mate. I'll liken it to having a dream car Ferrari without actually having driving licence. The product on the park has to be right or what is the point ? it'll be empty every week.

[wavydavy]

38 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

The one thing that seems to be bang on is youth development but yes everything else is under scrutiny.

 

The signs are promising yes but giving  a few 16/17 year olds games when they are clearly not ready is not proof that things are working.

 

Once these guy are regulars in the first team and attracting interest from other clubs as for example Tierney is doing then you can say it is bang on.

 

Until then we can say yes things are looking on the way up but as we all know things can change very quickly with young players.

 

Think back to Billy King, Gary Oliver etc.

[Bazzas right boot]

40 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

You don't see going from 3rd to 5th as a failure?  That's without even going into the failed transfer windows, signings, contracts, tactics, style of play, results.

 

Mate I can fully understand some people being overly defensive of the club. In my 50 years I've been as defensive at times. There comes a point though where defending out of loyalty becomes stupidity. It is glaringly obvious to anyone that there are problems at the club just now, and have been for some time. Sitting with fingers in both ears shouting La La La La and burying your head in the sand will not make the problems go away. The fans are quite rightly frustrated and angry, we put a lot of money into the club we love, and when the club can't even get the basics of football right then obviously people are going to question things. If as fans we all sat back and said nothing progress would never be made. 

 

Forget this new stand crap as well mate. I'll liken it to having a dream car Ferrari without actually having driving licence. The product on the park has to be right or what is the point ? it'll be empty every week.

 

3rd to 5th, then cathro got sacked......

 

Hardly the worse team in 30 years, as many are making out.

 

No one is saying there isn't issues, highlighted by Cathro's time.

 

To say CL has been a failure in his time with us over the past 3/4 years is wrong, we had good progress followed by going backwards, this has resulted in CL being put directly  in charge.

 

He's been in charge 2 months and we haven't played at Tynecastle under him- we classing this as a failure? he's won as many games away as the whole of last season and beaten more teams away than last season.

So CL has improved us since Cathro left, again hardly a failure......

 

Recruitment needs sorted and there was a clear shift in the last window to more domestic players, we need to improve further but this whole thing has been blown out of proportion as per.

 

If CL gets stick for appointing Cathro he also gets praise for the first two seasons? or are we just choosing what CL is responsible for to suit our own agenda?

 

No one forces any fan to go to games or contribute to FoH, its a choice, if you feel you are due something from the club for giving this money, then maybe you should stop. Not every  fan will be happy, no matter what, case in point- many were unhappy under Robbie despite 1st, 3rd then sitting 2nd/3rd again under him.

 

I'm confident that we'll be better at home, I'm confident we'll be better with players returning, I'm confident we will improve from last year and the LC debacle ( we already have) and the last window showed some change in the transfer policy, so I am confident we'll recruit better in January.

 

CL has most to prove and most to lose out of this, not you or me. No one will want this to go right as much as him, Christ, he's spent 20 years with us.

 

All this while  sitting in our Ferrari of a stadium.

 

I am not defensive, I am realistic and can see  beyond a disappointing defeat to  hibs.

Edited November 3, 2017 by BigDave'sHeed

[Toggie88]

8 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

3rd to 5th, then cathro got sacked......

 

Hardly the worse team in 30 years, as many are making out.

 

No one is saying there isn't issues, highlighted by Cathro's time.

 

To say CL has been a failure in his time with us over the past 3/4 years is wrong, we had good progress followed by going backwards, this has resulted in CL being put directly  in charge.

 

He's been in charge 2 months and we haven't played at Tynecastle under him- we classing this as a failure? he's won as many games away as the whole of last season and beaten more teams away than last season.

So CL has improved us since Cathro left, again hardly a failure......

 

Recruitment needs sorted and there was a clear shift in the last window to more domestic players, we need to improve further but this whole thing has been blown out of proportion as per.

 

If CL gets stick for appointing Cathro he also gets praise for the first two seasons? or are we just choosing what CL is responsible for to suit our own agenda?

 

No one forces any fan to go to games or contribute to FoH, its a choice, if you feel you are due something from the club for giving this money, then maybe you should stop. Not every  fan will be happy, no matter what, case in point- many were unhappy under Robbie despite 1st, 3rd then sitting 2nd/3rd again under him.

 

I'm confident that we'll be better at home, I'm confident we'll be better with players returning, I'm confident we will improve from last year and the LC debacle ( we already have) and the last window showed some change in the transfer policy, so I am confident we'll recruit better in January.

 

CL has most to prove and most to lose out of this, not you or me. No one will want this to go right as much as him, Christ, he's spent 20 years with us.

 

All this while  sitting in our Ferrari of a stadium.

 

I am not defensive, I am realistic and can see  beyond a disappointing defeat to  hibs.

 

Haven't read this entire thread, but the above post reads as a bit 'clutching at straws' tbh. Trying to claim that we're moving forward because CL has a better record than Cathro just doesn't wash. 

 

The way I see it, CL came in with a plan which would see us grow our own coaches through the academy, with a 'Hearts' ethos and style of play that would stay the same going forward. 

 

It was an admirable plan and if it worked, it be fairly unique in world football but judging CL on achieving what he set out to do, he has failed on all accounts. Given it's also the 4th year of this 3-5 year plan, I would say in any other normal line of work, you'd have pulled the plug well before now.