Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[merseyjambo]

As I’ve said on another thread, I don’t think anyone will ever really know how much influence CL has had in the recruitment process. As DOF I would assume that there has been some sort of signing off on the targets in respect of wages, contract lengths etc. Therefore if he has not questioned what guys like Grzelak, Osh, Anderson etc are bringing to the squad he is as culpable as the manager who brought the players in. 

 

It’s the price now being paid for allowing so many nondescript foreign players or utility players being signed. 

 

This is has to be CL’s last chance with club after the Cathro experiment and the fact that players that we have let go will have been paid off from their contracts has probably cost the club a good few hundred thousand 

 

 

[Rudy T]

So hold on, there's no denying we've recruited badly and Levein has been involved in every single window. But what are people suggesting we now sack Levein? Then what, appoint who and what would a new manager do with the same squad?

 

He's absolutely the right man for this job at this stage. His experience is better than anyone we could afford, he knows the club's finances inside out and has to recruit new players within those limits and make sure they are good enough to get us to the summer in good shape.

 

It would be utter lunacy to get rid of him, he's culpable for the mess now he needs to fix it by being the very best manager he can be.

[ford donald]

3 hours ago, Elias Henry Furst said:

I very much doubt Craig Levein will be our manager next season.

 

I have doubts whether he’ll be at the club in any capacity.

 He will have to succeed as manager or else he will be history.

[Ulysses]

22 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

He's absolutely the right man for this job at this stage.

 

He isn't.  The real problem is not that he isn't the right man now; it's that he wasn't the right man when he was given the job.  But because that decision was made, we have to sit it out and hope it goes well.  So far, he has us looking good for 7th, or maybe a top six finish if we get lucky.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, tolcross lad said:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-chief-craig-levein-says-10528900

Nowhere in that article does Levein say he is personally responsible for player recruitment. He just says the last  two windows have been poor 

[Escobar PHM]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Nowhere in that article does Levein say he is personally responsible for player recruitment. He just says the last  two windows have been poor 

If its not the DOF who is responsible for player recruitment, who is it ? and why do we even have a  DOF if he isn't responsible ?

 

 

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

If its not the DOF who is responsible for player recruitment, who is it ? and why do we even have a  DOF if he isn't responsible ?

 

 

Just go back and read Leveins comments from last two AGM’s if you need another explanation. It is actually pretty simple. 

[tolcross lad]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Nowhere in that article does Levein say he is personally responsible for player recruitment. He just says the last  two windows have been poor 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/15067441.Craig_Levein__Hectic_January_doesn_t_mean_Hearts__transfer_policy_has_changed___developing_young_players_is_still_what_we_do/

 

Levein has a habit of using the word "we"Who is he talking about .Of course he is personally responsible whether he delegated or not.If he left inexperienced or novice coaches with the decisions he is culpable.If he has signed off 3 year deals for Sammon Oshinawa or Martin he is responsible.He can use "we"as much as he likes but the buck stops with him.Its what he is paid for.

[i wish jj was my dad]

13 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

If its not the DOF who is responsible for player recruitment, who is it ? and why do we even have a  DOF if he isn't responsible ?

 

 

His focus as DOF was building up the infrastructure which was decimated under VR. He's done that and now he is running first team affairs. 

 

It isn't difficult to grasp.

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

His focus as DOF was building up the infrastructure which was decimated under VR. He's done that and now he is running first team affairs. 

 

It isn't difficult to grasp.

Unfortunately for quite a few seems it is. 

[merseyjambo]

26 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

His focus as DOF was building up the infrastructure which was decimated under VR. He's done that and now he is running first team affairs. 

 

It isn't difficult to grasp.

 

 

So as DOF, CL had absolutely no input in discussions with the first team coach about signings, he had no discussions with them about budget, the sanction of offering contracts and the size and length of contracts offered.

 

Are you for real.

 

What part of the job description of the DOF being responsible for all footballing matters can’t you grasp.

 

CL will have had some input in the signings, whether it be recommendations or assisting with contract negotiations, it’s just what his involvement is that no one actually knows except CL and AB

[maroonlegions]

8 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

 

So as DOF, CL had absolutely no input in discussions with the first team coach about signings, he had no discussions with them about budget, the sanction of offering contracts and the size and length of contracts offered.

 

Are you for real.

 

What part of the job description of the DOF being responsible for all footballing matters can’t you grasp.

 

CL will have had some input in the signings, whether it be recommendations or assisting with contract negotiations, it’s just what his involvement is that no one actually knows except CL and AB

 

My train of thought too.

 

Our clandestine DOF.

 

No one really knows his role as DOF. 

 

Dictionary

 

 

 

clandestine

klanˈdɛstɪn,ˈklandɛstɪn/

adjective

 

1. kept secret or done secretively, especially because illicit.

   "she deserved better than these clandestine meetings"

   synonyms:

   secret, covert, furtive, surreptitious, stealthy, cloak-and-dagger, hole-and-corner, hole-in-the-corner, closet, behind-the-scenes, backstairs, back-alley, under-the-table, hugger-mugger, concealed, hidden, private; More

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by maroonlegions

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just now, merseyjambo said:

 

 

So as DOF, CL had absolutely no input in discussions with the first team coach about signings, he had no discussions with them about budget, the sanction of offering contracts and the size and length of contracts offered.

 

Are you for real.

 

What part of the job description of the DOF being responsible for all footballing matters can’t you grasp.

 

CL will have had some input in the signings, whether it be recommendations or assisting with contract negotiations, it’s just what his involvement is that no one actually knows except CL and AB

The Head Coach selected the players he wanted. The Dof would have supported his head coach if the players were within budget. If he hadn't Michael Stewart and the seethers would have been going even more apeshit peddling their  pish about the meddling control freak pulling all the strings.

 

 

[Escobar PHM]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Just go back and read Leveins comments from last two AGM’s if you need another explanation. It is actually pretty simple. 

Yes yes I am well aware of what he says he has done with the infrastructure over 3 years. Haven't seen anything concrete emerge from it yet but I suppose there is time if it was such a mess. Although that mess was still producing decent young players before he cleaned it up.

 

Your saying recruitment of players isn't in his job description. He has nothing to do with it ?

[Escobar PHM]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

His focus as DOF was building up the infrastructure which was decimated under VR. He's done that and now he is running first team affairs. 

 

It isn't difficult to grasp.

Tell us all about this infrastructure. What was wrong with it ? Whats he done to fix it, if indeed he has fixed it ? Whats the end product from that ? Apparently its not that difficult so, the floor is yours.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[merseyjambo]

6 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

The Head Coach selected the players he wanted. The Dof would have supported his head coach if the players were within budget. If he hadn't Michael Stewart and the seethers would have been going even more apeshit peddling their  pish about the meddling control freak pulling all the strings.

 

 

 

So, as DOF, CL did have some involvement in the recruitment process.  

 

As as first team coach, how much time do you think RN or IC had to scout players through Wyscout??? How many agents do you think they spoke to??? CL would be known to agents and they would know his role. First team coach is as it sounds, responsible for coaching the first team.

 

As for spouting off about MS, yes he doesn’t like CL but it’s not as if people don’t have minds of their own . There are a lot of things about what goes on in the background in the club and statements attributed to people from the club that do not add up.

 

As I’ve said, the only people at the club who know exactly what involvement CL has had in bringing players to the club since 2013 are the board of directors and previous managers. Even then the snippets in the press could go back either side of the fence.

 

I’m not a fan of the DOF role or the boot room pyramid scheme as I don’t think for a club the size of HMFC or in Scottish football, it works.

 

Do I think the recruitment process before CL was appointed was flawed, yes. Do I think the DOF role put people off applying, yes. Do I think that we could have got better, yes and do I think that player recruitment has been poor and has gone unchecked (if CL had no involvement) especially when we had 2 people going into the job with no previous experience of running a first team, hell yes. 

 

Do I want Hearts to succeed, absolutely. I’ve gone through thick and thin for 40 years and seen some poor players and managers in that time, so this team and manager is by no means the worst I’ve seen, but I have my concerns about our continual churning of players, paying them off, costing the club money they can’t afford to throw away and I don’t believe CL truly wants to be the man in charge but I don’t believe that we can get better with the DOF system in place.

[frankblack]

34 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Tell us all about this infrastructure. What was wrong with it ? Whats he done to fix it, if indeed he has fixed it ? Whats the end product from that ? Apparently its not that difficult so, the floor is yours.

The Academy was decimated under Vlad for starters so needed rebuilt in its entirety. 

We are getting there but not finished yet.  Then we had to build a team to get out of the championship.

[NANOJAMBO]

44 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

 

My train of thought too.

 

Our clandestine DOF.

 

No one really knows his role as DOF. 

 

Dictionary

 

 

 

This.  Club philosophy was to appoint inexperienced coaches  (which the club did , twice), allow them , apparently, to tell CL (after having scouted prospective signings  themselves ), who should be signed. And CL waived the cheque  book and agreed the contracts , etc, etc.  In fairness to CL , IIRC, he quite clearly said (when we still had RN) that the coach gets the final say. Final say in what though ? 

 

Add to that (and this was the final straw for me in the way the club was being run on the footballing side)   - IC  was spending so much time on tactics that fitness was way down the list.  How on earth can that happen ?  We don't have fitness coaches ? They were being ignored ? Did CL actually have a clue as to what was going on ? 

 

I'm genuinely not a CL hater but I am struggling to see what he has done that has contributed to a successful team on the park in his role as DOF.

 

And now he's on a 3 year contract as "manager" ? 

[NANOJAMBO]

6 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

 As a director of football  it was his JOB to over see players BEFORE he sanction cheques  and handing out three year deals, there is no hiding place there, gross misconduct of his contracted employment responsibilities??

 

Guilty of negligence,that in itself is grounds for liability to.

 

Massive misjudgments of the calibre and quality of players he HAD a direct hand in sanctioning, however you want to dress those facts up. 

I couldn't find an emoji for my sarcasm. I'm not defending him. 

[tcjambo]

9 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Tell us all about this infrastructure. What was wrong with it ? Whats he done to fix it, if indeed he has fixed it ? Whats the end product from that ? Apparently its not that difficult so, the floor is yours.

Most Hearts fans largely see success as how well the first team does. Most given the same position would throw 90% of our budget on the first team and  appoint the guy with the best win record (some of you wanted Davies or Tommy Wright - how's he been doing recently?) assuming he would do the best job for the club and then when that went wrong sack the manager and start all over again. You advocate a merry go round of short term success (if you're lucky followed by long-term failure and an inevitable downwward cycle of diminishing resources  with each failure. We've been there before far too often.

 

Building infrastucure is quite rightly our aim at the momement because the club's future is wholly dependent on increasing our turnover and developing a constant stream of youth talent. In this regard Levein has done a great job. He also picked the right person to be our manager when we came out of administration.

 

Yes, some of the recruitment has been poor but the same people that are baying for his blood now wanted McHattie replaced with Oshinawa, based on nothing more than he was an international player; Malaury Martin looked a great aquisition on paper - how were we to know he would be such a disappointment: Tzolis - most of us were flabbergasted he wanted to sign for us even on a short term deal: Struna - internationalist:Tony Watt - how many were excited by his  signing: Djoum - who I still think is our most talented player and Sammon (personally I 've never rated him but McInnes wanted him apparently) another international player with previous success in Scotland. We have tried hard to find the right players and many haven't worked out.

 

However, in the long term these disappointments will pale into insignificance if we have the infrastructure right. So what has Levein ever done for us? The answer is simple - in conjuction with AB he's laid out a plan for this club for the long term survival and growth. I can only see us being in a better place in a couple of years time and I  am prepared to put up with the  disappointments at present for long term gain. So  I suspect is Ann Budge and that is why she reputedly has £40 million in the bank and we. in contrast, spend  many hours pontificiating on how good things would be if only any one of us was in charge.

 

So to  all the Levein haters out there show some perspective - you don't have the answers and stop pretending you do.

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, tcjambo said:

Most Hearts fans largely see success as how well the first team does. Most given the same position would throw 90% of our budget on the first team and  appoint the guy with the best win record (some of you wanted Davies or Tommy Wright - how's he been doing recently?) assuming he would do the best job for the club and then when that went wrong sack the manager and start all over again. You advocate a merry go round of short term success (if you're lucky followed by long-term failure and an inevitable downwward cycle of diminishing resources  with each failure. We've been there before far too often.

 

Building infrastucure is quite rightly our aim at the momement because the club's future is wholly dependent on increasing our turnover and developing a constant stream of youth talent. In this regard Levein has done a great job. He also picked the right person to be our manager when we came out of administration.

 

Yes, some of the recruitment has been poor but the same people that are baying for his blood now wanted McHattie replaced with Oshinawa, based on nothing more than he was an international player; Malaury Martin looked a great aquisition on paper - how were we to know he would be such a disappointment: Tzolis - most of us were flabbergasted he wanted to sign for us even on a short term deal: Struna - internationalist:Tony Watt - how many were excited by his  signing: Djoum - who I still think is our most talented player and Sammon (personally I 've never rated him but McInnes wanted him apparently) another international player with previous success in Scotland. We have tried hard to find the right players and many haven't worked out.

 

However, in the long term these disappointments will pale into insignificance if we have the infrastructure right. So what has Levein ever done for us? The answer is simple - in conjuction with AB he's laid out a plan for this club for the long term survival and growth. I can only see us being in a better place in a couple of years time and I  am prepared to put up with the  disappointments at present for long term gain. So  I suspect is Ann Budge and that is why she reputedly has £40 million in the bank and we. in contrast, spend  many hours pontificiating on how good things would be if only any one of us was in charge.

 

So to  all the Levein haters out there show some perspective - you don't have the answers and stop pretending you do.

 

Regarding the highlighted part above you can only make a claim like this once we have a stream on youngsters coming through into the first team and making an improvement to our performances and being sold on for a decent profit which is part of Levein's remit. Your comments are only partially true at this point in time. I don't think there is any doubt that he has made a lot of changes in the recruitment of our youth players for hopefully the better. However giving a few games to some 16/17 year olds does not mean he has succeeded.

It will take a number of years before we can see if his plan has worked.

[thewiseone]

There is little chance of this being satisfactorily turned around by those presently in charge,unless they are prepared to radically challenge their own views and beliefs,  how can those responsible for creating a situation possibly  be expected to fix it, it doesn't make sense, they would need the acquisition of new tools.

What new methods, new insight, fresh ideas and realisations do they now possess which they didn't 3 months ago.It will be helpful for supporters to know so we can back them in their decisions.

As I see things it didn't finish great first time around, one dimensional, lacked flair and failed to take advantage of weakened Old Firm challenge Leicester -

didn't set world alight then, Dundee United benefited from stabilising but at that time had his trusted lieutenant who appeared to compliment this turgedness with a bit more expansive ideas and openness, Scotland were bereft of any flair and appeared to lack belief and motivation to carry out the managers vision. So what has changed in the approach now adopted as oppose to then which fans can see and know is heading in the correct direction.Why is it going to be different this time around?

I am desperate to see better football and the return of flair, fight, endeavour, the creation of chances and something the fans can get behind, however Saturday saddened me as I looked on along with many others to witness a great Hearts servant bereft of idea, and most importantly enthusiasm displaying a lack of fight and will, I actually felt quite sorry for Craig.

Probably the biggest failing of all is the inability to adapt, and instead cling on to ideas and templates which at one time served them well, however football like life has speeded up, tried and trusted methods once employed are outdated , the more we cling on the less we grow and if we're not growing we regress. If the person in charge is regressing there can never be progression, irrespective of who is bought at which transfer window etc.

The injury situation has a direct correlation to this energy displayed and merely reflects the undercurrent being felt at almost a subliminal level.Its difficult to judge accurately just how this effects injury but I see such a correlation between injury, performance and culture within a team , it is all connected one influencing the other either in a down ward or upward spiral.Which one are we presently on?

For Hearts to be successful in relative terms over the next few seasons it will be necessary for the club to have strong leadership, so others,fans, players and the like will naturally follow, presently we have a leader who has been magnificent in her role but abdicated her leadership role, as the head of Heart of Midlothianfootball club, Hearts, now more of a community service and less of a football club. 

Its staring us in the face what needs to happen, until then the rest is just as a consequence of the real underlying issues. 

Blaming it on him, her or whoever is futile what we need is strong leadership of the football club, the rest will cease to be an issue as fans see progression, have something we recognise and understand to be improvement.

Strong leadership will see a return of togetherness, a sense of going in the right direction and most importantly the reconnect of what was once the best support in Scotland.

 

 

 

 

[It should have been ten]

5 hours ago, Rudy T said:

So hold on, there's no denying we've recruited badly and Levein has been involved in every single window. But what are people suggesting we now sack Levein? Then what, appoint who and what would a new manager do with the same squad?

 

He's absolutely the right man for this job at this stage. His experience is better than anyone we could afford, he knows the club's finances inside out and has to recruit new players within those limits and make sure they are good enough to get us to the summer in good shape.

 

It would be utter lunacy to get rid of him, he's culpable for the mess now he needs to fix it by being the very best manager he can be.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by It should have been ten

[Debut 4]

11 hours ago, Rudy T said:

So hold on, there's no denying we've recruited badly and Levein has been involved in every single window. But what are people suggesting we now sack Levein? Then what, appoint who and what would a new manager do with the same squad?

 

He's absolutely the right man for this job at this stage. His experience is better than anyone we could afford, he knows the club's finances inside out and has to recruit new players within those limits and make sure they are good enough to get us to the summer in good shape.

 

It would be utter lunacy to get rid of him, he's culpable for the mess now he needs to fix it by being the very best manager he can be.

Correct.

 

People need to stop and think.

 

What would change under the current squad if we got another new manager?... It’s CL responsibility to get us somewhere respectable come the end of the season.

 

Like him or not he’s a Hearts man with only good intentions.

 

Along with that he’s experienced and been here before.

 

It’s quality and lack of depth that’s our problem and no matter who we blame for that you could see before the last two games there’s been slight improvement in our attitude on the park , and he’s guided us reasonably well through a tough away run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by Debut 4

[Skacelsid]

On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 14:30, jbee647 said:

The whole set up is flawed, this coaching bootroom philosophy is not workable for a club the size of Hearts.

I will wager one of the first major decisions to happen after the FOH handover will be the disbanding of this pie in the sky project, and the appointment of the best man available to run the football team, the same way every other club is run

Anyone who believes we have any chance of ever competing with Celtic with this process is completely deluded.

The only way us or anyone else will have even the remotest chance of getting close, would be if Celtic completely take there eye of the ball in a Rangers 2012 style.

The removal of Cathro should have signalled the beginning of the end of this concept that producing our own coaches is the way forward, that is when Ann Budge should have instructed her DOF to scrap the whole white elephant. If the last two matches are example of modern coaching methods, keep them, we are all over the place. The fact we are struggling to put a decent team on the pitch signals the plan is failing badly. Players win football games, but Craig Levein has stated he wants to do it a ''different way''. Despite the recent blooding of teenagers the only player of real note to come through our system since admin. is Callum Paterson and he played the game off the cuff. We produce players for the lower leagues with a very few exceptions. Enough damage has been done we need to get back to basics.

[Paul Shark]

11 hours ago, Rudy T said:

So hold on, there's no denying we've recruited badly and Levein has been involved in every single window. But what are people suggesting we now sack Levein? Then what, appoint who and what would a new manager do with the same squad?

 

He's absolutely the right man for this job at this stage. His experience is better than anyone we could afford, he knows the club's finances inside out and has to recruit new players within those limits and make sure they are good enough to get us to the summer in good shape.

 

It would be utter lunacy to get rid of him, he's culpable for the mess now he needs to fix it by being the very best manager he can be.

 

I agree with most of what you say, if Levein should have gone he should have gone with Cathro at the end of last season, he didn't and he won't be going anytime soon. I will take issue with the limited budget comment though. Levein, Neilson and Cathro have, over the last 3 years had a pretty good player budget, probably more than all but  Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen. They had enough money to supplement the championship winning team with half a dozen decent players, then improve the squad further with another 3 or 4 next time round. Instead they (All were culpable) decided to blow it on a revolving door of duds, who have cost us an absolute fortune to pay off. 

[Walter Bishop]

I still can’t get my head round people thinking Craig Levein is the “man for the job”! The footballing side of the club, 1st team wise, is an absolute disaster. 

 

After all all the hardships and the fundraising etc this guy has authorised the throwing away of hundreds of thousands of pounds. It’s a disgrace he is still in a job. 

 

Maybe if Kilmarnock beat us on Saturday, which I half expect, people will start to take notice. 

[Clerry Jambo]

16 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

I still can’t get my head round people thinking Craig Levein is the “man for the job”! The footballing side of the club, 1st team wise, is an absolute disaster. 

 

After all all the hardships and the fundraising etc this guy has authorised the throwing away of hundreds of thousands of pounds. It’s a disgrace he is still in a job. 

 

Maybe if Kilmarnock beat us on Saturday, which I half expect, people will start to take notice. 

It's been an unique season in terms of the sequence of away games plus"home" games at Murrayfield. Lets give the guy a run at Tynie and then we can evaluate where we are.

 

Don't think anyone is denying how shite we have been but the points tally isn't too bad, at the moment!

[U.S Maroon]

18 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

I still can’t get my head round people thinking Craig Levein is the “man for the job”! The footballing side of the club, 1st team wise, is an absolute disaster. 

 

After all all the hardships and the fundraising etc this guy has authorised the throwing away of hundreds of thousands of pounds. It’s a disgrace he is still in a job. 

 

Maybe if Kilmarnock beat us on Saturday, which I half expect, people will start to take notice. 

If Killie beat us I cannot see how Levein can stay in the job.  The players we have are not great but he is failing to get the best out of them. They were signed on his watch so I have no sympathy for him. If he fails to get more out of these players he should not be here for the next window.

[Haken]

I think the problem I have with this thread is that there are one or two or three posters who have a personal dislike for Levein.  That lends an obvious bias to their views.

 

I don't know the guy and have never met him.  How's he doing?  In my opinion, merely ok.  The performance against Aberdeen was probably our best of the season, but only got us a point.  We've picked up scrappy wins away to Hamilton and Ross County and at 'home' to St Johnstone.   We'd probably look at those three fixtures and hope to take 9 points; I doubt we would have under Cathro.

 

The obvious problem is we have a poor squad made worse through injuries.  Can't blame Levein for the injuries.  However, where he does come in for huge criticism as far as I'm concerned, is in the recruitment.  I don't care who had the final say - as DoF he should have made sure that whoever was coming in would improve the squad.  That blatantly hasn't been the case.  McHattie, Nicholson and King would all be an improvement in their respective positions to what we have just now.

[mitch41]

15 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

It's been an unique season in terms of the sequence of away games plus"home" games at Murrayfield. Lets give the guy a run at Tynie and then we can evaluate where we are.

 

Don't think anyone is denying how shite we have been but the points tally isn't too bad, at the moment!

Sorry Clerry but we've been waiting too long already. If you can't see the problem now you never will.

[TexasAndy]

Levein is going nowhere until January at the very least.  This thread is pointless. 

[Clerry Jambo]

27 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Sorry Clerry but we've been waiting too long already. If you can't see the problem now you never will.

We can all see the problems Mitch just think a run of “hame gemmes” can hopefully turn things around a bit. If not then yes he would need to go, but don’t fancy Daly or Fox either!!

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

Levein is going nowhere until January at the very least.  This thread is pointless. 

 

Yip.

 

[Escobar PHM]

16 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

Levein is going nowhere until January at the very least.  This thread is pointless. 

All the threads on here are pointless if you think about it. I'm not sure Ive seen a thread on here that was anything other than a discussion piece between those with time on their hands and that's what this is.

 

No amount of pages of angst on here is going to get rid of Levein. That's down to one person and she's not close to pulling the trigger yet.

 

For what its worth, I think we'd be astonished if he went before January. Only a nightmare set of results when we start the home run could see it happening before January.

 

If he gets a decent set of results I'd think that takes him to the end of the season. 6 wins from 6 really puts us back on track. If he drops 4 or 5 points in that 6 game run, the season is over (apart from the cup- anyone looking forward to that with this team ?) and he's still walking the plank.

 

The January window ? Well assuming we're not in relegation trouble we should probably just leave it alone altogether, primarily because I believe there might well be an entire new 'football department' in place come the end of this season. I'd be shocked and terribly disappointed if it was Levein going into next season. As the pointless thread title says 'Levein is not the answer'

Edited October 31, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[frankblack]

12 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

All the threads on here are pointless if you think about it. I'm not sure Ive seen a thread on here that was anything other than a discussion piece between those with time on their hands and that's what this is.

 

No amount of pages of angst on here is going to get rid of Levein. That's down to one person and she's not close to pulling the trigger yet.

 

For what its worth, I think we'd be astonished if he went before January. Only a nightmare set of results when we start the home run could see it happening before January.

 

If he gets a decent set of results I'd think that takes him to the end of the season. 6 wins from 6 really puts us back on track. If he drops 4 or 5 points in that 6 game run, the season is over (apart from the cup- anyone looking forward to that with this team ?) and he's still walking the plank.

 

The January window ? Well assuming we're not in relegation trouble we should probably just leave it alone altogether, primarily because I believe there might well be an entire new 'football department' in place come the end of this season. I'd be shocked and terribly disappointed if it was Levein going into next season. As the pointless thread title says 'Levein is not the answer'

 

I think if Levein got us top 6 with this bunch of useless players it would be enough to keep his job for another season.

[Escobar PHM]

12 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think if Levein got us top 6 with this bunch of useless players it would be enough to keep his job for another season.

It shouldn't be enough, as he is responsible for the fact that we have a useless bunch in the first place, but youre right, it probably will be.

 

Top six isn't a stick on by any means.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[Section G The Place To Be]

I was hoping after IC left Levein would "Steady the ship" a bit. So far I've seen no evidence to suggest we are any different with Levein in the dugout now. For me Levein has been the problem all along and is also responsible for the terrible recruitment, wages, contracts etc. At the very very least he is complicit as he hired IC and oversaw all transfers. 

 

The fans deserve better. We have been loyal, and have stepped forward when needed. We have the best fans in the country as far as I'm concerned and were now being treated with contempt and taken for granted. Whats the point in having a shiny new stand when we cant even get the reason for building it in the first place correct? The football side should NEVER be neglected or treated as an experiment or vanity project.

 

Driving home after Saturdays abysmal display and listening to Levein on Sportsound he didnt even sound fazed, there was no passion in his voice. If that's how the manager reacts and feels then no wonder the players don't react on the park and show no desire or fight.

 

Levein has to go simple as that. Unfortunately he seems to have far too much power at the club.

[frankblack]

26 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

I was hoping after IC left Levein would "Steady the ship" a bit. So far I've seen no evidence to suggest we are any different with Levein in the dugout now. For me Levein has been the problem all along and is also responsible for the terrible recruitment, wages, contracts etc. At the very very least he is complicit as he hired IC and oversaw all transfers. 

 

The fans deserve better. We have been loyal, and have stepped forward when needed. We have the best fans in the country as far as I'm concerned and were now being treated with contempt and taken for granted. Whats the point in having a shiny new stand when we cant even get the reason for building it in the first place correct? The football side should NEVER be neglected or treated as an experiment or vanity project.

 

Driving home after Saturdays abysmal display and listening to Levein on Sportsound he didnt even sound fazed, there was no passion in his voice. If that's how the manager reacts and feels then no wonder the players don't react on the park and show no desire or fight.

 

Levein has to go simple as that. Unfortunately he seems to have far too much power at the club.

 

Its all very well procrastinating on here but its not going to happen right now.

 

- Say we did sack him tomorrow, what is the compensation package for a Director of Football?

- Where is the money coming from to pay compensation for a replacement manager on top?

- Is there any money available to bring in players?  A new manager isn't going to be too keen without that assurance, and according to some we have to sell before we can buy.

 

I think we are stuck with Levein at least until Christmas, but probably to the ned of the season or beyond.

[Section G The Place To Be]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Its all very well procrastinating on here but its not going to happen right now.

 

- Say we did sack him tomorrow, what is the compensation package for a Director of Football?

- Where is the money coming from to pay compensation for a replacement manager on top?

- Is there any money available to bring in players?  A new manager isn't going to be too keen without that assurance, and according to some we have to sell before we can buy.

 

I think we are stuck with Levein at least until Christmas, but probably to the ned of the season or beyond.

 

I completely agree. Thats kinda what I was meaning in my last sentence when I said he has far too much power at the club. He is on a very hefty salary AFAIK. 

[FarmerTweedy]

2 hours ago, Walter Bishop said:

I still can’t get my head round people thinking Craig Levein is the “man for the job”! The footballing side of the club, 1st team wise, is an absolute disaster. 

 

After all all the hardships and the fundraising etc this guy has authorised the throwing away of hundreds of thousands of pounds. It’s a disgrace he is still in a job. 

 

Maybe if Kilmarnock beat us on Saturday, which I half expect, people will start to take notice. 

 

I can guarantee you that Kilmarnock won't beat us on Saturday!

[wavydavy]

3 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

 

I can guarantee you that Kilmarnock won't beat us on Saturday!

 

How can you guarantee this. Rather a rash statement unless you have insider knowledge from Coral's etc.

[wavydavy]

11 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its all very well procrastinating on here but its not going to happen right now.

 

- Say we did sack him tomorrow, what is the compensation package for a Director of Football?

- Where is the money coming from to pay compensation for a replacement manager on top?

- Is there any money available to bring in players?  A new manager isn't going to be too keen without that assurance, and according to some we have to sell before we can buy.

 

I think we are stuck with Levein at least until Christmas, but probably to the ned of the season or beyond.

 

Makes you wonder why AB gave him a 3 year deal in the first place. If your theory is correct then what is going to change between Xmas and the end of the season that would allow us to get rid of him then if required?

 

Levein said he would have to move players on before he could bring others in he never mentioned selling anyone. I don't think there is anyone out there foolish enough to buy any players we have.

Edited October 31, 2017 by wavydavy

[frankblack]

14 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Makes you wonder why AB gave him a 3 year deal in the first place. If your theory is correct then what is going to change between Xmas and the end of the season that would allow us to get rid of him then if required?

 

Levein said he would have to move players on before he could bring others in he never mentioned selling anyone. I don't think there is anyone out there foolish enough to buy any players we have.

 

Which begs the question, how do you get rid of players that are under contract and won't get a better offer elsewhere?

[Escobar PHM]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Which begs the question, how do you get rid of players that are under contract and won't get a better offer elsewhere?

We managed to move on quite a few duds with minimal costs roundabout the time Cathro was being appointed.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Which begs the question, how do you get rid of players that are under contract and won't get a better offer elsewhere?

 

We punt them out on loan like Sammon to get some of his wages paid, or we come up with a financial settlement to terminate the contract - like Osh, Rherras, etc.

 

Either way it is money down the drain and a criminal waste of our money!

[Section G The Place To Be]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Which begs the question, how do you get rid of players that are under contract and won't get a better offer elsewhere?

 

 

Also begs the other question of why did AB allow Levein to take over when it was him that oversaw all these shambolic signings? 

[Thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

We managed to move on quite a few duds with minimal costs roundabout the time Cathro was being appointed.

 

 

How do you know it was "minimal" cost?

[Thomaso]

Just now, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

 

Also begs the other question of why did AB allow Levein to take over when it was him that oversaw all these shambolic signings? 

 

Basically "You caused this shambles Craig - so you sort it!"

[Section G The Place To Be]

Just now, Thomaso said:

 

Basically "You caused this shambles Craig - so you sort it!"

 

 

I wouldn't appoint someone that has caused a shambles to fix that shambles. If they can't do the job first time or after 3 years then they will never manage the job. Especially when it's someone as stubborn and arrogant as Levein.