Heartsmad1874 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 These were things fans wanted and got. What fans want is a decent manager and a decent team to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 It is called passion for our football club, something that is not coming from the dug out for sure. So calling for a knee-jerk reaction from the club within hours of the working week beginning is 'passion for the club'? Please. Football operates on a lot more than 'passion'. I'd rather the club was run soberly and by people taking time to make good decisions with a clear plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 What fans want is a decent manager and a decent team to support. Agreed. These things are not as easy to come across though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowmans_Boot Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I think they're going to back him. I have no problem with this, we desperately need a new Goalkeeper and something in midfield, elsewhere I think when proper fitness kicks in we're pretty solid. I won't be judging him on anything but league form and I don't think it'll take long to judge whether we can get the much coveted European spot that Mrs Budge has set as the target. All the abuse aimed at Cathro, Levein and Mrs Budge on here is disgusting btw. Used to think Hearts supporters had a touch of class about them, obviously not anymore. & youre actually a Hearts fan? Wow. You clearly dont care about winning any matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Compensation is the thing people have to understand. There is 3 years left of contract there. Again, a huge glaring mistake, the length of contract. I took stick for this, and I like Austin McPhee and I hope he survives, but 2 rookies together was a massive gamble. The choice of assistant was not right, not a criticism at all of Austin, but the profiles were too similar. For 3/4 year deals anyhow. It isn't a problem - or certainly NOT the problem that some people think. He will not get 3 years compo (but if he has that written into his contract then fair play to him, although it would be unheard of). If he gets the bullet he will continue to get paid on a monthly basis (I'd reckon for 12 months, max) That's how it works otherwise no club would be able to sack a manger and hire a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51john51 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 There is a fairly simple solution to the lack of funds to get rid of him, so that is definitely not the hold up. Just put him on gardening leave indefinitely for failing to achieve objectives and keep him away from the club. You are only paying a monthly salary then, which we can clearly afford. Sooner or later his ego will get the better of him and he will cut a deal at a much better rate to move on. Good lesson on why never to give 3.5 year contracts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Agreed. These things are not as easy to come across though. Compared to Hearts, since Christmas every other Premiership club has had a decent manager and team to support, many working with a fraction of Hearts resources but still bettering Hearts results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 There is a fairly simple solution to the lack of funds to get rid of him, so that is definitely not the hold up. Just put him on gardening leave indefinitely for failing to achieve objectives and keep him away from the club. You are only paying a monthly salary then, which we can clearly afford. Sooner or later his ego will get the better of him and he will cut a deal at a much better rate to move on. Good lesson on why never to give 3.5 year contracts though. Risky assumption - who is Cathro going to get a job with now? So we pay up the ?500k due to him on a monthly basis for sitting on his erse in the garden. Great! It would seem Levein has the business acumen of a 12 year old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 So calling for a knee-jerk reaction from the club within hours of the working week beginning is 'passion for the club'? Please. Football operates on a lot more than 'passion'. I'd rather the club was run soberly and by people taking time to make good decisions with a clear plan. I am just defending the fans rights to express the frustrations that have not just surfaced overnight or after one result. Knee-jerk reactions are wrong when freak results happen but we have a right to ask questions of the club when a coach is failing almost on a weekly basis. A bit of communication surely is not a huge thing to ask at a time when most people are still astonished by the poor form our coach has now carried into a new season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwasthere1954 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Love all the vermin trying to get us against Ann. its not working guys. You have to try harder. BTW F--- the hibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Not sure I agree JT, if it was just a case of finding/waiting for the right appointment, IC would be gone now as there are a few internal temporary options to get us through until that time. I think we are skint and because of the 3.5 year deals for IC and Am, we are financially hamstrung! The person to blame for this is CL! Agreed. We will know by the end of August just what the reality is - where is our much needed GK and midfielders ? Although , assuming we are actually actively looking , quite how we are going to persuade players to come here in the current predicament is going to make things even harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Why do we need to sack him? He is quite clearly an accomplished coach who has worked with top managers in the 2 best leagues in the world?? The game is different in Scotland though and he is quite obviously not a manager. Although we class him as a coach, the role is a managerial one. Offer him the chance to run the Academy and punt Levein away from the footballing side altogether. Bring in an experienced manager to work alongside MacPhee. Problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I am just defending the fans rights to express the frustrations that have not just surfaced overnight or after one result. Knee-jerk reactions are wrong when freak results happen but we have a right to ask questions of the club when a coach is failing almost on a weekly basis. A bit of communication surely is not a huge thing to ask at a time when most people are still astonished by the poor form our coach has now carried into a new season. No problem with people being frustrated. We all are. But, again, what do you expect the club to say? What could they say that would be in any way helpful? If he's not getting sacked, there's nothing to say. People need to calm down a bit. In a pre-social media time, nobody would have expected some kind of club statement. It's a bit OTT. Let them get on with their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Risky assumption - who is Cathro going to get a job with now? So we pay up the ?500k due to him on a monthly basis for sitting on his erse in the garden. Great! It would seem Levein has the business acumen of a 12 year old! Risky assumption - who is Cathro going to get a job with now? So we pay up the ?500k due to him on a monthly basis for sitting on his erse in the garden. Great! It would seem Levein has the business acumen of a 12 year old! There is no way he would be getting ?500K. No way. And if he is contractually entitled to that then someone should walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Hope we win the 4 games but i doubt it. Even 4-6 points would be an acheivment worthy of saving his job. Wish him luck as i doubt he will get anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Why do we need to sack him? He is quite clearly an accomplished coach who has worked with top managers in the 2 best leagues in the world?? The game is different in Scotland though and he is quite obviously not a manager. Although we class him as a coach, the role is a managerial one. Offer him the chance to run the Academy and punt Levein away from the footballing side altogether. Bring in an experienced manager to work alongside MacPhee. Problem solvedThat would be Budge's shout. Actually, would it not have to be a board vote to empty CL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Love all the vermin trying to get us against Ann. its not working guys. You have to try harder. BTW F--- the hibs Oh **** off. Not everyone questioning Cathro/Levein/Budge is Hibs you halfwit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I though club communication was bad under vlad. It is just as bad now. Roll up, give us your cash, we don't need to tell you anything. Boom, there it is. The club summed up in one post. Disgrace if this clown is allowed to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 It isn't a problem - or certainly NOT the problem that some people think. He will not get 3 years compo (but if he has that written into his contract then fair play to him, although it would be unheard of). If he gets the bullet he will continue to get paid on a monthly basis (I'd reckon for 12 months, max) That's how it works otherwise no club would be able to sack a manger and hire a replacement. I do not know where you are getting this from, but that is not how contract law works. It's not compensation as such - If you give someone a 3.5 year contract, and sack them, then they are due to be paid the full balance of the contract. Cathro would have to agree to something less. To avoid paying the balance of the contract, Cathro would have to have broken the terms of his contract - whilst results under him have been a disaster I do not believe that scenario will be written into his contract. If the Club dismiss him without a breach of contract taking place, and do not pay him the balance, then he will sue for compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I think they're going to back him. I have no problem with this, we desperately need a new Goalkeeper and something in midfield, elsewhere I think when proper fitness kicks in we're pretty solid. I won't be judging him on anything but league form and I don't think it'll take long to judge whether we can get the much coveted European spot that Mrs Budge has set as the target. All the abuse aimed at Cathro, Levein and Mrs Budge on here is disgusting btw. Used to think Hearts supporters had a touch of class about them, obviously not anymore. Jesus Christ! Hi Craig, it's Miss Budge not Mrs. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 So calling for a knee-jerk reaction from the club within hours of the working week beginning is 'passion for the club'? Please. Football operates on a lot more than 'passion'. I'd rather the club was run soberly and by people taking time to make good decisions with a clear plan. Are you really saying that giving 3.5 year contracts to IC and AM in full knowledge they were both a 'gamble' was good decision making by people soberly running the club and who had a clear plan????? Really!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 There is no way he would be getting ?500K. No way. And if he is contractually entitled to that then someone should walk. He has signed a 3.5 year contract, I believe at ?200k per year. If we sack him without him breaching the terms of his contract, he is entitled to 2.5 years salary at ?200k = ?500k. It is a disgrace and "someone" should walk - but that is how contract law works I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverbird Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Love all the vermin trying to get us against Ann. its not working guys. You have to try harder. BTW F--- the hibs No Hearts man would turn against Ann. She isn't exempt from criticism though,Ann was at the game on Saturday and must surely think our supporters deserve better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Are you really saying that giving 3.5 year contracts to IC and AM in full knowledge they were both a 'gamble' was good decision making by people soberly running the club and who had a clear plan????? Really!!!!! Think the penny is dropping with a few on here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 No problem with people being frustrated. We all are. But, again, what do you expect the club to say? What could they say that would be in any way helpful? If he's not getting sacked, there's nothing to say. People need to calm down a bit. In a pre-social media time, nobody would have expected some kind of club statement. It's a bit OTT. Let them get on with their work. No problem with people being frustrated. We all are. But, again, what do you expect the club to say? What could they say that would be in any way helpful? If he's not getting sacked, there's nothing to say. People need to calm down a bit. In a pre-social media time, nobody would have expected some kind of club statement. It's a bit OTT. Let them get on with their work. Maybe that we are sitting down with Cathro to see what measures we can up with to improve on a so far dismal record. Or that we consider that the appointment was not suitable for either party and we are discussing a parting of the ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Are you really saying that giving 3.5 year contracts to IC and AM in full knowledge they were both a 'gamble' was good decision making by people soberly running the club and who had a clear plan????? Really!!!!! Where did I say that? I was talking about how the club responds to results. Also, if we'd given him an 18-month deal and he'd done well, he'd have an eye on a move by now and people would be slagging the board for not giving him a longer deal. 'But look at his CV' etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Wait. So we're paying Cathro ?4000 a week?! Sake. No wonder he's been a stubborn so and so. I would be if I was picking up a packet like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Love all the vermin trying to get us against Ann. its not working guys. You have to try harder. BTW F--- the hibs Ann Budge is still well ahead on points in most people's eyes.(Boxing analogy) However she has knocked over a couple of fences lately for me.(Showjumping analogy) 1. Towing the SPFL party line over Sevco and fronting up on the statement. 2. Hesitancy/Reluctance/Refusal to pull the trigger on Cathro who is clearly not up to the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 That would be Budge's shout. Actually, would it not have to be a board vote to empty CL? Yes - unfortunately when Ann appointed Levein D of F, she also appointed him a full Board member - that just has to be unhealthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 He has signed a 3.5 year contract, I believe at ?200k per year. If we sack him without him breaching the terms of his contract, he is entitled to 2.5 years salary at ?200k = ?500k. It is a disgrace and "someone" should walk - but that is how contract law works I am afraid. I agree that "someone" should take the blame but I don't think that is how contract law works. If he takes another job his damages will be mitigated and he will be entitled to less by way of compensation. Presumably the coaching genius would soon find a new job and presumably would want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Compensation would have to be paid to another club for their manager and of course an attractive proposition in place to come and join us hound the poor ***** as soon as he draws a match. Even at Parkhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Wait. So we're paying Cathro ?4000 a week?! Sake. No wonder he's been a stubborn so and so. I would be if I was picking up a packet like that. How much did you think we would be paying him - he came from a Club paying English Premiership coaching wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 He has signed a 3.5 year contract, I believe at ?200k per year. If we sack him without him breaching the terms of his contract, he is entitled to 2.5 years salary at ?200k = ?500k. It is a disgrace and "someone" should walk - but that is how contract law works I am afraid. In any other line of work you would get sacked for being absolutely shit at your job and not getting desired results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I agree that "someone" should take the blame but I don't think that is how contract law works. If he takes another job his damages will be mitigated and he will be entitled to less by way of compensation. Presumably the coaching genius would soon find a new job and presumably would want one. That is correct - but what credibility does Cathro now have for another job in football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Maybe that we are sitting down with Cathro to see what measures we can up with to improve on a so far dismal record. Or that we consider that the appointment was not suitable for either party and we are discussing a parting of the ways. Maybe that's what they're doing. He's due some support from his employer, like anyone. How would you feel if your employer went public to say that they were thinking about binning you and were on a last-gasp salvage attempt at a bit of development? Do you think that would improve your performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Compensation would have to be paid to another club for their manager and of course an attractive proposition in place to come and join us hound the poor ***** as soon as he draws a match. Even at ParkheadA draw at Parkhead would have been greeted as a massive achievement in recent seasons. In fact anything short of an absolute humping, home or away, against Celtic has been cause for praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 In any other line of work you would get sacked for being absolutely shit at your job and not getting desired results Only after a very long process of interviews, job support, mediation, and written warnings. The Alan Sugar method of sacking will end you up in court every time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy_Jambo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 The only good thing is we're not playing Hibs in the next 4 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlingshirejambo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 There is a fairly simple solution to the lack of funds to get rid of him, so that is definitely not the hold up. Just put him on gardening leave indefinitely for failing to achieve objectives and keep him away from the club. You are only paying a monthly salary then, which we can clearly afford. Sooner or later his ego will get the better of him and he will cut a deal at a much better rate to move on. Good lesson on why never to give 3.5 year contracts though. how do you know what his objectives were? How do you know if he has achieved them or not? might not be as easy as you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 That is correct - but what credibility does Cathro now have for another job in football?People keep saying he is a sensationally good coach, some even to the extent of wanting us to keep him in that role. I am not convinced but as someone keeps telling me the likes of Rafa Bennitez is firmly in the camp of great admirers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haken Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Hope we win the 4 games but i doubt it. Even 4-6 points would be an acheivment worthy of saving his job. Wish him luck as i doubt he will get anything. I think we all want to win the 4 games, but the 4 competitive games we've seen so far suggest we'll struggle a tad. We don't play well away from home. Rugby Park has not been a happy hunting ground. Fir Park not much better, though I could see us scrapping for a point in both. This stay if execution is doing no one any favours, and that includes Cathro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I think we all want to win the 4 games, but the 4 competitive games we've seen so far suggest we'll struggle a tad. We don't play well away from home. Rugby Park has not been a happy hunting ground. Fir Park not much better, though I could see us scrapping for a point in both. This stay if execution is doing no one any favours, and that includes Cathro. We won twice at Fir Park last season and Killie are absolutely mince. Two of the best fixtures we could have asked for, considering we knew we'd be away early on. Nothing to be afraid of, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 People keep saying he is a sensationally good coach, some even to the extent of wanting us to keep him in that role. I am not convinced but as someone keeps telling me the likes of Rafa Bennitez is firmly in the camp of great admirers! People keep saying he is a sensationally good coach, some even to the extent of wanting us to keep him in that role. I am not convinced but as someone keeps telling me the likes of Rafa Bennitez is firmly in the camp of great admirers! I'm not getting that either. The 4-1 Rangers game was the style I thought we were getting - on the front foot constantly pressing and looking for quick release of passes to a mobile front 2/3 We've hardly done it since and I can only conclude that either that was a one off from newly recrutited players drawn into a fight with Rangers, or that his style is easily nullified by teams getting behind the ball when we have it and waiting for us to blink first, and playing direct long passes to forwards who are willing to run at us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith&Weston Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 To be honest, I don't think he is going anywhere this week. They will wait to see reaction on Saturday and then make a final call. Regardless of the manager, 9 times out of 10 we are going to lose. What interests me more is what Cathro does on Saturday. If I was him, I would rip up the blue-print and send 11 players out to work as hard as they possibly can. That probably means 4-5-1 and removing the non triers from the team. I don't get the fact that young Cochrane, Currie, Henderson etc have all been promoted to the first team yet we are happy to play passengers like Bauben, Djoum etc in every game. Making wholesale changes and promoting the youth gives the right message to the players and the fans but we continue to play the same team week in, week out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 & youre actually a Hearts fan? Wow. You clearly dont care about winning any matches. Actually, yes I am. Course I care, that's a ridiculous statement to make. I just don't lose my Shit every time we get beat or draw. In actual fact I'm usually over it as I leave the stadium. Not a hope in hells chance will I ever let 90 minutes of football spoil a good day out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 There is a fairly simple solution to the lack of funds to get rid of him, so that is definitely not the hold up. Just put him on gardening leave indefinitely for failing to achieve objectives and keep him away from the club. You are only paying a monthly salary then, which we can clearly afford. Sooner or later his ego will get the better of him and he will cut a deal at a much better rate to move on. Good lesson on why never to give 3.5 year contracts though. These objectives would need to be specifically written into the terms of his 3.5 year contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Maybe that's what they're doing. He's due some support from his employer, like anyone. How would you feel if your employer went public to say that they were thinking about binning you and were on a last-gasp salvage attempt at a bit of development? Do you think that would improve your performance? Is he due support from an employer though when he is failing so badly and surely it would just be just window dressing that few would believe anyway. The second point is I would probably call it a day myself before the second statement came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Actually, yes I am. Course I care, that's a ridiculous statement to make. I just don't lose my Shit every time we get beat or draw. In actual fact I'm usually over it as I leave the stadium. Not a hope in hells chance will I ever let 90 minutes of football spoil a good day out. Not much of a fan then are you??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 People keep saying he is a sensationally good coach, some even to the extent of wanting us to keep him in that role. I am not convinced but as someone keeps telling me the likes of Rafa Bennitez is firmly in the camp of great admirers! However FA, it's very easy to be complimentary about someone who doesn't have too much responsibility, make any 'big' decisions when it matters i.e. when the team is getting picked, substitutions, game plans, changing shape mid-match. I think even you could get lots of praise from Raffa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 We won twice at Fir Park last season and Killie are absolutely mince. Two of the best fixtures we could have asked for, considering we knew we'd be away early on. Nothing to be afraid of, certainly. On what evidence??? we have not been good against part time opposition 3 times already!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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