The neverending saga of Jamie Walker / no deal, he stays at Hearts (updated)

[BobbyJenkins]

We've picked up 4 points from 4 away fixtures at places we generally get our arse felt, including trips to both sets of bigots, with an interim coach in the dugout.  We've definitely experienced a helluva lot worse than that in my time and the not so distant past. 

 

Look at the bigger picture though.  Yes, Cathro was a disaster but one I and most people on here thought was worth the risk.  But he's gone now and we've taken our time to decide what to do nest.  After our first choice decided to join an EPL club we've assessed our options and appointed an experienced ex international coach as manager who has a more than decent track record at the club from his previous stint.  As safe a pair of hands as we could get I'd wager.  We've signed a current Scottish international and the country's best centre half as our captain.   Personally, I think he is arguably the best signing we've made in the last ten years.  We've also signed two current NI internationalists at the peak of their career and one of them could probably earn 3 or 4 x what we are paying given his pedigree.  No matter how much the haters tell me otherwise, I don't feel any turmoil. I'm actually right up for it.  Whether Jamie is or not is down to him  If he's not, he can clean the toilets for all I care.

 

Anyway, comparing this to last 45 years or so you really think we are in turmoil?

 

A measured perspective, great post.

[Randy Marsh]

Apparently his sister(?) having a right go at hearts fans on twitter!

She is probably as thick as Jamie.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

This instalments stuff is a nonsense. Does anyone have intimate knowledge of how the average transfer fee is settled? Some appear to wish to have intimate knowledge of the clubs operational cash flow

 

The reality is that most of not all transfer fees will be paid in installments. Clubs in Scotland in particular simply won't have the Financial wherewithal to settle such transactions in full at the outset.

 

There is some real puffed out chest pish spouted on here. Whether we like it or not, Hearts are going to have to work with Rangers to get a deal agreed here for a guy desperate to leave this club.

 

Getting worked up about how the transfer fee is actually physically paid borders on hysteria

Of course payment terms and conditions are important to anyone who understands the time value of money. We don't know what these are and how they're structured in this case aside from a couple of vague allusions from Orc sympathisers in the media.

 

If a large chunk of the deal was dependent on the Orcs getting to the CL group stages or JW getting 10 international caps would it still be reasonable??

 

I totally trust Ann and Craig to do the right thing.

 

PS maybe Jamie's sister can clarify how exactly she's related to Tommy Walker while she's at the clarification game.

[Spencer]

Of course payment terms and conditions are important to anyone who understands the time value of money. We don't know what these are and how they're structured in this case aside from a couple of vague allusions from Orc sympathisers in the media.

 

If a large chunk of the deal was dependent on the Orcs getting to the CL group stages or JW getting 10 international caps would it still be reasonable??

 

I totally trust Ann and Craig to do the right thing.

 

PS maybe Jamie's sister can clarify how exactly she's related to Tommy Walker while she's at the clarification game.

I'm not in possession of details relating to Rangers operational cash flow situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, this is not about valuations being met any longer. This is a disaffected player with a disgraceful attitude desperate to play for a particular club. We're not in a situation where we can look to robustly negotiate as it would appear that any other club who might have been interested will know they'd be wasting their time.

 

This is less about the club taking a stand against Rangers seeking to get a player on the "cheap" and more about getting money for a player who is desperate to sign for Rangers and will be as good as a man short between now and January.

 

Doing the "right thing" on the part of AB and CL isn't rebuffing interest from Rangers because it might make some blow hards feel staunchly proud of their apparent resolve, it's about getting this individual out of the club today and hopefully allowing the club to negotiate with players who actually want to play for us.

 

Imo this is less about a precedence being set in negotiating with Rangers and much more about the moral composition of this particular individual

[Glamorgan Jambo]

I'm not in possession of details relating to Rangers operational cash flow situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, this is not about valuations being met any longer. This is a disaffected player with a disgraceful attitude desperate to play for a particular club. We're not in a situation where we can look to robustly negotiate as it would appear that any other club who might have been interested will know they'd be wasting their time.

 

This is less about the club taking a stand against Rangers seeking to get a player on the "cheap" and more about getting money for a player who is desperate to sign for Rangers and will be as good as a man short between now and January.

 

Doing the "right thing" on the part of AB and CL isn't rebuffing interest from Rangers because it might make some blow hards feel staunchly proud of their apparent resolve, it's about getting this individual out of the club today and hopefully allowing the club to negotiate with players who actually want to play for us.

 

Imo this is less about a precedence being set in negotiating with Rangers and much more about the moral composition of this particular individual

Neither am I in possession of any details of RFC's cash flow. What is in the public domain though is their signings over the summer, their dependence on loans, their inability to raise equity due to the Takeover Panel, and their early elimination from Europe.

 

Walker isn't a conniving type of person, he's someone who is easily led and not that bright. If he's still with us this time tomorrow his decision will be what's in his own best interests for the rest of the season. If he comes to the conclusion he should continue to be half hearted, disinterested, and disrespectful he'll need to come up with a plan for a career out of football sooner than he anticipated. Because nobody wants someone like that on their payroll.

[Spencer]

Neither am I in possession of any details of RFC's cash flow. What is in the public domain though is their signings over the summer, their dependence on loans, their inability to raise equity due to the Takeover Panel, and their early elimination from Europe.

 

Walker isn't a conniving type of person, he's someone who is easily led and not that bright. If he's still with us this time tomorrow his decision will be what's in his own best interests for the rest of the season. If he comes to the conclusion he should continue to be half hearted, disinterested, and disrespectful he'll need to come up with a plan for a career out of football sooner than he anticipated. Because nobody wants someone like that on their payroll.

You're right. If he is still here it could be that his attitude in the months ahead cause Rangers to change their mind on signing him in January or beyond.

 

All things considered, I'd take c. ?600k or whatever they've offered now and try and improve our squad.

 

Walker isn't the future for us and we'd be best serving focusing on players that can improve on what's been an absolutely dire last 18 months. One in which JW has featured regularly

[colinmaroon]

I'm not in possession of details relating to Rangers operational cash flow situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, this is not about valuations being met any longer. This is a disaffected player with a disgraceful attitude desperate to play for a particular club. We're not in a situation where we can look to robustly negotiate as it would appear that any other club who might have been interested will know they'd be wasting their time.

 

This is less about the club taking a stand against Rangers seeking to get a player on the "cheap" and more about getting money for a player who is desperate to sign for Rangers and will be as good as a man short between now and January.

 

Doing the "right thing" on the part of AB and CL isn't rebuffing interest from Rangers because it might make some blow hards feel staunchly proud of their apparent resolve, it's about getting this individual out of the club today and hopefully allowing the club to negotiate with players who actually want to play for us.

 

Imo this is less about a precedence being set in negotiating with Rangers and much more about the moral composition of this particular individual

 

 

The strong indication from those in the press who supposedly know about the Sevco bids is that, of the ?600k apparently bid, about half was add ons.

 

That means ?300k up front and possibly add ons related to games played etc.  That leaves us as a hostage to fortune and, effectively, with only around ?300k to use ourselves.

 

Notwithstanding Walker's attitude, that is a pathetic deal.

[Independence]

The strong indication from those in the press who supposedly know about the Sevco bids is that, of the ?600k apparently bid, about half was add ons.

 

That means ?300k up front and possibly add ons related to games played etc.  That leaves us as a hostage to fortune and, effectively, with only around ?300k to use ourselves.

 

Notwithstanding Walker's attitude, that is a pathetic deal.

If so no danger...play him in the reserves till he joins the bigots.

[Boris]

If so no danger...play him in the reserves till he joins the bigots.

 

I wouldn't even play him in the reserves.  He doesn't want to play for us, so no game time whatsoever.

[Spencer]

The strong indication from those in the press who supposedly know about the Sevco bids is that, of the ?600k apparently bid, about half was add ons.

 

That means ?300k up front and possibly add ons related to games played etc. That leaves us as a hostage to fortune and, effectively, with only around ?300k to use ourselves.

 

Notwithstanding Walker's attitude, that is a pathetic deal.

If it's the only deal I'm afraid you need to view it somewhat differently. We're dealing with someone who has downed tools - made unavailable for selection. That's simply atrocious

 

Get rid of him and move on. We've witnessed enough turgid pish over the last 18 months. Jamie Walker has some talent but his evident fitness issues and lack of pace mean he's not what we need never mind the attitude aspect

[Deevers]

The strong indication from those in the press who supposedly know about the Sevco bids is that, of the ?600k apparently bid, about half was add ons.

 

That means ?300k up front and possibly add ons related to games played etc.  That leaves us as a hostage to fortune and, effectively, with only around ?300k to use ourselves.

 

Notwithstanding Walker's attitude, that is a pathetic deal.

Exactly. Add to that the way we were treated by Oldco when we were due transfer money from them in our hour of need. We should cut absolutely no cut price deals with the Zombie reincarnation. Meet our price with money up front or clear off.

[Spencer]

I wouldn't even play him in the reserves. He doesn't want to play for us, so no game time whatsoever.

Therefore take the cash and move on. He's determined that's his only destination so it's a rather unique situation rather than a precedent being set for negotiations with Rangers

 

It's got to the stage where the average Hearts fan doesn't want to see him play for us again

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

The Walker family doing Jamie no favours it seems throughout this transfer window. He really should have a word with them.

[Mac80]

The Walker family doing Jamie no favours it seems throughout this transfer window. He really should have a word with them.

 

 

Tad embarrassing for him

[The Treasurer]

This instalments stuff is a nonsense. Does anyone have intimate knowledge of how the average transfer fee is settled? Some appear to wish to have intimate knowledge of the clubs operational cash flow

 

The reality is that most of not all transfer fees will be paid in installments. Clubs in Scotland in particular simply won't have the Financial wherewithal to settle such transactions in full at the outset.

 

There is some real puffed out chest pish spouted on here. Whether we like it or not, Hearts are going to have to work with Rangers to get a deal agreed here for a guy desperate to leave this club.

 

Getting worked up about how the transfer fee is actually physically paid borders on hysteria

Why the feck should we "work with sevco" to get a deal that suits them ??

You can dress it up any way you like but us receiving anything less than the ?1m valuation is more in their favour than ours.

The reason people are saying cash up front from that shower is because of the last time we had transfer dealings with them on "easy payment terms" (Wallace).

As soon as we were in financial difficulties, they could wait to shaft us by making an offer to pay a fraction of the monies due up front

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

This instalments stuff is a nonsense. Does anyone have intimate knowledge of how the average transfer fee is settled? Some appear to wish to have intimate knowledge of the clubs operational cash flow

The reality is that most of not all transfer fees will be paid in installments. Clubs in Scotland in particular simply won't have the Financial wherewithal to settle such transactions in full at the outset.

There is some real puffed out chest pish spouted on here. Whether we like it or not, Hearts are going to have to work with Rangers to get a deal agreed here for a guy desperate to leave this club.

Getting worked up about how the transfer fee is actually physically paid borders on hysteria

I think you are doing us all an injustice when you suggest we don't have 'intimate knowledge' of how the average transfer fee is settled, especially as you have phrased it in a way that suggests you do.

 

Most people are well aware that even the biggest clubs don't often settle in full right away, but only the most foolish or desperate of selling clubs would settle for an instalment deal when the sum offered only matches 40% of their own valuation, with the instalments are spread out over two seasons, reducing what would have been a sizeable sum, to an annual figure less than Hearts will receive this season for Celtic's CL progress! Perhaps Hearts might have been more ready to accept a direct rival's instament plan if this CL windfall hadn't materialised, how fitting might that be?

 

 

This becomes more pertinent when the proposed deal is with a direct rival that is strengthening its squad while weakening their own rival at the same time at relatively little cost for the coming season. Perhaps you could use your own 'intimate knowledge' and give us examples of clubs accepting an offer for a player they don't want to sell, some 40% below their own valuation, paid over three annual instalments, from a direct rival for league position prize money, European football and cup success?

 

I have no 'intimate knowledge' of how football clubs settle player purchases, never having been involved in the process - which is the only way to gain an 'intimate' knowledge - but common sense tells me that for an instalment deal to be acceptable to the selling club, there has to be some advantage to that club, such as, a) getting rid of a player they don't want, getting a sum matching, or close to, their own valuation, c) it facilitates not transferring him to a rival club they will be in competition with for potential earnings higher than, or close to, the annual instalments over the next two seasons, d) receiving the transfer fee over two years aids the club's budgeting for the period, e) some other circumstance I've missed.

 

Of course, TRFC have used their special relationship with the media, and apparent contact with the player, to undermine Hearts relationship with Walker, so it may well be that Hearts end up accepting the offer for a player they feel is no longer of value to them - but that's a matter outwith football's premise of clubs acting in 'upmost good faith'!

[Deevers]

Why the feck should we "work with sevco" to get a deal that suits them ??

You can dress it up any way you like but us receiving anything less than the ?1m valuation is more in their favour than ours.

The reason people are saying cash up front from that shower is because of the last time we had transfer dealings with them on "easy payment terms" (Wallace).

As soon as we were in financial difficulties, they could wait to shaft us by making an offer to pay a fraction of the monies due up front

Exactly - some folk on here have short memories - or mixed loyalties.

[JJ1984]

There is still no offer on the table for Jamie as of this morning and the ball is in our court as to lower valuation or not.

[Jamhammer]

I wouldn't even play him in the reserves.  He doesn't want to play for us, so no game time whatsoever.

I agree. Why keep him fit for another team? Also what message does it give to the players in that team? Playing in this team is a punishment. If we aint selling him, which we should then **** him.

[Taffin]

I wouldn't even play him in the reserves. He doesn't want to play for us, so no game time whatsoever.

This.

 

If he decides to leave for free he doesn't play at all imo. It is bad enough Rangers taking a player from us for free, let's not make it a fit and sharp player.

[robbo1874]

It's a barsteward but we need the money unfortunately.

So we're not in the position to play hardball.

Would loved to have let him sit in the reserves but get him out asap and get whatever we can

Move on with new signings.

He can take what he gets whenever he returns to Tynie warming their bench

[doctor jambo]

HOnestly now Jamie needs to have a serious think

He is now facing a year in the wasteland

After that , rangers will offer him massively lower wages and no signing on fee- as there will be literally nowhere else for him to play.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Why would we lower our evaluation. Tell you what if he dicks about last day of training he should get Le Juged

[andyscott82]

There is still no offer on the table for Jamie as of this morning and the ball is in our court as to lower valuation or not.

No, the ball is still in rangers' court as to whether they raise their offer to meet our valuation.

[Riddley Walker]

Anything moving forward with this? The other thread seems pretty active and I, em, can't get on for some reason.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

They don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the box, that's for sure.

 

As I've said before I lived close to Tommy Walker and his wife in Corstorphine back in the day and behaviour such as this would be utterly alien to them.

 

I'm interested again to know exactly how Jamie Walker is related to TW, hopefully it wasn't just all made up because it was convenient at the time.

[Rab87]

What is his sister saying?

 

Can't get on twitter at the minute..

[Bazzas right boot]

You're right. If he is still here it could be that his attitude in the months ahead cause Rangers to change their mind on signing him in January or beyond.

 

All things considered, I'd take c. ?600k or whatever they've offered now and try and improve our squad.

 

Walker isn't the future for us and we'd be best serving focusing on players that can improve on what's been an absolutely dire last 18 months. One in which JW has featured regularly

It's not been a dire 18 month's. We weren't out the top 3/4 up until Cathro.

 

As for Jamie before Xmas , Cathro and his injury he had something like 10/11 goals and was playing well for us.

 

It's been a dire" 8/ 9 months. Why you need to exaggerate is beyond me, any point you had gets lost amongst it.

 

I agree with you reference the last point as the walker of a year ago looks gone, for us anyway.

[William H. Bonney]

As I've said before I lived close to Tommy Walker and his wife in Corstorphine back in the day and behaviour such as this would be utterly alien to them.

 

I'm interested again to know exactly how Jamie Walker is related to TW, hopefully it wasn't just all made up because it was convenient at the time.

Tommy was Jamie's great uncle.

[N Lincs Jambo]

Still amazed that posters on here think it's a good idea just to take whatever pittance der Hun offers us for Walker. If we roll over on this one then all and sundry will know that any of our young players will be fair game for the same treatment should the huns sniff about in the future. We have to stand firm unless they meet our valuation and acceptable payment terms.

 

As for Walker, assuming he stays then if he sorts out his attitude he can still be a major player for us this season. If not, as others have said, why keep him fit so another team can benefit next season?

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Tommy was Jamie's great uncle.

 

I get that they've said that. I'm not sure I believe it though so would like a bit more detail i.e. which relative of JW TW was a sibling of.

 

The Walker family that I knew would never have behaved like Jamie, his dad and his sister.

[Pans Jambo]

I wouldn't even play him in the reserves.  He doesn't want to play for us, so no game time whatsoever.

This.

 

Although. I think Hearts are on the cusp of something really good.

 

I am very hopeful that the ship steadies and JW does in fact WANT to be part of Hearts and he signs a 12 months extension with a release clause thus committing himself to Hearts AND earning himself a bit more dosh over the next year.

 

If he's smart he would and it would show good faith on his part.

[William H. Bonney]

I get that they've said that. I'm not sure I believe it though so would like a bit more detail i.e. which relative of JW TW was a sibling of.

 

The Walker family that I knew would never have behaved like Jamie, his dad and his sister.

Apologies.

[Spencer]

It's not been a dire 18 month's. We weren't out the top 3/4 up until Cathro.

 

As for Jamie before Xmas , Cathro and his injury he had something like 10/11 goals and was playing well for us.

 

It's been a dire" 8/ 9 months. Why you need to exaggerate is beyond me, any point you had gets lost amongst it.

 

I agree with you reference the last point as the walker of a year ago looks gone, for us anyway.

I completely disagree. The decline had well and truly started pre Cathro. Hearts have been going in the wrong direction since the start of 2016

 

I'm absolutely astounded that you seek to hold Cathro solely accountable. That's far too simplistic and frankly a distorted representation of what we've witnessed in that period

[Hagar the Horrible]

We cannot allow the Zombies to strengthen on a budget at our expence?  If they want him then all the money up front, not a repayment plan, unless there is wonga rates.  We got bitten over the wallace deal. Eat into their cash flow and it keeps them skint for years,  let they pay it up and they buy time to rebuild. 

 

Not our problem that they are a basket case living beyond their means. 

 

Long term keeping Walker and letting go for free at the end of the season will be a better deal than the one Rangers would offer, we get him for a season, rather than being drip fed peanuts, and without a decent lump sum, we dont get to replace him.......Thats their MO it has always been.   A NO Deal is better than a Bad Deal every time!!!!!

[davieholt]

Be interesting to see what, in reality, we would actually accept....even then it may be announced as 'undisclosed'.

 

Soon find out.

 

It may be announced as 'undisclosed' but the forensic accounts analysers on this board will be able to estimate fairly accurately how much was received up front when the next set is issued.

[JJ1984]

I completely disagree. The decline had well and truly started pre Cathro. Hearts have been going in the wrong direction since the start of 2016

 

I'm absolutely astounded that you seek to hold Cathro solely accountable. That's far too simplistic and frankly a distorted representation of what we've witnessed in that period

Bear in mind, Tosh backed Cathro right until the very end now it's all his fault. We started the 2015/16 season very well having lost a few when the league was wrapped up. After Xmas 2015 something went wrong. Neilson done his best with what he had, second when he left though Aberdeen and Rangers had games in hand. The revisionism on here at times is staggering.

[Taffin]

This.

 

Although. I think Hearts are on the cusp of something really good.

 

I am very hopeful that the ship steadies and JW does in fact WANT to be part of Hearts and he signs a 12 months extension with a release clause thus committing himself to Hearts AND earning himself a bit more dosh over the next year.

 

If he's smart he would and it would show good faith on his part.

I think that ship has sailed for him in all honesty

[3fingersreid]

.

[Haken]

There?s so much revisionism going on regarding this saga.  First thing, do we believe Walker is not a very good player, or do we believe that he is a very good player who has downed tools, having had his head turned by Rangers?  My opinion is the latter, which in my mind means that Jamie Walker is still the very good player we believed him to be around nine months ago.  If that is the player Rangers want to sign and get, he will strengthen Rangers.

 

If we sell to Rangers now ? with some posters revising their ?what I would take? statements downwards the closer we get to the deadline ? all we are doing is saying to Rangers that their methodology in this matter has worked a treat.  Do we really want to do that?

 

The reports ? whatever they are worth ? is that Rangers are offering instalments and putting conditions to subsequent payments.  If we only get something like ?200k up front, then effectively we?re selling him for ?200k here and now ? we can?t do anything with the money we?ll be due further down the line, unless we want to borrow on the strength of whatever agreement is reached.  Remember, this is Rangers we?re talking about.

 

So where I?m at is that Rangers should cough up upwards of ?750k with the money transferred to our account in full or be told to bolt.  If walker then continues to put in apathetic performances, he will be dropped.  The bigger issue here is not getting a few quid now, but the wider impact it would have going forward.

[davieholt]

There?s so much revisionism going on regarding this saga.  First thing, do we believe Walker is not a very good player, or do we believe that he is a very good player who has downed tools, having had his head turned by Rangers?  My opinion is the latter, which in my mind means that Jamie Walker is still the very good player we believed him to be around nine months ago.  If that is the player Rangers want to sign and get, he will strengthen Rangers.

 

If we sell to Rangers now ? with some posters revising their ?what I would take? statements downwards the closer we get to the deadline ? all we are doing is saying to Rangers that their methodology in this matter has worked a treat.  Do we really want to do that?

 

The reports ? whatever they are worth ? is that Rangers are offering instalments and putting conditions to subsequent payments.  If we only get something like ?200k up front, then effectively we?re selling him for ?200k here and now ? we can?t do anything with the money we?ll be due further down the line, unless we want to borrow on the strength of whatever agreement is reached.  Remember, this is Rangers we?re talking about.

 

So where I?m at is that Rangers should cough up upwards of ?750k with the money transferred to our account in full or be told to bolt.  If walker then continues to put in apathetic performances, he will be dropped.  The bigger issue here is not getting a few quid now, but the wider impact it would have going forward.

 

 

Agree entirely with one proviso. I think that Jamie was an excellent player prior to his injury. Since then he has put in a couple of good performances - but then so have a lot of mediocre players. Like Sam, he became a 'one in 5' good games and is, IMO, a luxury. If he joins Sevco he'll be found out in fairly short order and join the list of Hearts players who went west and then disappeared.

[superjack]

.

[Spencer]

Bear in mind, Tosh backed Cathro right until the very end now it's all his fault. We started the 2015/16 season very well having lost a few when the league was wrapped up. After Xmas 2015 something went wrong. Neilson done his best with what he had, second when he left though Aberdeen and Rangers had games in hand. The revisionism on here at times is staggering.

Tosh is all over the place here.

 

I stand by what I posted earlier. We've been in alarming decline since beginning of 2016

[Romulus]

Lets please just sell him and move on. We need players that want to play for this jersey, not stop gap players or guys that want to leave. I do not wish him well at rangers at all.

[Jammy T]

This is where I do miss Romanov telling them in no uncertain terms , to their face and in the press ,to pay the asking price or **** off.

That's exactly what we've done til now

 

It's why he's still here

 

Weird comment

[Pans Jambo]

I think that ship has sailed for him in all honesty

Perhaps but it should be put to him (politely) that if he doesn't sign  an extension then he can rot in the U17's with zero game time.

[Socrates]

Therefore take the cash and move on. He's determined that's his only destination so it's a rather unique situation rather than a precedent being set for negotiations with Rangers

 

It's got to the stage where the average Hearts fan doesn't want to see him play for us again

It's not a unique situation. It's how Rangers do business if they can get away with it. If Walker goes to them for a cut price deal, they'll be back with exactly the same pish whenever we next have someone that they want.

[theshed]

He's a good player on his day but thinks he's way better than he is

 

Mark my words he will go the same way as lots of other players that join rangers or Celtic.

Will play a few games then drop to the bench before leaving 12-18 months later

[Randy Marsh]

Tosh is all over the place here.

 

I stand by what I posted earlier. We've been in alarming decline since beginning of 2016

 

Agreed.  After we beat Motherwell 6-0 we have been dire.

[jbee647]

Rangers looking to complete a loan move for Ross McCormack from AV

either Rangers bluffing or nae luck Jamie boy