General Election

[Cruyff Turn]

Nope - never said that - I said Independence was guaranteed to cost billions and a full-scale recession with jobs in major service industries moving over the border.

 

The outcome of Brexit isn't clear, but I'm optimistic on a free trade deal outcome.

So you don't agree with the Fraser Allander Institute of Economic & Fiscal Studies when they say that Brexit will cost Scotland 5% of its GDP (11.5bn) per year and 80,000 jobs?

 

Clearly Brexit is far more damaging to Scotland than Independence.

 

Do you acknowledge or support the Scottish Claim of Right?

[Doogz]

So you don't agree with the Fraser Allander Institute of Economic & Fiscal Studies when they say that Brexit will cost Scotland 5% of its GDP (11.5bn) per year and 80,000 jobs?

 

Clearly Brexit is far more damaging to Scotland than Independence.

 

Do you acknowledge or support the Scottish Claim of Right?

Your figures only show that Brexit is bad for the Scottish economy - they don't say anything about the impact of independence on a post Brexit Scotland.

[Cruyff Turn]

Your figures only show that Brexit is bad for the Scottish economy - they don't say anything about the impact of independence on a post Brexit Scotland.

Not my figures.

 

As to my knowledge there isn't and hasn't been a study by any such Institute into it.

 

 

So you agree with the Fraser Allander Institute that Brexit is an absolute catastrophe for Scotland?

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Not my figures.

 

As to my knowledge there isn't and hasn't been a study by any such Institute into it.

 

 

So you agree with the Fraser Allander Institute that Brexit is an absolute catastrophe for Scotland?

 

Yes, it's like a desert out there.

[Sraman]

.

Well done your inability to understand what I wrote : i.e. I'm open to the idea of independence but want to be convinced as to how it will lead to improvements and how this will be implemented - is only matched by your ineptitude in providing any argument - never mind a compelling one- in favour of this. If you can't back up your position without resorting to deliberately misinterpreting posts then perhaps you need to spend some time thinking about why you're in favour of independence.

 

 

This is the general election thread. I have stated this several times. Independence is not on the agenda due to the simple fact that Scotland cannot gain independence through the SNP winning any amount of Scottish seats at a Westminster election. We are currently "better together" and this election is to see who will govern the UK as a whole for the next four years and keep the UK "better together" through the brexit process. 

 

The brexit process, is exactly what this general election is about. Who should do the deal with the EU, hardball Conservatives or softly softly Labour? They are the only two parties large enough, according to polls, to take Westminster.

 

Me, I don't trust Labour to beat the Tories, even though they are trying hard to lose it, so will continue to vote SNP as I think they do a decent job at Westminster and if Labour got close and needed the forty odd predicted SNP seats, a handful of Plaid Cymru Seats, a couple of Lib Dems, the odd Green and even, say it quietly, Sin Feinn seats to form a Government would they be brave enough to go for it and form a Government that has representation from all the Countries to take us through brexit? Surely this would be best for the United Kingdom as opposed to the Tories bumbling along robbing us blind to pay the banks back our money that they lost, giving large corporations free reign and insulting Europe and Europeans? Anyway, that's my dream scenario and if it came off it would be the closest we have ever been to a United Kingdom.

 

Whatever you vote for is up to you, I'm not and have never been here to change your mind about independence, especially on a thread about a general election that is probably one of The most important general elections of our lives given the forthcoming and oft mentioned brexit.

[Doogz]

So you agree with the Fraser Allander Institute that Brexit is an absolute catastrophe for Scotland?

Absolute catastrophe is perhaps stretching it but I agree its not going to have anything but a negative impact in the short to medium term in Scotland & the whole Uk - I pretty much said exactly that in my posts earlier - but I'm yet to see any evidence to suggest independence would reverse the negative impact, in fact if anything it would only seem to compound the negative impact.

[Cruyff Turn]

Absolute catastrophe is perhaps stretching it but I agree its not going to have anything but a negative impact in the short to medium term in Scotland & the whole Uk - I pretty much said exactly that in my posts earlier - but I'm yet to see any evidence to suggest independence would reverse the negative impact, in fact if anything it would only seem to compound the negative impact.

Why should Scotland leave the EU?

 

We never voted for it.

[Doogz]

Why should Scotland leave the EU?

 

We never voted for it.

Scotland has never been a member of the EU.

Scotland only had membership as part of the UK and chose to remain part of the UK in the last independence referendum. Had Scotland chosen to leave the UK in that referendum Scotland would no longer have been part of the EU.

The UK which Scotland chose to remain a part of chose to leave the EU in the Brexit referendum.

 

These are facts - not even worth debating. I'm not happy about them - but they are facts. Feel free to argue with any of them but you can't change any of them. The only thing up for discussion in relation to any of this is how big an impact will Brexit have on Scotland & the whole UK and similarly what further impact would Scottish independence have - I see no compelling evidence that independence will have a positive impact ( for the reasons I expressed in my earlier post regarding the financial services industry in Scotland). If you have an alternative position please state it - I'm happy to read analyse different opinions on this - but asking why should Scotland leave the EU when the reasons are abundantly clear is little more than spin and not worth spending time discussing.

[Cruyff Turn]

Scotland has never been a member of the EU.

Scotland only had membership as part of the UK and chose to remain part of the UK in the last independence referendum. Had Scotland chosen to leave the UK in that referendum Scotland would no longer have been part of the EU.

The UK which Scotland chose to remain a part of chose to leave the EU in the Brexit referendum.

 

These are facts - not even worth debating. I'm not happy about them - but they are facts. Feel free to argue with any of them but you can't change any of them. The only thing up for discussion in relation to any of this is how big an impact will Brexit have on Scotland & the whole UK and similarly what further impact would Scottish independence have - I see no compelling evidence that independence will have a positive impact ( for the reasons I expressed in my earlier post regarding the financial services industry in Scotland). If you have an alternative position please state it - I'm happy to read analyse different opinions on this - but asking why should Scotland leave the EU when the reasons are abundantly clear is little more than spin and not worth spending time discussing.

Oh but it is whether you like it or not.

 

The Scottish people are sovereign. Not God, not the Monarch, not Parliament. This has been defined within every single act in the history of this Country.

 

You're right. The Scottish People decided to stay part of the Union.

 

They also decided to stay part of Europe.

 

Clearly the people of Scotland want to be within a Union with the rest of the UK but part of the EU. That is what should happen. We should be given full autonomy and allowed to stay part of the EU.

 

 

The rest of the UK does not decide for Scotland, and as a Scot whether you are for Brexit or against, a Unionist or a Nationalist you should not argue against the fundamental principle which has existed as long as your own Country has.

 

If you are a Unionist then you are probably from a Presbyterian background. Fair to say, yeah? I'm not saying you are a believer but most of us are from that background.

 

The reason the Union exists is because Scots deposed their King as the people are Sovereign not the Monarch and God only. The Church of Scotland supports this view hence why it signed the Scottish Claim of Right. Trade Unions support this view as it is the basic principle of a person's rights. Scottish Unionist politicians even support this view.

 

Are you as a Scot, and others as apparent Scots, literally arguing against your own peoples rights and then have the cheek to get offended when you are described as a turncoat?

 

Here's a question.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot and the people of Scotland had sealed the vote for Leave in the EU Referendum and the majority of English people voted to stay in the EU would it have been passed?

 

The answer is no. The majority of English MP's would have voted against it. You know they would have because they ****ing hate us.

 

And of course you Scottish Unionists would have supported the views of English MP's for some warped reason.

 

I've never found a Unionist yet that will clearly set out their principles, as a Scot, as to why they wish to let English MP's control Scotland.

[Rudy T]

Why should Scotland leave the EU?

 

We never voted for it.

Yes we did. Scotland didn't have its own vote. Why are we having indyref2 when we didn't vote for independence less than 3 years ago. You can't have it both ways.

[Cruyff Turn]

Yes we did. Scotland didn't have its own vote. Why are we having indyref2 when we didn't vote for independence less than 3 years ago. You can't have it both ways.

Very simplistic view.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Very simplistic view.

Only if you're the loser.

[Rudy T]

Very simplistic view.

Here's a question for you. If they reversed Brexit would the SNP withdraw their request for indyref2?

[Cruyff Turn]

Here's a question for you. If they reversed Brexit would the SNP withdraw their request for indyref2?

Yes they should. Absolutely. 100%.

 

Because as I've explained, the people of Scotland are Sovereign and they voted against it last time.

 

That shouldn't mean there should never ever be one though.

 

If the SNP or any other Party define an election on the premise that "if we are the majority we will have a Referendum on Indy", then fair enough, accept it and vote for or against in one.

 

I think the SNPs arguments for having a Referendum were wrong but I think Scotland has been put in a completely ridiculous position where the people in this Country voted to stay in the EU, a majority voted MP's the WM who rejected having one when the bill was introduced in the first place.

 

We are suffering as a result of a game of Soldiers between the former UK PM and Tory backbenchers who forced him to put it into his manifesto or there would have been a coup.

[Bowmans_Boot]

This is the general election thread. I have stated this several times. Independence is not on the agenda due to the simple fact that Scotland cannot gain independence through the SNP winning any amount of Scottish seats at a Westminster election. We are currently "better together" and this election is to see who will govern the UK as a whole for the next four years and keep the UK "better together" through the brexit process.

 

The brexit process, is exactly what this general election is about. Who should do the deal with the EU, hardball Conservatives or softly softly Labour? They are the only two parties large enough, according to polls, to take Westminster.

 

Me, I don't trust Labour to beat the Tories, even though they are trying hard to lose it, so will continue to vote SNP as I think they do a decent job at Westminster and if Labour got close and needed the forty odd predicted SNP seats, a handful of Plaid Cymru Seats, a couple of Lib Dems, the odd Green and even, say it quietly, Sin Feinn seats to form a Government would they be brave enough to go for it and form a Government that has representation from all the Countries to take us through brexit? Surely this would be best for the United Kingdom as opposed to the Tories bumbling along robbing us blind to pay the banks back our money that they lost, giving large corporations free reign and insulting Europe and Europeans? Anyway, that's my dream scenario and if it came off it would be the closest we have ever been to a United Kingdom.

 

Whatever you vote for is up to you, I'm not and have never been here to change your mind about independence, especially on a thread about a general election that is probably one of The most important general elections of our lives given the forthcoming and oft mentioned brexit.

Good post.

 

The tories have done very well in trying to make the GE in Scotland an independence vote because they have the sum total of absolutely nothing to offer Scotland. Quite simply, it is not.

[Doogz]

Oh but it is whether you like it or not.

 

The Scottish people are sovereign. Not God, not the Monarch, not Parliament. This has been defined within every single act in the history of this Country.

 

You're right. The Scottish People decided to stay part of the Union.

 

They also decided to stay part of Europe.

 

Clearly the people of Scotland want to be within a Union with the rest of the UK but part of the EU. That is what should happen. We should be given full autonomy and allowed to stay part of the EU.

 

 

The rest of the UK does not decide for Scotland, and as a Scot whether you are for Brexit or against, a Unionist or a Nationalist you should not argue against the fundamental principle which has existed as long as your own Country has.

 

If you are a Unionist then you are probably from a Presbyterian background. Fair to say, yeah? I'm not saying you are a believer but most of us are from that background.

 

The reason the Union exists is because Scots deposed their King as the people are Sovereign not the Monarch and God only. The Church of Scotland supports this view hence why it signed the Scottish Claim of Right. Trade Unions support this view as it is the basic principle of a person's rights. Scottish Unionist politicians even support this view.

 

Are you as a Scot, and others as apparent Scots, literally arguing against your own peoples rights and then have the cheek to get offended when you are described as a turncoat?

 

Here's a question.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot and the people of Scotland had sealed the vote for Leave in the EU Referendum and the majority of English people voted to stay in the EU would it have been passed?

 

The answer is no. The majority of English MP's would have voted against it. You know they would have because they ******* hate us.

 

And of course you Scottish Unionists would have supported the views of English MP's for some warped reason.

 

I've never found a Unionist yet that will clearly set out their principles, as a Scot, as to why they wish to let English MP's control Scotland.

Well that is quite a post - it completely ignores the facts around Scotlands "membership" of the EU and fails to address my question but makes for interesting if rather sad reading in places:

 

Why are you bringing religion into this ? The biggest religion in Scotland is still the Church of Scotland. Statistically, I'd expect most Unionist & Nationalist votes would come from this background but maybe I was just lucky and missed Sunday School the week they taught us how we should vote (to be fair it has little to do with luck as I never attended).

 

"English MPs ...****ing hate us", "apparent Scots", "turncoats". I think it's clear from the language of your post that you see everything in black & white; It's all Scotland V England - and if you dont back independence then you're a traitor. You can call me names for it all you want but Id still rather discuss the details of the economic implications of indy rather than worry about someone's religious background or nationality. If the economics don't add up then we won't be able to pay to fund, nevermind make improvements to NHS, education etc. :

Why proceed if it makes these things worse in Scotland ? Why repeat the mistakes of Brexit ?

[Bowmans_Boot]

Id still rather discuss the details of the economic implications of indy rather than worry about someone's religious background or nationality. If the economics don't add up then we won't be able to pay to fund, nevermind make improvements to NHS, education etc. :

Why proceed if it makes these things worse in Scotland ? Why repeat the mistakes of Brexit ?

I totally agree with this post. However, this is a debate to be had prior to any future referendum, not this GE.

[JamboX2]

Oh but it is whether you like it or not.

 

The Scottish people are sovereign. Not God, not the Monarch, not Parliament. This has been defined within every single act in the history of this Country.

 

You're right. The Scottish People decided to stay part of the Union.

 

They also decided to stay part of Europe.

 

Clearly the people of Scotland want to be within a Union with the rest of the UK but part of the EU. That is what should happen. We should be given full autonomy and allowed to stay part of the EU.

 

 

The rest of the UK does not decide for Scotland, and as a Scot whether you are for Brexit or against, a Unionist or a Nationalist you should not argue against the fundamental principle which has existed as long as your own Country has.

 

If you are a Unionist then you are probably from a Presbyterian background. Fair to say, yeah? I'm not saying you are a believer but most of us are from that background.

 

The reason the Union exists is because Scots deposed their King as the people are Sovereign not the Monarch and God only. The Church of Scotland supports this view hence why it signed the Scottish Claim of Right. Trade Unions support this view as it is the basic principle of a person's rights. Scottish Unionist politicians even support this view.

 

Are you as a Scot, and others as apparent Scots, literally arguing against your own peoples rights and then have the cheek to get offended when you are described as a turncoat?

 

Here's a question.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot and the people of Scotland had sealed the vote for Leave in the EU Referendum and the majority of English people voted to stay in the EU would it have been passed?

 

The answer is no. The majority of English MP's would have voted against it. You know they would have because they ******* hate us.

 

And of course you Scottish Unionists would have supported the views of English MP's for some warped reason.

 

I've never found a Unionist yet that will clearly set out their principles, as a Scot, as to why they wish to let English MP's control Scotland.

Because I don't just define myself as a Scot but also as British, a Jambo, a Lowlander, a Socialist and a European. Oh and an Edinburgher. In effect my views on my identity don't help me separate things into neat little boxes - those identities all merge into one (me) and from that I feel a sense of equality and solidarity with people in Liverpool, Leeds, London, Bristol, Cardiff etc, but also Berlin, Barcelona and Riga etc.

 

From that I view the union as a natural extension if that and the EU as a further expression of those bonds. Much as i view Scottishness as something which binds me to folk from Inverness, Glasgow and Stornoway in terms of an identity.

 

Politically I don't share many views with people by way of identity. In effect I may share more in common with a Munich based social democrat than an Aberdeenshire based Tory. So again, I don't view it as my destiny or my nations destiny being controlled by another nation or another people but merely by people I do not share a set of political view points with.

 

To reverse this into your narrative, do you agree with everything the German CDU party is in favour of? With Juncker's pro-business views (which are a majority on the European Commission)? Do you share a political persuasion with the majority centre right mainstream of the European Parliament? If not, do you also think that in such circumstances an independent Scotland would have its future and destiny shaped by these people from foreign lands we did not vote for?

 

Personally, I don't. But to me that's the natural extension of your position.

 

And as for Scottish pop-sov... I'm not too sure that stacks up as popular democracy as we get told often by Yes. That's a national myth, like the Jerusalem song or the Pilgrim Fathers or brave Tuetonic Knights. If you class control by landed aristocratic barons who enforced a serfdom and endentured labour system on the common folk for a few centuries before mercantile barons ran the show then I'd agree, but in truth popular sovereignty has only ever derived from the people of Scotland since the final great reform acts of 1918 and 1928.

[Space Mackerel]

You've just got to laugh at Ruth and the utter drivel she speaks. All spoon fed to the Yoons on here.

 

This thread on Twitter sums it all up gloriously!

 

Enjoy.

 

https://twitter.com/mammothwhale/status/868146329398239232

[Doogz]

Any update on the SNP manifesto ? I know the launch was delayed due to what happened in Manchester but I haven't heard anymore since then ( not in Scotland just now so it's entirely possible it's been launched without me noticing )

[Maroon Sailor]

Any update on the SNP manifesto ? I know the launch was delayed due to what happened in Manchester but I haven't heard anymore since then ( not in Scotland just now so it's entirely possible it's been launched without me noticing )

It should be launched full stop

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Any update on the SNP manifesto ? I know the launch was delayed due to what happened in Manchester but I haven't heard anymore since then ( not in Scotland just now so it's entirely possible it's been launched without me noticing )

Still working on the full cut and paste job from every other parties manifesto.

[SwindonJambo]

It could be 100 blank pages and they'd still romp it.

Maybe it IS 100 blank pages!

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Maybe it IS 100 blank pages!

They called that the White Paper.

[JamboX2]

It could be 100 blank pages and they'd still romp it.

Ah the hubris of olde Scotch Labour showing itself. Took them near 40 years to get there... what we on 10?

 

Donkeys in yellow rosettes...

[Space Mackerel]

Just a peep from any Yoon would be nice.

 

Just one peep....

[ToadKiller Dog]

Any update on the SNP manifesto ? I know the launch was delayed due to what happened in Manchester but I haven't heard anymore since then ( not in Scotland just now so it's entirely possible it's been launched without me noticing )

Think it may be Tuesday definitely in Perth .which is sensible as wouldn't make much noise on a bank holiday weekend .

[Doogz]

Think it may be Tuesday definitely in Perth .which is sensible as wouldn't make much noise on a bank holiday weekend .

Thanks - was concerned I'd missed it. Tuesday would certainly make sense.

[reaths17]

Any update on the SNP manifesto ? I know the launch was delayed due to what happened in Manchester but I haven't heard anymore since then ( not in Scotland just now so it's entirely possible it's been launched without me noticing )

the SNP like all the other parties will promise you nirvana and once they have your vote will give you the same shit your already getting

[AlimOzturk]

the SNP like all the other parties will promise you nirvana and once they have your vote will give you the same shit your already getting

I have a different feeling with Corbyn and his labour party.

 

Also, Space Mackerel am I allowed to vote Labour but still support Scottish independence? Since the SNP only have one agenda in mind, the Tories are utterly off the table and Labour have so far provided me with the best Manifesto. Will I still be classed as a yoon?

 

I have come to the conclusion that the SNP are a shit party with only one purpose. They don't realise that they have a country to run.

 

We need a strong Labour party in Scotland. Screw having Tories as the major opposition and screw having SNP getting in without a challenge.

[Space Mackerel]

This is the kind of quality journalism and critical thinking that's been missing so far in the election debate.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/809745/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-election-eharmony

[ToadKiller Dog]

Dugdale talking way to fast on politics Scotland interview .

Basically sounds dddddd a dddddd and Deedeeededumbdada and rest .

What ever sense she may or may not be saying I can't make out .

 

And now chewing on a wasp Tank girl is up .

[JamboX2]

Dugdale talking way to fast on politics Scotland interview .

Basically sounds dddddd a dddddd and Deedeeededumbdada and rest .

What ever sense she may or may not be saying I can't make out .

 

And now chewing on a wasp Tank girl is up .

Very poor start from Dugdale. Very poor.

 

Ended well on more comfortable ground (ie tax policy and public services) but got rattled too easily early on.

[JamboX2]

What is the point of having Dugdale and Davidson on the same program? They spout out the same SNPBad narrative every time.

 

Dugdale really is useless, her little pre-prepared soundbites do nothing but emphasize this.

Because Dugdale offered a left wing narrative of critique to the SNP and Davidson a right wing one. Rennie would, if on, provide a liberal one and Harvie a green one.

 

They are opposition to the SNP. They are there to hold the major party of Scotland to account and are seeking to win seats off them for different reasons (Dugdale: anti-austerity, Davidson low-tax/smaller state).

 

If you take the indy blinkers off they're arguing two different visions to Scotland's political future to the SNPs.

 

It is only right therefore both are heard.

[Space Mackerel]

Very poor start from Dugdale. Very poor.

 

Ended well on more comfortable ground (ie tax policy and public services) but got rattled too easily early on.

This poor start has been going on and on since she took over from Murphy.

[GBJambo]

Drop the anti-austerity rhetoric mate, it's nonsense.

 

If you're offering a critique, as you put it, they should be offering a detailed analysis and assessment rather than just blithely shouting SNPBAD.

You might be the last person in Scotland still defending Dugdale, even her dad has turned to the SNP.

And do the snp offer a detailed analysis and assessment rather than just shout tory bad.

[Sraman]

And do the snp offer a detailed analysis and assessment rather than just shout tory bad.

 

 

The SNP cannot win in a General election. It makes no odds if they win every seat they stand in, they still cannot win. What they can and will do, is provide opposition to whoever does win from a Scottish perspective which, as we've seen, also helps those in a similar position throughout the UK (womens pensions for example) get their issues heard in parliament.

 

So in this election (a General one) they don't really need to provide too detailed a manifesto as they have absolutely zero chance of Governing the UK. The Labour, Tory, Lib Dems and Ukip parties, on the other hand, do have enough candidates standing to Govern so should have more detailed manifestos.

 

As for Tory Bad, that's impossible to deny.

[Sraman]

Ah the hubris of olde Scotch Labour showing itself. Took them near 40 years to get there... what we on 10?

 

Donkeys in yellow rosettes...

 

As opposed to tories in red rosettes.......I'll take the donkeys every time.

[Space Mackerel]

Read a few things now that Amber Rudd is going to take Theresa Mays place in the BBC election debate.

 

Weak and wobbly alright confirmed.

[JamboX2]

Drop the anti-austerity rhetoric mate, it's nonsense.

 

If you're offering a critique, as you put it, they should be offering a detailed analysis and assessment rather than just blithely shouting SNPBAD.

You might be the last person in Scotland still defending Dugdale, even her dad has turned to the SNP.

That's a pretty dull and predictable response.

 

Do you believe in Scottish democratic life it is alllowed for opposition parties to campaign against one another with different visions of how we are governed?

 

Dugdale offered a clear example when interviewed; her basic rate tax rise to raise ?690m to cover the cost of stopping planned cuts to local government spending.

 

Instead we've seen a cut in those funds from an SNP-Green budget.

 

That's a political choice.

 

Is that difference allowed to be expressed? Is that SNPBad or arguing a different route?

 

All I've heard from Sturgeon is ToryBad and May CorbynEvil. So what's your point here? Where's your vision? Or is it just blind hatred of folk who don't side with you on independence?

[JamboX2]

As opposed to tories in red rosettes.......I'll take the donkeys every time.

Thanks for proving my point - but was actually making a mockery of the move from Red Rosette Monkeys to Yellow Donkeys.

 

It's just daft replacing one dominant party with another.

[Space Mackerel]

Thanks for proving my point - but was actually making a mockery of the move from Red Rosette Monkeys to Yellow Donkeys.

 

It's just daft replacing one dominant party with another.

Were you complaining when SLAB were in said position over 10 years ago?

[Maroon Sailor]

Sturgeon's interview with Andrew Neil on BBC1

[maroonlegions]

As i have previously said this election has cleverly been made out to be about Bretix and Indey2 and not about May and the Selfsrvatives time in office.

 

There cannot be any doubt that as she  continues to  refuse these debates  she is coming across as someone who has no real belief in defending her parties past and present time in government and someone who is actually hiding from awkward questions.  

 

Mays flat refusal to debate live on TV or even  with Corbyn points to a person that is any thing but strong and stable.

 

This audience member on  BBC Question Time nails it big time, with his question as to why she is hiding.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Khs6h23nI

[Maroon Sailor]

FM

 

Sturgeon is struggling in this interview

 

Her voice is cracking and she is desperate for a drink of water

[Sraman]

As i have previously said this election has cleverly been made out to be about Bretix and Indey2 and not about May and the Selfsrvatives time in office.

 

There cannot be any doubt that as she  continues to  refuse these debates  she is coming across as someone who has no real belief in defending her parties past and present time in government and someone who is actually hiding from awkward questions.  

 

Mays flat refusal to debate live on TV or even  with Corbyn points to a person that is any thing but strong and stable.

 

This audience member on  BBC Question Time nails it big time, with his question as to why she is hiding.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Khs6h23nI

 

 

This election is about Brexit as Brexit should happen within the term of the Government that will be elected in this election. It is not about Independence as Independence cannot happen at Westminster as it is a sovereign Scottish Issue.

 

The Independence issue is the red herring as this election has nothing to do with Independence in the slightest.

 

I agree with your opinion on May hiding herself away. It is pretty clear that any politician who has to hide during a GE campaign is worse than shit and anyone voting for a politician who isn't even interested in meeting them let alone listening to them needs their head examined.

[Space Mackerel]

FM

 

Sturgeon is struggling in this interview

 

Her voice is cracking and she is desperate for a drink of water

Nic is doing a fine job v the right wing Tory interviewer.

[Maroon Sailor]

Nic is doing a fine job v the right wing Tory interviewer.

Ha ha ha

 

Feck off !

 

She'll be well done by the time this grilling is finished !

[JamboX2]

Were you complaining when SLAB were in said position over 10 years ago?

10 years ago? Not particularly because I wasn't interested in politics as much as I was when that was the case.

 

But from getting it politics since, I think it's unhealthy in a democracy not to have plurality of opinions, to attack people based on who they vote for and to disengage and end debate by retorts of "xBad".

 

Either way - wasn't healthy with Labour. Isn't with the SNP.

 

In fact, the SNP's dominance of Yes isn't helpful to independence. It's narrow and uncritical of itself. It doesn't offer conservatives or labour or liberal or green or socialist alternatives and visions of the independent state. Just an SNP one. It alienates rather than welcomes different views.

[Space Mackerel]

Ha ha ha

 

Feck off !

 

She'll be well done by the time this grilling is finished !

You were saying?

 

Andrew Neil telt.