Indy Ref Part Deux

[Cruyff Turn]

One side can dictate to the other when shit happens but the other side can't?

 

That just proves what is wrong with nationalism.

That doesn't even make sense.

[Justin Z]

[Jammy T]

That doesn't even make sense.

You had a pop at the prospect of U.K. government telling SNP to bolt.

 

Flip side is SNP are demanding second referendum in 5 years.

 

Why do SNP control the timetable?

 

Independence affects all of the UK.

[Cruyff Turn]

You had a pop at the prospect of U.K. government telling SNP to bolt.

 

Flip side is SNP are demanding second referendum in 5 years.

 

Why do SNP control the timetable?

Because they are elected by the people in this 'Country' in both Parliaments.

[Nucky Thompson]

The UK is not a country before you start with that pish, it is a Kingdom of two Countries who are supposed to be equals.

 

Within the Parliament of the UK the the Scottish electorate voted overwhelmingly for the SNP, they did not elect English Tories.

 

So what is the point in having a UK parliament if the MP's voted for by the electorate to represent them here in Scotland have less say than the MP for Maidenhead?

Two Countries???? Hahahahahaha. Fecking hell. what happened to Wales and Northern Ireland

[dc-jambo]

Good launch today imo, at last something to lift people up.

 

Tories squirming all over the place.

 

No campaign will be a Tory/Ukip/Orange coalition

 

Bring it on 

[aussieh]

You had a pop at the prospect of U.K. government telling SNP to bolt.

 

Flip side is SNP are demanding second referendum in 5 years.

 

Why do SNP control the timetable?

 

Independence affects all of the UK.

Brexit, what happened to the EU membership guarantee. It was the no vote winner. So now the result is null and void, we go again.

[dc-jambo]

The Former UK, surely?

 

[Cruyff Turn]

You had a pop at the prospect of U.K. government telling SNP to bolt.

 

Flip side is SNP are demanding second referendum in 5 years.

 

Why do SNP control the timetable?

 

Independence affects all of the UK.

It does. But it's not up to what England wants. We never elected the MPs there.

 

If England voted in mass for an English national party do you think there'd still be a UK?

 

Clearly not.

[Bindy Badgy]

I voted yes last time but had moved to a no.

 

I do think Brexit gives the Snp justification for a new referendum.

 

I was a no last time and agree that Brexit gives the SNP justification for a new referendum. I do think that any referendum should be delayed until after the Brexit terms are agreed so that the people living in Scotland know exactly what they are voting for.

[aussieh]

Two Countries???? Hahahahahaha. Fecking hell. what happened to Wales and Northern Ireland

Two countries, as he said.

The UK of Scotland and England.

[Nucky Thompson]

I hope Mrs May tells wee jimmy to feck off and respect the vote that happened only 2.5 years ago.

Wee jimmy getting her strings pulled fae fat Alex

[Mikey1874]

If you listen to her speech again, she doesnt mention staying in the EU. Only the free market. That'll do me.

That's a good point

 

The Scotland joining EU thing is uncertain. Spain veto is real thing. Trade etc is different.

[Cade]

The UK will still be called the UK.

 

It'll just be "The United Kindgom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland"

[Cruyff Turn]

Two Countries???? Hahahahahaha. Fecking hell. what happened to Wales and Northern Ireland

The act of union is two countries.

[deesidejambo]

So she should just hide in a corner and wait to see what the imperial masters say?

 

I don't think you've got the just of what actually is going on, seriously.

Yawn. Get back to yer missiles. Seriously.

[aussieh]

The UK will still be called the UK.

 

It'll just be "The United Kindgom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland"

Just call it what they call it now, England.

 

It's now or never Scotland.

[Mikey1874]

Excuse me, but why can't Scotland have free trade with world, post Indy while part of a single market with England and the EU. Or do we just get felt.

 

Oh most people trade in English these days.

No reason at all Scotland cannot be free trade. Could be part of the independence offering say the principles we want to adopt. Its a risk politically but free trade has more than anything brought increase in living standards and arguably peace.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Interesting looking through this thread to get a taste of online opinion.

 

JKB was notoriously one sided at the last referendum supporting the Yes side (about 64% in a poll on the night if I remember correctly). Apart from the usual hardcore who appear on similar threads involving Scottish Independence, it looks like JKB opinion now is less slanted to one side in the argument over Indy2. Maybe someone should set up a Poll in order to get some figures.

 

It is striking how many former Yes voters are now voting NO or considering changing to No.

 

Get the feeling neither side  is really up for this.

[Jammy T]

Brexit, what happened to the EU membership guarantee. It was the no vote winner. So now the result is null and void, we go again.

It was the no vote winner...?

 

was it ****

 

Who was stupid enough to vote on the basis of a guarantee about a vote that was still to happen?

 

If any Scot was they deserve all they get.

[Nucky Thompson]

Interesting looking through this thread to get a taste of online opinion.

 

JKB was notoriously one sided at the last referendum supporting the Yes side (about 64% in a poll on the night if I remember correctly). Apart from the usual hardcore who appear on similar threads involving Scottish Independence, it looks like JKB opinion now is less slanted to one side in the argument over Indy2. Maybe someone should set up a Poll in order to get some figures.

 

It is striking how many former Yes voters are now voting NO or considering changing to No.

 

Get the feeling neither side  is really up for this.

I'm sick to the back teeth of referendums. The last one turned normal people into raving lunatics. If they lose this one, they'll just find another excuse in a couple of years

[Space Mackerel]

Interesting looking through this thread to get a taste of online opinion.

 

 

Get the feeling neither side is really up for this.

Ya think?

The Yes side are well up for it, the Naws know it's game over now.

[westbow]

So the UK will be tariff free, it gets better with ever piece of scaremongering.

How do you know that? If Scotland was independent it would be subject to WTO tariffs until trade agreements or membership of a trading block is agreed.

[Mikey1874]

Agreement with the principle of nukes

There is in practice no other location than Scotland for the UK nukes

 

Its a debate to be had but NATO is not going to see kindly to Scotland forcing them out.

 

Imo Scotland would better getting the rental income from rUK. Will need all the money it can get

[dc-jambo]

Interesting looking through this thread to get a taste of online opinion.

 

JKB was notoriously one sided at the last referendum supporting the Yes side (about 64% in a poll on the night if I remember correctly). Apart from the usual hardcore who appear on similar threads involving Scottish Independence, it looks like JKB opinion now is less slanted to one side in the argument over Indy2. Maybe someone should set up a Poll in order to get some figures.

 

It is striking how many former Yes voters are now voting NO or considering changing to No.

 

Get the feeling neither side  is really up for this.

 

Thanks for adding some humour to the discussion 

[jambo lodge]

Project Fear mk2 starting on Sky News saying Scotland wouldn't be allowed in NATO

 

What an absolute roaster you are. Simple question to NATO would an independent Scotland have to apply to join NATO...yes. How on earth is that project fear.

[Mikey1874]

Complete bollocks. How much of the debt belomgs to Scottish/ex Scottish Banks?

 

Do you want to liquidate and sack several thousand workers at these companies instead?

RBS and HBOS could have brought Scotland to bankruptcy.

[Space Mackerel]

Yawn. Get back to yer missiles. Seriously.

Just think, within an independent Scotland it would be easier for you to teach skiing in the continent. What's not to like about that?

[DanishTam10]

-What is the question going to be?

 

I can't imagine it will be a yes/no answer like it was before. 

I imagine the SNP will be pushing for a question that ends up like a yes/no, they definitely would love all those ?Yes? flags to remain as valid currency. 

 

So is the question going to be something like

- ?The people of Scotland voted to remain in the EU in the referendum of June 2016. Do you agree that Scotland should leave the UK in order it for it to remain as part of the EU?

 

-Agree

 

-Disagree

 

 

If however, Scotland has to re-apply to the EU for membership that wouldn't work. 

 

So it could be

- Scotland voted to remain in the EU. Should Scotland become an independent country in order that it can do so?

 

-Agree

-Disagree. 

 

 

It shows that if there is to be yet another bloody ******* referendum, it won't be the one we had in 2014.

 

Firstly, it will contain a lot more of the EU referendum than most folk seem to be talking about. 

 

Secondly, the "yes" campaign in 2014 are losers. People that want scotland to be outside the uk have realised this. Their arguments were utterly ridiculous- currency, eu membership, pensions, OIL!!! fml. So the smarter ones, know they can't argue from the same position. 

 

Thirdly- This attempt at another referendum has been thrown into a storm. The snp have not been lucky with timing. Holyrood was designed to not have majority govt. 2011 we had one. The snp didn't have a choice, they had to launch their indy ref. 

Now, they have lost their majority, and unlikely to ever regain it. Are they ever going to be in this position again? It doesn't seem likely. So they have been bounced into this referendum.

 

Fourth- they have to make it about the EU. It can't just be, about Scotland "speaking for itself" etc. It has to be linked to the EU.

[Space Mackerel]

What an absolute roaster you are. Simple question to NATO would an independent Scotland have to apply to join NATO...yes. How on earth is that project fear.

And NATO would say naw, there's nothing strategic about your position in the world even though all the Russian nuclear subs pass within a stones throw of our coastline on a weekly basis?

[jambo lodge]

So she should just hide in a corner and wait to see what the imperial masters say?

 

I don't think you've got the just of what actually is going on, seriously.

 

Sky sources saying she has been bounced into this by Alex Salmond and her impatient party members. 

[Mikey1874]

8billion barrels, did you miss that bit?

The oil price may be down, but the oil is still there. Aw naw it's gonnae stop raining when we're independent, the whiskey will be down to 1billion barrels and the wind and waves will be gone, taking all our renewable energy. Now vote no and we'll keep our weather.

You up for fracking then?

 

What do you make of the moratorium and the more likely ban?

[Optimus Prime]

Don't quite get the No mentality. How many times do you need to be slapped in the face and lied to by Westminster. It's like a grand scale form of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Spencer]

Interesting looking through this thread to get a taste of online opinion.

 

JKB was notoriously one sided at the last referendum supporting the Yes side (about 64% in a poll on the night if I remember correctly). Apart from the usual hardcore who appear on similar threads involving Scottish Independence, it looks like JKB opinion now is less slanted to one side in the argument over Indy2. Maybe someone should set up a Poll in order to get some figures.

 

It is striking how many former Yes voters are now voting NO or considering changing to No.

 

Get the feeling neither side is really up for this.

Every chance May will tell Jimmy to GTF or accede to the wishes but within a time frame that isn't to the liking of the wee skank

 

It's a highly devious move at a time when the UK could do with it least. Jimmy seems to forget she has a job to do in a Scotland but her eye is always on the lifetime goal. Performance she presides over on key fundamentals such as Health, Education, Policing and Social care is utterly deplorable. That's always glossed over as being somebody else's fault. She an absolute disgrace

 

The resentment of Brexit line is just pure nationalist opportunism

[jambo lodge]

Good launch today imo, at last something to lift people up.

 

Tories squirming all over the place.

 

No campaign will be a Tory/Ukip/Orange coalition

 

Bring it on 

 

Don't count your chickens. The referendum will be held when the UK government is ready for one and not until.....that's the rules of the game, and by the way Nicola this is not a game.

[Space Mackerel]

Sky sources saying she has been bounced into this by Alex Salmond and her impatient party members.

So what, who cares who advised who, the SNP have played a blinder by announcing it on this day of all days.

 

Maggie May caught napping given the state of her in the interview I saw on Sky. Kezia Dugdale with tears and snotters all over the shop too.

[Don Dan]

No guarantee that there will be a referendum. Long way to go before it's ever given, if ever.

[jambo lodge]

And NATO would say naw, there's nothing strategic about your position in the world even though all the Russian nuclear subs pass within a stones throw of our coastline on a weekly basis?

 

 

Probably because you need something called armed forces and NATO is an alliance of countries who seem to like a nuclear deterrent. Meanwhile the SNP are busy dumping 20,000 jobs at Faslane southwards..

[loveofthegame]

Ya think?

The Yes side are well up for it, the Naws know it's game over now.

 

The Yes side are well up for it because they lost last time. Of course the no's, who won a ONCE IN A GENERATION vote don't want to go through it all again... because we have other things in our lives to keep us occupied.

[GBJambo]

No guarantee that there will be a referendum. Long way to go before it's ever given, if ever.

Yep UK gov have to agree to it. Not sure Mrs May will agree to is as she knows the majority of Scotland oppose another referendum

[deesidejambo]

Just think, within an independent Scotland it would be easier for you to teach skiing in the continent. What's not to like about that?

I'll give you that.

[jambo lodge]

So what, who cares who advised who, the SNP have played a blinder by announcing it on this day of all days.

 

Maggie May caught napping given the state of her in the interview I saw on Sky. Kezia Dugdale with tears and snotters all over the shop too.

 

Haha, the lovely Theresa will make her wait and wait and wait because the real power thankfully resides at Westminster. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

I hope Mrs May tells wee jimmy to feck off and respect the vote that happened only 2.5 years ago.

Wee jimmy getting her strings pulled fae fat Alex

You sound so bitter.

[Space Mackerel]

Probably because you need something called armed forces and NATO is an alliance of countries who seem to like a nuclear deterrent. Meanwhile the SNP are busy dumping 20,000 jobs at Faslane southwards..

Maybe, just maybe, the new Scottish Navy can inherit the place and get 20,000 jobs back.

You do like to suck on the English teet that feeds you.

[AlimOzturk]

No guarantee that there will be a referendum. Long way to go before it's ever given, if ever.

It is actually a very tactically astute move by the SNP/Sturgeon. She knows if the tories oppose the referendum then there could potentially be a massive backlash and the tories once again losing any ground they may have won in Scotland.

 

I wish the older generation would just **** off tbh. They caused Brexit, they voted no and they continue to be right thorns in the side of the generation that actually matter now.

 

By the time we are their age they will have left us **** all, we will all be 100 before we get to retire and all because of past decisions made by dinosaurs

[Cruyff Turn]

Probably because you need something called armed forces and NATO is an alliance of countries who seem to like a nuclear deterrent. Meanwhile the SNP are busy dumping 20,000 jobs at Faslane southwards..

20,000 jobs ?

The armed forces personnel can move to Portsmouth or Southampton, they'd still have their jobs.

[Boab]

No guarantee that there will be a referendum. Long way to go before it's ever given, if ever.

 

 

This.

 

Madness to go ahead with it any time soon...from an SNP viewpoint.

 

Gap would be bigger this time, imo.

[Don Dan]

The anger and animosity has started already. What a horrible place Scotland will be once again thanks to Sturgeon and her entourage.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Don Dan]

It is actually a very tactically astute move by the SNP/Sturgeon. She knows if the tories oppose the referendum then there could potentially be a massive backlash and the tories once again losing any ground they may have won in Scotland.

 

I wish the older generation would just **** off tbh. They caused Brexit, they voted no and they continue to be right thorns in the side of the generation that actually matter now.

 

By the time we are their age they will have left us **** all, we will all be 100 before we get to retire and all because of past decisions made by dinosaurs

I'm in the older generation and I'm gong nowhere any time soon.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mikey1874]

There's a few Nats on here with the attutude 'No is stupid etc we'll win' but mostly a decent debate.

 

With new proposals on the currency etc round the corner we should have plenty to debate.

 

I always think about the Scotland after Independence and as I've said already I'd rather it happened with a better consensus than say 50.1% to 49.9%.

 

If you think sectarian divisions for any of you experiencing them (not many I know) were bad you ain't seen nothing yet. The 'suck it up' mentality above will have a wee backlash to cope with.

 

Be interested in the Yes campaign ideas to manage and drive forward a divided Scotland (maybe similar for Brexit) including coping with the competition next door.

 

But anyway lots to talk about meantime.