Indy Ref Part Deux

[DanishTam10]

Andrew Neill(much complimented on this thread) says that the final Brexit deal will not be  thrashed out till the week before the deadline because that's how Europe works. Everything that comes out up to then will just be posturing. I would call it now or leave it till after the next Holyrood Election when we  will know what Brexit is through experience.

 

Lingering doubt in my mind that this is all part of the UKwide  Remain Campaign to frighten Tory backbenchers into rejecting a hard Brexit.

 

Nicola does not give a hoot about the EU deal. This is about SNP knowing they are at their last chance in the present political cycle. 

[Beast Boy]

"Skank", "ferret", "Jimmy Krankie"

 

'Her fault she gets abuse about miscarriages and threats'

 

Some lovely people on here. Genuinely quite revolting.

[The Don]

Denmark don't.

They have early warning stations. And have also refueled nuclear subs.

 

 

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[Cruyff Turn]

The SNP were looking for any excuse to try for independence. Still there's no guarantee of getting one now and absolutely no chance of it happening if there was another one in the future. The odds are stacked against any credible case for it. The financial case alone close it down. Add in No EU No NATO No Oil No UK trade without tariffs.

No Chance at all.

 

 

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Scottish Independence isn't financially viable?

 

Utterly absurd and offensive mince.

 

Suddenly we'll turn into N Korea overnight.

[Space Mackerel]

The SNP were looking for any excuse to try for independence. Still there's no guarantee of getting one now and absolutely no chance of it happening if there was another one in the future. The odds are stacked against any credible case for it. The financial case alone close it down. Add in No EU No NATO No Oil No UK trade without tariffs.

No Chance at all.

 

 

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Another rent a quote from the Daily Express :/

[AlimOzturk]

"Skank", "ferret", "Jimmy Krankie"

 

'Her fault she gets abuse about miscarriages and threats'

 

Some lovely people on here. Genuinely quite revolting.

Was about to post this.

 

Why insult someones appearance based on their political stance. Honestly, people need to grow up.

[Don Dan]

nice to hear you're hurting!

 

Scotland got to get on with it now

I'm hurting alright and the outcome of an independent Scotland on its own and apart from everyone should worry everyone.

 

 

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[Beast Boy]

Was about to post this.

 

Why insult someones appearance based on their political stance. Honestly, people need to grow up.

You should follow the link to the Twitter account which collects all the vile abuse she gets aimed at her. Genuinely disgusting stuff. Defended on here as bringing it on herself though. Crazy how deranged and unhinged this topic makes some people.

[Don Dan]

Scottish Independence isn't financially viable?

 

Utterly absurd and offensive mince.

 

Suddenly we'll turn into N Korea overnight.

Independence isn't financially viable and I'm glad you're offended. You're scenario is mince just like the White Paper in 2014. Now that was indeed mince.

 

 

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[Nookie Bear]

I wish the older generation would just **** off tbh. They caused Brexit, they voted no and they continue to be right thorns in the side of the generation that actually matter now.

 

By the time we are their age they will have left us **** all, we will all be 100 before we get to retire and all because of past decisions made by dinosaurs

Unbelievable.

 

If you're the generation that matters then heaven help us with that attitude.

[Yoda]

The Euro

 

Spot on.

The EU could be over by the time of the Indy vote.

[Don Dan]

Another rent a quote from the Daily Express :/

All true though. Let's see the written guarantees prior to the referendum (if it happens) Sturgeon was ask that tonight but was unable to offer any. Why am I not surprised. There will be no guarantees.

 

 

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[Boab]

Behind bars for what? If anything he's done the decent thing and allowed people a voice.

 

Not sure why people say on here referendums are shite, at least you get a tiny small say in things in macro policy.

 

But he did gamble, and it's looking like a lose/lose now.

 

 

Don't kid yourself, mate.

 

It was nothing to do with the electorate. He was pandering to a section of his party that pushed him towards it.

 

He should have told them to **** off but he didn't. Spineless twat !

[Yoda]

Another rent a quote from the Daily Express :/

Makes a change from your rent a quotes from the National.

[Space Mackerel]

All true though. Let's see the written guarantees prior to the referendum (if it happens) Sturgeon was ask that tonight but was unable to offer any. Why am I not surprised. There will be no guarantees.

 

 

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Mind they guarantees from the Vow?

[Space Mackerel]

Makes a change from your rent a quotes from the National.

Always thought WGD mixed a bit of humour in with his blogs?

Guess it's not everyone's cup o char.

[Coolio]

No in 2014 but open to persuasion. Definite no this time round. 

 

So bad for Scottish business and everything else as the SNP again will take their eye off the ball to focus on this. 

 

Look forward to seeing the bare facts SNP-style about the challenges independence will give us. I suspect it will be as flawed as the White Paper was

 

Is this the fact based, open and transparent white paper, which allowed the Scottish people ample time to examine, dissect and interpret it. As opposed to the 'vow' written on a fag packet and submitted to the Scottish people by a Tory leader who shat himself, in the final couple of weeks, due to the polls showing a loss was on the cards. 

 

The vow came to nothing and was proved to be worthless, but didn't stop the naive and greedy from using it as their 'excuse' not to vote for the good of the nation as a whole as opposed the their f you Jack I'm alright attitude.

 

The  fag packet was slightly less useless as it apparently held the spliff Cameron lit up after his political career was 'blown' via the Brexit vote.

[Mikey1874]

Best to put me on ignore if I get your blood pressure up [emoji106]

No its cool and I'm calm

 

Coped with much tougher stuff than whether Scotland is independent (against my preferred outcome of people joining to be stronger).

 

Your reasonable answer makes me stick with you for now

[Bazzas right boot]

I was a hard No voter last time out.

 

I'm now a Maybe.

 

The economic argument is still a killer.

In any change there is a risk, fair enough and the economy is hard to answer as it hasn't happened, it's all forecasts and projections.

 

Make it simple, concentrate on do you want Scotland to be independent?

 

All arguments are car crashes, both sides argue the same, yet different pish. There is little progress, one says black, the other says white.

 

If you want Scotland to be independent with the freedom, autonomy and ultimately risk and reward that brings, vote yes.

 

If you don't want Scotland to be independent vote no.

 

 

It's a massive call and there are various variables that imo people over think. In 5, 10, 20 years the world will have changed there will be ups and downs whether in independence or in the union.

 

No way can anyone predict what will and won't happen either way. Thing will change no matter what

 

The only one thing that is definitve, is being Independent small country or what is ultimately being a small region of the UK in political and cultural terms.

 

Decide what you want.

 

My advice to all is focus on the question,not everything else. Everything else will change no matter what happens and is out of our control to a very large extent in the large scale of things.

 

Independence, direction and autonomy can be in our control, forever.

[DanishTam10]

Always thought WGD mixed a bit of humour in with his blogs?

Guess it's not everyone's cup o char.

 

You love the Wee Ginger Dug don't you. You quote him often. 

[Mikey1874]

This 2nd Referendum pretty much lays at the feet of Cameron.

 

However, the division has been there for more than 300 years.

 

Did Orangemen just start marching since the SNP came to power?

 

Did John MacLean raise the red flag in Glasgow and call for a Scottish Republic post SNP?

 

Or did the Devolved parliament? to try and fix a one sided Union which has left the UK even more undemocratic on both sides.

 

This mess wasn't created by the SNP.

 

This is the resulting last reminents of an medievil and out of touch empire falling apart because democracy runs riot through the UK constitution and there is no other way to fix it.

Interesting

[Cruyff Turn]

Independence isn't financially viable and I'm glad you're offended. You're scenario is mince just like the White Paper in 2014. Now that was indeed mince.

 

 

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You can debate the ins and outs of how Scotland could afford it's public services post Independence, but to suggest that it isn't financially viable is utter garbage.

[DanishTam10]

In any change there is a risk, fair enough and the economy is hard to answer as it hasn't happened, it's all forecasts and projections.

 

Make it simple, concentrate on do you want Scotland to be independent?

 

All arguments are car crashes, both sides argue the same, yet different pish. There is little progress, one says black, the other says white.

 

If you want Scotland to be independent with the freedom, autonomy and ultimately risk and reward that brings, vote yes.

 

If you don't want Scotland to be independent vote no.

 

 

It's a massive call and there are various variables that imo people over think. In 5, 10, 20 years the world will have changed there will be ups and downs whether in independence or in the union.

 

No way can anyone predict what will and won't happen either way. Thing will change no matter what

 

The only one thing that is definitve, is being Independent small country or what is ultimately being a small region of the UK in political and cultural terms.

 

Decide what you want.

 

My advice to all is focus on the question,not everything else. Everything else will change no matter what happens and is out of our control to a very large extent in the large scale of things.

 

Independence, direction and autonomy can be in our control, forever.

"Independence, direction and autonomy can be in our control, forever. " 

[Yoda]

"Skank", "ferret", "Jimmy Krankie"

 

'Her fault she gets abuse about miscarriages and threats'

 

Some lovely people on here. Genuinely quite revolting.

Please post the link from kickback to any post(s) that makes a sick joke about her miscarriage and we can all report the person(s) to the mods. Never see any and I think you are making that one up.

 

The Jimmy Krankie comments are something she herself has make jokes about.  They do look very similar.

[Space Mackerel]

You love the Wee Ginger Dug don't you. You quote him often.

I like his prose and narrative, he's quite funny which uses Scottish humour to reinforce his points.

Who's your go to for political commentary, Katie Hopkins?

[DanishTam10]

You can debate the ins and outs of how Scotland could afford it's public services post Independence, but to suggest that it isn't financially viable is utter garbage

 

It isn't garbage to point out that Scotland, currently, has a level of NHS, Police, Fire services, Council Services and military that is here cos we are in the UK. 

 

We would not have that outside the UK. This isn't even news, it is facts that the SNP agree with. 

[Beast Boy]

Please post the link from kickback to any post(s) that makes a sick joke about her miscarriage and we can all report the person(s) to the mods. Never see any and I think you are making that one up.

 

The Jimmy Krankie comments are something she herself has make jokes about. They do look very similar.

The posts on here were excusing the abuse she received, on the basis that she brings it on herself. The good Doctor was one such poster.

[Don Dan]

You can debate the ins and outs of how Scotland could afford it's public services post Independence, but to suggest that it isn't financially viable is utter garbage.

It's utter garbage that Scotland on its own would survive and thrive.

 

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

I like his prose and narrative, he's quite funny which uses Scottish humour to reinforce his points.

Who's your go to for political commentary, Katie Hopkins?

 

No, not Katie Hopkins.

 

What a weird either/or . 

 

I read a lot of peoples stuff. None of your half-assed arsewits from the national though. 

[doctor jambo]

The posts on here were excusing the abuse she received, on the basis that she brings it on herself. The good Doctor was one such poster.

you need to retract that - it's a flat out lie

[Space Mackerel]

It's utter garbage that Scotland on its own would survive and thrive.

 

 

 

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Who is going to take over after the English likes?

Trump? Putin?

[aussieh]

What an absolute roaster you are. Simple question to NATO would an independent Scotland have to apply to join NATO...yes. How on earth is that project fear.

Will rUK?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

It's utter garbage that Scotland on its own would survive and thrive.

 

 

 

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This line has never made sense to me. What's the cut off where a country could "survive" in terms of natural resources, population etc? 10 million? Five million? 28 and some cattle?

[Thunderstruck]

Yous can keep the new aircraft carriers that won't have any aircraft on them till sometime next decade, no use to us. Scrap value man.

 

We'll have 8% of everything else.

Maybe you could look after Scotland's 2/3 of a Red Arrow - if, that is, you can be trusted with sharp implements.

[Cruyff Turn]

It isn't garbage to point out that Scotland, currently, has a level of NHS, Police, Fire services, Council Services and military that is here cos we are in the UK.

 

We would not have that outside the UK. This isn't even news, it is facts that the SNP agree with.

You are quite correct.

 

Scotland would have to reign in public spending at its current levels post Independence.

 

Doesn't mean for one second it isn't financially viable. Nonsense to even suggest it.

 

The UK isn't financially viable either if that is how you look at things.

 

The difference is Scotland doesn't control the Macro economy, the UK does.

 

The economic arguement isn't the most important or the only one, it is constitutional as well, that is what has brought this to the fore.

[pablo]

Is there actually anything new to say about this? Do you want a divorce from the rUK, no matter the consequences? Yes / No.

 

Wish it was next week tbh.

[Space Mackerel]

Maybe you could look after Scotland's 2/3 of a Red Arrow - if, that is, you can be trusted with sharp implements.

Red Arrows are a display team, they have no military capable value unless you count the pilots and groundcrew.

[Cruyff Turn]

It's utter garbage that Scotland on its own would survive and thrive.

 

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Plenty countries like us in the world doing that very thing.

[aussieh]

The SNP were looking for any excuse to try for independence. Still there's no guarantee of getting one now and absolutely no chance of it happening if there was another one in the future. The odds are stacked against any credible case for it. The financial case alone close it down. Add in No EU No NATO No Oil No UK trade without tariffs.

No Chance at all.

 

 

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Why would there be tariffs with rUK if we're not in the EU? Or if we are and they have a non tariff agreement with the EU. Oh and why would NATO not allow us in, considering where we sit on the Map, they'll need permission to enter our waters otherwise.

[Space Mackerel]

This line has never made sense to me. What's the cut off where a country could "survive" in terms of natural resources, population etc? 10 million? Five million? 28 and some cattle?

It's a mind set they've been conditioned to over many years of reading right wing bias junk from the paper laddie.

[Boris]

How?

 

What can the SNP do about it? Absolutely nothing.

 

A few nutters will jump around the streets with their flags and blue faces and then go home.

Stand for Westminster on an independence ticket and win majority of seats and secede from union. Like the plan in the 70s

[Malinga the Swinga]

It is actually a very tactically astute move by the SNP/Sturgeon. She knows if the tories oppose the referendum then there could potentially be a massive backlash and the tories once again losing any ground they may have won in Scotland.

I wish the older generation would just **** off tbh. They caused Brexit, they voted no and they continue to be right thorns in the side of the generation that actually matter now.

By the time we are their age they will have left us **** all, we will all be 100 before we get to retire and all because of past decisions made by dinosaurs

Congratulations, one of the most ignorant posts ever to darken kickback. The generation that fought in WW2 so people like you would have the freedom to pretty much do what you want, and the only thought you have is for them to **** off and die.

 

The generation that matters right now. What generation is that? Is it the generation who demand everything now without worrying about how it will be paid for, the generation who are the most selfish of the last 50 odd years, the generation who want free university places, full employment, free health services and freedom of movement for the peoples they like, but want Scotalnds own elderly just to **** off and die, presumably after they have ensured that people like the poster benefit from their inheritances. Who is going to pay for this utopian land because it sure as anything won't be free, but then again, you most likely expect someone else to pick up the tab.

 

You do realise these people have more oddly experience than you, that they recognise political opportunists when they see them and that they are perfectly entitled to their view. They have seen ****wits like Sturgeon come and go and I doubt they will lose any sleep over an ignorant imbecile like yourself being upset.

 

Oh dear, you may have to work a bit longer before you retire, and you won't have been left anything. How sad, never mind.

[DanishTam10]

It's a mind set they've been conditioned to over many years of reading right wing bias junk from the paper laddie.

 

No. It's a rational expression of our reality. 

[Thunderstruck]

Red Arrows are a display team, they have no military capable value unless you count the pilots and groundcrew.

No kidding! Who knew.

[Malinga the Swinga]

It's a mind set they've been conditioned to over many years of reading right wing bias junk from the paper laddie.

Better than having the mindset of believing what you do. You are the person who accused the US of faking 9/11, killing its own citizens, flying a missile into the Pentagon and laying bodies around the site, all as part of a conspiracy that you know about but everyone else, bar one or two other nutters, cannot see.

 

There are plenty of decent independence supporters and there are good discussions to be had. Unfortunately, you are not one of them.

 

You are an imbecile.

[Boab]

Red Arrows are a display team, they have no military capable value unless you count the pilots and groundcrew.

 

Mmmm....I'm not sure, mate.

 

Pretty easy to adapt a Hawk T1 to a Hawk capable of carrying sidewinders !

 

But, hey, i'm veering way off topic...sorry ! 

[Beast Boy]

you need to retract that - it's a flat out lie

Was it? I thought you replied to a post with a link to that page/story about that page with a comment saying she brings the abuse on herself, much like Neil Lennon. If I've got that wrong then I apologise.

 

If it was someone else, then I'm definitely sorry for accusing you of that. Whoever said that is bang out of order and I'd hate to be tarred with such a brush myself.

 

Genuine apology. Sorry.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

No. It's a rational expression of our reality.

But how? What would prevent Scotland from surviving? Iceland has 300,000 people living on top of a volcano a bawhair from the arctic and yet it survives. Genuinely does not make sense to say Scotland wouldn't. It wouldn't be seamless, in fact it might be difficult for a while, but not even survive as a nation state? Makes no sense to me.

[Don Dan]

Why would there be tariffs with rUK if we're not in the EU? Or if we are and they have a non tariff agreement with the EU. Oh and why would NATO not allow us in, considering where we sit on the Map, they'll need permission to enter our waters otherwise.

You obviously never heard what the NATO spokesman said. I'll leave you to research that one.

 

In or out of the EU you would need to negotiate a Free trade tariff with the U.K. Based on The SNPs rhetoric and demands about a referendum why would the UK want to offer them the hand of friendship in the form of a free trade deals.

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

You obviously never heard what the NATO spokesman said. I'll leave you to research that one.

 

In or out of the EU you would need to negotiate a Free trade tariff with the U.K. Based on The SNPs rhetoric and demands about a referendum why would the UK want to offer them the hand of friendship in the form of a free trade deals.

 

 

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Thought you would be more interested in her claes than her policies?