Indy Ref Part Deux

[aussieh]

Anyway it's a great platform for Ruth Davidson to improve her standing.

She's now lower than corbyn,

Their conference exposed their true colours and it didn't go unnoticed.

 

25% Scottish labour 18% Scottish Conservative for the council election s. 50% The saviours of Scotland.

[Sraman]

"Hugely divisive" or "us and them" if you like. Is that not what UK politics is based on anyway with Labour and the Conservatives? 

 

For those hoping we will get a better level of discussion this time around I can tell you for a fact the UK government won't allow this. They will reduce it to a bun fight again as that's the only way they know. You only have to look at Westminster to see that UK politics is in the gutter with the Conservatives acting like the school bully and the Labour party joining forces with them to beat up the wee guys, the very same wee guys that they purport to represent.

[Jammy T]

She's now lower than corbyn,

Their conference exposed their true colours and it didn't go unnoticed.

 

25% Scottish labour 18% Scottish Conservative for the council election s. 50% The saviours of Scotland.

The SNP has overseen the Tories becoming the second party in a Scotland.

 

That would have been unthinkable 5 years ago.

 

Davidson has a higher approval rating than a Sturgeon.

 

That's how bad the SNP are - they are allowing the Tories to gain a foothold in Scotland.

[loveofthegame]

No matter the side of the fence you stand, she is 100% correct to ask the nation again given the EU circumstances have changed.  The original vote was based on that promise from Westminster (as well as oil from Eck's side of the argument).

 

Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU.

 

I voted NO to both referendums.

 

My NO vote to Brexit was not an invitation for the SNP to use this for their own political gain.

 

Those at the top of the SNP are one policy scum who are driven by the pursuit of one goal only, regardless of how that affects the majority of the people in this country. A minority government voted by a minority of the population who do not have the whole country's interests at heart.

 

YES had no economic substance last time and, if anything, has even less now.

 

I can't think of anything the country needs less than another referendum but if we are to be forced to go through this again I hope we get the same result and bury the SNP once and for all.

[loveofthegame]

Anyway it's a great platform for Ruth Davidson to improve her standing.

 

Hugely this. She must be put in charge of the remain campaign.

[Radio Ga Ga]

Voted No and will vote No again, my son would get a vote this time too and it's also a No from him

[aussieh]

I think you are vastly over-estimating that segment of the vote. The media has made a big play on youngsters who want to study or work abroad in their reporting of that age range. However I don't think that will amount to very many people.

187,000 votes, is all it takes. Better together have nothing left to scaremonger with. The Vow is exposed, EU guarantees gone. Currency a red Herring, pensions decimated. Democracy? don't make me laugh, I might not stop.

[aussieh]

Hugely this. She must be put in charge of the remain campaign.

pretty please, you promise.

[doctor jambo]

She's now lower than corbyn,

Their conference exposed their true colours and it didn't go unnoticed.

 

25% Scottish labour 18% Scottish Conservative for the council election s. 50% The saviours of Scotland.

If you could in any way tell me how the SNP have in any way "saved " Scotland I'd be thrilled.......................

Unless the wanton destruction of our economy is deliberate to provoke an indy vote.......

[Sraman]

The SNP has overseen the Tories becoming the second party in a Scotland.

 

That would have been unthinkable 5 years ago.

 

Davidson has a higher approval rating than a Sturgeon.

 

That's how bad the SNP are - they are allowing the Tories to gain a foothold in Scotland.

 

 

HA HA HA!

 

It's the SNP's fault that Labour are shit

[Ibrahim Tall]

I can understand that point of view but I still don't think any of them would truly understand the gravity of the decision. They might vote purely for EU reasons and not because of ties to the uk etc.

Imagine I voted for Catalonia to remain part of Spain? It's not right imo it's nothing to do with me I can leave if it doesn't work out.

They might do but their as likely to do that as a Scottish yes voter votes 'Yes' because he hates England or a no voter votes 'No' because he has hardon for the Empire. People vote for stupid reason you've just go to hope and trust the majority vote for proper reasons and I'd trust someone with a genuine stake in the country, ie a job, a house, kids born here but with a Polish passport over a champagne Socialist that's never stepped foot in Scotland in years like Sean Connery or a unionist that's lived in South Africa or Australia for 40 years.

[1874robbo]

I was a Yes before but now I'm a No as are most of my family.

How much of the U.K. Debt will we take with us if we get independence?

I can see levels of austerity like in Greece if we break away from ruk with no guarantees of being allowed in to the EU.

[HaymarketJambo]

Hugely this. She must be put in charge of the remain campaign.

 

I really, really hope so.  

 

I also hope that Maggie May - Jeremy Corbyn come up and help the "Yes" Campaign as well.   

[Rab87]

Another vote is the right thing to do, especially when we know the full details of the Brexit deal the UK will be getting. We will be allowed a fully informed choice on where we wish to take our nation as a collective.

[aussieh]

I voted NO to both referendums.

 

My NO vote to Brexit was not an invitation for the SNP to use this for their own political gain.

 

Those at the top of the SNP are one policy scum who are driven by the pursuit of one goal only, regardless of how that affects the majority of the people in this country. A minority government voted by a minority of the population who do not have the whole country's interests at heart.

 

YES had no economic substance last time and, if anything, has even less now.

 

I can't think of anything the country needs less than another referendum but if we are to be forced to go through this again I hope we get the same result and bury the SNP once and for all.

And Brexit, where's the tories economic substance. Half its trade gone but that's ok let's trust them, they've done a grand job so far, debt, banks, war etc...etc... And the SNP are scum for wanting an independent Scotland, unbelievable.

 

Scotland are the only country never to take independence when offered, and not one have gone back. Maybe that's why we'll never amount to much.

 

I8 maybe you should be ashamed. Of yourself.

[luckyBatistuta]

I can understand that point of view but I still don't think any of them would truly understand the gravity of the decision. They might vote purely for EU reasons and not because of ties to the uk etc.

Imagine I voted for Catalonia to remain part of Spain? It's not right imo it's nothing to do with me I can leave if it doesn't work out.

I voted Yes the last time because I thought imo that it was the best decision for Scotland, its people and it's future. I think the Spanish and Polish will pretty much vote Yes unanimously, mainly from a selfish viewpoint, so they can remain in the EU, purely for themselves and their families back in their native countries. I personally don't think it's right either that they should be allowed to vote on this.

[AlphonseCapone]

I voted NO to both referendums.

 

My NO vote to Brexit was not an invitation for the SNP to use this for their own political gain.

 

Those at the top of the SNP are one policy scum who are driven by the pursuit of one goal only, regardless of how that affects the majority of the people in this country. A minority government voted by a minority of the population who do not have the whole country's interests at heart.

 

YES had no economic substance last time and, if anything, has even less now.

 

I can't think of anything the country needs less than another referendum but if we are to be forced to go through this again I hope we get the same result and bury the SNP once and for all.

Didn't take long. Calling people scum. Deary me.

[deesidejambo]

For me anything to get it decided once and for all.

 

But anyone who thinks the losing side whoever they are will just accept and move on is deluded.

 

There is just too much geographical split to handle. Just as Nicola whined Scotland was dragged out of EU against its will, the No voting areas will say the same about the Indy.

 

That said, I think May will say no based on timing issues.

[st1874]

A fascist agenda?

Le Pen a fascist?

 

Extreme leftist slavering. I hope the FN manage a good showing the the first round at least.

 

It's called democracy, something that "anti fascist" fascists have no concept of.

[Pans Jambo]

Independent

Scottish pound

Rid of Nuclear bombs

Stay in the single market

Done.

Its a YES from me.

[Ibrahim Tall]

I voted Yes the last time because I thought imo that it was the best decision for Scotland, its people and it's future. I think the Spanish and Polish will pretty much vote Yes unanimously, mainly from a selfish viewpoint, so they can remain in the EU, purely for themselves and their families back in their native countries. I personally don't think it's right either that they should be allowed to vote on this.

But it was fine the last time around when the majority voted no?

 

The goalposts shouldn't be moved this time around, it'll just lead to more arguments afterwards.

[doctor jambo]

Didn't take long. Calling people scum. Deary me.

Indeed. Another 2 years of divisive campaigning and mud slinging YAY

[Nookie Bear]

What currency will Indy Scotland use?

[deesidejambo]

What currency will Indy Scotland use?

The Groat?

[Doogz]

Didn't take long. Calling people scum. Deary me.

 

Took even less time to start calling people gimps - I really wish people on both sides of the argument could just discuss the politics rather than resorting to insults ...... but we'll probably see the same from the politicians too so I guess I'm expecting too much of an internet forum 

 

this will be interesting can't see better together part duex, leaving Gary tank commander & Maggie mays borders gimp to convince us.

[i8hibsh]

You're not French though, mate.

 

 

Did I say I was?  My agenda has nothing to do with being French.

 

There are only 380 million American's on the planet but everyone seems to have an agenda towards Trump.

[Irufushi]

What currency will Indy Scotland use?

Trade with sheep.

[i8hibsh]

Independent

Scottish pound

Rid of Nuclear bombs

Stay in the single market

Done.

Its a YES from me.

 

 

That simple eh?

 

What about pensions, debt, trade, oil prices etc?

[doctor jambo]

What currency will Indy Scotland use?

Does it matter, because no-one will be using it......

with it being underpinned by the powerhouse Scottish economy of wham bars and tea cakes

[westbow]

And Brexit, where's the tories economic substance. Half its trade gone but that's ok let's trust them, they've done a grand job so far, debt, banks, war etc...etc... And the SNP are scum for wanting an independent Scotland, unbelievable.

 

Scotland are the only country never to take independence when offered, and not one have gone back. Maybe that's why we'll never amount to much.

 

I8 maybe you should be ashamed. Of yourself.

Scotlands trade with EU ?12bn, rest of U.K. ?50bn. I voted remain but economically speaking, free trade with the rest of the UK is obviously a better option now that we have to choose.

Quebec had a referendum and never chose independence.

[Caspian Primrose]

Voted Yes the first time. Would vote No this time if at all.

[AlphonseCapone]

Took even less time to start calling people gimps - I really wish people on both sides of the argument could just discuss the politics rather than resorting to insults ...... but we'll probably see the same from the politicians too so I guess I'm expecting too much of an internet forum

Unfortunately agree.

[Nookie Bear]

Surely the currency question, and how Sturgeon answers it, is essential to their campaign.

 

I have a feeling that a commitment to the euro would be a vote loser.

[doctor jambo]

Surely the currency question, and how Sturgeon answers it, is essential to their campaign.

 

I have a feeling that a commitment to the euro would be a vote loser.

Its their only option though

apart from a new currency that, I suspect would immediately depreciate because of our economy and leave all our pensions and savings totally fecked

[luckyBatistuta]

But it was fine the last time around when the majority voted no?

The goalposts shouldn't be moved this time around, it'll just lead to more arguments afterwards.

But I didn't think it was fine the last time around. I understand what your saying about more arguments, but I think they shouldn't have been alllowed to vote the last time and still think they shouldn't be allowed to vote this time either. As peas said, if I was living over in Spain at the moment, I certainly wouldn't expect, nor want to, vote on something as important as the future of their country, not mine, going forward.

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago#11,642

 

Tzunafish 4,975 Posts 41 Threads

Modphibian

 

"In selfish terms, we should be campaigning for Ulysses to be reinstated across the road as the indyref thread will be sure to generate us some new members."

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you should just take your condescending shite back over the road.

 

Go do some moderating.

What a ****ing ***** that wee weasel is.

[2NaFish]

6 minutes ago#11,642

 

Tzunafish 4,975 Posts 41 Threads

Modphibian

 

"In selfish terms, we should be campaigning for Ulysses to be reinstated across the road as the indyref thread will be sure to generate us some new members."

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you should just take your condescending shite back over the road.

 

Go do some moderating.

 

 

Glad to have you as traffic

[aussieh]

What currency will Indy Scotland use?

Scottish pound or dollar, its only currency, we could have a dual currency with the EURO.

[luckyBatistuta]

Didn't take long. Calling people scum. Deary me.

 

This is why I'm dreading all this again. It was hard to find people that would have a normal discussion without falling out. In fact the best discussion I had throughout the whole thing was with an English woman who was up here on behalf of the No campaign. It caused a divide in my own family ffs. I was also threatened with violence on two occasions from both sides  

Voted Yes the first time. Would vote No this time if at all.

This is pretty much the view of most of the people I've spoken to recently.

[151]

Can't see anything other than a No again tbh, I voted yes last time - this time I don't know how i feel tbh. Sturgeon doesn't seem to understand the concept of democracy.

 

If we voted No last time then I can't see it changing now that we ain't gonna be in the EU either.

[Placid Casual]

Le Pen a fascist?

 

Extreme leftist slavering. I hope the FN manage a good showing the the first round at least.

 

It's called democracy, something that "anti fascist" fascists have no concept of.

 

Extreme leftist I am not

 

I have a lot of friends in France and, rightly or wrongly, they perceive Le Pen to be this ? certainly a dangerous alternative.

[aussieh]

The SNP has overseen the Tories becoming the second party in a Scotland.

 

That would have been unthinkable 5 years ago.

 

Davidson has a higher approval rating than a Sturgeon.

 

That's how bad the SNP are - they are allowing the Tories to gain a foothold in Scotland.

Typical labour, pass the buck. The tories didn't become second, labour crashed to third.

[jambo lodge]

Think Theresa is well within her rights to say a big fat NO until Brexit is over. In the interim it will be up to the opposition parties to hammer home how useless and clueless this Government is in Scotland. Ten years of failing education, NHS in dire straights, huge costs of merger for police force and Fire. Keep accusing the SNP of failing in the day job, the country will waken up sooner rather than later.    

[The Don]

Independent

Scottish pound

Rid of Nuclear bombs

Stay in the single market

Done.

Its a YES from me.

You do realize that Merkel etc want a European force to be armed with Nuclear weapons ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[i8hibsh]

You do realize that Merkel etc want a European force to be armed with Nuclear weapons ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Aye but it's pure no the English an aw that.

 

They are pure Bawbags.

[doctor jambo]

Think Theresa is well within her rights to say a big fat NO until Brexit is over. In the interim it will be up to the opposition parties to hammer home how useless and clueless this Government is in Scotland. Ten years of failing education, NHS in dire straights, huge costs of merger for police force and Fire. Keep accusing the SNP of failing in the day job, the country will waken up sooner rather than later.    

The rumour is that the next thing is the merger of health boards

And its a strong rumour

[parisjambo]

I didn't vote in the last indy referendum, but it would have been a No if I did. 

 

Depending on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, if the Tories sign away my right to live and work in the EU, then it will be a Yes next time as long as there is a commitment that independent Scotland will seek membership as soon as possible. I keep an address and a vote in Scotland and I'd use it in those circumstances.

 

The ind?pendance movement will also need to sort out the currency question. For me that was the biggest liability the last time. Economically there is no reason Scotland can't make a go of it though. As someone who works in the oil industry, I left Aberdeen 15 years ago because the baw was burst for the North Sea even then. Plenty of other countries in the world who don't have oil seem to manage just fine, but they'll have make a strong case for the post-oil era as there still seems plenty of people who think there is still a long-term economic dividend to be had from oil and gas.

[Pans Jambo]

What currency will Indy Scotland use?

No details been released as yet but they will be in the fullness of time.

 

I hope it's our own currency, the Scots Pound or similar.

 

Why not? Every other developed country on the planet can do it. 

 

I doubt very much we will go near the Euro.

[aussieh]

If you could in any way tell me how the SNP have in any way "saved " Scotland I'd be thrilled.......................

Unless the wanton destruction of our economy is deliberate to provoke an indy vote.......

I wish you could tell me how the SNP crashed the economy. Maybe if a government in an independent Scotland with all its power failed or succeeded, we could vote them in and out. SNP crashed the economy, SNP used all the oil, the SNP caused the global crash, the SNP built Trident, the SNP gets money to administrate on Health, Education, justice , aye they're to blame for the 10 years of hardship, right enjoy. Bedroom tax and council tax freezes they really hate Scotland.

 

And Btw, it's an Independence referendum, not a general election.

Time to choose, Tory rule or vote for our own government, whether that be Labour, Libs, Tories or the Greens(who I will probably vote) if labour don't recover. The SNP will be gone or reshaped post Indy and will only man the ship until the first elected government take control. Democracy at last. President Nicola will make it so.

[Pans Jambo]

You do realize that Merkel etc want a European force to be armed with Nuclear weapons ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stored near Glasgow like?

 

We can argue about disarming other nations later but lets get rid of ours first!