Indy Ref Part Deux

[Riddley Walker]

Do I want to live under Tory rule my whole life? No.

 

Do I want the House of Lords? No.

 

Is there a black hole in Scotland's finances? Yes.

 

Do most countries in the world live with a hole in their finances? Yes.

 

Will I vote Yes again? **** yes.

 

Get them to ****. Seriously.

[Nookie Bear]

Oh goody, here come the cut and pastes.

 

Memes next?

[Don Dan]

Thought you would be more interested in her claes than her policies?

 

Not interested in the slightest about her attire. Why would I be interested in what clothes she chooses you'll need to explain that one. Or was that a not so subtle dig at me.

 

 

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[deesidejambo]

But how? What would prevent Scotland from surviving? Iceland has 300,000 people living on top of a volcano a bawhair from the arctic and yet it survives. Genuinely does not make sense to say Scotland wouldn't. It wouldn't be seamless, in fact it might be difficult for a while, but not even survive as a nation state? Makes no sense to me.

Indeed Iceland survives and can support a population of 330,000, even though they suffer from their youth leaving to mainland Europe.

 

But Scotland needs to support a population of 5 million, many of whom relied on shipbuilding steel and mining. These industries are gone and supporting 5 million people in future years will not be straightforward, especially as the financiL services industry will need to compete with rUK

[Malinga the Swinga]

In any change there is a risk, fair enough and the economy is hard to answer as it hasn't happened, it's all forecasts and projections.

Make it simple, concentrate on do you want Scotland to be independent?

All arguments are car crashes, both sides argue the same, yet different pish. There is little progress, one says black, the other says white.

If you want Scotland to be independent with the freedom, autonomy and ultimately risk and reward that brings, vote yes.

If you don't want Scotland to be independent vote no.

It's a massive call and there are various variables that imo people over think. In 5, 10, 20 years the world will have changed there will be ups and downs whether in independence or in the union.

No way can anyone predict what will and won't happen either way. Thing will change no matter what

The only one thing that is definitve, is being Independent small country or what is ultimately being a small region of the UK in political and cultural terms.

Decide what you want.

My advice to all is focus on the question,not everything else. Everything else will change no matter what happens and is out of our control to a very large extent in the large scale of things.

Independence, direction and autonomy can be in our control, forever.

What a crock of shit. I for one don't want to vote with my heart when my children could suffer for years because things may turn out okay. This is far too big a decision to be made with anything less than your brain, and you cannot risk everything on the hope that 'freedom' may work, because equally, if not more than equally, it may not. You are risking our children's future on a wing and a prayer. That is just madness.

 

10 quick questions to answer

 

1) What currency will we use?

 

2) How will we maintain our current levels of spending when the oil price has crashed and shown no signs of ever reaching the level hoped for by the SNP?

 

3) how much debt will we inherit when we separate from England, Wales and Nortehrn Ireland?

 

4) at what rate will we be able to borrow to pay for this deficit?

 

5) how many jobs will we lose from this decision?

 

6) will we have an open border with England?

 

7) will we be allowed into EU?

 

8) what sort of armed forces will we have going forward

 

9) what are we going to do about nuclear bases. If they go, what happens to our security

 

10) NATO, yes or no

[Riddley Walker]

As if every other country in the world is collapsing, c'mon to ****. A yes vote is also the only way Scottish politics can be re-invigorated. Imagine a Scottish Labour party not constrained by Westminster. In fact, the Scottish Conservatives would probably thrive as well and we'd have a bunch of political parties fully committed to Scotland. At the moment we have the SNP and a few other half-arsed collection of arseholes unable to go for the policies they want out of fear of Westminster.

[Beast Boy]

.

[Space Mackerel]

Not interested in the slightest about her attire. Why would I be interested in what clothes she chooses you'll need to explain that one. Or was that a not so subtle dig at me.

 

 

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Only highlighting the nonsense that goes for journalism in the kinds of papers you read.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Stand for Westminster on an independence ticket and win majority of seats and secede from union. Like the plan in the 70s

Secede from the Union? This isn't Fort Sumter, 1861.

 

If Theresa  says no, the SNP can do nothing and she'll probably be applauded quietly by the silent majority in Scotland.

[DanishTam10]

Thought you would be more interested in her claes than her policies?

 

 

Is there anyone or anything , that will stop Space Mackerel from changing the subject, mid conversation?

[Beast Boy]

This was the post I mistakenly thought was posted by you Dr:

 

 

My apologies again. I'd hate to be mistaken for being the author of that.

[AlimOzturk]

Congratulations, one of the most ignorant posts ever to darken kickback. The generation that fought in WW2 so people like you would have the freedom to pretty much do what you want, and the only thought you have is for them to **** off and die.

 

The generation that matters right now. What generation is that? Is it the generation who demand everything now without worrying about how it will be paid for, the generation who are the most selfish of the last 50 odd years, the generation who want free university places, full employment, free health services and freedom of movement for the peoples they like, but want Scotalnds own elderly just to **** off and die, presumably after they have ensured that people like the poster benefit from their inheritances. Who is going to pay for this utopian land because it sure as anything won't be free, but then again, you most likely expect someone else to pick up the tab.

 

You do realise these people have more oddly experience than you, that they recognise political opportunists when they see them and that they are perfectly entitled to their view. They have seen ****wits like Sturgeon come and go and I doubt they will lose any sleep over an ignorant imbecile like yourself being upset.

 

Oh dear, you may have to work a bit longer before you retire, and you won't have been left anything. How sad, never mind.

Never said I wanted them to die. Still got two grand parents alive whome I wouldn't even speak to about politics as their views belong to a different generation.

 

Pulling out the old "they have fought in WW2" line. Aii, because every old person has fought in ww2. I respect ww2 veterans like anyone else. Has **** all to do with my arguments. Young people fight and serve this country right now.

 

Experience? They voted in their numbers for us to leave the EU due to their draconian and out dated opinions.

 

Are they entitled to their vote? Of course, this is a democracy. Just wish they wouldn't however.

[Nookie Bear]

Never said I wanted them to die. Still got two grand parents alive whome I wouldn't even speak to about politics as their views belong to a different generation.

Pulling out the old "they have fought in WW2" line. Aii, because every old person has fought in ww2. I respect ww2 veterans like anyone else. Has **** all to do with my arguments. Young people fight and serve this country right now.

Experience? They voted in their numbers for us to leave the EU due to their draconian and out dated opinions.

Are they entitled to their vote? Of course, this is a democracy. Just wish they wouldn't however.

That response is just as bad.

[jack D and coke]

RBS and HBOS could have brought Scotland to bankruptcy.

No they wouldn't have. Only 7% of their bad debt was related to Scotland and that is all we'd have been on the hook for. All the rest wouldve had to have been bailed by the country in which the debt was borrowed.

[DanishTam10]

But how? What would prevent Scotland from surviving? Iceland has 300,000 people living on top of a volcano a bawhair from the arctic and yet it survives. Genuinely does not make sense to say Scotland wouldn't. It wouldn't be seamless, in fact it might be difficult for a while, but not even survive as a nation state? Makes no sense to me.

 

At least you can see that if scotland were to leave the uk, it would be difficult.

The referendum in 2014 was, imo a red herring. just exiting the uk and the eu, would not make scotland a better, more socialist, higher welfare, richer country. 

It wasn't about "could scotland make it alone". we would have to find a way to make it.

 

this next referendum, is going to be about another thing entirely. 

[Boab]

Never said I wanted them to die. Still got two grand parents alive whome I wouldn't even speak to about politics as their views belong to a different generation.

 

Pulling out the old "they have fought in WW2" line. Aii, because every old person has fought in ww2. I respect ww2 veterans like anyone else. Has **** all to do with my arguments. Young people fight and serve this country right now.

 

Experience? They voted in their numbers for us to leave the EU due to their draconian and out dated opinions.

 

Are they entitled to their vote? Of course, this is a democracy. Just wish they wouldn't however.

 

The UK Prime Minister is a pensioner.....just saying !

[dc-jambo]

Never said I wanted them to die. Still got two grand parents alive whome I wouldn't even speak to about politics as their views belong to a different generation.

 

Pulling out the old "they have fought in WW2" line. Aii, because every old person has fought in ww2. I respect ww2 veterans like anyone else. Has **** all to do with my arguments. Young people fight and serve this country right now.

 

Experience? They voted in their numbers for us to leave the EU due to their draconian and out dated opinions.

 

Are they entitled to their vote? Of course, this is a democracy. Just wish they wouldn't however.

 

You're spot on btw

[Space Mackerel]

The Yoons are off and running. NATO and everything else already.

 

[AlimOzturk]

The UK Prime Minister is a pensioner.....just saying !

Aii and her performance so far has been stellar. And Donald trumps.

[Bazzas right boot]

What a crock of shit. I for one don't want to vote with my heart when my children could suffer for years because things may turn out okay. This is far too big a decision to be made with anything less than your brain, and you cannot risk everything on the hope that 'freedom' may work, because equally, if not more than equally, it may not. You are risking our children's future on a wing and a prayer. That is just madness.

 

10 quick questions to answer

 

1) What currency will we use?

 

Don't care, pound, euro or own currency.

That will be answered.

 

2) How will we maintain our current levels of spending when the oil price has crashed and shown no signs of ever reaching the level hoped for by the SNP?

 

The UK government hhas tripled our national a debt, this is a concern independence or not.

 

3) how much debt will we inherit when we separate from England, Wales and Nortehrn Ireland?

 

See abive

4) at what rate will we be able to borrow to pay for this deficit?

 

See above

5) how many jobs will we lose from this decision?

 

Why can't we create jobs?

 

6) will we have an open border with England?

 

If they leave Europe, unlikely. I'll manage as will the country either way.

7) will we be allowed into EU?

I'd expect an answer on that, bit as a member now, i don't see why that can be arranged

8) what sort of armed forces will we have going forward.

Hopefully one that doesn't get involved in shite it shouldn't, see Canada, new Zealand, Holland, Denmark. Not a problem.

 

9) what are we going to do about nuclear bases. If they go, what happens to our security.

Does every country have a nuclear base....

 

10) NATO, yes or no

I don't know enough on this, but see the EU answer.

 

All these things will change over time independence or not

Some is now.

[Pans Jambo]

No it's not nippy is jumping up and down making demands here and there. May could easily tell her to bolt. Westminster not the Holyrood decides how long a generation is.

If she says no then UDI will be on the table. She cant say no and mean it.

[Nookie Bear]

You're spot on btw

Really?

 

If we are going down that road, then can I suggest the uneducated jake balls that infest our society can also refrain from voting.

 

We could start with anyone who follows celtic?

 

In fairness, your average young weegie has the same lifespan as a respectable Edinburgh pensioner...so it all evens out !

[Malinga the Swinga]

This was the post I mistakenly thought was posted by you Dr:

My apologies again. I'd hate to be mistaken for being the author of that.

Nope, nothing wrong with that. Stand by every word. Didn't say I approved of the threats she received, and I wouldn't condone that sort of attention on anyone. Does she condemn her support when they attack others on social media or are abused in public. No, she says and does nothing. If you can't control one side, then the opposition will almost always come down to that level.

 

Now, whilst you are trying to deflect attention with your fear about what you were or were not called, I would ask that you go back to that thread and see exactly what you did say about that poster and his partner. You made a smart assed comment that you thought made you look big but he took offence and replied in kind. You then get all upset, play the victim and try to stir up bother. If you hadn't acted like a dick in the first place, then nothing would ever have happened.

 

You believe your continual attempts to wind everyone up are funny and intelligent, but you are wrong, you are an insecure little troll who can hand flack out but cannot take it.

[hughesie27]

This is going to be a fun 18-24 months.

[pablo]

If she says no then UDI will be on the table. She cant say no and mean it.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

By the Tories own logic, they would benefit politically and financially from Scotland leaving.

 

Yet they don't support it.

 

Why?

[Beast Boy]

Nope, nothing wrong with that. Stand by every word. Didn't say I approved of the threats she received, and I wouldn't condone that sort of attention on anyone. Does she condemn her support when they attack others on social media or are abused in public. No, she says and does nothing. If you can't control one side, then the opposition will almost always come down to that level.

 

Now, whilst you are trying to deflect attention with your fear about what you were or were not called, I would ask that you go back to that thread and see exactly what you did say about that poster and his partner. You made a smart assed comment that you thought made you look big but he took offence and replied in kind. You then get all upset, play the victim and try to stir up bother. If you hadn't acted like a dick in the first place, then nothing would ever have happened.

 

You believe your continual attempts to wind everyone up are funny and intelligent, but you are wrong, you are an insecure little troll who can hand flack out but cannot take it.

I'm a lot happier with my response to that particular poster than I would be with what you posted there.

 

I was called something very disgusting indeed, and it was not accurate and did not reflect what I said to him.

 

He was out of order, and your post that I highlighted is laying the blame for the comments made about Sturgeon at her feet.

 

Not liking someone or their views is not justification for that sort of shit.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Never said I wanted them to die. Still got two grand parents alive whome I wouldn't even speak to about politics as their views belong to a different generation.

Pulling out the old "they have fought in WW2" line. Aii, because every old person has fought in ww2. I respect ww2 veterans like anyone else. Has **** all to do with my arguments. Young people fight and serve this country right now.

Experience? They voted in their numbers for us to leave the EU due to their draconian and out dated opinions.

Are they entitled to their vote? Of course, this is a democracy. Just wish they wouldn't however.

1) What is the cut off age for when people should not count anymore?

 

2) what about the elderly who own businesses and create jobs? Does their age still count against them?

 

3) those who are young now, will be elderly later. Are they to be ignored in a few years or is this a one off cull?

 

4) are the infirmed(mental health as well as physical) allowed to count or are they to be ignored as well?

 

5) what about the elderly independence supporters? Are they for the ignored pile as well?

 

6) what about those who,are old but that are specialists in their fields? Will scientists, surgeons, physicians be culled?

 

What a lovely society you are painting as your vision. Can't wait for it to be adopted.

[Malinga the Swinga]

I'm a lot happier with my response to that particular poster than I would be with what you posted there.

I was called something very disgusting indeed, and it was not accurate and did not reflect what I said to him.

He was out of order, and your post that I highlighted is laying the blame for the comments made about Sturgeon at her feet.

Not liking someone or their views is not justification for that sort of shit.

min your view it didn't, in his view it did. If you hadn't started it, then nothing happens. Why don't you face up to your part in the whole sorry episode instead of crying like a baby. Both apologise and move on.

[Space Mackerel]

By the Tories own logic, they would benefit politically and financially from Scotland leaving.

 

Yet they don't support it.

 

Why?

I'm still waiting on an answer from them.

[deesidejambo]

If she says no then UDI will be on the table. She cant say no and mean it.

UDI?  That would need support of a majority?  Have a referendum?   

[deesidejambo]

I'm still waiting on an answer from them.

Answered many times but you can't understand it.

[Beast Boy]

min your view it didn't, in his view it did. If you hadn't started it, then nothing happens. Why don't you face up to your part in the whole sorry episode instead of crying like a baby. Both apologise and move on.

No danger. I made a smart arse comment to him. He accused me of being a "rapist". He will get no apology from me.

 

Your post claims Sturgeon attracts vile abuse because she campaigns for Scottish independence. I find it sad that you think she brings it on herself, because that shows you put your political views before decency.

[151]

Just call it what they call it now, England.

 

It's now or never Scotland.

Don't be daft

 

It was now or never last time. There will be a referendum every 3-5 years 'til the Snp get what they want in this "democracy"

[Boab]

This is going to be a fun 18-24 months.

 

Shit....!

 

Two years ?

 

I'm getting out of Dodge  already !

 

Have fun.

 

[Space Mackerel]

Answered many times but you can't understand it.

You have from a personal point of view, what about the real Torys down South?

Why do they want us to stay?

[deesidejambo]

By the Tories own logic, they would benefit politically and financially from Scotland leaving.

 

Yet they don't support it.

 

Why?

Because they are a Unionist Party - its their credo.

 

And the idea of a Union is both parties benefit from it.     Each gives something to the other and each receives.   Scotland for example receives money via the Barnett Formula.     Trade between the two has no tariffs, no border controls  and issues such as defence and fisheries protection are shared.   There are plenty benefits of federalism, as the USA demonstrates.

[manaliveits105]

Who will be the next First Minister after Crankie resigns following another referendumb defeat ?

[deesidejambo]

Who will be the next First Minister after Crankie resigns following another referendumb defeat ?

Mhairi Black

[i8hibsh]

Who will be the next First Minister after Crankie resigns following another referendumb defeat ?

That utter cringe Mairi Black probably. She ticks all the boxes.

[i8hibsh]

Mhairi Black

Bugger you beat me to it.

[Malinga the Swinga]

No danger. I made a smart arse comment to him. He accused me of being a "rapist". He will get no apology from me.

Your post claims Sturgeon attracts vile abuse because she campaigns for Scottish independence. I find it sad that you think she brings it on herself, because that shows you put your political views before decency.

you are half way there. You think it was smart erased, he thought it was offensive and replied in kind, You didn't like it. You started it and should apologise first, but that is up to you.

 

As for Nicola, I clearly stated that she attracted this abuse because she has shown she cares not a jot for anyone who doesn't support her ideals. If she ran a purely positive campaign, and kept her cyber Nats under control, then that may well see a reciprocation from the opposition. She won't though, or at least I don't believe she will. She will be aggressive, she will refuse to countenance any thought she could be wrong and she will encourage her attack dogs to go out and inflict as much damage as they can on her opposition. If there are any complains by them, as happened in last referendum, WHICH YOU LOST, then it will be brushed off as something that was unimportant and just politics. If it happens to pro campaigners, then these same people who brush off their attacks will demand action and claim victimisation. The other side will do exactly the same.

 

It will split the country again at a time when you would have thought she should be fighting to get a deal from Scotland during Brexit negotiations, but that is not important when she believes in one thing above anything else and that is independence at any cost to anyone.

[aussieh]

Better than having the mindset of believing what you do. You are the person who accused the US of faking 9/11, killing its own citizens, flying a missile into the Pentagon and laying bodies around the site, all as part of a conspiracy that you know about but everyone else, bar one or two other nutters, cannot see.

 

There are plenty of decent independence supporters and there are good discussions to be had. Unfortunately, you are not one of them.

 

You are an imbecile.

That was Jake and niblick and ML I think.

[Don Dan]

Only highlighting the nonsense that goes for journalism in the kinds of papers you read.

I read lots of papers. Ranging from Adelaide Now, Daily Monitor, The Scotsman, The Times as well as The Daily Mail (which is generally guff) I don't limit myself to parochial single issue political diatribe.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dc-jambo]

Really?

 

If we are going down that road, then can I suggest the uneducated jake balls that infest our society can also refrain from voting.

 

We could start with anyone who follows celtic?

 

In fairness, your average young weegie has the same lifespan as a respectable Edinburgh pensioner...so it all evens out !

 

haha is funny to hear you getting your excuses in so early

 

also good to have it confirmed that your commitment to democracy is only skin deep 

possibly the main reason you're gonna get a tanking 

[Thunderstruck]

By the Tories own logic, they would benefit politically and financially from Scotland leaving.

 

Yet they don't support it.

 

Why?

Might it be because the last time the people of Scotland were asked the question, they voted in an open and fair referendum to remain as part of the UK and by a convincing majority.

 

As the UK Government, they have to respect that vote.

[Space Mackerel]

Might it be because the last time the people of Scotland were asked the question, they voted in an open and fair referendum to remain as part of the UK and by a convincing majority.

 

As the UK Government, they have to respect that vote.

Fair being a constant stream of fear, negativity and bullshit finished off with a list of promises that never happened.

 

Right you are pal...

[jambo lodge]

It is actually a very tactically astute move by the SNP/Sturgeon. She knows if the tories oppose the referendum then there could potentially be a massive backlash and the tories once again losing any ground they may have won in Scotland.

 

I wish the older generation would just **** off tbh. They caused Brexit, they voted no and they continue to be right thorns in the side of the generation that actually matter now.

 

By the time we are their age they will have left us **** all, we will all be 100 before we get to retire and all because of past decisions made by dinosaurs

 

That is one of the most offensive posts I have ever read on JKB. As part of the older generation who voted Brexit and Voted No in 2014 I would like to suggest that perhaps we have a bit more wisdom than some of the headbangers on here ..............and there are plenty to choose from.

[Nookie Bear]

haha is funny to hear you getting your excuses in so early

 

also good to have it confirmed that your commitment to democracy is only skin deep

possibly the main reason you're gonna get a tanking

What are you wittering about? I was making a point about Alim's age prejudices.

[aussieh]

you are half way there. You think it was smart erased, he thought it was offensive and replied in kind, You didn't like it. You started it and should apologise first, but that is up to you.

 

As for Nicola, I clearly stated that she attracted this abuse because she has shown she cares not a jot for anyone who doesn't support her ideals. If she ran a purely positive campaign, and kept her cyber Nats under control, then that may well see a reciprocation from the opposition. She won't though, or at least I don't believe she will. She will be aggressive, she will refuse to countenance any thought she could be wrong and she will encourage her attack dogs to go out and inflict as much damage as they can on her opposition. If there are any complains by them, as happened in last referendum, WHICH YOU LOST, then it will be brushed off as something that was unimportant and just politics. If it happens to pro campaigners, then these same people who brush off their attacks will demand action and claim victimisation. The other side will do exactly the same.

 

It will split the country again at a time when you would have thought she should be fighting to get a deal from Scotland during Brexit negotiations, but that is not important when she believes in one thing above anything else and that is independence at any cost to anyone.

The best deal for Scotland is independence, she asked them for single market access, they ignored the elected FM, so even after the guaranteed EU membership for a no vote,and she's the baddy who deserves abuse. Aye good one.