Indy Ref Part Deux

[AlimOzturk]

BTW Theresa May might tell Sturgeon to ram Her independence refendum

 

I voted yes and I will do so again but I can't be arsed with a Second referendum. Would rather we just got on with it tbh.

[The Real Maroonblood]

No, If they live and work here they should get to vote.

Yes after a residential period of 5 years.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Folks going on about our deficit....they (Westminster) print money to give to us to make up the deficit. Wots the difference if your creating debt be it U.K. Or Scottish?

[aussieh]

Good luck tying us to the Italian banking system, the Greek and Spanish economies and open immigration

 

If you think England are going to accept an open border with a Scotland that has open EU migration you are sorely mistaken

Ireland? But but they...

 

As for the Italian and Greece gies peace. Oh and you don't have to accept the Euro, just like other countries you say you will but don't state when. Aye we'll take the euro don't you worry wee EU. but it could be the year 5000 AD.

[aussieh]

BTW Theresa May might tell Sturgeon to ram Her independence refendum

 

I voted yes and I will do so again but I can't be arsed with a Second referendum. Would rather we just got on with it tbh.

UDI? I'm in

[aussieh]

The pro UK persuasion to vote no is really compelling reading on here.

Not a sausage other than #snpbad or we're doomed.

[i8hibsh]

The pro UK persuasion to vote no is really compelling reading on here.

Not a sausage other than #snpbad or we're doomed.

 

 

And what is yours aussieh? Illegible English hating drivel as per usual?

[Jammy T]

Folks going on about our deficit....they (Westminster) print money to give to us to make up the deficit. Wots the difference if your creating debt be it U.K. Or Scottish?

Scotland won't have a central bank and won't be able to print money.

[i8hibsh]

Folks going on about our deficit....they (Westminster) print money to give to us to make up the deficit. Wots the difference if your creating debt be it U.K. Or Scottish?

 

 

The SNP money tree will clear it.

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

Yes after a residential period of 5 years.

No, Pay tax and contribute you can vote.

[i8hibsh]

No, Pay tax and contribute you can vote.

 

 

That rules out a huge chunk of Nats then.

[The Real Maroonblood]

No, Pay tax and contribute you can vote.

So if someone is is here say for a few months they get a vote.

Your having a laugh.

[doctor jambo]

The pro UK persuasion to vote no is really compelling reading on here.

Not a sausage other than #snpbad or we're doomed.

OK- how about "I would vote YES if there was a coherent economic strategy that would not see me being taxed to hell and my savings wiped out by a devaluing currency in our free country"

[AlimOzturk]

That rules out a huge chunk of Nats then.

How to make one huge sweeping statement.

 

Like saying all tories are posh twats who shove their cocks into pigs heads.

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

So if someone is is here say for a few months they get a vote.

Your having a laugh.

 

Why not?

 

They live here and chances are they will settle so let them have a vote.

[doctor jambo]

So if someone is is here say for a few months they get a vote.

Your having a laugh.

How about - no vote if no UK passport?

It would at least show commitment to staying here if you vote yes , get yes, it all goes wrong and then they get to feck off to country of origin.......

Whilst we cannot as we have lost our EU and UK passports leaving us stranded

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

That rules out a huge chunk of Nats then.

Aye

[i8hibsh]

How to make one huge sweeping statement.

 

Like saying all tories are posh twats who shove their cocks into pigs heads.

 

You mean they don't!

 

Not really sweeping though tbf Alim.  I would pretty much gaurantee that the majority of Scotland's SJWs and perpetual protestors will vote "Yes".  

[The Don]

?63b imported from England, if they spent as much on us as we do on them it would be ?600b exported to England, but it's not and most of it is repackaged and sold on, as they get it cheap as chips. Not for much longer.

They're Lecky bills are gonnae rocket and they'll buy it too as it'll still be cheaper. Don't forget who feeds this UK, literally. Potato seeds, beef etc... Scotland's terrain will fuel its economy along with the credit rating the little old North sea oil will give us. Oh shit I forgot Scotland can't borrow or run itself, we're the only country in the world who'll just fail, just because.

 

The Euro is plummeting, what's the pound doing if the Euro is plummeting.

 

Seriously these arguments are so flawed I could sit here all night picking of facts not opinions that completely ruin all the points your trying to make. North Sea oil? Your having a laugh eh? Maybe living in OZ you are a bit behind on the news just don't ask Alex for any figures he was only 97% wrong with his predictions and forecasts.

 

Your completely missing the point about trade with England. So bloody what if they make a profit on it that's business, do cash and carry complain when shopkeepers sell what they buy at a profit ? That's business. Deary me I can't believe you actually tried using that as an argument. See for every ? we make for exports to England. We get that ? as part of an EU member country we'll get 70p for every ? we export to England and we'll be limited on how much. So right away we've lost 30% at least of our biggest export.

 

Anyone thinking we can negotiate better with the EU that allows a free trade with England needs locking up for their own safety.

 

I'm not going to even bother with the rest or go into greater detail.

 

I expect you'll be moving back to Scotland in the event of a yes win, since you have so much interest?

 

 

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[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

How about - no vote if no UK passport?

It would at least show commitment to staying here if you vote yes , get yes, it all goes wrong and then they get to feck off to country of origin.......

Whilst we cannot as we have lost our EU and UK passports leaving us stranded

You can hold 2passports you know. Or do they have to renounce your other citizenship?

[Jammy T]

Is North Sea oil not a net debt these days due to a combination of the price of oil and the cost of winding down / decommissioning oil fields?

 

That, believe it or not, is a genuine question

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

How about - no vote if no UK passport?

It would at least show commitment to staying here if you vote yes , get yes, it all goes wrong and then they get to feck off to country of origin.......

Whilst we cannot as we have lost our EU and UK passports leaving us stranded

That would a better option.

Was there a residential period at the last referendum?

[Jammy T]

The shed is an interesting experience....

 

Friends on the Terrace are foes on here and vice versa....

 

I should come here more often.

 

[Pans Jambo]

So you don't care about the nuclear weapons really just as long as they aren't in Scotland. Very self centered attitude very much like the Indy at all cost attitude.

 

It was/is just another stick to wave at the big bad English as an argument for Indy

 

 

 

 

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So you just didnt even bother reading my reply then? just the usual stock Yoon answer. Ask a question, accuse nimbyism then blarf some pish about big bad Scotland beating up on the poor wee English.

 

It's NUCLEAR weapons of mass destruction! The biggest stockpile in EUROPE! And its stored right next to the biggest populated area in Scotland!

 

Of course I want rid of it. Should be stored up the Thames somewhere.

[Pans Jambo]

We export ?50bn to the rest of the U.K. (Not including oil and gas) Compared to just ?12bn in EU and other countries. We leave the U.K. And remain in EU then our trade with the U.K. Will then be subject to EU tariffs and limits just as any other EU country is subject to these restrictions.

 

We'll be hit with a massive multi billion ? bill for leaving the U.K., immediately plunging the country into a massive unsustainable deficit. Remember we don't have anywhere near the oil reserves Salmond promised.

 

Why leave one dictator to be dictated to by another ? That's not independence. Sometimes it's better the devil you know.

 

Do we want an open door policy on immigration? We can't even support the people living in Scotland now how the feck we going to support thousands More arriving? Where will the money come from to support people? For housing? Health, education.

 

We don't even know if we'll be granted EU access, Spain are opposed right away because of the Catalonia issue. Other countries are concerned because they too have their own possible independence issues. Will a deal even if we were accepted by all member countries be a good deal for us ? We'll be accepting what we're told basically, whereas at least the U.K. Being one of the founder EU members was at the top table in terms of deals and negotiations, Scotland will be at the bottom.

 

Nope today's announcement by NS was very opportunistic and could be potentially very damaging to the countries economy. Remember the politicians get their expenses they get paid no matter what the everyday person are the ones that's going to suffer. The Euro is plummeting and instead of working with the U.K. Government t and industry to steady the economy we have a self interested first minister hell bent on Indy at any cost quite happy create more division and uncertainty. Just what we need.

 

Add to that another two years of divisive, heated, bigoted hatred. Some people won't be happy will were another Northern Ireland of the 70's and 80's at the height of the troubles.

 

 

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So we canny go then because we canny afford it? That the argument? Again? Too wee, too poor, canny afford it. Better staying strapped to a Tory government in perpetuity then!

[aussieh]

And what is yours aussieh? Illegible English hating drivel as per usual?

No WM isn't England

 

Says the man with hate in his log in name.

[deesidejambo]

I think independence has a really good chance of happening

 

Just think this is opportunistic and risks putting back the case for independence for 10 years

 

If its another No vote.

 

If its Yes it risks a terribly divided country.

 

Fix education, health, develop business, show Scotland can use tax powers etc positively to improve things.

 

Then down the line get 60% plus closer to a settled consensus for independence especially if Brexit doesn't bring the benefits its supporters want.

 

Why the rush?

The voice of sense from a Nat perspective.   Anyway the dice is rolled and over to Theresa to respond.

[jack D and coke]

How about - no vote if no UK passport?

It would at least show commitment to staying here if you vote yes , get yes, it all goes wrong and then they get to feck off to country of origin.......

Whilst we cannot as we have lost our EU and UK passports leaving us stranded

That's where I'm at. If they get a vote otherwise they should abstain out of respect imo.

[The Mighty Thor]

Interesting choice for Maggie May. Does she agree and hope she wins to shut the SNP up for a generation or foes she say no and risk it all blowing up in her face when the Brexit debacle unfolds.

I think she'll point blank refuse to allow it and then things get interesting.

[aussieh]

Is North Sea oil not a net debt these days due to a combination of the price of oil and the cost of winding down / decommissioning oil fields?

 

That, believe it or not, is a genuine question

 

Clare ridge is the answer.

[The Don]

So we canny go then because we canny afford it? That the argument? Again? Too wee, too poor, canny afford it. Better staying strapped to a Tory government in perpetuity then!

I voted yes last time. I will be voting no next time because I genuinely believe we are better out of the EU. If we had a choice of out of the U.K. And out of the EU that would be my preference but there's no way the SNP will allow that question because they know far to many yes voters voted to leave the EU as well. Jeez even the SNP party are split on the EU question but we're party whipped into voting to remain. John Swinney was on the leave side a while ago. The SNP like the Tories had many Euro sceptics but they have been whipped into line.

 

I'm not of the belief we should have Independence at any cost. If I can be convinced not by public forums or people shouting daft stats but by genuine hard evidence and facts then that could change.

 

I don't believe we can afford it given certain figures given to us before have actually been proven to be false and misleading.

 

 

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[Mikey1874]

Folks going on about our deficit....they (Westminster) print money to give to us to make up the deficit. Wots the difference if your creating debt be it U.K. Or Scottish?

Its a fair point and question

 

Debt has to be a certain level to be able to join EU for example. Figures previously suggested Scotland would need to raise taxes or cut spending to meet that.

[deesidejambo]

Clare ridge is the answer.

Rubbish a usual.

 

The UK oil revenues go forward will be around zero, even with Clair Ridge production forecast in.  It is estimated to produce about .4 billion barrels over its lifetime. The UKCS will produce about 5 billion in future, well short of Ecks 24 billion.    Revenues all depend on the oil price but the latest treasury forecast is not good.

 

SNP have already stated they will not factor in oil revenues next time as there is a high chance they will be zero or even negative.

[frankblack]

I voted yes last time. I will be voting no next time because I genuinely believe we are better out of the EU. If we had a choice of out of the U.K. And out of the EU that would be my preference but there's no way the SNP will allow that question because they know far to many yes voters voted to leave the EU as well. Jeez even the SNP party are split on the EU question but we're party whipped into voting to remain. John Swinney was on the leave side a while ago. The SNP like the Tories had many Euro sceptics but they have been whipped into line.

 

I'm not of the belief we should have Independence at any cost. If I can be convinced not by public forums or people shouting daft stats but by genuine hard evidence and facts then that could change.

 

I don't believe we can afford it given certain figures given to us before have actually been proven to be false and misleading.

 

 

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I'm the same, which was a point I was making earlier in the thread.  Sturgeon has shot herself in the foot over her stance on Brexit.

 

Who is seriously going to vote to join the Euro and end up an economic basket case like Greece?

[Space Mackerel]

You mean they don't!

 

Not really sweeping though tbf Alim. I would pretty much gaurantee that the majority of Scotland's SJWs and perpetual protestors will vote "Yes".

Looks like that wee Yes camp that was parked outside Holyrood has been partly successful.

 

That must really rustle your jimmies now?

[i8hibsh]

Looks like that wee Yes camp that was parked outside Holyrood has been partly successful.

 

That must really rustle your jimmies now?

As a hard working taxpayer I most certainly despise freeloaders yes.

[Mikey1874]

Interesting choice for Maggie May. Does she agree and hope she wins to shut the SNP up for a generation or foes she say no and risk it all blowing up in her face when the Brexit debacle unfolds.

I think she'll point blank refuse to allow it and then things get interesting.

There is a bit of an argument building that the English Tories wouldn't mind Scotland being independent. Then a United Ireland though that is further away.

 

The Englanders have been emboldened by Brexit.

 

May will allow the referendum. Perhaps the timing to be negotiated i.e. after Brexit.

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

As a hard working taxpayer I most certainly despise freeloaders yes.

Including the Royals?

[Spencer]

Fantastic, there's Jimmy Krankie's excuse to not actually govern the country for the next 18 months!

She's a disgrace. Another absolute fanatic. This is a lifetimes work and frankly the Brexit situation is pure opportunism as you'd expect.

 

She'd be best of concentrating on matters of devolved responsibility and try to manage those in an acceptable fashion.

 

The economic argument for Independence is completely incoherent

 

May should learn from the weakness of Cameron on the constitution and tell her to **** off

[westbow]

So Quebec is still a UK member. When exactly were they an independent country or Catalonia for that matter. Scotland were an Independent state with no debt and free trade with Europe until the union where all trade outside the union was banned. Slowly but surely inside the EU this has eroded and with Indy it will be sorted. 64% trade to the UK is not a good thing it's daylight robbery, time they paid the going rate.

You stated "Scotland are the only country never to take independence when offered".

That just isn't true, I gave an example of Quebec.

 

Regarding trade, our natural trading partner is the one with which we have a land border. It's cheaper for transport, we speak the same language and use the same currency. Trading with Europe is a good revenue stream but not comparable.

[Mikey1874]

Rubbish a usual.

 

The UK oil revenues go forward will be around zero, even with Clair Ridge production forecast in. It is estimated to produce about .4 billion barrels over its lifetime. The UKCS will produce about 5 billion in future, well short of Ecks 24 billion. Revenues all depend on the oil price but the latest treasury forecast is not good.

 

SNP have already stated they will not factor in oil revenues next time as there is a high chance they will be zero or even negative.

The SNP would be better post Trump going for coal.

 

Not sure how technology is but must be at least a similar amount of coal still there as oil.

 

And then there is fracking but...

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

You stated "Scotland are the only country never to take independence when offered".

That just isn't true, I gave an example of Quebec.

 

Regarding trade, our natural trading partner is the one with which we have a land border. It's cheaper for transport, we speak the same language and use the same currency. Trading with Europe is a good revenue stream but not comparable.

Quebec is not a country is it?

[The Don]

I'm the same, which was a point I was making earlier in the thread. Sturgeon has shot herself in the foot over her stance on Brexit.

 

Who is seriously going to vote to join the Euro and end up an economic basket case like Greece?

I think so too.

 

It's all very well saying 62% of Scotland voted to remain the in EU BUT the EU referendum turnout was 67% against 85% for the Independence referendum. Out of the 67% turnout many were Yes voters that voted to leave the EU.

 

Some 20% of eligible voters didn't turn out that's a big drop. And no one knows how they would vote.

 

The other gamble is the No voters in that 67% will they feel strongly enough about remaining in the EU that they'll be happy to vote for independence ?

 

Big big gamble considering polls showing support for another another referendum are only 50/50

 

 

 

 

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[i8hibsh]

Including the Royals?

Most of them yes.

[Space Mackerel]

Project Fear mk2 starting on Sky News saying Scotland wouldn't be allowed in NATO

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

Most of them yes.

Which ones do you not hate then?

[The Real Maroonblood]

I think so too.

It's all very well saying 62% of Scotland voted to remain the in EU BUT the EU referendum turnout was 67% against 85% for the Independence referendum. Out of the 67% turnout many were Yes voters that voted to leave the EU.

Some 20% of eligible voters didn't turn out that's a big drop. And no one knows how they would vote.

The other gamble is the No voters in that 67% will they feel strongly enough about remaining in the EU that they'll be happy to vote for independence ?

Big big gamble considering polls showing support for another another referendum are only 50/50

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Fair points.

Sturgeon should wait for a few years to see how things pan out with brexit.

[westbow]

Quebec is not a country is it?

Semantics eh? ISO don't class Scotland as a country in the way France is.

[deesidejambo]

 

Who is seriously going to vote to join the Euro and end up an economic basket case like Greece?

Step forward Dundee and Glasgow!!!

 

Seriously this is a big test of May, not Sturgeon.     Will she tell Nicola to ram it?

[Psychedelicropcircle]

The SNP money tree will clear it.

A tree is a tree be it Westminster or Scottish the fact remains debt is debt but some on here think WM debt good Scotland debt bad.

 

If it's a yes we'll have a central bank simply by creating one.