Cruyff Turn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Dry yer eyes!! Doesn't bother me in the slightest, we'll have one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Doesn't bother me in the slightest, we'll have one anyway. Probably end of 2019 aye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Probably end of 2019 aye We can have one whenever we want to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 We can have one whenever we want to be honest. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 We can have one whenever we want to be honest. If it doesn't bother you when we have one why the name calling and saying TM is a dictator ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Really? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Sensible decision for the Scottish voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Yes. Permission is still required from Westminster as far as I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Well done Theresa - very wise move. SNP now have to run the country properly for 3 years more, plenty of time for them to be well and truly found out. If Brexit is a disaster and we'd be better off indy then I'll vote Yes myself - but not doing it based on Project Fear and hatred of Tories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 If it doesn't bother you when we have one why the name calling and saying TM is a dictator ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk She has no mandate to call the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Permission is still required from Westminster as far as I'm aware. They will probably go ahead with one anyway even although any outcome means absolutely nothing, under U.K. Constitutional law. So they'll just be wasting more money and time instead of doing what they were voted in to do that's govern Scotland Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Maggie May just added another at least another 2% to the indy vote. Crack on hen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 She has no mandate to call the shots. Her party do. There is also no mandate for an indyref. No material change has taken place yet. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Permission is still required from Westminster as far as I'm aware. Holyrood can hold an advisory referendum without the need of Westminster permission . The EU referendum was an advisory one . IE the don't have to accept the result . But if say Yes won that referendum it would be difficult for the Tory party to refuse that as they accepted the English nationalism out of Europe vote . But I think they will come to a compromise date late 2019 or early 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 They will probably go ahead with one anyway even although any outcome means absolutely nothing, under U.K. Constitutional law. So they'll just be wasting more money and time instead of doing what they were voted in to do that's govern Scotland Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Cheers, I didn't know they could still go ahead with one tbh. But a pointless exercise if it means f/all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Maggie May just added another at least another 2% to the indy vote. Crack on hen. Good too you putting a brave face on. Tears and snotters everywhere haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The SNP have been looking for any excuse to hold another referendum since the first minute the last one was lost. Brexit gave them a lifeline and excuse. There is no way the SNP and TM were ever going to agree on negotiations on Brexit, soon as TM compromises on one thing the SNP will find something else to disagree about because it suits this agenda of "Material change" the wording used in their mandate for Holyrood. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Spot on. The nats' best plan would be to wait until support for Independence was consistently 60+% and the referendum outcome was in no doubt. That may yet happen. They will also have to have realistic, sensible and costed economic plans to win over the middle ground. They may well snatch a win by a narrow margin, but that will divide the nation and cause much bitterness, 10 times worse than Brexit has in England. The Scottish Economy currently lags the UK's and would struggle hugely (but survive in some form) in the early years post independence. Taxes would have to be increased, deep spending cuts would be needed and there would be a huge risk of a brain drain. I'm trying to be neutral and objective about the whole thing. There is no doubt that with passing years, Scots are feeling more and more alienated from the London Bubble and feel little in common with it. (as do people in the English Regions albeit to a lesser extent.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 May has said now isn't the right time. Sturgeon hasn't asked to call one at this time either. The idea, as i understand it, is to have one once the Brexit negotiations and outcome is clear. Autumn 2018 is a long way away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Permission is still required from Westminster as far as I'm aware.Not really. We can just have one and if it is a Yes and WM don't recognize it we can declare ourselves Independent. What is she going to do, send in the troops? Nothing the rUK could do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Holyrood can hold an advisory referendum without the need of Westminster permission . The EU referendum was an advisory one . IE the don't have to accept the result . But if say Yes won that referendum it would be difficult for the Tory party to refuse that as they accepted the English nationalism out of Europe vote . But I think they will come to a compromise date late 2019 or early 2020 . Thanks for clearing that up mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Good too you putting a brave face on. Tears and snotters everywhere haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not really, it was her only play. She wasn't going to have it before Brexit and she hasn't said there won't be one. She's just playing for time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Spot on. The nats' best plan would be to wait until support for Independence was consistently 60+% and the referendum outcome was in no doubt. That may yet happen. They will also have to have realistic, sensible and costed economic plans to win over the middle ground. They may well snatch a win by a narrow margin, but that will divide the nation and cause much bitterness, 10 times worse than Brexit has in England. The Scottish Economy currently lags the UK's and would struggle hugely (but survive in some form) in the early years post independence. Taxes would have to be increased, deep spending cuts would be needed and there would be a huge risk of a brain drain. I'm trying to be neutral and objective about the whole thing. There is no doubt that with passing years, Scots are feeling more and more alienated from the London Bubble and feel little in common with it. (as do people in the English Regions albeit to a lesser extent.) Completely agree. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Spot on. The nats' best plan would be to wait until support for Independence was consistently 60+% and the referendum outcome was in no doubt. That may yet happen. They will also have to have realistic, sensible and costed economic plans to win over the middle ground. They may well snatch a win by a narrow margin, but that will divide the nation and cause much bitterness, 10 times worse than Brexit has in England. The Scottish Economy currently lags the UK's and would struggle hugely (but survive in some form) in the early years post independence. Taxes would have to be increased, deep spending cuts would be needed and there would be a huge risk of a brain drain. I'm trying to be neutral and objective about the whole thing. There is no doubt that with passing years, Scots are feeling more and more alienated from the London Bubble and feel little in common with it. (as do people in the English Regions albeit to a lesser extent.) Where to, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Not really. We can just have one and if it is a Yes and WM don't recognize it we can declare ourselves Independent. What is she going to do, send in the troops? Nothing the rUK could do about it. We will just need to wait and see what sturgeon does then I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 We will just need to wait and see what sturgeon does then I supposeShe already said 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Not really, it was her only play. She wasn't going to have it before Brexit and she hasn't said there won't be one. She's just playing for time. It was said at the start of the thread that's the smart play by her. I said myself once Brexit has taken place then my vote could be Yes like it was in the first Indyref. I just do not think it would be fair to have expected the Scottish people to vote on something where we don't know the outcome. The SNP made this about Brexit so they can't change the goal posts. Let's see what happens after Brexit then have a referendum. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambogemz Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 May has said now isn't the right time. Sturgeon hasn't asked to call one at this time either. The idea, as i understand it, is to have one once the Brexit negotiations and outcome is clear. Autumn 2018 is a long way away. If they were going to have one Autumn 2018 then she would have given a sign of some sort that they would allow it. The fact she's more or less dismissed it out of hand for the time being surely puts us back a couple of years at least. In my opinion of course. Glad it's postponed for now. Another 18 months of rabid bullshit and abuse I can do without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 It was said at the start of the thread that's the smart play by her. I said myself once Brexit has taken place then my vote could be Yes like it was in the first Indyref. I just do not think it would be fair to have expected the Scottish people to vote on something where we don't know the outcome. The SNP made this about Brexit so they can't change the goal posts. Let's see what happens after Brexit then have a referendum. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Its the smart play because it was her only play she had available. She had 1 card in her hand and she was forced to put it on the table. Im sure NS was fully expecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 If they were going to have one Autumn 2018 then she would have given a sign of some sort that they would allow it. The fact she's more or less dismissed it out of hand for the time being surely puts us back a couple of years at least. In my opinion of course. Glad it's postponed for now. Another 18 months of rabid bullshit and abuse I can do without. Fair point. Pressure on UK government to deliver Brexit then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Not really. We can just have one and if it is a Yes and WM don't recognize it we can declare ourselves Independent. What is she going to do, send in the troops? Nothing the rUK could do about it. Absolute nonsense. Under UK constitutional law the SNP have to ask permission and that permission has to be granted for any outcome to be acted on. The SNP and Scottish government signed up to this agreement. Dry your eyes there won't be any UDI Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Absolute nonsense. Under UK constitutional law the SNP have to ask permission and that permission has to be granted for any outcome to be acted on. The SNP and Scottish government signed up to this agreement. Dry your eyes there won't be any UDI Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Maggie May has just fully reinforced why Scotland is at the beck and call of Westminster, this decision affects her just as much and gives more ammo to the independence movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I think the opposite. It's going to allow people to make a proper decision based on what they are voting for. I might change my mind by then, I said pages ago if I had to vote now it would be NO based on I don't know outcomes. That could change once we do have it after Brexit Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Your reasons are the exact reason I'd say it's a bad decision, Scotland wouldn't vote "yes" just now. 5/10/15 years maybe/probably but with current uncertainty it's a long shot and voter 'pool' is still the same basically. If she'd given the referendum now and another No vote was returned then Sturgeon was dead politically. By refusing they've been given free propoganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Maggie May just added another at least another 2% to the indy vote. Crack on hen. Spot on. And from a unelected Prime Minister as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambogemz Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Fair point. Pressure on UK government to deliver Brexit then! I think the UK government will grant one when brexit is done . It's a sensible move. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Where to, exactly? Everywhere. Sadly, Scotland has always suffered a brain drain to some degree. Countries such as rUK/ US/Canada/Australia and others will accept take on skilled labour where they have demand. There are thousands of skilled and well educated Scots in all of these countries. If the economy significantly weakens, the rate of outflow will get much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Maggie May has just fully reinforced why Scotland is at the beck and call of Westminster, this decision affects her just as much and gives more ammo to the independence movement. Has she? You've just admitted it was her only play. Or you suggesting this was all calculated by the SNP to back her into a corner so they could undo the will of 55% of Scotland that voted to remain? I see now. So the real dictators and fascists are the SNP thanks for clearing that up. :2thumbs: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The permission is asked of Westminster not the PM ,though clearly it wouldn't get past Westminster without her nod . After Holyrood votes to start referendum negotiations next week and if May makes her not yet a hard no . Then holyrood could go to court to overturn her decision ,international and European law ( we are still in the EU ) could over rule May or not . But I would expect a date further down the road will be accepted after a bit of show boating from each side . And as said earlier Holyrood could hold it's own advisory referendum if it closes . It's going to happen even May knows that ,it's about when ,we are going to have a bit of grandstanding first . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The permission is asked of Westminster not the PM ,though clearly it wouldn't get past Westminster without her nod . After Holyrood votes to start referendum negotiations next week and if May makes her not yet a hard no . Then holyrood could go to court to overturn her decision ,international and European law ( we are still in the EU ) could over rule May . But I would expect a date further down the road will be accepted after a bit of show boating from each side . And as said earlier Holyrood could hold it's own advisory referendum if it closes . It's going to happen even May knows that ,it's about when ,we are going to have a bit of grandstanding first . Basic contract law, the Scottish government signed up to the terms that they must ask and then be granted permission by Westminster. No court would back the SNP on them being allowed to break a contract which they signed up to. That contract being the Edinburgh Agreement. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Everywhere. Sadly, Scotland has always suffered a brain drain to some degree. Countries such as rUK/ US/Canada/Australia and others will accept take on skilled labour where they have demand. There are thousands of skilled and well educated Scots in all of these countries. If the economy significantly weakens, the rate of outflow will get much worse. I'm not so sure of that to be honest, but you may be right. All ifs and buts at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Has she? You've just admitted it was her only play. Or you suggesting this was all calculated by the SNP to back her into a corner so they could undo the will of 55% of Scotland that voted to remain? I see now. So the real dictators and fascists are the SNP thanks for clearing that up. :2thumbs: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk But but but, politics is not a game! It certainly is, always has been, always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 But but but, politics is not a game! It certainly is, always has been, always will be. Thankfully the majority of the country have more than one brain cell and can see right through the childish petulant dummy spitting of the SNP and teeth gnashers. Now away and plan your Indyref 2 you only have at least 2 years to ask for permission again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Thankfully the majority of the country have more than one brain cell and can see right through the childish petulant dummy spitting of the SNP and teeth gnashers. Now away and plan your Indyref 2 you only have at least 2 years to ask for permission again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk A whole 6 months than was previously planned. I can wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 A whole 6 months than was previously planned. I can wait. You'll still have to ask permission again and if granted it will be at least 12 months from there possibly 18months so the timescale is actually up to 4 years from now. Hahahaha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Thankfully the majority of the country have more than one brain cell and can see right through the childish petulant dummy spitting of the SNP and teeth gnashers. Now away and plan your Indyref 2 you only have at least 2 years to ask for permission again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You're an angry man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You'll still have to ask permission again and if granted it will be at least 12 months from there possibly 18months so the timescale is actually up to 4 years from now. Hahahaha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What you on about? We haven't even had the vote in Holyrood to ask for the Section 30 yet. You're getting awfy excitable for a wee statement from Maggie May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You're an angry man Not really I'm pissing myself laughing at the teeth gnashers shouting on MP's resigning and calling for referendums even though they've been refused, and the angry name calling thats started from them. Maybe they'll hold another vigil in George square haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 May has not ruled out a referendum ,all she has said is not yet . You can take from what May has said is that she thinks it would be right for Scotland to have one but further down the road after the Brexit negotiations . Holyrood has not voted or asked for one yet that vote is next week ,after that she will have to decide to put it through Westminster with her blessing or not . The referendum will happen it's just a case of when . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 What you on about? We haven't even had the vote in Holyrood to ask for the Section 30 yet. You're getting awfy excitable for a wee statement from Maggie May. Ok well TM has said no referendum will be granted until Brexit. Brexit could take 2 years, so it's going to be 2 years possibly before the SNP can ask permission for a referendum, if granted it will take time before one can logistically be held maybe 18months maybe more. Not rocket science. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 May has not ruled out a referendum ,all she has said is not yet . You can take from what May has said is that she thinks it would be right for Scotland to have one but further down the road after the Brexit negotiations . Holyrood has not voted or asked for one yet that vote is next week ,after that she will have to decide to put it through Westminster with her blessing or not . The referendum will happen it's just a case of when . Agree with the last sentence. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Alex "Once in a generation" Salmond looks like he's about to explode haha They aren't bothered though haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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