Indy Ref Part Deux

[i8hibsh]

You're a no voter, so that won't happen.

 

I have given up even trying to understand your ramblings.  Fortunately Scotland has more 'workers' than work shy so a "No" vote is likely.

[CollyWolly]

Check this guy out

 

https://vimeo.com/208529700

 

Warning - Racist and sweary content.

[Nookie Bear]

Check this guy outhttps://vimeo.com/208529700Warning - Racist and sweary content.

Chortled my way through that, who is it?

[JyTees]

Glasgow generations obviously

 

Shouldn't that be SNP generations? Pretty sure I heard them going on about once in a generation just a few years ago.

 

Quite possibly exactly what Kezia's alluding to? Appears to have flown over a few tiny minds.

[Boris]

Shouldn't that be SNP generations? Pretty sure I heard them going on about once in a generation just a few years ago.

 

Quite possibly exactly what Kezia's alluding to? Appears to have flown over a few tiny minds.

 

Yes, an attempt at satire from Kez!

[Doogz]

How long for the hard brexit uk economy?

 

This is obviously a huge concern. We'll have no way of knowing how hard a Brexit it's going to be until the negotiations have started - and probably it'll be nearer the end of this process before we have any idea what deals on trade with the EU are likely. We also can't start negotiations with anyone else until after Brexit is complete. So it'll probably be another 2 years before we can even have an educated guess on how the UK economy will be placed. Assuming the referendum goes ahead and independence is secured then I'd assume it'll take the lawyers & politicians another few years to make us independent plus if the SNP's own Economic Advisor is to believed another 10 years of zero growth from that point. If we then look to secure our own trade deals as an independent nation - and possibly more time lost while we try to re-join the EU (or EEA) ..... The short term pain seems to be lasting quite a while. If the First Minister has anyway for us to remain in the EU (or EEA) and avoid all the pain of Brexit then she is probably onto a winner, but if we're going to have to suffer pain of Brexit and then independence over the next 15 to 20 years then I'll take quite a bit of convincing that it's going to be worth it. In theory that should take me up to retirement age, although I expect those goal posts will be moved again, what will my savings & pension be worth then ?

[Sarah O]

Shouldn't that be SNP generations? Pretty sure I heard them going on about once in a generation just a few years ago.

 

Quite possibly exactly what Kezia's alluding to? Appears to have flown over a few tiny minds.

I must admit, I only saw the tweet and didn't twig or get the context.  Curse this tiny mind of mine

 

If that was meant to be a joke  - fair play - Not Bad

[Space Mackerel]

Chortled my way through that, who is it?

?10 days it's i8 [emoji38]

 

 

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[Nookie Bear]

?10 days it's i8 [emoji38]

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I did wonder.

 

Take it he is nobody special, not even a councillor or something?

[Boris]

This is obviously a huge concern. We'll have no way of knowing how hard a Brexit it's going to be until the negotiations have started - and probably it'll be nearer the end of this process before we have any idea what deals on trade with the EU are likely. We also can't start negotiations with anyone else until after Brexit is complete. So it'll probably be another 2 years before we can even have an educated guess on how the UK economy will be placed. Assuming the referendum goes ahead and independence is secured then I'd assume it'll take the lawyers & politicians another few years to make us independent plus if the SNP's own Economic Advisor is to believed another 10 years of zero growth from that point. If we then look to secure our own trade deals as an independent nation - and possibly more time lost while we try to re-join the EU (or EEA) ..... The short term pain seems to be lasting quite a while. If the First Minister has anyway for us to remain in the EU (or EEA) and avoid all the pain of Brexit then she is probably onto a winner, but if we're going to have to suffer pain of Brexit and then independence over the next 15 to 20 years then I'll take quite a bit of convincing that it's going to be worth it. In theory that should take me up to retirement age, although I expect those goal posts will be moved again, what will my savings & pension be worth then ?

 

Fair points, but access to single market may allow the scots economy to pick up quicker than a post brexit uk?

 

All supposition - which horse do you back?

[SwindonJambo]

Bring back the rent and rates, who changed that, oh that's right Maggie and her fecking poll tax and her Scottish Guinea pigs. We!!! Member that.

 

I was actually at the big protest in Trafalger Square in 1990 which was fun and peaceful before the Anarchists took over and turned it violent. There was a group from Finchley Conservatives (Maggie's seat) amongst the protesters.

 

Her use of Scotland as a guinea pig for her more extreme policies such as the Poll Tax ruined her party there.  She actually used to have 20 MPs out of 72 in Scotland back then but knew she could still win elections without them so deemed them expendible. Just shows what a cold, calculating devious old cow she was.

[Space Mackerel]

I did wonder.

 

Take it he is nobody special, not even a councillor or something?

No idea, I haven't watched the video but I get the jist of what it will entail.

Sort of makes you wonder who is spreading this supposed division and hatred.

 

 

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[i8hibsh]

See what gets me is how "nationalism" is seen as a dirty word all over Europe right now but with the SNP it is seen so differently.

[jambo lodge]

This is obviously a huge concern. We'll have no way of knowing how hard a Brexit it's going to be until the negotiations have started - and probably it'll be nearer the end of this process before we have any idea what deals on trade with the EU are likely. We also can't start negotiations with anyone else until after Brexit is complete. So it'll probably be another 2 years before we can even have an educated guess on how the UK economy will be placed. Assuming the referendum goes ahead and independence is secured then I'd assume it'll take the lawyers & politicians another few years to make us independent plus if the SNP's own Economic Advisor is to believed another 10 years of zero growth from that point. If we then look to secure our own trade deals as an independent nation - and possibly more time lost while we try to re-join the EU (or EEA) ..... The short term pain seems to be lasting quite a while. If the First Minister has anyway for us to remain in the EU (or EEA) and avoid all the pain of Brexit then she is probably onto a winner, but if we're going to have to suffer pain of Brexit and then independence over the next 15 to 20 years then I'll take quite a bit of convincing that it's going to be worth it. In theory that should take me up to retirement age, although I expect those goal posts will be moved again, what will my savings & pension be worth then ?

 

Imagine the damage a hard exit from the UK would bring to Scotland.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I was actually at the big protest in Trafalger Square in 1990 which was fun and peaceful before the Anarchists took over and turned it violent. There was a group from Finchley Conservatives (Maggie's seat) amongst the protesters.

 

Her use of Scotland as a guinea pig for her more extreme policies such as the Poll Tax ruined her party there.  She actually used to have 20 MPs out of 72 in Scotland back then but knew she could still win elections without them so deemed them expendible. Just shows what a cold, calculating devious old cow she was.

 

What other "extreme" policies were tested on us first? And while I agree they should not have "tested" the poll tax on Scotland first it was still a fair way of raising tax for local use. Another problem was Scottish homes had been re-rated 2 or maybe 3 times before it came in (by local councils I presume) thus making it less attractive to the English.

[i8hibsh]

That is because it is different here, even you can work that out.

 

 

Not so much to me.  Nationalism is a dirty word and it is NEVER a good thing imo.

[Doogz]

Fair points, but access to single market may allow the scots economy to pick up quicker than a post brexit uk?

 

All supposition - which horse do you back?

 

Currently undecided - we need much more information. How quickly could we get access to the single market ? Does the 10 year figure from the SNPs advisor assume we would have access ? in which case any delay would probably extend this. I'm cynical of all politicians so if they say 10 years of zero growth how bad would it really be ?

^ not expecting anyone here to answer these questions - just hope the politicians discuss these things and give us the information to base our decision on (Assuming we figure out which side is lying the least !)

[The Don]

Fair points, but access to single market may allow the scots economy to pick up quicker than a post brexit uk?

 

All supposition - which horse do you back?

 

We have access to the single market now. If it's so good why are we not making all this money now?

 

Independence will not make our exports suddenly go up. This argument has already been done.

 

What it is guaranteed to to as explained previously is cut our export profits to the rUK because we will then be subject to tariffs and limits.

 

 

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

See what gets me is how "nationalism" is seen as a dirty word all over Europe right now but with the SNP it is seen so differently.

Civic nationalism up here pal. Big big difference from the ones you support in France and Holland.

 

 

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[Boris]

We have access to the single market now. If it's so good why are we not making all this money now?

 

Independence will not make our exports suddenly go up. This argument has already been done.

 

What it is guaranteed to to as explained previously is cut our export profits to the rUK because we will then be subject to tariffs and limits.

 

 

 

 

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But perhaps be open to investment as a bridge to the EU single market?

[Nookie Bear]

No idea, I haven't watched the video but I get the jist of what it will entail.

Sort of makes you wonder who is spreading this supposed division and hatred.

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It's on the Wings website so, in this case, it's Wings spreading it.

 

I wonder why.

[Sarah O]

Not so much to me.  Nationalism is a dirty word and it is NEVER a good thing imo.

British nationalism is ugly, correct.

[i8hibsh]

Civic nationalism up here pal. Big big difference from the ones you support in France and Holland.

 

 

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Woah woah I don't support any political party apart from the Conservatives.  A win in France and Holland for Le Pen and Wilders (no chance now) suit my political agenda as it is a shake up the West needs.  It is a far cry from what you are very clearly insinuating there fella.

[i8hibsh]

British nationalism is ugly, correct.

 

Agreed.

[Space Mackerel]

It's on the Wings website so, in this case, it's Wings spreading it.

 

I wonder why.

Are you going to blame Twitter, Facebook, the Daily Record and even here for spreading it?

 

 

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[aussieh]

PM just won Scotland her independence.

Yesssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nookie Bear]

Are you going to blame Twitter, Facebook, the Daily Record and even here for spreading it?

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The guy is an ignorant fool but why spread it, if only to fire up anti-English sentiment?

 

I could find similar online rants from Scots if I wanted, including some belters aimed at the Irish. Wouldn't fit the "a mans a man" vibe though, would it,

[aussieh]

Thank you Theresa May, you dumb feck.

[aussieh]

The guy is an ignorant fool but why spread it, if only to fire up anti-English sentiment?

 

I could find similar online rants from Scots if I wanted, including some belters aimed at the Irish. Wouldn't fit the "a mans a man" vibe though, would it,

So naive, if you think he's a one off.

[deesidejambo]

Thank you Theresa May, you dumb feck.

Do tell.

[Nookie Bear]

So naive, if you think he's a one off.

I don't think he is at all.

 

So naive if you think there isn't identikit Scots up here with the same attitudes towards the English and Irish.

[Rudolf's Mate]

May basically saying now is not the time to talk about another referendum.

 

Edit: not basically. She's categorically said it's not the time.

 

 

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[i8hibsh]

May basically saying now is not the time to talk about another referendum.

 

 

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Hard to disagree tbh.

[1874robbo]

Thank you Theresa May, you dumb feck.

Really? What a lot of shite you slaver

[The Don]

But perhaps be open to investment as a bridge to the EU single market?

There's nothing stopping that just now. We're still in the EU have been since it's beginning if it's such a world of

Milk and honey why have we not been benefitting from this paradise before now? The rUK has not stopped Scotland exporting or doing business with the EU so for once the big bad Tories can't be held responsible, or "wastemonster" as the teeth gnashers like to call it.

 

As far as the EU debate goes Scotland being independent we will be bottom of the food chain, we need ALL member nations to agree to our entry, Spain is going to be a huge problem the Spanish PM has already stated he would block our request to join. The Italian PM is not overly keen either both countries have their own provinces that want independence and don't want to be seen backing independence for another country when they oppose their own. These are not unworkable and there may be a solution but it certainly would show in our rules and agreement for membership. Other countries are also hesitant.

 

Even if and it's a huge IF we were granted access immediately independence will not mean our exports will soar to the levels required to even even out our spending.

 

Sturgeon today bumping her gums going on about Tory austerity are people really that stupid in thinking austerity will suddenly stop in an independent Scotland? It won't it will be worse at least for a good amount of years. There will be tax hikes and not by the odd couple of pence, there will be massive spending cuts so many perhaps all of the luxuries we have in Scotland at present will stop. Free tuition fees, free prescriptions, free school meals.

 

This is not scaremongering the SNP's own advisors have agreed these are all facts, the figures do not add up Scotland cannot support itself, now how many years are people prepared to live in poverty ? How much are people willing to lose just so we can be independent ? 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, no one can say how long it would take until we can be self reliant and support the current level of spending and benefits we have in this country.

 

It's a huge and very dangerous gamble.

 

People will say but Brexit is a gamble. And I agree of course it is, however together with the rUK we are powerful the UK as a whole is one of the big players on the global stage. Free trade deals can be obtained easier as part of the UK, countries are already lining up to do deals, China, Canada, US, Australia, India, Japan. Brexit could be shit financially but it also has the potential to be very good and I believe the UK as a whole will not suffer as much as we will in an independent Scotland.

 

 

 

 

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[deesidejambo]

Really? What a lot of shite you slaver

 

So presumably she will reject a request if it comes.

 

Then will be interesting to see if SNP continue to work for the Brexit deal or throw the dummy out

[GBJambo]

Strong leadership from Mrs May

[manaliveits105]

Wise decision - gawn yersel Maggie.

[1874robbo]

So presumably she will reject a request if it comes.

 

Then will be interesting to see if SNP continue to work for the Brexit deal or throw the dummy out

They can kick and scream all they want, she's told them to bolt until we see how the land lies after brexit.

I think that's the sensible thing to do.

[The Don]

So presumably she will reject a request if it comes.

 

Then will be interesting to see if SNP continue to work for the Brexit deal or throw the dummy out

She won't reject a request I'd be surprised if she does reject it. However I suspect she will say we can have our referendum after Brexit.

 

Would that not be a better outcome for the people of Scotland? Or are the extremists big feardies that the UK does actually get a good deal and they will lose a referendum ?

 

Make it a fair fight let people vote on something that they know what they are voting for.

 

 

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[The Don]

Just seen May's interview.

 

Well done correct decision.

 

Brace yourselves for the bile and anger now from the knuckle dragging teeth gnashers.

 

 

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[Ibrahim Tall]

Stupid decision by May, she's played into the SNP's hands.

They can now claim she's the one preventing a referendum and going "against democracy" and "ignoring Scotland" given they were voted in with that as a policy. At the same time they'll avoid the risk of a 50:50 referendum.

[frankblack]

Sensible response there from TM.  The Gnats will be seething.

 

[Cruyff Turn]

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/richard-murphy-gers-denier.html?m=1

 

A response.

Kevin Hague is certainly a smart laddie, however arguing GERs figures as a vehement Unionist and Tory as a case why Scotland should not be an Independent Country is pointless.

 

He's right though in the figures he states, it is there in black and white so arguing against it is a pointless exercise also.

 

But there is a lot of things he does not take into account in the arguement for Scottish Independence.

 

Nor does he take into account that a lot of that public spending in Scotland balances out what Scotland gave the UK in Oil in the 70's and 80's.

 

GERs as we know is the statistical figures of Scotland's Spending and Expenditure.

 

It does not take into account Scotland has had no economic powers, control over defence spending or its share of assets as part of the Union.

 

It also doesn't point out the fact that Scotland leaving the Single Market will cost Scotland 12.3 billion, per year in exports and that the share of the cost Scotland would have to pay at the expense of the UK leaving the EU is a further 5.5 billion a year.

 

So in fact Scotland as an Independent Country is no worse off out of the Union whatsoever.

[SwindonJambo]

We have access to the single market now. If it's so good why are we not making all this money now?

 

Independence will not make our exports suddenly go up. This argument has already been done.

 

What it is guaranteed to to as explained previously is cut our export profits to the rUK because we will then be subject to tariffs and limits.

 

 

 

 

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Not to mention currency fluctuations and charges. Our trade with rUK is 4 times what it is with the EU, after 44 years of membership of the latter.  I'll be interested to hear the 2 sides' takes on this particular fact.

[The Don]

Stupid decision by May, she's played into the SNP's hands.

They can now claim she's the one preventing a referendum and going "against democracy" and "ignoring Scotland" given they were voted in with that as a policy. At the same time they'll avoid the risk of a 50:50 referendum.

I think the opposite.

 

It's going to allow people to make a proper decision based on what they are voting for.

 

I might change my mind by then, I said pages ago if I had to vote now it would be NO based on I don't know outcomes. That could change once we do have it after Brexit

 

 

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[frankblack]

Stupid decision by May, she's played into the SNP's hands.

They can now claim she's the one preventing a referendum and going "against democracy" and "ignoring Scotland" given they were voted in with that as a policy. At the same time they'll avoid the risk of a 50:50 referendum.

 

TM has a democratic duty to carry through the Brexit process as her number 1 priority.

 

The SNP want to sabotage the negotiations by forcing government resources to be diluted fighting on Brexit and Indy 2 at the same time.  That would have given us the worst possible deal if the EU saw us as desperate for a quick deal.

 

The SNP have had an Independence Referendum and lost.  Suck it up.

[Cruyff Turn]

TM has a democratic duty to carry through the Brexit process as her number 1 priority.

 

The SNP want to sabotage the negotiations by forcing government resources to be diluted fighting on Brexit and Indy 2 at the same time. That would have given us the worst possible deal if the EU saw us as desperate for a quick deal.

 

The SNP have had an Independence Referendum and lost. Suck it up.

Does she wuff.

 

An unelected Prime Minister with no mandate to Govern in Scotland undermining the Scottish Electorate and Scottish devolution.

 

She's a dictator.

[The Don]

TM has a democratic duty to carry through the Brexit process as her number 1 priority.

 

The SNP want to sabotage the negotiations by forcing government resources to be diluted fighting on Brexit and Indy 2 at the same time. That would have given us the worst possible deal if the EU saw us as desperate for a quick deal.

 

The SNP have had an Independence Referendum and lost. Suck it up.

The SNP have been looking for any excuse to hold another referendum since the first minute the last one was lost. Brexit gave them a lifeline and excuse. There is no way the SNP and TM were ever going to agree on negotiations on Brexit, soon as TM compromises on one thing the SNP will find something else to disagree about because it suits this agenda of "Material change" the wording used in their mandate for Holyrood.

 

 

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[1874robbo]

Does she wuff.

 

An unelected Prime Minister with no mandate to Govern in Scotland undermining the Scottish Electorate and Scottish devolution.

 

She's a dictator.

Dry yer eyes!!