Aberdeen's new stadium...

[Nookie Bear]

19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Aberdeen have said it's cheaper to build a new stadium. And a new stadium can be higher capacity.

 

But I'm not sure that they have ever shared the evidence behind that. 

 

Here's an example of what they have said.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stewart-milne-explains-aberdeen-must-21190673.amp

 

The cheapest option will be to mothball that Main Stand and use the remaining 3 stands 😄

[GinRummy]

31 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Why when you are so poor at comprehension?

What part of Dave Cormack's masterplan to grow the club does having a 16000 seater stadium come under? He seems to think uo new ways to limit the crowd quite a lot. 

[PortyBeach]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

The cheapest option will be to mothball that Main Stand and use the remaining 3 stands 😄

Wouldn’t be a good look for a “Two Star” club though: a condemned structure surrounded by three upgraded stands. They’d never wear it! 😊
Plus, might an ageing, mothballed, stand not ultimately become a safety issue requiring ongoing maintenance costs?

From the club’s (and fans’) point of view I think it’s their loss if prohibitive costs mean they can’t realign on the current footprint.

[Forever Hearts]

@IveSeenTheLight is 16k capacity not about 10k less than what was originally planned? That's a helluva drop if it is. 

 

This isn't a dig by the way. Just a genuine question. 

[IveSeenTheLight]

7 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

@IveSeenTheLight is 16k capacity not about 10k less than what was originally planned? That's a helluva drop if it is. 

 

This isn't a dig by the way. Just a genuine question. 

 

No, the original plan was a 20k stadium, so 4k less

[fabienleclerq]

1 minute ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

No, the original plan was a 20k stadium, so 4k less

What's your actual thoughts on that? It's pretty restrictive if you plan to grow? 

[The Gorgie]

They would be better keeping the big stand behind the goal, that would hold all their ST holders anyway. Demolish the other 3 stands and replace them with the gazebo/tent stands, just like at Hamilton. Problem solved. It's basically a new stadium and would cost them very little.

[IveSeenTheLight]

14 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

What part of Dave Cormack's masterplan to grow the club does having a 16000 seater stadium come under? He seems to think uo new ways to limit the crowd quite a lot. 

 

He's talked about trying to grow season tickets to 15k (bit of a stretch if you ask me).

I guess there should be no issue in having a small away section (not many teams fill out the allocation as it is)

 

Many fans want to maintain a 20k stadium but it isn't needed for now, so if its possible to have a 16k stadium with expansion options it could make it more feasible

[IveSeenTheLight]

2 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

What's your actual thoughts on that? It's pretty restrictive if you plan to grow? 

 

Its a strange one and not one that I have all the info with. They've potentially factored in maximising the actual attendance but also catering for fans to watch remotely.

There are a lot of season ticket holders that have bought their ST's but are not regular attendees for what ever reason, so in essence there is an opportunity to balance the two , maximising attendance on the day but also cater for a revenue stream from remote supporters

[Bazzas right boot]

It's some plan to grow the club when you are knocking off more than a third of your current capacity. 

 

It's almost like they are acknowledging they aren't famous anymore and they'll never be famous again, even in Aberdeen. 

 

They've basically gave up any hope in growing. They've admitted they won't be bigger than hibs or Hearts going forward and gave up growing their fan base in Aberdeen. 

 

I could see the merit in going to 20k, but 16k? 

The some St holders won't make it so walk ups will be OK is a worse plan than even Vlad came out with later on. 

 

They are a hop and a skip away from giving the of fans two stands, in fact they'd Likley already done it if they hadn't limited themselves to 10k- another outstanding commercial strategy from Cormack. 

 

He reminds me of Johnson or Trump - he's just winging it. No real long term plan. 

Owning a club seems to be massaging his ego as well as giving him a vessel  to put his political views forward. 

 

I'd be very concerned if I was a sheep shagger. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

They would be better keeping the big stand behind the goal, that would hold all their ST holders anyway. Demolish the other 3 stands and replace them with the gazebo/tent stands, just like at Hamilton. Problem solved. It's basically a new stadium and would cost them very little.

 

Stewart Milne doesn't get his big pay off for building houses. 

 

Seems that has to happen. He's probably got a cast iron legal agreement. 

[fabienleclerq]

7 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Its a strange one and not one that I have all the info with. They've potentially factored in maximising the actual attendance but also catering for fans to watch remotely.

There are a lot of season ticket holders that have bought their ST's but are not regular attendees for what ever reason, so in essence there is an opportunity to balance the two , maximising attendance on the day but also cater for a revenue stream from remote supporters

 

I'm not sure I follow, how is that maximising anything by having a smaller capacity? People watching remotely will do do regardless. 

[Forever Hearts]

18 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

No, the original plan was a 20k stadium, so 4k less

Ok. I could have swore when the new stadium was first mooted there was talk of a 25k capacity. But I'm obviously wrong. 

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Ok. I could have swore when the new stadium was first mooted there was talk of a 25k capacity. But I'm obviously wrong. 

 

It was originally 30k (according to a BBC news story from...wait for it...2009!!!)

 

It gets scaled down so often that by the time it's completed it will 10k 😄

 

 

[Silverwolf]

Just now, Forever Hearts said:

Ok. I could have swore when the new stadium was first mooted there was talk of a 25k capacity. But I'm obviously wrong. 

You are right. When they first discussed relocating out near the new bypass there were figures mooted up to 30k. Since then they have realised their financial circumstances mean they will have to rethink the whole thing and have shelved the move.
More recently they have been in discussion with the council (as part if the city regeneration deal), and it looks like a new stadium complex with new leisure facilities, next to the beach ballroom, is likely the answer. The council have realised that all the businesses moving out to the bypass will gut the city and are looking to make it attractive for Aberdeen FC to stay in the locality.

 

the upshot is Aberdeen FC get a new stadium without having to foot the total bill, SM gets his land deal, the council get a redeveloped waterfront.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/aberdeen-new-stadium-plans-take-25391301

[Forever Hearts]

3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

It was originally 30k (according to a BBC news story from...wait for it...2009!!!)

 

It gets scaled down so often that by the time it's completed it will 10k 😄

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/aberdeen-plan-to-move-to-30000-seat-stadium-964032.amp

[GinRummy]

24 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

He's talked about trying to grow season tickets to 15k (bit of a stretch if you ask me).

I guess there should be no issue in having a small away section (not many teams fill out the allocation as it is)

 

Many fans want to maintain a 20k stadium but it isn't needed for now, so if its possible to have a 16k stadium with expansion options it could make it more feasible

As long as you are happy. If a Hearts owner came out with the gibberish Cormack has been spraffing I'd be fairly annoyed.  

[Silverwolf]

There some wacky images out there although the most realistic ones are in the link.

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/3585633/new-aberdeen-stadium-on-cards-as-part-of-integrated-masterplan-2/

 

it does go to show the advantages of being a single city team, where the success of the team directly relates to the city and the council will bend over backwards to support it.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

As long as you are happy. If a Hearts owner came out with the gibberish Cormack has been spraffing I'd be fairly annoyed.  

 

I woul dbe more concerned than annoyed.

 

The link Forever hearts posted above is 14 years old and they don't appear to be a single step closer to starting.

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I woul dbe more concerned than annoyed.

 

The link Forever hearts posted above is 14 years old and they don't appear to be a single step closer to starting.

Just had a look at that. Didn't know it was rumbling on for so long.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Just had a look at that. Didn't know it was rumbling on for so long.

 

By the time it's completed Willie Miller will have gone full circle and started talking in coherent sentences again.

[PortyBeach]

11 minutes ago, Silverwolf said:

There some wacky images out there although the most realistic ones are in the link.

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/3585633/new-aberdeen-stadium-on-cards-as-part-of-integrated-masterplan-2/

 

it does go to show the advantages of being a single city team, where the success of the team directly relates to the city and the council will bend over backwards to support it.

Absolutely. Mercer had the right idea!

Looks like Aberdeen FC will be laughing if this proposal comes to pass..

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

By the time it's completed Willie Miller will have gone full circle and started talking in coherent sentences again.

🤣

[Mikey1874]

19 minutes ago, Silverwolf said:

You are right. When they first discussed relocating out near the new bypass there were figures mooted up to 30k. Since then they have realised their financial circumstances mean they will have to rethink the whole thing and have shelved the move.
More recently they have been in discussion with the council (as part if the city regeneration deal), and it looks like a new stadium complex with new leisure facilities, next to the beach ballroom, is likely the answer. The council have realised that all the businesses moving out to the bypass will gut the city and are looking to make it attractive for Aberdeen FC to stay in the locality.

 

the upshot is Aberdeen FC get a new stadium without having to foot the total bill, SM gets his land deal, the council get a redeveloped waterfront.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/aberdeen-new-stadium-plans-take-25391301

 

To be fair to Aberdeen I think 30,000 was mentioned because Scotland were wanting to bid to host the Euros and 30,000 was the required stadium capacity.

 

Would have been some white elephant had it happened. 

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

As long as you are happy. If a Hearts owner came out with the gibberish Cormack has been spraffing I'd be fairly annoyed.  

 

It's a journey. We had the same with Vlad, it started well, things started to go but you still support him while he has benefit of the doubt for the daft stuff. Then, after a while, the balance tips and you realise the owner's a flailing gobshite.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

It's a journey. We had the same with Vlad, it started well, things started to go but you still support him while he has benefit of the doubt for the daft stuff. Then, after a while, the balance tips and you realise the owner's a flailing gobshite.

Correct. Though many people clicked onto Vlad before I did. Were some very good times as well, which so far haven't happened for the sheep under Cormack.

[Silverwolf]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

To be fair to Aberdeen I think 30,000 was mentioned because Scotland were wanting to bid to host the Euros and 30,000 was the required stadium capacity.

 

Would have been some white elephant had it happened. 

Can you imagine! They struggle to get decent gates at the beachfront when they are within walking distance of the majority of their fan base. How many would they lose moving to Kingswells? There is no scalable public transport infrastructure. Everyone would have to go by car!

[John Findlay]

Flatten the current Pittodrie and build there from scratch. Whilst the work is being done, they can groundshare with Cove Rangers. They are roughly getting the same attendances at present😉

[Saint Jambo]

19 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

Absolutely. Mercer had the right idea!

Looks like Aberdeen FC will be laughing if this proposal comes to pass..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59645936

 

The Council proposal still requires the club to pay for the stadium.

"An Aberdeen council committee recommended last month that the club would have to fund the stadium themselves, but Cormack says that does not make building at the beach less appealing.

'We've got to build a stadium at Kingsford on our own anyway and this site was never available to the club,' he said."

 

The BBC story does also help explain why he thinks 16-17k is enough and how he thinks it would work with 15k season ticket holders. You might disagree with the idea that 30% of season ticket holders will return tickets for resale each week if the ST holders gets at least some of the resale value (personally I think 30% is ambitious) but he has clearly thought it through and doesn't believe that 20k stadium is good value for money. I can see his point, especially when you take into account that 15k season ticket holders is a finger in the air wish, not something they have any real path to achieving.

[Silverwolf]

Interesting comment from the council.
 

But of course they would say that for fear of criticism. Nonetheless there will be indirect subsidies and,  I suspect, it will still be substantially cheaper than the Kingswells option. The club will not have to pay for any transport and road infrastructure, parking, land value?, planning gain, general utilities infrastructure.

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

It's some plan to grow the club when you are knocking off more than a third of your current capacity. 

 

It's almost like they are acknowledging they aren't famous anymore and they'll never be famous again, even in Aberdeen. 

 

They've basically gave up any hope in growing. They've admitted they won't be bigger than hibs or Hearts going forward and gave up growing their fan base in Aberdeen. 

 

I could see the merit in going to 20k, but 16k? 

The some St holders won't make it so walk ups will be OK is a worse plan than even Vlad came out with later on. 

 

They are a hop and a skip away from giving the of fans two stands, in fact they'd Likley already done it if they hadn't limited themselves to 10k- another outstanding commercial strategy from Cormack. 

 

He reminds me of Johnson or Trump - he's just winging it. No real long term plan. 

Owning a club seems to be massaging his ego as well as giving him a vessel  to put his political views forward. 

 

I'd be very concerned if I was a sheep shagger. 

 

 

 

 

Your maths is a bit off

 

I see DC's thoughts behind this was: -

Quote

"We think 16,000-17,000 so far is the optimal number. But, if we achieve our goal of 15,000 season ticket holders, 30% don't turn up, that's 10,500 in the stadium. Even if all 15,000 turn up, maybe 1500 walk up and you let 500 away fans in, you've got a great atmosphere.

"It's all about maximising the capital investment."

 

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Your maths is a bit off

 

I see DC's thoughts behind this was: -

 

 

Currently you are about 23k capacity? A capacity of 17k... It's not far of a third, if not that, it's more than a quarter, you are splitting hairs. 

 

 

Aye, planning for 30 % of season tickets not to turn up seems a cracking plan

 

Why not plan to  boost season ticket sales or ensure more can turn up?

 

You are also limiting your away support and your ability to host internationals. 

 

Not too mention the 10k limited nonsense. 

It's turning into a circus, you should be concerned. 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Gizmo]

18 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Your maths is a bit off

 

I see DC's thoughts behind this was: -

 

Your boy is a fecking eejit. His ego and big mouth is inversely proportionate to the paucity of his ambitions. Talks a very different game to the one he plays.  

 

[The Hogfather]

I look forward to the tears and spotters from Codheids should we decide to limit their away ticket allocation to 500 for the rest of time.

[Hackney Hearts]

29 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Currently you are about 23k capacity? A capacity of 17k... It's not far of a third, if not that, it's more than a quarter, you are splitting hairs. 

 

Capacity officially 20,866 tbf.

 

(so 17k would be a reduction of 18.5%)

[Nookie Bear]

"We think 16,000-17,000 so far is the optimal number. But, if we achieve our goal of 15,000 season ticket holders, 30% don't turn up, that's 10,500 in the stadium. Even if all 15,000 turn up, maybe 1500 walk up and you let 500 away fans in, you've got a great atmosphere.

"It's all about maximising the capital investment."

Unworkable.

If all 15k turn up then it's a big game - probably old firm? - but then he's expecting 1500 to walk up on the basis they might get in? What if 3000 turn up? What if 2000 rangers fans turn up to get in because they only have 500 official tickets?

If 10k turn up then it's obviously a diddy opponent so no chance of walk-ups filling that gap.

Sooo...if there is an incentive for ST holders not to go - perhaps a small rebate if they inform the club in advance - and those tickets are not sold, then the club loses money, no? If there is no incentive to inform the club you are not going then you won't do it, and instead will either give your ticket to a mate or just not bother at all.

The whole thing is built on sand.

[GavK1012]

3 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I never hide, I'm pretty always in the background (unless off on holiday) and comment when related

Not wishing to get involved in a debate, but there is no doubt at all, when your results were going pear shaped earlier on this season, your posting was non existent, and only kicks in when you play Hearts or there is an upturn in the Dandies performances!!

[Hearts_fan]

The idea of basing your stadium's capacity on the hope that 30% of your most committed supporters won't want to attend games is absolutely farcical! 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Capacity officially 20,866 tbf.

 

(so 17k would be a reduction of 18.5%)

 

Not too bad then.... 

50% reduction atm tho. 

 

Clowns. 

[Cruyff]

Their invisible stadium is in the middle of nowhere within a City which is in the middle of nowhere. They'll get less fans going to their new ground than they do now. 

[benny]

A team that could die unless the missing fans rally round.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Its a strange one and not one that I have all the info with. They've potentially factored in maximising the actual attendance but also catering for fans to watch remotely.

There are a lot of season ticket holders that have bought their ST's but are not regular attendees for what ever reason, so in essence there is an opportunity to balance the two , maximising attendance on the day but also cater for a revenue stream from remote supporters

 

Curious as I've not dug into the plans—does the 16k stadium include any provision for expansion in the future should attendances rise?

 

Also, given the choice between Kingsford and the beach site, do you have a preference? You've defended the Kingsford site on here before. It always seemed silly to me as there was underused land near Pittodrie, and now it seems that the council has noticed the same thing. The beach site seems far better when looking at a map but I don't know Aberdeen at all.

 

So long as there's room to expand in the future, the smaller site doesn't seem a terrible idea to me. I wonder of the board are thinking about the coming decline of the oil industry and that the club may be unlikely to see attendances grow in the near future.

[j1964m]

Just been passed can seat 9,999 no covid tests required

[Byyy The Light]

As much as it’s fun to laugh at the plight of other clubs, there is quite a big part of me that wants them to get their stadium and improve as a club. Those new plans look pretty decent. 

 

The more the likes of us, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee Utd get their act together the more attractive our game can become for outside investment. 

[sadj]

6 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59645936

 

The Council proposal still requires the club to pay for the stadium.

"An Aberdeen council committee recommended last month that the club would have to fund the stadium themselves, but Cormack says that does not make building at the beach less appealing.

'We've got to build a stadium at Kingsford on our own anyway and this site was never available to the club,' he said."

 

The BBC story does also help explain why he thinks 16-17k is enough and how he thinks it would work with 15k season ticket holders. You might disagree with the idea that 30% of season ticket holders will return tickets for resale each week if the ST holders gets at least some of the resale value (personally I think 30% is ambitious) but he has clearly thought it through and doesn't believe that 20k stadium is good value for money. I can see his point, especially when you take into account that 15k season ticket holders is a finger in the air wish, not something they have any real path to achieving.

Is 15k not about 175% of what they get when they are really flying? 😑

[kirkierobroy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59645936

 

All the figures they're now clutching at are a complete reversal of the shooting for the moon they talked about when they were planning the Bypassdrome. It's as if they know they were talking mince and even if they build their new stadium somewhere sensible they now accept they can't attract anything like the numbers they want.

 

They may have to downscale even further should they start getting humped in Aberdeen Derbies once Cove Rangers claw their way up.

[FarmerTweedy]

9 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

By the time it's completed Willie Miller will have gone full circle and started talking in coherent sentences again.

What do you mean 'again'?

[FarmerTweedy]

9 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Flatten the current Pittodrie and build there from scratch. Whilst the work is being done, they can groundshare with Cove Rangers. They are roughly getting the same attendances at present😉

Just stopping after the bit in bold would be best for everyone, really! 

[Spellczech]

8 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Your maths is a bit off

 

I see DC's thoughts behind this was: -

 

I think a single row of seats all the way round with a nice wee windbreak at the back - only stadium in UK where everyone has a front-row seat. Sod away fans. By limiting supply Aberdeen could get a price increase away every single year! Braw

[Guest]

Given they still chugg themselves over Gothenberg, maybe a wee trip to IKEA would do the trick ?

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jonkel Hoon